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Why, why, why?
From time to time I find it necessary to reflect on where we have been, what we have accomplished, and where we are going. In the middle of all of the chaos it is easy to lose sight of our purpose. Everything we do we do for a reason, but if we are not careful short term 'reasons' can cause us to take actions that are not in line with our big picture reasons.
Crytpocurrency was originally created out of a desire to break-free from the slavery created by the combination of fiat money and a legal system that outlawed private solutions such as (egold and liberty dollar). This product found a market among a small segment of the population and they have taken the concept of Bitcoin and created a speculative bubble. This speculative bubble in turn has attracted people with *different reasons* for being interested in cryptocurrency, the short term gold rush.
BitShares was originally created out of a desire to solve a problem that Bitcoin faced (exchange with fiat) under the presumption that the governments would eventually shutdown the exchanges like they did egold and liberty dollar. With each day that passes it seems less and less likely that governments will shut down these exchanges. They are being regulated and given rules to follow that allow them to stay in business.
This means that BitShares original reason for existence (to provide the decentralized exchange) in a world where Bitcoin is being cracked down upon is less and less relevant. Instead we are put in a situation of competing head-to-head with centralized exchanges which are trusted, fast, and legal. In the process of attempting to attract "exchange users" who are ultimately just "speculators" we have lost sight of our original customer: the person who wants freedom from the financial system.
My mission in life has been to find free market solutions to secure life, liberty, and property. Systems that are so powerful and effective that they can render governments irrelevant. This is something that I am very passionate about and the reason why I believe most of your are here and loyal to BitShares. If we lose sight of this particular vision we lose our core belief, our mission, our "why". And without a reason why we are adrift chasing profits and losing hope when they don't come quickly enough.
Clearly a system that aims to secure life, liberty, and property must be profitable and provide incentives to attract normal users who could care less about our philosophy. These profits will come eventually, but in the short term we need to ask ourselves what "features" do our core users actually need to secure their liberty? How are regular users currently vulnerable to government interference? How can we produce tools that empower the average Joe to take a stance and make a difference?
Here is how the average BitShares user is vulnerable and is still being victimized by governments:
1. Their activity is too public, easily tracked, and their profits/losses easily reported to the various taxing agencies. In this sense BitShares is contributing to enslavement.
2. Attempting to do commerce with untrusted parties is still difficult (lack of simple escrow and dispute resolution).
3. Lack of tools for building reputations, bonding users, etc
4. Lack of tools to support and encourage civil disobedience and peaceful tax protests
The people interested in this particular market are few and far between (1% or less of the population), but they are passionate and desperate for tools and willing to try anything. These people are willing to pay significant money to gain their freedom.
Unfortunately, if BitShares starts to go in this particular direction it will scare away those who want "mainstream adoption NOW!". Banks will not touch it. Merchants will think twice. Governments will crack down.
BitShares has solved many problems that put it in a unique position among all other crypto projects. It is fast, efficient, clean, and most importantly has the gift of self-governeance and self-funding. This is a very solid foundation upon which to build a larger movement. A foundation that is more robust than any other platform.
The reason why we want to gain exchange users is to accomplish a higher mission than just profit. If we focus on being a payment / exchange solution then we have 100's of competitors many of which are better suited to meet the needs of the masses. If we focus on being a platform for freedom then we have almost no competitors and can start a larger movement.
We all have needs that must be met (food, shelter, clothing for ourselves and family). These needs demand we provide value to the market each day. It is easy to lose sight of our goal in the middle these daily demands. Our objective gets short-sighted, focused on the next dollar rather than the grand vision.
I am all for helping BitShares earn a living from the exchange business, but the exchange business is just a day-job. The exchange is not our reason, our why.
If we lead with our Why, then people will join our movement and we will grow and never die. If we lead with our How (Blockchain/BitShares) and our What (exchange) then we will forever struggle against competitors because users have no deeper reasons to stay with us.
I have shared this link before, but I will share it again:
https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action?language=en
So I ask each of you, Why are you here? Why do you support BitShares? And how does the Fee Debate, Exchange vs Payment Debate, actually support your Reason for being here?
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Thank you for the context. It is important to remember where we are and where we have come from. I agree with you about the WHY being fundamental, but that does not mean we cannot have a sustainable product. It seems like every time we have almost gotten there, the plan has changed a bit and people have been left holding the bag and awaiting the next incarnation. Each incarnation has been far better than what came before and I am thankful for what your team is developing; don't get me wrong. But I'd like to see it come to a usable fruition, especially to thank so many members of the community who have funded or worked hard on these development efforts. If there is a robust trading engine which will attract an exchange business, and if that is simple enough to create from the point we're at now, then please do it. We are most of the way there already.
From there, more possibilities will open up. I think that the WHY will have far more support behind it and that the community will be able to do far more with it if there is a successful product and exchange as its basis. If this thing succeeds, the world will be at your fingertips. It's not just the money; it's the legitimacy and a stepping stone to greater opportunities and open doors, whether these be in the realms of finance, social change, business, politics, or whatever calling each of us has to help solve problems and make a better world.
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Lol that Ted Talk has been around for years... Just because Apple got popular, this guy thought he new the reasons why. There is still a lot up for interpretation. Big wigs at some big companies have tried to emulate this exact Ted Talk. The results have been mixed judging by profits and share price. Also this "why" thing is what all these little venture funded tech companies are using to get funded. Doesn't matter that they have no profits and are losing money daily, they think the "why" will bring customers in... Fact is it won't. Once people start realizing these little companies will never turn a profit but they are valued in the billions, things will change and people are going to lose tons of money. The only "why" being asked will be "why the hell did I buy into that stupid sales pitch".
How this relates to bitshares-
If you take your eye off the exchange ball now, we are legitimately screwed. You might think we can never compete with centralized exchanges, but just look at what happened when the peg was removed from the EUR/CHF... numerous brokers went out of business! That would never ever happen with bitshares!
There is a real fear among forex traders, that eventually the markets will be taken away. That people won't be able to make money from swings of volatility and that speculators are evil. These same forex traders would love to trade and even pay a premium for something that eliminates this risk. BITSHARES IS THAT SOMETHING!!
We are so so close to getting this right. Please don't change the plan before:
1.Trading fees are updated
2.Referral trading fees are possible
3.API for 3rd parties is ready.
I know we love to fuck ourselves over in this community... but all we have to do is stay the course this one time, and you will have all the funds to implement anything you want.
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This means that BitShares original reason for existence (to provide the decentralized exchange) in a world where Bitcoin is being cracked down upon is less and less relevant. Instead we are put in a situation of competing head-to-head with centralized exchanges which are trusted, fast, and legal. .
Have you seen all the headlines the past few days? They are trying to blame the recent terror attacks on bitcoin and encryption...
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We are so so close to getting this right. Please don't change the plan before:
1.Trading fees are updated
2.Referral trading fees are possible
3.API for 3rd parties is ready.
Aren't your 1 and 2 nearly covered? The big one there is #3? But that's not hard one right?
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We are so so close to getting this right. Please don't change the plan before:
1.Trading fees are updated
2.Referral trading fees are possible
3.API for 3rd parties is ready.
Aren't your 1 and 2 nearly covered? The big one there is #3? But that's not hard one right?
#1 is not covered yet.
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If there is a robust trading engine which will attract an exchange business, and if that is simple enough to create from the point we're at now, then please do it. We are most of the way there already.
From there, more possibilities will open up. I think that the WHY will have far more support behind it and that the community will be able to do far more with it if there problems and make a better world.
+5%
I respect all the work you and your team has contributed to the project, however, the constant shifting sands is one of the reasons people have left our ecosystem. Let's get a stable decentralized exchange, great APIs, clean wallet to take advantage of our amazing smartcoins first. Let's have a piece of the project we can show that doesn't take a PhD in economics or computer science to understand.
Once that liquidity starts coming in, all those other points make sense to me. Stay the course.
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I agree with your speech on the part that when BitShares has those core features and has attracted the users that indeed, seek liberty and their right to privacy, those users will never leave BitShares again and will stay loyal. I have no doubt about that. However on the following part
These profits will come eventually, but in the short term we need to ask ourselves what "features" do our core users actually need to secure their liberty?
My thinking is exactly the opposite. What core users need to secure their liberty is profit at the moment. So you can eventually add all the features they need and even create something new and better that is non existent at the moment. With no profit you can't secure the liberty you (and all of us I guess) want so much. The features you want to implement are directly dependent on whether BitShares is profitable or not. No profit means people won't vote for expensive feature implementation.
Maybe the core users would vote for this and stay loyal to the end, but most of the user's won't approve of this if they see the amount of BitShares continually increasing in order to fund non profitable features. That's the problem. People chase money. While you need to think on core users, you need to think on the rest simply because without them BitShares has way less chance of succeeding. I'm not saying they're right or not. I'm just saying you need to take that into consideration. You spook them, they go away, BitShares' chances decrease. You need to consider the masses and the influence they might have on the future of BitShares or not, because without them you won't have the money for the features and liberty you want to achieve. The core users won't pay for all the features for sure, they dont have the money. Masses do. This means - unfortunately - that you depend on them to achieve liberty.
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If there is a robust trading engine which will attract an exchange business, and if that is simple enough to create from the point we're at now, then please do it. We are most of the way there already.
From there, more possibilities will open up. I think that the WHY will have far more support behind it and that the community will be able to do far more with it if there problems and make a better world.
+5%
I respect all the work you and your team has contributed to the project, however, the constant shifting sands is one of the reasons people have left our ecosystem. Let's get a stable decentralized exchange, great APIs, clean wallet to take advantage of our amazing smartcoins first. Let's have a piece of the project we can show that doesn't take a PhD in economics or computer science to understand.
Once that liquidity starts coming in, all those other points make sense to me. Stay the course.
I agree with these points. I'm a little confused at the purpose of this post. The WHY is very important to keep in context, and I don't think anyone's lost sight of that. Most important now is determining the HOW. Bitshares is at a very pivotal point. This project could very well fail and with it extinguish this vision of freedom that you have conceived. To ensure that it doesn't, we need to be concerned about generating greater usership, even more mainstream adoption, because the more people that we have utilizing these tools the more people will begin to exercise their capacity for choice, and the stronger we will collectively be. That means that we have to decide upon the fee schedule, that means we have to provide a competitive exchange experience. All these things are important in order to ultimately reach the WHY. The debates around these aspects of operation and the consensus generated from all coincide with realizing the WHY.
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bitUSD!
Decentralised, price stable, fiat tracking cryptocurrencies is bitshares core product and raison d'etre.
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1. Their activity is too public, easily tracked, and their profits/losses easily reported to the various taxing agencies. In this sense BitShares is contributing to enslavement.
2. Attempting to do commerce with untrusted parties is still difficult (lack of simple escrow and dispute resolution).
3. Lack of tools for building reputations, bonding users, etc
4. Lack of tools to support and encourage civil disobedience and peaceful tax protests
While I agree with liberty, I don't endorse the "tax protest" part. I think the main danger or risk is not going to be from the government, it's going to come from cyber criminals who will find the rich list and then try to extort everyone on it. At that point the target list is going to be obvious, and the net worths for all to see, which puts people in danger not from the government, but from organized crime.
So basically while I agree with implementing privacy I think you have to market it more objectively. In a world without privacy everyone will be a victim to organized crime because anonymous currencies are going to exist regardless of if we want them to or not and privacy has to be used to increase the ability of the property owner to secure ownership of his or her property.
As for tax protesting and the IRS, I don't support tax evasion. It's better to pay the taxes in terms of lowering risks, than to not pay them. I'm talking about it from a risk perspective and not from an ideological or passion perspective. From a risk perspective, there should always be an option available for people who would like to lower their risk in a certain area or way, but if people want to increase their risks then that option should be open to them but it should probably not be directly connected to Bitshares because not every user wants to protest in high risk ways.
On reputation, on financial independence, I pretty much agree, because both lead to liberty, but both don't break any laws or increase the risks associated with using Bitshares. It's part of the job of developers to lower the risks the participants have to take to use Bitshares, so the design has to in my opinion be approached in such a way that the user is always free to accept or limit the amount of legal risk or any other kind of security risk they take.
So if a participant wants to be totally transparent, then they risk being targeted for extortion if they have a net worth too high. No reason to even mention the government because not everyone is more afraid of the taxman than they are of the local warlord, mafia or gang. On the other hand if a participant wants to be made safe just from the local mafia, gang or extortionist, they need to be able to program Bitshares to report to the tax agency and only to the tax agency, but not to anyone else, and only to report what is necessary to reduce their risk of an audit.
Can we have pursue liberty in the most intelligent ways possible? Can we manage risk for participants while also allowing participants to safely protest? Can we allow some participants to take more risks than others? We have to remember not all participants are in the same boat, not all have the same stuff to lose, and while everyone willing to take part in this experiment is taking risks, I do think we should take a risk based approach to determining design of certain features, or let the participants for example select the level of risk.
I'm not against KYC or AML, I'm not against paying taxes, but it's not because I always agree with the actions of my government or that I think the money is always well spent. The reason is because it reduces the risk of government interfering negatively in my life if I go along with the rules rather than if I don't. It's a matter of risk and consequence.
When it comes to privacy, the sort of privacy which lowers your risk with the least consequence is the programmable kind. The more you can configure it, the more you have access control, and access control is ultimately all privacy is. So if you determine the IRS can access your records but no one else, that should be an option, but if you determine not even the IRS can access your records, then you're protesting, and you should be able to make that decision if you're willing to accept the consequences. The point is the consequences faced by the tax protester have to be isolated and separated from the rest of the Bitshares network, in essence compartmentalize the consequences.
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While I agree with liberty, I don't endorse the "tax protest" part. I think the main danger or risk is not going to be from the government, it's going to come from cyber criminals who will find the rich list and then try to extort everyone on it. At that point the target list is going to be obvious, and the net worths for all to see, which puts people in danger not from the government, but from organized crime.
+5%
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While I agree with liberty, I don't endorse the "tax protest" part. I think the main danger or risk is not going to be from the government, it's going to come from cyber criminals who will find the rich list and then try to extort everyone on it. At that point the target list is going to be obvious, and the net worths for all to see, which puts people in danger not from the government, but from organized crime.
+5%
The governments basically exist to manage risks. We need them because they reduce the risk of us getting killed in a terrorist attack, or being a victim of crime. At the same time if we can reduce those risks on our own, we can achieve security without the need for their services most of the time, then you can protest in a way which increases security for the protesters. The point is not to sacrifice liberty or security, but to try to increase both in the same app. Depending on how you use the app should determine what you're willing to sacrifice in order to gain something else.
http://www.brighthubpm.com/risk-management/88566-tool-for-assessing-project-risk/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_Matrix
Any controversial feature in Bitshares should have a warning in red letters that using this feature can bring possible negative consequences. The users of these features in my opinion deserve fair warning. This means the people who decide to keep all their trading activities transparent need to know the latest news and or frequency of extortion. They might want to know for example that there have been multiple extortion attempts against Roger Verr simply because too many of the wrong people knew exactly how much money he was worth and in what form it was.
At the same time a feature like totally anonymous transactions can put the participant at the risk of being harassed by the government, not just the IRS, but various different agencies, and it should also be in big red letters. Total anonymity does not increase security, it brings risk, just as not enough privacy brings risk.
So the recommended way to do things I would say is to be partially transparent. It can be known who you trade with, and why. The amounts you trade on the other hand have to be hidden. If you do decide to be anonymous it should at least be possible to have enough information to prove your innocence if you are harassed. You need a way to show you were not part of the conspiracy, and because the blockchain isn't transparent this responsibility will rest entirely on you, so you would have to expect to receive a knock on the door or some questions.
Every controversial feature has benefits and risks. The user needs to be made aware of the benefits and risks, and needs to know how to use these features responsibly so that they can have the optimal amount of liberty. As Bytemaster once said about decentralization, there is a sweet spot and if you have too much it can actually reduce your efficiency, but if you don't have enough then you're not resilient.
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This means that BitShares original reason for existence (to provide the decentralized exchange) in a world where Bitcoin is being cracked down upon is less and less relevant. Instead we are put in a situation of competing head-to-head with centralized exchanges which are trusted, fast, and legal. In the process of attempting to attract "exchange users" who are ultimately just "speculators" we have lost sight of our original customer: the person who wants freedom from the financial system.
+5%
The people interested in this particular market are few and far between (1% or less of the population), but they are passionate and desperate for tools and willing to try anything. These people are willing to pay significant money to gain their freedom.
+5%
I'm just guessing here but I have to ask ... did you talk with Adam B. Levine recently? ;)
Have you seen all the headlines the past few days? They are trying to blame the recent terror attacks on bitcoin and encryption...
Yep the wheels are moving faster and they have a very big vehicle. =/ I have neighbors who buy into every single bullshit word they hear on TV ... think I'm crazy for getting into Bitcoin and would probably call me a terrorist if I ever brought up encryption now they've heard that "terrorist" use it to communicate. I can only imagine the hit "Telegram" is taking from the recent news where they were basically called out as "the" terrorist platform for communication. Fucking sad days man. The boot is getting closer and closer to my face every goddamn day and so few of the people I know afk even see it or care. That's why I spend most of my time with the cryptocurrency ecosystem. I just hope it doesn't end up being the reason why I'm in a fricken re-education camp in a few years. The good news is they have one really close to my Dad's house so he can visit I guess. =/
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I'm here because BitShares can absolutely transform the way society functions, because we can render existing structures of control obsolete, because we have a chance to rewrite the rules of the game.
BitShares is a socio-political pioneer species (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_species) in the present day wasteland of fractured communities, failed states, wars: both financial, physical, digital, and extending into the realm of thought itself. We are among the first in a whole new species of organism, which holds the potential to restore balance.
I recognize that BitShares must provide valuable services, and be profitable, to continue growing and developing. And although I know there are a number of community members who share the vision of life, liberty, and property for all... I often feel a great mist shrouds the eyes of many into confusing the marker with the game, as they seem primarily focused on profit alone.
Everyone has their own reasons for being here, and I see no reason why we can't all succeed in our aims together.
The financial world, the exchanges; these are currently churning through trillions, and it would likely benefit us to capture even a fraction of this, but personally I'm focused on other applications, other use-cases, and don't have a whole lot of interest in this arena, though I do think there's enormous potential in capturing this energy for other developments, as economic jiu jitsu, to power all manner of other projects. However if we gain the world only to lose our soul, as they say, then we will have lost.
I generally feel that everyone is severely underestimating the population of the planet which is ready to throw off it's chains and turn a new page in human history. These are the people I intend to reach, and the tools are almost there.
We can make BitShares better, and provide for a multitude of use cases. As to the fee debate, my only desire is that I wish there were an elegant solution for providing regional fee scaling so citizens of countries like China, and the US, could be on a more level playing field. Everyone would benefit.
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My thinking is exactly the opposite. What core users need to secure their liberty is profit at the moment. So you can eventually add all the features they need and even create something new and better that is non existent at the moment. With no profit you can't secure the liberty you (and all of us I guess) want so much. The features you want to implement are directly dependent on whether BitShares is profitable or not. No profit means people won't vote for expensive feature implementation.
Maybe the core users would vote for this and stay loyal to the end, but most of the user's won't approve of this if they see the amount of BitShares continually increasing in order to fund non profitable features. That's the problem. People chase money. While you need to think on core users, you need to think on the rest simply because without them BitShares has way less chance of succeeding. I'm not saying they're right or not. I'm just saying you need to take that into consideration. You spook them, they go away, BitShares' chances decrease. You need to consider the masses and the influence they might have on the future of BitShares or not, because without them you won't have the money for the features and liberty you want to achieve. The core users won't pay for all the features for sure, they dont have the money. Masses do. This means - unfortunately - that you depend on them to achieve liberty.
People should be free to take on the level and kinds of risk they want to. At the same time the consequences have to be compartmentalized.
It means how you choose to use or abuse the app is up to you. Different people will use the features in different ways, and of course there will be protesters using Bitshares just as they use Twitter. The point is to allow protesters a way to use it which doesn't bring increased risk to everyone else.
If people want to do tax protests then they are free to do that but then they have to accept the consequence that they could lose their money. At the same time Bitshares has to be able to weather the storm when people inevitably do stuff like that if it is to survive.
Profit in my opinion is important for financial independence. If you can't profit you can't have financial independence. The anti-government stance in my opinion is not necessary for financial independence, because you really only need to profit in a way which doesn't require that you have a boss. For a lot of people just being able to profit without a boss, and be financially independent, is enough of a protest.
For others who take to take on the government or who are in countries where they have to, then they should also have the tools to protest. The point is to make sure everyone knows the level of risk they are under when using different features, at any given time.
Principles I would like to endorse.
1. Every participant should be able to select the level and nature of the risks they are willing to take and the app should make this easier.
2. Every participant who decides on a course of action, should not impact the other participants who decide against that course of action. If a small group of participants decide to go the anti-government protest route then it should not negatively impact the participants who choose to follow the law, pay their taxes, and try to be left alone.
The right to be left alone is just as important as the right to protest I think.
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The purpose of this post wasn't to change any short-term direction. It was to simply recognize that optimizing the exchange business is a short-term strategy for a larger long-term goal.
There are so many choices for future work / direction that failure to take stock of product / market fit can be a disaster.
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Luckybit I don't understand what your post has to do with what I said. I dont understand what it has to do with the risk people want to take or not.
My point is:
Money/profit > more feature implementation > bigger potential for liberty/privacy > Objective accomplished
If we decide to implement those features now or short term:
No profit/money > no more features/incomplete set of features > no liberty/privacy > objective wont be accomplished
It was to simply recognize that optimizing the exchange business is a short-term strategy for a larger long-term goal.
Now that I agree and is what i've been trying to say.
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I'm here because BitShares can absolutely transform the way society functions, because we can render existing structures of control obsolete, because we have a chance to rewrite the rules of the game.
BitShares is a socio-political pioneer species (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_species) in the present day wasteland of fractured communities, failed states, wars: both financial, physical, digital, and extending into the realm of thought itself. We are among the first in a whole new species of organism, which holds the potential to restore balance.
I recognize that BitShares must provide valuable services, and be profitable, to continue growing and developing. And although I know there are a number of community members who share the vision of life, liberty, and property for all... I often feel a great mist shrouds the eyes of many into confusing the marker with the game, as they seem primarily focused on profit alone.
Everyone has their own reasons for being here, and I see no reason why we can't all succeed in our aims together.
The financial world, the exchanges; these are currently churning through trillions, and it would likely benefit us to capture even a fraction of this, but personally I'm focused on other applications, other use-cases, and don't have a whole lot of interest in this arena, though I do think there's enormous potential in capturing this energy for other developments, as economic jiu jitsu, to power all manner of other projects. However if we gain the world only to lose our soul, then we will have lost.
I generally feel that everyone is severely underestimating the population of the planet which is ready to throw off it's chains and turn a new page in human history. These are the people I intend to reach, and the tools are almost there.
We can make BitShares better, and provide for a multitude of use cases. As to the fee debate, my only desire is that I wish there were an elegant solution for providing regional fee scaling so countries like China, and the US, could be on a more level playing field. Everyone would benefit.
+5%
I'm still here because of the original vision though i do feel i have lost sight of it. Bitshares can provide the tools that will create the new systems of immutable freedom of voluntary cooperation that will be crucial in bringing about a new system of control that is localized squarely with the individual. I am whole heatedly on board for the ideas of civil disobedience and I see the state or government as the largest obstacle to a free and prosperous, peaceful society. The state is the biggest instrument of organized crime. It does nothing to protect any of us from anything. Any effort to bow to state demands or regulations personally I feel is a shame and a waste of otherwise valiant efforts. Though I completely understand the desire for cookie cuter, safe, draw within the state approved lines avenue its just not moves me personally, not what I'm here for. I'm sure we can all make some money playing into the hands of the ruling class but that is not my core motivation for being here and ultimately a far greater opportunity lies outside these lines.
I think we've made great progress and built a monster of a platform. The exchange is a great feature but my heart pulls for greater ambitions and I'd be thrilled to see a wider scope and renewed focus on the core principles that brought me here.
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Here is one reason why I am here:
I look at what our central banking masters do: they bring interest rates artificially low so that debt is good and savings are bad. They incentive everyone to go into debt for 25+ years with the allure of home ownership, and the system they set up of new money though loans virtually guarantees that prices go up, so you have no choice but to play their game if you ever want a house. They have convinced everyone that they need to become a slave. And then all the old people are sitting in their £million houses that they bought for peanuts, feeling good that young people who are starting their working lives will be forced to prop up the ponzi scheme by going into debt to get a bike shed, whilst simultaneously paying 50% of their salary in tax.
So yeah I would like to the system collapse. But that can only happen if there is an asset that is so deflationary that the market cap goes up in billions consistently year on year. Then it will naturally grab so much attention that everyone will relax in the knowledge that their savings are safe and appreciating in value by way more then pumped up houses ever will. Then voila, no one will feel pressured to go into debt again. That for me is financial freedom.
Bitcoin's design flaws (mining) mean that it will never accomplish this. It needs to be profitable to really threaten the financial system. The Bank of England even said that Bitcoin could pose a threat, but they dont think it can win enough users (I agree with them 100% here):
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/11/bitcoin-threat-financial-stability-uk-bank-of-england
This fantasy probably has plot holes.
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BM there has never been a greater need for a decentralised exchange.....the risks presented by centralised exchanges and private blockchains are increasing, not decreasing. Any regulation that occurs that appears favourable to blockchain tech is there to act as a brake to innovation and give entrenched interests time to recover the initiative. Corruption occurs over time and will inevitably occur even with currently honest services....the point of BitShares is that it resists corruption over time, because every design decision is the best it can be at ensuring that. So corruption resistance, appropriate economic incentives, usability then marketing.
I agree with many sentiments written here. We have the technological and philosophical foundation, an incredible, forged community, hardened over the fire of the last year. Now we need to polish what we have, make everything as useable as possible, then reasses.
You are an inspiration and it is right to question our objectives and progress.....this time we must hold the line and get something working absolutely right before moving on. How else can we make a rational assessment of how far we've come?
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The purpose of this post wasn't to change any short-term direction. It was to simply recognize that optimizing the exchange business is a short-term strategy for a larger long-term goal.
There are so many choices for future work / direction that failure to take stock of product / market fit can be a disaster.
Was your post in response to the "Security Panic" we see from governments and individuals who are blaming encryption for the terrorist attacks?
Risk based approach to policy would say that because the odds of dying in a terrorist attack are something like 20,000,000 to 1, and the odds of being struct by lightening or getting in a car accident are much higher, the probability should set the policies rather than emotions.
Unfortunately I think a lot of politicians and people in law enforcement wait for a terrorist attack to push for policies they've been trying to push for years. Backdoors in encryption which would make us all less secure, or banning encryption, these policies aren't based on the statistics. The danger from a terrorist attack doesn't quantatatively justify the level of sacrifice to civil liberties they are demanding.
If the situation were different and suddenly terrorist attacks were becoming much more frequent, with much higher death tolls, then I would understand their policies and crack downs, but so far no terrorist attack that I know of has been directly funded primarily by Bitcoin, or any cryptocurrency, and as far as I know terrorists have always had encryption and value transfer.
Hawala has existed for a long time. And encryption itself was invented in the regions which are now involved in terrorist attacks. If we look at any of the World Wars or the Cold War then we find encryption was used. Law enforcement never before had the ability to decrypt everything and monitor everyone, and in war the NSA is supposed to have those capabilities.
My conclusion is that for the most part it's political. Any time when decisions are made in the heat of them moment, where emotions are high, then you could get less than rational policies and outcomes. This isn't to say that ISIS can't hurt us or that there is no risk at all, but more that the reactions and threat of a crackdown are not rational because their own documents say so.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/468210/UK_NRA_October_2015_final_web.pdf
So when marketing certain features, it should be known that:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/youre-55-times-likely-killed-police-officer-terrorist.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-terrorism-statistics-every-american-needs-to-hear/5382818
The statistics reveal the true security situation. If the statistics don't show an increasing risk, maybe it's imagined.
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Luckybit I don't understand what your post has to do with what I said. I dont understand what it has to do with the risk people want to take or not.
My point is:
Money/profit > more feature implementation > bigger potential for liberty/privacy > Objective accomplished
If we decide to implement those features now or short term:
No profit/money > no more features/incomplete set of features > no liberty/privacy > objective wont be accomplished
It was to simply recognize that optimizing the exchange business is a short-term strategy for a larger long-term goal.
Now that I agree and is what i've been trying to say.
We basically agree but my opinion is, features must take into account "risks" that Bitshares participants may inherit. When it comes to anonymous currency, that is inevitable, but it also brings risks.
On the other hand not having privacy brings risks. What that means is you have to mitigate and manage the risks to produce security in an ecosystem. If you don't want law enforcement to do it then you have to self regulate and build it into the design of your app.
I think we all agree on financial independence. Once we diverge from that and start going into other stuff like tax protests or controversial features, then people begin to divide and I don't think that is a good thing because it marginalizes a potentially large community.
Everyone can agree that financial independence is good. Whether you love the government or hate the government, not having to depend on the government as much isn't exactly a bad thing. But Bitshares is in my opinion no where near that point, as it has to be profitable as a decentralized exchange, and people who participate have to be financially independent in order for people to believe a blockchain can hire people and put them in a financially independent state.
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This post was not motivated by any external news (I wasn't aware Bitcoin was being blamed for recent terrorist activities). I posted this as a reminder to everyone (and myself) of why we are here.
It is good to see the solid feedback of the users that are here. Philosophy builds loyalty. Loyalty creates hoarders. Hoarders create demand. Demand increases prices.
Profits bring those motivated by "greed" and greed brings short-term thinking. Short term thinking will not get us out of a long-term hole.
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I am here because I want an alternative to government.
BitShares because of your talent and ideas for a better world bytemaster.
I believe that the basic fee settings cannot be that bad so I don't care about changing them.
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This post was not motivated by any external news (I wasn't aware Bitcoin was being blamed for recent terrorist activities). I posted this as a reminder to everyone (and myself) of why we are here.
It is good to see the solid feedback of the users that are here. Philosophy builds loyalty. Loyalty creates hoarders. Hoarders create demand. Demand increases prices.
Profits bring those motivated by "greed" and greed brings short-term thinking. Short term thinking will not get us out of a long-term hole.
I agree, I just think we have to be careful in how we frame the concepts in the philosophy. We want a big tent, and I think financial independence is a huge tent.
Here is an example of a demographic that would benefit from Bitshares but that might be scared away by the libertarian presentation:
http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/danaher20151103
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvpTmiVhcxU
What is a post work world? A world with more financial independence? In the end a lot of people, maybe even the vast majority, do not like their jobs, to have to work for a boss, and most don't know what it means to own property. Property ownership is often misunderstood and perceived as some sort of "greed", but at the same time it's a path to financial independence.
Crowd funding in my opinion will make this very clear to the masses. I do think Bitshares can attract the masses once more people understand that they can actually own stocks and that it's not just for rich people but when only half the population own stocks, it's hard to make a case. Bitshares would allow gamers to trade video game items and learn about property ownership, these might be just teenagers, but they might not be able to buy stocks through a broker, but it still would be beneficial to them if they can have the same access as adults.
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This has been a great reminder Bytemaster. We all need to ensure that we don't lose sight of what we are trying to accomplish. I am glad to see the motivations of my fellow BitSharerers. I am, as I often am very happy to be a part of this great community.
I'm still here because of the original vision though i do feel i have lost sight of it. Bitshares can provide the tools that will create the new systems of immutable freedom of voluntary cooperation that will be crucial in bringing about a new system of control that is localized squarely with the individual. I am whole heatedly on board for the ideas of civil disobedience and I see the state or government as the largest obstacle to a free and prosperous, peaceful society. The state is the biggest instrument of organized crime. It does nothing to protect any of us from anything. Any effort to bow to state demands or regulations personally I feel is a shame and a waste of otherwise valiant efforts. Though I completely understand the desire for cookie cuter, safe, draw within the state approved lines avenue its just not moves me personally, not what I'm here for. I'm sure we can all make some money playing into the hands of the ruling class but that is not my core motivation for being here and ultimately a far greater opportunity lies outside these lines.
I think we've made great progress and built a monster of a platform. The exchange is a great feature but my heart pulls for greater ambitions and I'd be thrilled to see a wider scope and renewed focus on the core principles that brought me here.
Well said Xeldal
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I'm a little confused at the purpose of this post.
The reason/purpose for this post imo, is that not many in the community were supportive of the stealth transfers workers proposal - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20104.0.html
It's a repeated behaviour pattern that occurs when BM wants to direct his focus to something but the community/shareholders would prefer him to work on something else.
When his currently preferred direction deviates from the community, it results in him questioning his reasons for being here, as he is more of a creative leader than an employee. If he is unsuccessful at shifting short term focus to the above proposal, then the stakes are usually raised.
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The purpose of this post wasn't to change any short-term direction. It was to simply recognize that optimizing the exchange business is a short-term strategy for a larger long-term goal.
...
Yes, it's low hanging fruit but by all means, we should PICK IT!
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WHY is the source of motivation. The reason why people don't do something that we know is good for them is because they don't have a strong enough reason to...not a powerful enough why.
Look at DOGE coin. The reason is: Because it's fun!
Why am I here, Why BitShares?
The reason why is because this project was built upon a mission: To Secure Life, Liberty and Property.
Knowing that people rallied around that idea, built a community and an amazing technology is something that keep me around.
Also, I find amazing that I have an opportunity to invest in businesses that believe the same thing (OBITS, METAFEES, etc.)
It's a community of bright and forward thinking entrepreneurs.
Another powerful WHY is that I would like to see this tech replace FOREX and NASDAQ. People from all around the world being able to jump in the game without having to go through expensive 3rd party.
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I'm a little confused at the purpose of this post.
The reason/purpose for this post imo, is that not many in the community were supportive of the stealth transfers workers proposal - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20104.0.html
It's a repeated behaviour pattern that occurs when BM wants to direct his focus to something but the community/shareholders would prefer him to work on something else.
When his currently preferred direction deviates from the community, it results in him questioning his reasons for being here, as he is more of a creative leader than an employee. If he is unsuccessful at shifting short term focus to the above proposal, then the stakes are usually raised.
It's the cost that people didn't like. People don't mind having the feature but at that cost, and because it's presented in an ideological manner, it appeared to stakeholders that it's a feature which will not be worth the ROI and potentially negative publicity as well due to the timing.
But I think we do need privacy. If you don't have privacy no one is going to want to be a large holder if everyone can target them. So the way Bytemaster should have marketed the feature is by revealing the risks associated with not having it. It might be that if Bitshares become worth too much money people will have to move it to Indentabit or a bank just so it's safe.
I think reputation is a greater priority than anonymity, but I do think you need privacy in some form, even if you keep some minimal transparency I highly doubt you want the world to know exactly what your net worth is or where you put your life savings.
Currently the risk/benefit analysis may not favor priority implementation of that feature. In my opinion the exchange features should have priority implementation, but I do think privacy is necessary in some form. I just think careful thought should go into how it's done so that it's privacy that reduces risks more than it creates them, and I think that is handled by the interface.
Just having stealth/blind transactions don't give you much if you don't know how to use it.
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Btw, the reason why I'm here is - also because of the community, ideals and the fact I can vote and know my vote actually counts in building the future - is mainly because of my naive dream of ending with corruption. But maybe we can help decrease it a bit. I'd be happy if that was achieved.
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The internet and information-technology is completely alien to human civilization and we're only barely beginning to see its complete unfolding and restructuring of traditional values and cultures. Bitcoin has an essential role to play in this narrative being the seed of a native value for this alien web of interconnections. We take this achievement to heart and accelerate and generalize its impact to include complete financial independence starting with the essential exchange of value. These and associated information technologies will ensure that economic friction will approach zero as the internet matures. We are a potentially essential piece in an event of unimaginable significance. To downplay the role of both decentralization and anonymity in building an exchange is to mispercieve the exponential future of value transfers and the impossibility of traditional structures to adapt adequately. Decentralized exchange, prediction markets and equity crowd-funding and other things beside.. Imagine how Wikipedia, the Pirate Party, Anonymous, and all other internet natives are free to flourish when value flows freely. We fear our weakness now, but soon we'll fear our strength.
Sure this exchange business will be a dry day-job for the foreseeable future, and our grand vision will have to rest, but maximizing financial independence and minimizing economic friction is likely one of the most rational things to do if we evaluate our options according to effective altruism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism). We also can't build the future before the foundation is in place; creating the architecture and platform was the right thing to do. There are millions of passionate activists bleeding their heart out for various causes, but to really make a dent in the world one needs an aptitude for inspired shortcuts through space and time, like that Elon Musk who by creating PayPal was going straight to Mars.
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I'm a little confused at the purpose of this post.
The reason/purpose for this post imo, is that not many in the community were supportive of the stealth transfers workers proposal - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20104.0.html
It's a repeated behaviour pattern that occurs when BM wants to direct his focus to something but the community/shareholders would prefer him to work on something else.
When his currently preferred direction deviates from the community, it results in him questioning his reasons for being here, as he is more of a creative leader than an employee. If he is unsuccessful at shifting short term focus to the above proposal, then the stakes are usually raised.
It's the cost that people didn't like. People don't mind having the feature but at that cost, and because it's presented in an ideological manner, it appeared to stakeholders that it's a feature which will not be worth the ROI and potentially negative publicity as well due to the timing.
But I think we do need privacy. If you don't have privacy no one is going to want to be a large holder if everyone can target them. So the way Bytemaster should have marketed the feature is by revealing the risks associated with not having it. It might be that if Bitshares become worth too much money people will have to move it to Indentabit or a bank just so it's safe.
I think reputation is a greater priority than anonymity, but I do think you need privacy in some form, even if you keep some minimal transparency I highly doubt you want the world to know exactly what your net worth is or where you put your life savings.
I agree. Privacy is a needed and valuable feature.
I've been an advocate for a while that decentralized blockchains should focus on and have a big market in those types of areas.
I think this insight is a good one...
This means that BitShares original reason for existence (to provide the decentralized exchange) in a world where Bitcoin is being cracked down upon is less and less relevant. Instead we are put in a situation of competing head-to-head with centralized exchanges which are trusted, fast, and legal.
However I also tend to agree with most other people that it isn't the highest immediate priority right now, given how close the DEX is to being fantastic and given the cost. I think there is huge value in 'DEX + Liquid Smartcoins'
Historically with VOTE, Secret Sauce, 'What is a New User Worth?', Merger and a few other things, I get immediately concerned when I see posts signalling the current focus might not fit BM's vision/mission because it often precedes, my way or the highway, type direction changes.
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Historically with VOTE, Secret Sauce, 'What is a New User Worth?', Merger and a few other things, I get immediately concerned when I see posts signalling the current focus might not fit BM's vision/mission because it often precedes, my way or the highway, type direction changes.
Yep, 300 sat BTS incoming.
Soon the answer to this will be that we are here to watch NSR pass BTS market cap. :P
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OMG, what the crap did I just read? Most of people in the world are not bothered by governments and are not sick with any libertarian dreams. Most of people think about much simpler things like what will I eat tomorrow or how will I raise my kids. This is the reason why NASDAQ and Forex exist. People consume huge amount of stuff every day, many of which is produced over seas. NASDAQ and Forex help them to satisfy their needs, being the link between producers and consumers. They offer end solution. None of crypto projects can take their place, because all of them are made by libertarian dreamers, who don't understand how thing which they buy every day, appear in their supermarkets. Crypto is useless even for such simple things like cross border money transfer for remittance or online shopping purpose. Just a cool toy with farts and whistles, attracting curious tech geeks, who do not mind to lose money gambling against each other. I am following this blockchain tech for about three years, and hoping that at least one project will come out which is attached to real world economy. After reading crap about opposing the regime as a locomotive of progress, I am losing my hope.
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The NSR buyback purchase just went through. It was so beautiful.
Bitshares devs, given that NSR is spending $10k a week now buying back NSR, maybe you can get them to give you $45k to implement stealth transfers in NSR?
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OMG, what the crap did I just read? Most of people in the world are not bothered by governments and are not sick with any libertarian dreams. Most of people think about much simpler things like what will I eat tomorrow or how will I raise my kids. This is the reason why NASDAQ and Forex exist. People consume huge amount of stuff every day, many of which is produced over seas. NASDAQ and Forex help them to satisfy their needs, being the link between producers and consumers. They offer end solution. None of crypto projects can take their place, because all of them are made by libertarian dreamers, who don't understand how thing which they buy every day, appear in their supermarkets. Crypto is useless even for such simple things like cross border money transfer for remittance or online shopping purpose. Just a cool toy with farts and whistles, attracting curious tech geeks, who do not mind to lose money gambling against each other. I am following this blockchain tech for about three years, and hoping that at least one project will come out which is attached to real world economy. After reading crap about opposing the regime as a locomotive of progress, I am losing my hope.
Did you even bother reading the rest?
The purpose of this post wasn't to change any short-term direction. It was to simply recognize that optimizing the exchange business is a short-term strategy for a larger long-term goal.
....
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Most of people in the world are not bothered by governments
Where is this imaginary land? I want to move there!
The fact that they can't or choose not to see the tyranny does not mean it doesn't exist. They WILL see it and experience it sooner or later ... probably sooner.
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Most of people in the world are not bothered by governments
Where is this imaginary land? I want to move there!
The fact that they can't or choose not to see the tyranny does not mean it doesn't exist. They WILL see it and experience it sooner or later ... probably sooner.
Oh year if you ask 1000 people on the street if they like their government or not, 900 of them will answer not. But they will not pay you a fraction of cent to liberate them because a) they don't actually suffer from regime in most of the world (with very rare exceptions), they suffer from completely different things; and b) you can't give to those who actually suffer from regime any freedom anyway, my libertarian friend. WHAHAHA!!!
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I'm with BM on this one. Privacy is absolutely essential to exchange function... how on earth do you expect businesses and people with any amount of money to use any blockchain services if they're unable to keep their finances private... I'm somewhat concerned that most of you haven't realized that's one of the major differences between a completely public blockchain like we have now and the exchanges we're competing against... Get the basic building blocks in place first and then focus on the growth and acquisition of users/businesses.
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I'm with BM on this one. Privacy is absolutely essential to exchange function...
I agree.
We had privacy in bitshares 0.x
So why did it get taken away and then sold back to us for $45k?
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I'm with BM on this one. Privacy is absolutely essential to exchange function...
I agree.
We had privacy in bitshares 0.x
So why did it get taken away and then sold back to us for $45k?
good question...I'd imagine there are reasons though... i'm guessing due to the requirement that developers eat and its technically more challenging and time consuming than was thought previously... BM?
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Most of people in the world are not bothered by governments
Where is this imaginary land? I want to move there!
The fact that they can't or choose not to see the tyranny does not mean it doesn't exist. They WILL see it and experience it sooner or later ... probably sooner.
Oh year if you ask 1000 people on the street if they like their government or not, 900 of them will answer not. But they will not pay you a fraction of cent to liberate them because a) they don't actually suffer from regime in most of the world (with very rare exceptions), they suffer from completely different things; and b) you can't give to those who actually suffer from regime any freedom anyway, my libertarian friend. WHAHAHA!!!
@yvv On some level I agree with you which is why I said what I said. On the other hand financial independence is politically neutral as a term which is why it's the only phrase I use.
The libertarian stuff is why Bytemaster is here. Financial independence is why anyone would be here whether they love or hate government, libertarian or not. The concept we should promote in my opinion is to help people to become more resilient, to help people to reduce their dependency on governments and large corporations, to allow people to work directly for the blockchain, to allow people to be left alone.
I think most people don't have an agenda except to live and peace and be left alone. People pay taxes so the IRS will leave them alone. People pay the warlord mafia kingpin so they'll be left alone. People follow the laws so they'll be left alone. People want to be left alone.
People also want to be able to survive without having to depend on government handouts, and without having to depend on an employer. Can Bitshares make all of these practical desires possible? If the answer is yes then you can build an ecosystem around financial independence alone, without the need for any other concept.
If you ask a person if they like the government many of them do because they require the government services to live. It's like asking an infant if they like their parents when their parents give them food and shelter. If you ask a person if they like their boss, they'll have to say they do or they might get fired from their job and not be able to pay their rent.
So at the core of all dependency issues is the fact that most people are financially dependent on others, often the whims of politicians, or a boss who lives overseas who is the person who owns the company. Most people never have the financial independence to own companies of their own, or to be their own boss, or to even hope to experience what freedom is like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_independence
It does not matter how old or young someone is or how much money they have or make. If they can generate enough money to meet their needs from sources other than their primary occupation, then they have achieved financial independence. Age is potentially irrelevant with respect to financial independence. If they are 25 years old and their expenses are only $100 per month and they have assets that generate $101 or more per month, they have achieved financial independence, and they are now free to do things that they enjoy without having to worry as much. If, on the other hand, they are 50 years old and earn a million dollars a month but still have expenses above a million dollars a month, then they are not financially independent because they still have to generate the difference each month just to stay even. However, this needs to take into consideration the effects of inflation. If a person needs $100/month for living expenses today, that figure will be $105/month next year and $110.25/month in the following year to support the same lifestyle assuming a 5% annual inflation rate. Therefore, if the person in the above example obtains their passive income from a perpetuity, there will be a time when they lose their financial independence because of inflation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/3dm8yc/meta_read_this_before_posting/
I think Bitshares should simply promote financial independence. Bytemaster can have his grand ideology, his philosophy, and it's all respectable, but we should not expect a majority of people to understand any of it. Most people don't have degrees in political philosophy, and don't know or have faith in any of that. People simply want the American dream which in my opinion Bitshares and the concept of the DAC are in a position to completely re-imagine.
Present a new dream, which invites everyone regardless of ideology or politics, to interact with the blockchain, to live a better and safer life. Protesters aren't always after a better or safer life. Protesters are looking to sacrifice for others, to go to prison for their beliefs when necessary, to in some cases die for their beliefs, but we shouldn't expect that all Bitshares users are going to be protesters, nor should the function of Bitshares be for protest.
Bitshares should be a decentralized exchange and nothing else. Apps built around it can be for protesting, or apps UIAs can be protest UIAs, but I don't think the entire Bitshares should get caught up in that and lose focus on financial independence which is a mainstream dream.
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I'm with BM on this one. Privacy is absolutely essential to exchange function...
I agree.
We had privacy in bitshares 0.x
So why did it get taken away and then sold back to us for $45k?
good question...I'd imagine there are reasons though... i'm guessing due to the requirement that developers eat and its technically more challenging and time consuming than was thought previously... BM?
Bitshares 0.9x was not private. I can confirm that there were ways to track people. I don't know the details of stealth blind transfers but I would say they aren't going to be totally private either. It's all about costs, and the security comes from the expense it would take to invade privacy. If your computer for example gets rooted then it's not going to matter if you use anonymous transactions.
What they do is raise the expenses in violating the privacy of the participants who use it. This is why I would say if you use it, use it properly, or don't use it. Also know the risks before you use the feature.
For most people, anonymous transactions will not be useful. For the diehard protesters and activists these features will be useful. I also agree $45,000 for this kind of feature is very expensive, I looked at the javascript, while I don't know fully how it works, it doesn't look like it's $45,000 to implement but who knows? Maybe it has to be tested quite a bit?
In general, at this point in time $45,000 is probably more than people have to spend with prices this low and other higher priorities like Margin Trading and Fees. If the community can summon $45,000 then that would show there is a group of diehard activists demanding this feature. I think due to the controversy it should be done via a crowdsale and funded by a UIA.
I also like the idea @donkeypong or was it @Anders who put forth that NRS should get the feature. If it's funded by crowdsale UIA then Bytemaster could develop the feature for multiple blockchains and receive funding from multiple communities. That would get it implemented a bit faster and get more of the code out there.
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@luckybit Agree with financial independence argument. Those monopolies play bad jokes with people. I will not name them here because they are well known assholes.
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Oh year if you ask 1000 people on the street if they like their government or not, 900 of them will answer not. But they will not pay you a fraction of cent to liberate them because a) they don't actually suffer from regime in most of the world (with very rare exceptions), they suffer from completely different things; and b) you can't give to those who actually suffer from regime any freedom anyway, my libertarian friend. WHAHAHA!!!
If they have a master they suffer. If they pay taxes they suffer. Getting used to the suffering seems to help some get by and these are the people you are describing.
So you're saying mental illness prevents people from fighting for their freedom. I agree. They are mentally ill and accept slavery because of their masters programming. However it is curable.
I'm not a Libertarian. I just don't see the need for a master and I can't ignore your or anyone else's master's atrocities and I can't live my life pretending it's legitimate or needed just to get by like others living with their programmed mental illness that allows them to not only accept their slavery but stand up for and promote it as you and millions of other sheep do publicly.
Embrace teh tyranny! Slavery is much easier! Consume! Obey! Conform! =/
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I'm with BM on this one. Privacy is absolutely essential to exchange function...
I agree.
We had privacy in bitshares 0.x
So why did it get taken away and then sold back to us for $45k?
good question...I'd imagine there are reasons though... i'm guessing due to the requirement that developers eat and its technically more challenging and time consuming than was thought previously... BM?
It didn't get taken way. We got a better alternative that is functional on the protocol level (I've used it) but not implemented in the GUI
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However I also tend to agree with most other people that it isn't the highest immediate priority right now, given how close the DEX is to being fantastic and given the cost. I think there is huge value in 'DEX + Liquid Smartcoins'
Historically with VOTE, Secret Sauce, 'What is a New User Worth?', Merger and a few other things, I get immediately concerned when I see posts signalling the current focus might not fit BM's vision/mission because it often precedes, my way or the highway, type direction changes.
I have to agree with Empirical.2 here. Stealth transfers in the GUI wallet are not our immediate priority. We have more liquidity now than we did on Bitshares 1.0 when we had TITAN. I don't think our target market is crypto diehards who want better encryption tools to protect their privacy. If you use bitcoin, right now, and aren't using stealth addresses and coin mixing (which is the majority of bitcoin users) your main goal isn't privacy, it's freedom of speech. A decentralized exchange where contracts are not enforced by a centralized state is the ultimate mechanism for exercising free speech. We will certainly need stealth transfers in the GUI at some point, but you shouldn't force this down shareholders throats like many of the other proposed changes, or you will risk single handedly driving down the price of BTS, which won't help you reach any of your aforementioned goals.
Anyone that is still here, clearly maintains the original vision that Bitshares was created in. We've solidified the WHY time and time again. We need to solidify the HOW.
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I'm here because BitShares can absolutely transform the way society functions, because we can render existing structures of control obsolete, because we have a chance to rewrite the rules of the game.
BitShares is a socio-political pioneer species (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_species) in the present day wasteland of fractured communities, failed states, wars: both financial, physical, digital, and extending into the realm of thought itself. We are among the first in a whole new species of organism, which holds the potential to restore balance.
I recognize that BitShares must provide valuable services, and be profitable, to continue growing and developing. And although I know there are a number of community members who share the vision of life, liberty, and property for all... I often feel a great mist shrouds the eyes of many into confusing the marker with the game, as they seem primarily focused on profit alone.
Everyone has their own reasons for being here, and I see no reason why we can't all succeed in our aims together.
The financial world, the exchanges; these are currently churning through trillions, and it would likely benefit us to capture even a fraction of this, but personally I'm focused on other applications, other use-cases, and don't have a whole lot of interest in this arena, though I do think there's enormous potential in capturing this energy for other developments, as economic jiu jitsu, to power all manner of other projects. However if we gain the world only to lose our soul, then we will have lost.
I generally feel that everyone is severely underestimating the population of the planet which is ready to throw off it's chains and turn a new page in human history. These are the people I intend to reach, and the tools are almost there.
We can make BitShares better, and provide for a multitude of use cases. As to the fee debate, my only desire is that I wish there were an elegant solution for providing regional fee scaling so countries like China, and the US, could be on a more level playing field. Everyone would benefit.
+5%
I'm still here because of the original vision though i do feel i have lost sight of it. Bitshares can provide the tools that will create the new systems of immutable freedom of voluntary cooperation that will be crucial in bringing about a new system of control that is localized squarely with the individual. I am whole heatedly on board for the ideas of civil disobedience and I see the state or government as the largest obstacle to a free and prosperous, peaceful society. The state is the biggest instrument of organized crime. It does nothing to protect any of us from anything. Any effort to bow to state demands or regulations personally I feel is a shame and a waste of otherwise valiant efforts. Though I completely understand the desire for cookie cuter, safe, draw within the state approved lines avenue its just not moves me personally, not what I'm here for. I'm sure we can all make some money playing into the hands of the ruling class but that is not my core motivation for being here and ultimately a far greater opportunity lies outside these lines.
I think we've made great progress and built a monster of a platform. The exchange is a great feature but my heart pulls for greater ambitions and I'd be thrilled to see a wider scope and renewed focus on the core principles that brought me here.
I too am here for the original vision and I have never lost sight of that. I have been very disappointed on several occasions this year as one pivot after another seemed to move this community further and further away from that vision. So many efforts that diluted and weakened our resolve sent many running away in disillusionment. Why DNS was sacrificed and FMV deemed more important still puzzles the hell out of me.
I was almost asleep waiting for this community to regain the passion that would sharpen our focus back to the original vision. @bytemaster, I am grateful for your passion, creativity and stamina to see this project through to the success I know it can be, if we C A N J U S T S T A Y F O C U S E D ! It takes skillful leadership to set short, mid and long term goals in this crypto space. Sadly, to be honest, I just haven't seen much of that here in terms of the business decisions. You R O C K i t on the tech and innovation side, not so much with timing, marketing, PR and business.
I agree with many of the posts in this thread. I am surprised not to see more of those who prioritize profit express themselves here as a counter to the OP. There's nothing wrong with profit, but like BM said we must not loose sight of our vision or we'll loose our primary reason for our efforts. Core values matter!
@bytemaster, it's admirable that you wish to see this community take over the governance of this project in a manor similar to how a father wants to see his son take on increasing responsibility as he matures. However, a good father will not give more responsibility to his son than he can handle for the level of maturity he is at. It takes wisdom to know the right balance to be given so as to lead and strengthen the son, to groom him for leadership. You know this, that's why we still have init committee members in place. This is one area you seem to have gotten it right. S O glad to see that!!!
I can't tell you how great it is to see this thread. In the face of all of the current challenges before us I needed the reassurance your OP provided that tells me you haven't departed from your original vision. I seriously questioned that when Identibit was announced. However, the empirical evidence of our progress since 10/13 has not inspired confidence. I concur with the others that say we must stay focused on completing the exchange functionality to support traders and ease of use. Define clear objectives and stick with them. Jakub is really doing a great job for you, don't hinder his efforts but rather strengthen them by demonstrating to this community you are making measurable progress towards identified goals / milestones. You need a good project manager, someone that knows how to use Microsoft Project and keep a team focused and on task. Project is good to measure progress. I've seen it used very effectively and it actually helped the team's morale, b/c it allowed everyone to see everybody else's progress and stumbling blocks.
Finishing these will provide a major positive impact. In no particular order:
UI / UX improvements using popular exchanges as a model
Referral program - refine as necessary, get Max Wright or SolomonSollarsNSense to create a video to highlight its use and benefits
Documentation, both for users and developers (i.e. API docs, examples and use cases)
UI for privacy features, if even just a minimal subset
I could add others, but these represent plenty of work and will be huge! Devise a plan of attack (i.e. schedule, milestones) to reach these goals and show progress each week until completed.
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The privacy is more important in the exchange. I think this proposal is only for transferring. Can we expand this proposal to market functions?
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The privacy is more important in the exchange. I think this proposal is only for transferring. Can we expand this proposal to market functions?
That seems technically impossible but also why would you want that? The market statistics seem essential. If you're using a masked account that you just created for the market, and then you transfer to a stealth account after, then wouldn't it be private?
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So I ask each of you, Why are you here? Why do you support BitShares? And how does the Fee Debate, Exchange vs Payment Debate, actually support your Reason for being here?
Sustainability.
Security.
Innovation.
Freedom.
Profit.
The debates thus far have been points of minutia. We should be more focused on matters regarding improvements that will further the sustainability, security, innovation, freedom, and profit of Bitshares.
I am here because I believe BitShares can be the bridge from government fiat to people driven currency.
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I'm here because I believe P2P can change the world for the better.. before cryptocurrency I didn't see any feasible solutions for our growing systemic problems. Bitcoin was eye-opening but DPOS took it much further.
I'm not here for the dex in particular.. I want to see usable e-2-e encryption, better identity management, secure DNS, transparent governance & voting, micropayments & profitable open-source, DACs, reputation systems, etc etc... but we need to start somewhere and the dex & MPA's are a good foundation (or will be.. soon.. hopefully).
I'm excited about BitShares, Identabit, Muse and really any project that offers increased freedom/privacy/convenience, devs with strong vision, room for growth, and the ability to own a part. I'll contribute to projects like these that will help change the world (or at least an industry.. for starters).
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The privacy is more important in the exchange. I think this proposal is only for transferring. Can we expand this proposal to market functions?
That seems technically impossible but also why would you want that? The market statistics seem essential. If you're using a masked account that you just created for the market, and then you transfer to a stealth account after, then wouldn't it be private?
Some traders do not want to reveal their positions. That's why.
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Oh year if you ask 1000 people on the street if they like their government or not, 900 of them will answer not. But they will not pay you a fraction of cent to liberate them because a) they don't actually suffer from regime in most of the world (with very rare exceptions), they suffer from completely different things; and b) you can't give to those who actually suffer from regime any freedom anyway, my libertarian friend. WHAHAHA!!!
If they have a master they suffer. If they pay taxes they suffer. Getting used to the suffering seems to help some get by and these are the people you are describing.
So you're saying mental illness prevents people from fighting for their freedom. I agree. They are mentally ill and accept slavery because of their masters programming. However it is curable.
I'm not a Libertarian. I just don't see the need for a master and I can't ignore your or anyone else's master's atrocities and I can't live my life pretending it's legitimate or needed just to get by like others living with their programmed mental illness that allows them to not only accept their slavery but stand up for and promote it as you and millions of other sheep do publicly.
Embrace teh tyranny! Slavery is much easier! Consume! Obey! Conform! =/
+5%
Preach on brother Tuck!
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Such a refreshing thing to be reading from the bytemaestro. And to think I had my doubts about the longterm goals of this project. Bah. Shame on me.
I'm intentionally replying before I read the other responses because I want to compare my thoughts about this before and after taking in all the community's input.
I think most of the people here for ideological reasons rather than for profit motivated reasons can agree that there is a force at work which controls our lives in a way which may not immediately be apparent or understood. I think there is room for disagreement among the community, or if not, there definitely will be once we get the TV loving masses on board, about what the source of that control is. It feels more like we're being manipulated. Like our world-view is being shaped to align with interests that may not necessarily be our own.
Is this shaping force the government? Corporations? The plutocracy? Or is there zero conspiracy and this is what happens when the best that can be done by humanity gets averaged in with the lowest common denominator? I sure hope not. I'd like to think better of us. We could argue about that for many hours and still not budge each other. That's why these tools should be politically neutral, but simultaneously meet the needs of every viewpoint on the matter.
Why am I here? After becoming acquainted with Bitcoin as a user/non-holder, I realized during one of the bubbles that there's money to be made. That is what piqued my interest and got me to learning about it, and as I did, I realized that it was much bigger than just a safer alternative to liberty reserve, or just a way to buy some weed. When the blockchain clicked I saw that the implications for the world ran much deeper. This is about the time alt-coins first started arriving on the scene, and this is how I ended up here. It would be a lie for me to say that profit wasn't the original thing that got me interested in crypto.
Is profit an important factor in achieving the overall goal, to give people financial autonomy? That depends on whether or not you believe we can reach that goal without it. If not, then profit is priority number one, and tweaking the exchange and figuring out the most profitable role should be top of the list. If so, then profit will come, and we can focus on whatever gives end users more means for financial autonomy such as the bong bond market and anonymity.
This is what lends importance to the fee debate and the role debate. It's the assumption that the show can not proceed without a means to cover development costs. It sounds to me, BM, like you're arguing that we are now in a position, budget wise, where we can push forward without having to worry about how receptive businesses are, and can focus on the end user that we're ultimately trying to liberate. So I answer your question with another question, are we in such a position? Can the show go on if we opt to worry less about courting whales and more about giving people the tools they need to stand against governments/plutocrats/thugs/each other?
I think that either way Bitshares will grow and the infrastructure will grow with it. I think it's possible, nay inevitable that there could even come a point where there's enough interest that all the current devs could go retire and the show will go on. It's simply a question of mapping out how it will grow, and what it will focus on first.
I think BitShares can be a freedom platform without having to brag on that concept. Like a trojan horse, BitShares could be the thing hidden in plain sight that breaks us free of our shackles. But pitching it as such will surely hinder adoption from folks who can't even see those chains.
Sitting here mulling this over, trying to come up with a response to your post, I've realized that I think I disagree with the premise of it. Presenting the how and the what to the public isn't going to prevent people who can see the forest for the trees from coming aboard. But focusing on the why isn't going to convince people that we have a clear solution, nor will it bring the apathetic on board. Profit will.
Honestly, this new wallet works great. It's clearly going to be both a business game changer and a tool for revolution. It's only a question of what comes first, and honestly, I don't care. I know they're both coming.
Time to go read the rest of this thread now. Maybe I'll come back afterwards and declare everything I just wrote idiotic after seeing community input.
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I'm a little confused at the purpose of this post.
The reason/purpose for this post imo, is that not many in the community were supportive of the stealth transfers workers proposal - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20104.0.html
It's a repeated behaviour pattern that occurs when BM wants to direct his focus to something but the community/shareholders would prefer him to work on something else.
When his currently preferred direction deviates from the community, it results in him questioning his reasons for being here, as he is more of a creative leader than an employee. If he is unsuccessful at shifting short term focus to the above proposal, then the stakes are usually raised.
The reason I am still here?
Apparently deep masochistic desires! As in being very very happy to see things done to about 80%... before a giant leap to a new thingy on mostly ideological grounds. This one is particularly nasty as it carries 45K price tag in addition to the ideologically support of not finishing the stuff started... once again.
After all it is your baby not mine...if you like it with one hand, 1 and 1/2 legs but well set on ideology...go ahead nock yourself, just do it!
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The privacy is more important in the exchange. I think this proposal is only for transferring. Can we expand this proposal to market functions?
That seems technically impossible but also why would you want that? The market statistics seem essential. If you're using a masked account that you just created for the market, and then you transfer to a stealth account after, then wouldn't it be private?
Some traders do not want to reveal their positions. That's why.
How would anyone link it to a real person?
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#btstip "bytemaster" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "Thom" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "jaran" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "lovejoy" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "Xeldal" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "speedy" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "Ben Mason" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "38PTSWarrior" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "rgcrypto" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "CLains" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "roadscape" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "merockstar" 1 FISTBUMP
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Hey Tuck Fheman, here are the results of your tips...
- bytemaster (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=bytemaster): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- Thom (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=Thom): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- jaran (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=jaran): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- lovejoy (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=lovejoy): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- Xeldal (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=Xeldal): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- speedy (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=speedy): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- Ben Mason (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=Ben Mason): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- 38PTSWarrior (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=38PTSWarrior): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- rgcrypto (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=rgcrypto): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- CLains (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=CLains): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- roadscape (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=roadscape): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- merockstar (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=merockstar): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258802/topicseen.html#msg258802
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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Why Me?
OMG, there's a choice?
************************************************************
More seriously, I'm always looking for ways to enhance my capacity to say "NO!".
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We can also think that, why not BitShares?
BitShares has great devs, cutting-edge technologies, and a nice community. But why not?
I think it's because of stability. People, especially entrepreneurs love stable and predictable solutions. Uncertainty is the worst attribute for them.
BTS has been changing again and again. And it's changing now.
We have to make a stable product first. This will happen in some near future I think, not at the moment.
When we declares a stable version, which lasts at least a quarter, people can build many businesses on our product.
Just my 2 cents...
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Hey Tuck Fheman, here are the results of your tips...- bytemaster (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=bytemaster): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- Thom (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=Thom): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- jaran (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=jaran): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- lovejoy (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=lovejoy): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- Xeldal (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=Xeldal): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- speedy (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=speedy): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- Ben Mason (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=Ben Mason): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- 38PTSWarrior (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=38PTSWarrior): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- rgcrypto (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=rgcrypto): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- CLains (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=CLains): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- roadscape (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=roadscape): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- merockstar (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=merockstar): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258802/topicseen.html#msg258802
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
Market fee of 50%? :-\
I am for sure keeping them...forever. :)
Thanks. btw
PS
Actually you can increase it to 100%!!!! and make them the first true stealth IOUs...as in the receiver will never ever be able to see them!
That is a free feature btw, I am not even asking for 45,000 Green ones.
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Market fee of 50%? :-\
I am for sure keeping them...forever. :)
Thanks. btw
PS
Actually you can increase it to 100%!!!! and make them the first true stealth IOUs...as in the receiver will never ever be able to see them!
That is a free feature btw, I am not even asking for 45,000 Green ones.
dude I haz no clue what I'm doing. what does "market fee" even mean/do?
and to stay on topic, I agree bytemaster. =)
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Man, bytemaster's going to end up with so many crap currencies in his wallet! ;D
I did give the uia the ability to be revoked. let me see if I sent you some earlier so I can take back muh fistbump. =b
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Man, bytemaster's going to end up with so many crap currencies in his wallet! ;D
I did give the uia the ability to be revoked. let me see if I sent you some earlier so I can take back muh fistbump. =b
I'm pretty sure I just paid 45 bts to collect a fistbump worth .2 bts :P worth it to find out how the tip bot works though.
you better not revoke mine though it kinda made my day in a weird way.
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Its seems to me that a decentralized exchange and financial freedom go hand-in-hand... so I think the vision is stronger than ever. Legacy exchanges that are now regulated still carry substantial risks of default. Just because a goxing hasn't occured in a while doesn't mean that is the end of it. Its almost guaranteed to happen again. The custodian model simply does not work and let's not forget the lessons of the 2008 financial crisis. Goxings occured on a very large scale but were masked by bailouts and monetary inflation. Just because losses were socialized doesn't mean that many financial institutions didn't fail. For instance, the bitcoin network could have bailed out mt gox with fake bitcoin created out of thin air (increasing the 21m limit), but that would have worsened the problem by keeping a failed, incompetent exchange alive, just as many zombie fiat banks are still alive because of fake fiat. Bitcoin was a step in the right direction and bitshares is a continuation of that vision and it more directly solves the problem.
I know its easy to get discouraged when prices aren't going anywhere but bitshares has actually outperformed other 2.0 projects (ripple, nxt, stellar) over the past 6 months since the beginning of the summer anouncements. Of course bitshares has lost value to bitcoin which makes it seem worse. We have to realize that this is a process that takes time and the dex is still only worthy of experimental amounts of money at this time. Investors and traders are not going to dump large amounts of money into the exchange all of a sudden. Over time, as users become more and more comfortable with the exchange, bugs are worked out, and the protocol becomes more solid, then users will begin to migrate towards the exchange. After all, its only been a little over a month since launch.
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you better not revoke mine though it kinda made my day in a weird way.
dude that's awesome! glad to hear it and thanks! I'm still trying to figure out what all of these settings do. hopefully I'll get it lined out soon.
#btstip "merockstar" 1 FISTBUMP
on topic : great post bytemaster! here's a FISTBUMP for derailing your thread ... again. =)
#btstip "bytemaster" 1 FISTBUMP
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Hey Tuck Fheman, here are the results of your tips...
- merockstar (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=merockstar): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- bytemaster (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=bytemaster): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258823/topicseen.html#msg258823
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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you better not revoke mine though it kinda made my day in a weird way.
dude that's awesome! glad to hear it and thanks! I'm still trying to figure out what all of these settings do. hopefully I'll get it lined out soon.
#btstip "merockstar" 1 FISTBUMP
on topic : great post bytemaster! here's a FISTBUMP for derailing your thread ... again. =)
#btstip "bytemaster" 1 FISTBUMP
Your approach makes me to want to try the tipbot [if you do not have the 'random tipping bot' up and running, that is]
I think I will bombard fuzzy [and this forum] with 1 FISTBUMPs all day long... it will be an awesome feature :) I can even make a bot to do the tipping for me... at regular random but definitely short intervals.
#btstip "bytemaster" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "bytemaster" 1 FISTBUMP
#btstip "fuzzy" 1 FISTBUMP
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I guess this is the part where I say , you can't have it both ways . You can't expect people to risk their wealth for your so-called grant freedom vision while you want to have a business license(a non freedom concept) over BitShares . （Don't get me wrong , I think the license make sense , I just didn't expect the guy who just put a lock in the path of total freedom to claim that his lifes' mission is still about all that grand talk ）
The more unrealistic idealism burden over BitShares , the more messy path we'll encounter .
I want BitShares is about delivering the function that it said it would deliver , no more , no less , that's all .
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Hey tonyk, here are the results of your tips...
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
- fuzzy: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258827/topicseen.html#msg258827
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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Your approach makes to want to try the tipbot [if you do not have the 'random tipping bot' up and running, that is]
nah I haven't messed with it again since I found out I could at least get it sort of working with OpenLedger. the next day I'm bored stiff I will do some more with it like try to get the random images going again. that was half the fun!
I think I will bombard fuzzy [and this forum] with 1 FISTBUMPs all day long.
=) that would be really cool!
#btstip "tonyk" 1 FISTBUMP
btw I've asked fuzzy if they would think about making the confirmation post go to the tippers inbox instead of the public forum because i'm going to be doing this a lot. =) maybe they should offer a discount on the withdrawal fee from the bot for anyone willing to put an advertisement for the bot in their sig to make up for the loss of the confirmation post ad if it were moved to the inbox instead.
on topic : I disagree with some of you. =)
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Hey Tuck Fheman, here are the results of your tips...
- tonyk (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=tonyk): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258830/topicseen.html#msg258830
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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Hey tonyk, here are the results of your tips...
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.0
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258833/topicseen.html#msg258833
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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Hey Tuck Fheman, here are the results of your tips...- tonyk (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=tonyk): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258830/topicseen.html#msg258830
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
good thing for this account holder named tonyk out there.
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Hey tonyk, here are the results of your tips...
- bytemaster (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=bytemaster): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.616
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.535
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258835/topicseen.html#msg258835
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
-
Hey tonyk, here are the results of your tips...
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
- fuzzy: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258827/topicseen.html#msg258827
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
-
Hey tonyk, here are the results of your tips...
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
- fuzzy: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258827/topicseen.html#msg258827
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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You have fotally tucked up this thread.
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You have fotally tucked up this thread.
will you please shut up :)
we are testing a tipping bot here, not the cry of BM over how to make the community pay 45,000 while making said community truly believing they paid for some ideology stuff!
#btstip "fuzzy" 290000 BROWNIE.PTS
opps we broke the bot.
Error #377: apparent case of over tipping....restarting...@4% done....
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You have fotally tucked up this thread.
aww haww I see what you did there. =b
#btstip "donkeypong" 1 FISTBUMP
on topic : don't be a slave. but pay your tax because all laws end with "or we will f*****g kill you!". =)
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lol...
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Hey Tuck Fheman, here are the results of your tips...
- donkeypong (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=donkeypong): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258854/topicseen.html#msg258854
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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1. Their activity is too public, easily tracked, and their profits/losses easily reported to the various taxing agencies. In this sense BitShares is contributing to enslavement.
2. Attempting to do commerce with untrusted parties is still difficult (lack of simple escrow and dispute resolution).
3. Lack of tools for building reputations, bonding users, etc
4. Lack of tools to support and encourage civil disobedience and peaceful tax protests
I also not very agree 4. Lack of tools to support and encourage civil disobedience and peaceful tax protests
I think BTS can been a tool to civil disobedience and peaceful tax protests, but the purpose is not for it
like gun , gun can kill ,also can protect , it is neutral , it is neither good nor bad ,
it is just make people have equal power no matter you is high or short , strong or weak.
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Hey tonyk, here are the results of your tips...
- fuzzy: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.535
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258851/topicseen.html#msg258851
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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Hey tonyk, here are the results of your tips...
- bytemaster: Insufficient funds for asset 1.3.658
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg258827/topicseen.html#msg258827
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
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collective business acumen
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@bytemaster , let the BitShares to love!
Kevin Kelly《Out of Control: The New Biology of Machines, Social Systems, and the Economic World》
伪命题：对区块链要不要提炼哲学思维
False proposition：do you want to extract the blockchain's philosophical thinking
互联网、区块链，进一步重申了：混乱、边缘、不确定，是宇宙存在的方式。
张朝阳认为这正是一个世界存在的状态。
“我觉得这正是一个世界存在的状态，我们应该用它共存，只有在这种不稳定、混乱、边缘和草根和去中心的状态下，伟大的东西才能产生。
其实我们人类就是这么产生的，整个宇宙就是在混乱中大爆炸，最后不断形成各种物理的规律，有了这样一个太阳系，而太阳系扔出来一块石头就是地球，所有的参数都正确了之后，产生了基于量力学微观的元素、原子和分子，以及产生了人生，都是在混乱中产生结构。
所以我们应该面对混乱、面对边缘，面对不稳定，心安理得，很平静，这正是宇宙间存在的方式。”
Vince said:
人类始终掌控机器进化的过程，但如何获得更好的进化，取得更好的效果，我们还是要向自然学习。学习到第一点就是回归简单。「我最终发现，想要得到和生命真正类似的行为，不是设法创造出真正复杂的生物，而是给简单的生物提供一个极其丰饶的变异环境。」因此，建造机器的思想，也从最初的给机器建立一个“中央大脑”思想，演进成制造许多简单而成本低廉的小机器，让他们去完成简单的任务。比如最近新片《普罗米修斯》里，走进迷宫时，宇航员放出了N多个小型探测器，它们只要发射红外波并且做到不触碰其他物体为原则，就能很好的完成任务。并不需要由一个机器去控制所有小探测器，它们只要傻傻的无休止的飞来飞去，就能完整的探索出地下迷宫地图。
以下是由布鲁克斯的移动机器人实验室开发出来的一套普适分布式控制方法： 先做简单的事。学会准确无误地做简单的事。 在简单任务的成果之上添加新的活动层级。 不要改变简单事物。 让新层级像简单层级那样准确无误地工作。 重复以上步骤，无限类推。
生物是”无我“的，你的意识是由许多混沌杂乱的细胞活动产生的结果。同一时间，你的身体在发出”我饿了，我渴了，我在写文章，我在听音乐，我想这个字的拼音这么打“等成百上千的想法，每个功能都在各司其职的发出信号，但最终汇总在一起的，对当前重要的想法，汇成了”我“。这个和佛教中无我有点像，本身是没有”我“的，觉得有”我“，是意识在活动的结果。
机器单独功能的思想建立后，一个更大机器的内部，或者机器群落之间，是什么样的形式相处，应该采取什么样的方法去推进进化，又要到自然去找答案。
http://book.douban.com/review/5582188/
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Its seems to me that a decentralized exchange and financial freedom go hand-in-hand... so I think the vision is stronger than ever. Legacy exchanges that are now regulated still carry substantial risks of default. Just because a goxing hasn't occured in a while doesn't mean that is the end of it. Its almost guaranteed to happen again. The custodian model simply does not work and let's not forget the lessons of the 2008 financial crisis. Goxings occured on a very large scale but were masked by bailouts and monetary inflation. Just because losses were socialized doesn't mean that many financial institutions didn't fail. For instance, the bitcoin network could have bailed out mt gox with fake bitcoin created out of thin air (increasing the 21m limit), but that would have worsened the problem by keeping a failed, incompetent exchange alive, just as many zombie fiat banks are still alive because of fake fiat. Bitcoin was a step in the right direction and bitshares is a continuation of that vision and it more directly solves the problem.
I know its easy to get discouraged when prices aren't going anywhere but bitshares has actually outperformed other 2.0 projects (ripple, nxt, stellar) over the past 6 months since the beginning of the summer anouncements. Of course bitshares has lost value to bitcoin which makes it seem worse. We have to realize that this is a process that takes time and the dex is still only worthy of experimental amounts of money at this time. Investors and traders are not going to dump large amounts of money into the exchange all of a sudden. Over time, as users become more and more comfortable with the exchange, bugs are worked out, and the protocol becomes more solid, then users will begin to migrate towards the exchange. After all, its only been a little over a month since launch.
Very very well put!
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I'm here because I believe the world needs a financial revolution. Bitshares is the most promising tool for revolution that I know.
Most revolutions fail because they just overthrow the old power and don't give anything better instead. People are left in a chaotic situation and usually some evil power will rise and take control. The revolution is wasted and many times people are left in a worse situation than that what made them to start the revolution in the first place.
The proper way to have a revolution is to make sure first that there exists something better that people can actually start to use when the old power is overthrown.
I believe Bitshares is a great tool that can help us replace this big mess where financial markets have gone. When the next financial crisis comes, we can start to drift away from banks and other financial institutions and replace their services with Bitshares and the whole ecosystem that has been growing around it.
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BM, many thanks for the good read! We enjoyed it and it was about time to see such a reflection :)
From our point of view, the Bitshares network needs (even) more scalable ideas to grow and get the deserved attention. Freedom, decentralized exchanges, currencies, coins, assets are nicely scalable, but the new black is elsewhere. We believe it is "securitization of things". UIA (and so on) could serve as the perfect basis for this! Agreed, other crypto coins support a couple of the required features too, but Bitshares is unique in that it offers virtually all the goodies, not just one or a few of them. Also, this is what still keeps us investing into the Bitshares network!
Now, it needs companies / legal entities / start-ups to build upon this framework. We wonder if Cryptonomix is interested in that business model, too. Cryptonomix, in the US, would be perfectly suited in our opinion. We are about to do the same in Switzerland.
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Oh year if you ask 1000 people on the street if they like their government or not, 900 of them will answer not. But they will not pay you a fraction of cent to liberate them because a) they don't actually suffer from regime in most of the world (with very rare exceptions), they suffer from completely different things; and b) you can't give to those who actually suffer from regime any freedom anyway, my libertarian friend. WHAHAHA!!!
If they have a master they suffer. If they pay taxes they suffer. Getting used to the suffering seems to help some get by and these are the people you are describing.
So you're saying mental illness prevents people from fighting for their freedom. I agree. They are mentally ill and accept slavery because of their masters programming. However it is curable.
I'm not a Libertarian. I just don't see the need for a master and I can't ignore your or anyone else's master's atrocities and I can't live my life pretending it's legitimate or needed just to get by like others living with their programmed mental illness that allows them to not only accept their slavery but stand up for and promote it as you and millions of other sheep do publicly.
Embrace teh tyranny! Slavery is much easier! Consume! Obey! Conform! =/
Well said Tuck.
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I have joined my peers in helping to re-share and encourage material like this Dan's post above. Additionally, there's an enormous amount of material on social media ready to be screened and forwarded. I intentionally avoid main-stream media and go for the more peer centric news sources. Positive and negative events and strong verbiage ( like Dan's post ) are a way of evoking powerful emotions. I believe this is a wise tool to use.
I am happy to make new connections and new friends especially to those who are awake human rights and are ready to be active.
https://www.facebook.com/james.calfee
This makes me uncomfortable. I'm concerned that my friends will protest or my connections will block me, etc.. Occasionally I need to explain my actions. I am, after all, asking a lot from people. I keep in mind that what I am saying or sharing maybe received as new and very discomforting material.
I'll spare you further explanation, here are a few important ones ( I'll join the group here ):
= I'm for making long-term governance obsolete and I want to see it happen quickly and peacefully
= I do this because I woke up to the emotions I feel when I hear human lives are being been lost
So I encourage you to find your friends and fight for a greater cause. I believe as most of us do, BitShares is positioned to be the best tool for the people. This is not enough though. The technology alone does not provide all of the motivation I need. It is the shocking material that I find that does the trick.
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You have fotally tucked up this thread.
we are testing a tipping bot here, not the cry of BM over how to make the community pay 45,000 while making said community truly believing they paid for some ideology stuff!
Question.
Would anybody here care if BM went out and got a proper job and continued BitShares as a hobby until CNX gets a gig? @bytemaster if this is the concern, would you be open to that?
Yes, development would be delayed significantly, but it ain't like the revolution is coming anytime soon- and we don't need our dude to be stressing about bills and shit, I know the tight feeling in your chest like your heart's about to explode that comes from that. IT SUCKS. I actually went to the ER because of it a few months ago only to be told "anxiety." I was shocked because up until that point I didn't really think anxiety was something that could manifest physically. I stand corrected as fuck.
I wouldn't wish it on anybody, not even the Koch brothers. Okay, I might have wished it on William Randolph Hearst, but he's dead.
That strikes me as a better option than trying to source funds from our little circle jerk of a community for the time being.
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You have fotally tucked up this thread.
we are testing a tipping bot here, not the cry of BM over how to make the community pay 45,000 while making said community truly believing they paid for some ideology stuff!
Would anybody here care if BM went out and got a proper job and continued BitShares as a hobby until CNX gets a gig? @bytemaster if this is the concern, would you be open to that?
That'd be the death knell for Bitshares.
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Here is how I described "our" WHY, inspired by spending about two years surrounded by ideas and the persistence of Daniel and many others here. It took a long time to to really stand behing them. If one changes perspectives too quickly he probably never has an own perspective. So stay persistent ;)
WHY
We are convinced that hierarchical structures in the form of states and the explicit and subtle form of violence associated is not the only possible (least evil) way to "run society". We are concerned about what technology can do in the hands of centralized power (surveillance). Yet at the same time technology has the potential to make possible a peaceful revolution providing a more effective and less violent way to coordinate interests and regulate society.
Blockchain technology has the potential to not only disrupt the financial industry but to reduce the need for governmental regulation to protect citizens.
Disrupting the financial industry needs a wider vision about what technology can do for society and in which way it can take over functions of the state because the financial industry and the wider financial and monetary system are explicitly bound to and a part of the state.
It would be fatal to ignore reality if you are serious about the purpose of freedom: In order to have a lasting effect blockchain solutions have to be designed for the masses which implies high scalability, an intuitive user experience (simplicity) and an approach that pays respect to existing regulatory constraints. We are committed to profitability and maximizing capital efficiency in order to reach our goals with the necessary endurance and capital.
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Here is how I described "our" WHY, inspired by spending about two years surrounded by ideas and the persistence of Daniel and many others here. It took a long time to to really stand behing them. If one changes perspectives too quickly he probably never has an own perspective. So stay persistent ;)
WHY
We are convinced that hierarchical structures in the form of states and the explicit and subtle form of violence associated is not the only possible (least evil) way to "run society". We are concerned about what technology can do in the hands of centralized power (surveillance). Yet at the same time technology has the potential to make possible a peaceful revolution providing a more effective and less violent way to coordinate interests and regulate society.
Blockchain technology has the potential to not only disrupt the financial industry but to reduce the need for governmental regulation to protect citizens.
Disrupting the financial industry needs a wider vision about what technology can do for society and in which way it can take over functions of the state because the financial industry and the wider financial and monetary system are explicitly bound to and a part of the state.
It would be fatal to ignore reality if you are serious about the purpose of freedom: In order to have a lasting effect blockchain solutions have to be designed for the masses which implies high scalability, an intuitive user experience (simplicity) and an approach that pays respect to existing regulatory constraints. We are committed to profitability and maximizing capital efficiency in order to reach our goals with the necessary endurance and capital.
+1000 Very well written :)
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Here is how I described "our" WHY, inspired by spending about two years surrounded by ideas and the persistence of Daniel and many others here. It took a long time to to really stand behing them. If one changes perspectives too quickly he probably never has an own perspective. So stay persistent ;)
WHY
We are convinced that hierarchical structures in the form of states and the explicit and subtle form of violence associated is not the only possible (least evil) way to "run society". We are concerned about what technology can do in the hands of centralized power (surveillance). Yet at the same time technology has the potential to make possible a peaceful revolution providing a more effective and less violent way to coordinate interests and regulate society.
Blockchain technology has the potential to not only disrupt the financial industry but to reduce the need for governmental regulation to protect citizens.
Disrupting the financial industry needs a wider vision about what technology can do for society and in which way it can take over functions of the state because the financial industry and the wider financial and monetary system are explicitly bound to and a part of the state.
It would be fatal to ignore reality if you are serious about the purpose of freedom: In order to have a lasting effect blockchain solutions have to be designed for the masses which implies high scalability, an intuitive user experience (simplicity) and an approach that pays respect to existing regulatory constraints. We are committed to profitability and maximizing capital efficiency in order to reach our goals with the necessary endurance and capital.
+1000 Very well written :)
Thanks!
Although I don't like parts of the style there is a lot to be learned from this guy (how and why to tell why-us-stories that convince others and open their rational minds for WHAT you do): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3XxIZVEXaw
I have listened to this a few times. Well worth it!
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Here is how I described "our" WHY, inspired by spending about two years surrounded by ideas and the persistence of Daniel and many others here. It took a long time to to really stand behing them. If one changes perspectives too quickly he probably never has an own perspective. So stay persistent ;)
WHY
We are convinced that hierarchical structures in the form of states and the explicit and subtle form of violence associated is not the only possible (least evil) way to "run society". We are concerned about what technology can do in the hands of centralized power (surveillance). Yet at the same time technology has the potential to make possible a peaceful revolution providing a more effective and less violent way to coordinate interests and regulate society.
Blockchain technology has the potential to not only disrupt the financial industry but to reduce the need for governmental regulation to protect citizens.
Disrupting the financial industry needs a wider vision about what technology can do for society and in which way it can take over functions of the state because the financial industry and the wider financial and monetary system are explicitly bound to and a part of the state.
It would be fatal to ignore reality if you are serious about the purpose of freedom: In order to have a lasting effect blockchain solutions have to be designed for the masses which implies high scalability, an intuitive user experience (simplicity) and an approach that pays respect to existing regulatory constraints. We are committed to profitability and maximizing capital efficiency in order to reach our goals with the necessary endurance and capital.
Well stated! +5%
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The reason I am here is that I think all POW crypto currencies are not sustainable. While I am looking for alternatives I found BTS. Its POS model is still so far the best one and answer a lot of my questions.
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Here is how I described "our" WHY, inspired by spending about two years surrounded by ideas and the persistence of Daniel and many others here. It took a long time to to really stand behing them. If one changes perspectives too quickly he probably never has an own perspective. So stay persistent ;)
WHY
We are convinced that hierarchical structures in the form of states and the explicit and subtle form of violence associated is not the only possible (least evil) way to "run society". We are concerned about what technology can do in the hands of centralized power (surveillance). Yet at the same time technology has the potential to make possible a peaceful revolution providing a more effective and less violent way to coordinate interests and regulate society.
Blockchain technology has the potential to not only disrupt the financial industry but to reduce the need for governmental regulation to protect citizens.
Disrupting the financial industry needs a wider vision about what technology can do for society and in which way it can take over functions of the state because the financial industry and the wider financial and monetary system are explicitly bound to and a part of the state.
It would be fatal to ignore reality if you are serious about the purpose of freedom: In order to have a lasting effect blockchain solutions have to be designed for the masses which implies high scalability, an intuitive user experience (simplicity) and an approach that pays respect to existing regulatory constraints. We are committed to profitability and maximizing capital efficiency in order to reach our goals with the necessary endurance and capital.
tl;dr Fuck The Man! =)
#btstip "delulo" 1 FISTBUMP
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Hey Tuck Fheman, here are the results of your tips...
- delulo (http://btstip.io/Home/Dashboard?username=delulo): has been credited 1 FISTBUMP
Curious about BtsTip? Visit us at http://btstip.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20123.msg259264/topicseen.html#msg259264
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
-
Here is how I described "our" WHY, inspired by spending about two years surrounded by ideas and the persistence of Daniel and many others here. It took a long time to to really stand behing them. If one changes perspectives too quickly he probably never has an own perspective. So stay persistent ;)
WHY
We are convinced that hierarchical structures in the form of states and the explicit and subtle form of violence associated is not the only possible (least evil) way to "run society". We are concerned about what technology can do in the hands of centralized power (surveillance). Yet at the same time technology has the potential to make possible a peaceful revolution providing a more effective and less violent way to coordinate interests and regulate society.
Blockchain technology has the potential to not only disrupt the financial industry but to reduce the need for governmental regulation to protect citizens.
Disrupting the financial industry needs a wider vision about what technology can do for society and in which way it can take over functions of the state because the financial industry and the wider financial and monetary system are explicitly bound to and a part of the state.
It would be fatal to ignore reality if you are serious about the purpose of freedom: In order to have a lasting effect blockchain solutions have to be designed for the masses which implies high scalability, an intuitive user experience (simplicity) and an approach that pays respect to existing regulatory constraints. We are committed to profitability and maximizing capital efficiency in order to reach our goals with the necessary endurance and capital.
Nice!!
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The internet and information-technology is completely alien to human civilization and we're only barely beginning to see its complete unfolding and restructuring of traditional values and cultures. Bitcoin has an essential role to play in this narrative being the seed of a native value for this alien web of interconnections. We take this achievement to heart and accelerate and generalize its impact to include complete financial independence starting with the essential exchange of value. These and associated information technologies will ensure that economic friction will approach zero as the internet matures. We are a potentially essential piece in an event of unimaginable significance. To downplay the role of both decentralization and anonymity in building an exchange is to mispercieve the exponential future of value transfers and the impossibility of traditional structures to adapt adequately. Decentralized exchange, prediction markets and equity crowd-funding and other things beside.. Imagine how Wikipedia, the Pirate Party, Anonymous, and all other internet natives are free to flourish when value flows freely. We fear our weakness now, but soon we'll fear our strength.
Sure this exchange business will be a dry day-job for the foreseeable future, and our grand vision will have to rest, but maximizing financial independence and minimizing economic friction is likely one of the most rational things to do if we evaluate our options according to effective altruism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism). We also can't build the future before the foundation is in place; creating the architecture and platform was the right thing to do. There are millions of passionate activists bleeding their heart out for various causes, but to really make a dent in the world one needs an aptitude for inspired shortcuts through space and time, like that Elon Musk who by creating PayPal was going straight to Mars.
Here is how I described "our" WHY, inspired by spending about two years surrounded by ideas and the persistence of Daniel and many others here. It took a long time to to really stand behing them. If one changes perspectives too quickly he probably never has an own perspective. So stay persistent ;)
WHY
We are convinced that hierarchical structures in the form of states and the explicit and subtle form of violence associated is not the only possible (least evil) way to "run society". We are concerned about what technology can do in the hands of centralized power (surveillance). Yet at the same time technology has the potential to make possible a peaceful revolution providing a more effective and less violent way to coordinate interests and regulate society.
Blockchain technology has the potential to not only disrupt the financial industry but to reduce the need for governmental regulation to protect citizens.
Disrupting the financial industry needs a wider vision about what technology can do for society and in which way it can take over functions of the state because the financial industry and the wider financial and monetary system are explicitly bound to and a part of the state.
It would be fatal to ignore reality if you are serious about the purpose of freedom: In order to have a lasting effect blockchain solutions have to be designed for the masses which implies high scalability, an intuitive user experience (simplicity) and an approach that pays respect to existing regulatory constraints. We are committed to profitability and maximizing capital efficiency in order to reach our goals with the necessary endurance and capital.
We have some great philosopher / writers in this community! This thread is full of amazing examples, but these two... dayum.
The two combine rather nicely into a tidy little manifesto of sorts... and reads like something from the early days of crimethinc. ;)
Which sets me to pondering.. 8) (to be continued in a different thread)
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My favorite BM
Give you all my comfort
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My favorite BM
Give you all my comfort
+5%
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Asking for a why is a very tough question to answer...
Of course some of the debates we have right now are just short term debate in order to make things work, but any motor even the most powerful ones always need a sparkle to start running.
BitShares is a big fat quick motor, the sparkle has to be consequent!!! IMO there are more important things to do than just complying to the short term objectives, but these are necessary in order to achieve the bigger picture. Sometimes we need little messages in order to draw attention and people finally get the overall message...
We are all here for various reasons, some want the bitshare to go up quick get rich and buy an island, some want to change the world where everyone will be free and happy... No matter in which direction you go, we all have to work in the same direction which is making BitShares HUGE....
The thing is that you have created one of the most powerful tool and trying to sell it... And with this tool we are trying to get people who do not want to change the world but making money! This is it...
BitShares is so much more than a tool but how to explain that is another story...
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Smartcoin + high performance exchange, in my view this is the core competence of Bitshares.
blockchain concept create many possibilities, for most widespread cryptocurrency Bitcoin maybe the No.1, for smart contract and DApp Ethereum may be the first choice, however regarding pegged digital assets and decentralized exchange, Bitshares come to user's mind firstly.
each platform should focus on something, to do everything always means nothing can be done best.
Why I am still here? it's not easy to answer. I think because I feel Bitshares still have potential to play an important role in the blockchain/cryptocurrency industry, there are things to be done and worth doing.
and I still haven't made enough money here, I should finish this task.