BitShares Forum
Other => Meta => Topic started by: Ben Mason on December 10, 2015, 08:29:13 am
-
Coming from thread https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20452.0.html
Let's discuss and review the fate of lzr1900 as toast and tuck fheman disagree with the forum ban I requested.
My reasons for requesting the ban...
If I was the regular subject of someone's vulgarity and slander, I wouldn't like it.....the way sand flies can interfere with ones enjoyment of a beautiful beach.
Potential for reputational damage both to the subject and community.
Everyone has standards for communication they expect to be adhered to.....for instance, if one were to threaten a community member, I'm sure that would result in a ban.
If there were a thousand lzr1900's, would ignoring them be an effective strategy? Or if the frequency of vulgar and slanderous comments was even higher?
Lzr1900's comments, at least in part, are an attempt to censor the subject.
I certainly do not advocate for the censorship of any kind of discussion, debate, journalism, revelation of truth, disagreement, conflicting ideas etc. I do however advocate for upholding lzr1900's ban. He has had plenty of opportunities to air his sentiments and enough is enough. Why should a valued member of the community have his engagement on the forum continually contaminated by lzr1900's vitriol?
A case of censorship should be reviewed as it is a serious restriction of freedom.....but any sane person should realise that we must all restrict our freedoms when there is the possibility of affecting others. It is what give us the potential to live in harmony. Courtesy is an exceptional means of finding the right balance. I hope this community continues to represent the higher ideal of freedom but is also able to foster a culture of respectful interactions.
Finally, he can always create another account and perhaps engage with the community more constructively.
-
I can assure you he was already banned before you requested it.
(http://i.imgur.com/PJvTSmW.png)
-
He repeatedly violated the Terms of Service that he agreed to in order to use this forum.
I think he should have been banned quite some time ago. I am against censorship of ideas or discussion or criticism. But quite often his posts were none of those. They were verbal violence against another Forum participant.
"You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law. You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless you own the copyright or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material. Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also forbidden on this forum."
-
but any sane person should realise
I'm offended by your comment.
I request that Ben Mason be banned.
-
lzr1900, my first voter. He has passion. Dogs who bark don't bite.
https://youtu.be/eoczPLLagns
-
but any sane person should realise
I'm offended by your comment.
I request that Ben Mason be banned.
You've lifted part of a non personal comment that is absent any vulgarity or slander and are judging me more harshly than lzr1900.....given the number of his comments? Your singular point being that anyone can be offended by anything, therefore we cannot set and enforce any standards for communication. I think this is a lazy argument. First, the argument throws any victim of abuse under the proverbial bus. Second, its perfectly possible to apply reason to each situation, allow for extenuating circumstances or reconciliation. Third, I hope that there exists a majority who's ideas of communication have a great deal of commonality, grounded in freedom & courtesy.....there's a great deal of evidence of that being the case in the pages of this forum!
-
good, one less annoying person to worry about around here.
-
Not a matter of censorship, just cleaning up the conversation and keeping things civil. He was just posting hateful profanity and blindly venting his frustrations. It had been months since he'd added any value to the conversation. If he'd said anything useful (even if I'd disagreed with it), then I also would have argued to keep him on. That was not the case.
He'll be back, but for now, good riddance.
-
He repeatedly violated the Terms of Service that he agreed to in order to use this forum.
I think he should have been banned quite some time ago. I am against censorship of ideas or discussion or criticism. But quite often his posts were none of those. They were verbal violence against another Forum participant.
"You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law. You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless you own the copyright or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material. Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also forbidden on this forum."
+5%
I used to moderate a popular JTV channel...so many abusive and threatening people complaining about "censorship". I always told them that they are free to say what they want on their own channel. Don't come to my channel and expect to piss on me and my guests!!
-
"But teh rulez!"
such anarchy.
Hey, did you guys vote for stealth transactions?
-
"But teh rulez!"
such anarchy.
Hey, did you guys vote for stealth transactions?
What is your understanding of "anarachy"?
-
Censorship is a sign of weakness
No. It is just a common sense. If a community is pissed off by behavior of one member, ban the bastard. What's a problem with this? You don't cut his head, you just suggest to find another place to piss people off. I was banned from about 100 different forums, for different reasons, and look, I feel ok. I have thousands more ways to express my freedom of speech.
Disclosure: I was never personally pissed by the banned guy. I don't know him, and don't really care if he is banned or not. If mods are so kind, go ahead and unban him. :)
-
"But teh rulez!"
such anarchy.
Hey, did you guys vote for stealth transactions?
What is your understanding of "anarachy"?
No rulers.
Stop picking my jokes apart man. :P
You know the point I'm making, stop being so "PC bro".
I can't believe you dudes started a whole new thread to do this in or even that you're doing it in the first place, on a fucking cryptocurrency forum of all places.
Grow a set, all of you.
BTW, you spelled anarchy wrong. :P
-
so many abusive and threatening people complaining about "censorship"
Yeah @toast stawp being so abusive! :P
-
If a community is pissed off by behavior of one member, ban the bastard.
Well I don't think "the community" had any say, just a few individuals, but I'm sure you can rouse up some support for your comment or at least enough to make it seem legit. ;)
-
but any sane person should realise
I'm offended by your comment.
I request that Ben Mason be banned.
You've lifted part of a non personal comment that is absent any vulgarity or slander and are judging me more harshly than lzr1900.....given the number of his comments? Your singular point being that anyone can be offended by anything, therefore we cannot set and enforce any standards for communication. I think this is a lazy argument. First, the argument throws any victim of abuse under the proverbial bus. Second, its perfectly possible to apply reason to each situation, allow for extenuating circumstances or reconciliation. Third, I hope that there exists a majority who's ideas of communication have a great deal of commonality, grounded in freedom & courtesy.....there's a great deal of evidence of that being the case in the pages of this forum!
Big fucking deal! Like that really matters.
To put this in the nicest terms possible: have you people completely lost your fucking minds?
how can you be so fucking stupid?!
Pull your fucking heads out of your ass
please try to know something before you post this fucking shit
that's just fucking disgusting.
Keep your fucking money I'm out.
I have no fucking idea what is going on.
I'll stop there, maybe you guys get my point, maybe not. BTW, none of the above were banned. And I'd also like to point out that just as many people were asking why he was banned as were calling for his ban. So, "community" bitches! lmao
-
I move to ban @CRAPCOIN from the forum. It's crapping on every thread.
-
I move to ban @CRAPCOIN from the forum. It's crapping on every thread.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/3315451.jpg)
-
I move to ban @CRAPCOIN from the forum. It's crapping on every thread.
Hey, while we're at it... why not? +5%
-
I move to ban @CRAPCOIN from the forum. It's crapping on every thread.
Hey, while we're at it... why not? +5%
For giving away a fun UIA using the communities tipbot? Why all of the hate? I thought this community was all about user issued assets and sharing but as soon as someone does that immediate ban request come for posting 5 or 6 free giveaways to people who used the word CRAPCOIN? Seriously? Don't you guys have better things to do than banning people using your platforms?
-
(http://i.imgur.com/O3DHIA5.gif)
I think the tolerance level of this community is quite high, and you have to work extra hard to get on the ban list.
-
I think the tolerance level of this community is quite high, and you have to work extra hard to get on the ban list.
Well in that case I apologize for creating a UIA on BitShares and sharing it with your community. I simply don't understand the reasoning behind this. Are you guys taking offense to the name of the UIA? It was created because many of you here refer to most UIA's as CRAPCOIN so I capitalized on that words popularity among your forum and thought it was funny.
You guys have ORGASMS and other funny named UIA's. Are you banning those people too? Are you three on the banning people who create UIA's committee or something? Is there anyone else in this community that can override you three guys who have no sense of humor and abuse your mod powers on a whim?
Do I get a refund of my 5,000 BTS for thinking this community was mature enough to handle a fun UIA but instead I get banned for passing them out freely?
-
@fav before you unwisely ban me who are the other mods that I can contact to overrule your decision? This is not fair at all and outright unfriendly and another mod should be able to give input before you alone make a decision like this. All I did was give a UIA away! Why does that deserve a ban? Is there anyone on this forum that can stop this guy from banning me for no good reason?!
-
@fav before you unwisely ban me who are the other mods that I can contact to overrule your decision? This is not fair at all and outright unfriendly and another mod should be able to give input before you alone make a decision like this. All I did was give a UIA away! Why does that deserve a ban? Is there anyone on this forum that can stop this guy from banning me for no good reason?!
I did not talk about you. currently, we only ban on personal attacks, and only after some warnings.
edit: unless you're a spam bot ofc
-
but any sane person should realise
I'm offended by your comment.
I request that Ben Mason be banned.
You've lifted part of a non personal comment that is absent any vulgarity or slander and are judging me more harshly than lzr1900.....given the number of his comments? Your singular point being that anyone can be offended by anything, therefore we cannot set and enforce any standards for communication. I think this is a lazy argument. First, the argument throws any victim of abuse under the proverbial bus. Second, its perfectly possible to apply reason to each situation, allow for extenuating circumstances or reconciliation. Third, I hope that there exists a majority who's ideas of communication have a great deal of commonality, grounded in freedom & courtesy.....there's a great deal of evidence of that being the case in the pages of this forum!
Big fucking deal! Like that really matters.
To put this in the nicest terms possible: have you people completely lost your fucking minds?
how can you be so fucking stupid?!
Pull your fucking heads out of your ass
please try to know something before you post this fucking shit
that's just fucking disgusting.
Keep your fucking money I'm out.
I have no fucking idea what is going on.
I'll stop there, maybe you guys get my point, maybe not. BTW, none of the above were banned. And I'd also like to point out that just as many people were asking why he was banned as were calling for his ban. So, "community" bitches! lmao
None of these are examples of repeated personal attack It's like you don't want to see the difference??
I think I'll leave the discussion now. I continue to believe that personal attackers should be warned and encouraged to find other ways to express themselves, then banned if they persist. I don't believe it harms the ideal of freedom, but enhances it. Many people find it difficult to express themselves properly in an environment in which they may be personally attacked. I'd rather 100 attackers were silenced than one victim.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
-
@fav before you unwisely ban me who are the other mods that I can contact to overrule your decision? This is not fair at all and outright unfriendly and another mod should be able to give input before you alone make a decision like this. All I did was give a UIA away! Why does that deserve a ban? Is there anyone on this forum that can stop this guy from banning me for no good reason?!
I did not talk about you. currently, we only ban on personal attacks, and only after some warnings.
edit: unless you're a spam bot ofc
OIC. So who was your ban image directed at if not me? If I'm mistaken I'm sorry, but it sure appeared that you were threatening to ban me because those other two asked me to be banned for some reason. I did not attack anyone, I gave people a free user issued asset. Please explain what is going on here.
-
None of these are examples of repeated personal attack It's like you don't want to see the difference??
The only difference I see is that you're far more offended than I am by other peoples words.
I get that you don't like what he said, repeatedly, but did Stan ever complain about what he said?
I never saw Stan say a word. Stan appeared to handle it like a man ... a really strong man that's secure in his own skin.
Personally I don't think Stan needed anyone to come to his defense and I'm fairly certain Stan has the ability to ban someone himself.
Why did you two, not the Community, feel the need to ban the guy when Stan apparently had no issues with what was said?
Stan's obviously not a liar and anyone thinking that is dead wrong. He may play the salesman part at times, but isn't that his job?!
It's like me calling Stan an elephant. He's not an elephant and it's just a word with letters and sounds that you make when you move your mouth. Nothing more.
You chose to get offended, for who? For Stan? No for your own sake it appears.
Stan didn't need any defense, that I can see. He moved on with his life and ignored the asinine comment, as you should have in my opinion.
And before any ban request come for me, which obviously is all the rage today, I'm not "attacking" you. I'm expressing my own opinion and you can do with it whatever you like.
You should probably ignore it though, as you should have that user, but you appear to want to be offended and make it into some political statement that agrees with your current world view.
So be it. That's just my opinion and I frankly don't give a damn what you think about it. I'm just freely expressing myself in a rebuttal to what I think was an overreaction.
I think I'll leave the discussion now. I continue to believe that personal attackers should be warned and encouraged to find other ways to express themselves, then banned if they persist. I don't believe it harms the ideal of freedom, but enhances it. Many people find it difficult to express themselves properly in an environment in which they may be personally attacked. I'd rather 100 attackers were silenced than one victim.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
How difficult do you think people find it to express themselves on a forum where they see people getting banned for expressing their opinion or apparently giving out a token?
I'd rather have 100 attackers voicing their discontent than watching two people ban everyone they disagree with personally. I get enough of that from my government thank you very much.
I believe people are less afraid of others ridiculous opinions than they are of being banned for speaking their minds, but that's probably just me.
You on the other hand appeared to have put a lot of weight behind that guys opinion, so much so that you got awful offended and like a fascist asked for him to be banned for speaking his mind.
"As long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone".
^^^ That's what you guys have said and Ben, that's fascism!
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/11-overflow/20151112_fascist_0.jpg)
Wake up brother, you've gone to the dark side trying to protect someone who didn't need to be protected.
Disclaimer: These are simply my thoughts. They probably differ from yours and that's cool! I love differing opinions especially one's that prove me wrong. So go ahead Ben, prove me wrong so I can learn!
-
well said, Tuck Fheman
-
Why did you two, not the Community, feel the need to ban the guy when Stan apparently had no issues with what was said?
It was my decision to ban him and I already communicated that earlier in this thread.
@CRAPCOIN in case you're not trying to troll my time: everyone is free to demand anything they wish, doesn't mean it'll become reality. as long as you play by the rules there's no reason to get banned.
However, if the tipbot is used to bump up old and obsolete threads to derail the whole forum there's only one logical consequence: the medium will be stopped.
If I get the time I'll collect a list of bans from this year. I think there are probably 2 regular user bans other than spambots, which is a very good number in my opinion.
-
None of these are examples of repeated personal attack It's like you don't want to see the difference??
The only difference I see is that you're far more offended than I am by other peoples words.
I get that you don't like what he said, repeatedly, but did Stan ever complain about what he said?
I never saw Stan say a word. Stan appeared to handle it like a man ... a really strong man that's secure in his own skin.
Personally I don't think Stan needed anyone to come to his defense and I'm fairly certain Stan has the ability to ban someone himself.
Why did you two, not the Community, feel the need to ban the guy when Stan apparently had no issues with what was said?
Stan's obviously not a liar and anyone thinking that is dead wrong. He may play the salesman part at times, but isn't that his job?!
It's like me calling Stan an elephant. He's not an elephant and it's just a word with letters and sounds that you make when you move your mouth. Nothing more.
You chose to get offended, for who? For Stan? No for your own sake it appears.
Stan didn't need any defense, that I can see. He moved on with his life and ignored the asinine comment, as you should have in my opinion.
And before any ban request come for me, which obviously is all the rage today, I'm not "attacking" you. I'm expressing my own opinion and you can do with it whatever you like.
You should probably ignore it though, as you should have that user, but you appear to want to be offended and make it into some political statement that agrees with your current world view.
So be it. That's just my opinion and I frankly don't give a damn what you think about it. I'm just freely expressing myself in a rebuttal to what I think was an overreaction.
I think I'll leave the discussion now. I continue to believe that personal attackers should be warned and encouraged to find other ways to express themselves, then banned if they persist. I don't believe it harms the ideal of freedom, but enhances it. Many people find it difficult to express themselves properly in an environment in which they may be personally attacked. I'd rather 100 attackers were silenced than one victim.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
How difficult do you think people find it to express themselves on a forum where they see people getting banned for expressing their opinion or apparently giving out a token?
I'd rather have 100 attackers voicing their discontent than watching two people ban everyone they disagree with personally. I get enough of that from my government thank you very much.
I believe people are less afraid of others ridiculous opinions than they are of being banned for speaking their minds, but that's probably just me.
You on the other hand appeared to have put a lot of weight behind that guys opinion, so much so that you got awful offended and like a fascist asked for him to be banned for speaking his mind.
"As long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone".
^^^ That's what you guys have said and Ben, that's fascism!
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/11-overflow/20151112_fascist_0.jpg)
Wake up brother, you've gone to the dark side trying to protect someone who didn't need to be protected.
Disclaimer: These are simply my thoughts. They probably differ from yours and that's cool! I love differing opinions especially one's that prove me wrong. So go ahead Ben, prove me wrong so I can learn!
Seeing as you've called me a Facist for my beliefs (i do hope you comprehend the irony here,) by all means, let's continue the discussion. I will say that i'm not interested in proving anybody wrong. I'm interested to analyze my own view and wanted to acknowledge that others (at least you and Toast) had a different opinion. So far i've not heard anything that dissuades me from my belief that the censorship of repeat personal attackers is appropriate.
I accept that Stan has not asked for anyone's help or support and he may be completely comfortable with lzr1900's comments. But do you know that for a fact? Do you know that everyone who may ever come under personal attack is comfortable with it in the future? My offense comes from the principal that everyone is entitled to civility and that disagreements can be handled with respect. Many disagreements are the result of miscommunication after all......and let's face it, once personal attacks begin, disagreements can become infinitely harder to resolve.
If you can provide a well reasoned argument for why a culture of respect should not come to the defense of someone under personal attack (who may not be as easily able to shrug them off as you say Stan is,) then you'll definitely increase the chance of changing my opinion. You may very well be impossible to insult, offend or otherwise verbally harm tuck, for that i commend you, but not everyone is as robust as you and possibly Stan.
You have not yet explained how you would deal with 100 lzr1900's......I guess just keep ignoring until you're reading 1 in every 100 posts?
If you were in a meeting with a group of people (in person) and one of your colleagues kept shouting 'Liar fucker!' every time you were attempting to make a point, what would you or the others present do?
The point is that there are a billion examples where individuals self limit their freedom in order to fit social norms that are partly in place to enable large groups of people to live together in relative harmony. For the most part, those social norms like non aggression towards others are desirable. Just because communities now exist online and people are physically removed from the traditional consequences of breaking social norms, it does not mean they have any less value when observed or cause any less harm when flouted.
-
Seeing as you've called me a Facist for my beliefs (i do hope you comprehend the irony here,) by all means, let's continue the discussion.
No, please explain the irony in me "calling you a fascist" (actually I said "like a fascist" and that the actions taken against that user was "fascism") and the fascist acts taken against that user by banning them for speaking their mind.
I clearly see the difference, but it does not appear that you do. I did not call for you to be banned for acting like a fascist.
Speak and act like a fascist all you want and I may point it out when you do it, but I won't call for you to be banned, I'll put you on ignore.
I will say that i'm not interested in proving anybody wrong.
So far you are succeeding. ;)
I'm interested to analyze my own view and wanted to acknowledge that others (at least you and Toast) had a different opinion.
Thank you, although our opinions went completely ignored, like that user should have been. Why wasn't the same judgement used on him?
So far i've not heard anything that dissuades me from my belief that the censorship of repeat personal attackers is appropriate.
:-\
I accept that Stan has not asked for anyone's help or support and he may be completely comfortable with lzr1900's comments. But do you know that for a fact?
Nope. But you just opened up another can of worms that I don't feel like getting into at 8AM. ;)
Do you know that everyone who may ever come under personal attack is comfortable with it in the future?
Nope. And it's none of my business.
No one assigned me as "feeling protector" (and I would turn down the job if they did) and no one asked me to defend them from any perceived "personal attacks" ... in this case words, just words.
Words from a person few here respect the opinion of apparently, so why would anyone bother? You and fav can answer that question best I guess.
I don't think Stan said anything because he is a grown ass man and he can defend himself on his own if he felt the need. Apparently he didn't feel the need and neither would I.
Stan also has the ability to ban anyone he wants (my assumption), yet he didn't. Or maybe fav just beat him to the punch, but I doubt it. ;)
My offense comes from the principal that everyone is entitled to civility and that disagreements can be handled with respect.
O RLY? ;)
Many disagreements are the result of miscommunication after all......and let's face it, once personal attacks begin, disagreements can become infinitely harder to resolve.
Not really, just put them on ignore ... resolved! ;)
If you can provide a well reasoned argument for why a culture of respect should not come to the defense of someone under personal attack (who may not be as easily able to shrug them off as you say Stan is,) then you'll definitely increase the chance of changing my opinion.
I thought I did in my last post, so I'm going to give up after this one. :-\
You may very well be impossible to insult, offend or otherwise verbally harm tuck, for that i commend you, but not everyone is as robust as you and possibly Stan.
kk
You have not yet explained how you would deal with 100 lzr1900's......I guess just keep ignoring until you're reading 1 in every 100 posts?
Actually I did and you just outlined it in this comment, except you apparently don't understand what putting someone on "ignore" means.
It means you'll never have to read what they say again, much like what will happen with you and I after I finish this post. ;)
If you were in a meeting with a group of people (in person) and one of your colleagues kept shouting 'Liar fucker!' every time you were attempting to make a point, what would you or the others present do?
That's not what's happening here Ben and has nothing to do with what happened. This is a forum with an ignore function.
It's 8AM and I've grown tired of picking your arguments apart, so right now as far as I'm concerned you're being the guy you describe above ... look how I'm handling it. ;)
I think I know how you would handle it though. You'd call someone else, probably a cop, to come beat the shit out of them and put them in a cage, amirite?
The point is that there are a billion examples where individuals self limit their freedom in order to fit social norms that are partly in place to enable large groups of people to live together in relative harmony. For the most part, those social norms like non aggression towards others are desirable. Just because communities now exist online and people are physically removed from the traditional consequences of breaking social norms, it does not mean they have any less value when observed or cause any less harm when flouted.
And here's where I put you on ignore and never have to see you act in a fascist manner again ... problem solved and no harm done to you! ;)
You are free to continue speaking your mind, I just don't have to read it any longer and if 100 of you pop up, I don't have to read them either. :)
-
Go tuck. You de man.
-
The "offending" post itself was a sign of weakness
I think we should lift the ban, the point has been made..
-
“The Right To Swing Your Fist Ends Where My Nose Begins”
We are in a bar, a customer is constanly punching people in the nose, he is thrown out of the bar and some people are complaining that he should be left alone because he had every right to swing his fists! OMG!
-
“The Right To Swing Your Fist Ends Where My Nose Begins”
We are in a bar, a customer is constanly punching people in the nose, he is thrown out of the bar and some people are complaining that he should be left alone because he had every right to swing his fists! OMG!
Physical violence analogies don't apply to a forum post that can be simply ignored IMHO.
-
“The Right To Swing Your Fist Ends Where My Nose Begins”
We are in a bar, a customer is constanly punching people in the nose, he is thrown out of the bar and some people are complaining that he should be left alone because he had every right to swing his fists! OMG!
Physical violence analogies don't apply to a forum post that can be simply ignored IMHO.
You're in a bar. A drunk pukes all over the floor, causing a nasty smelling puddle. You are free to look the other way, and put a clothes pin on your nose.
-
“The Right To Swing Your Fist Ends Where My Nose Begins”
We are in a bar, a customer is constanly punching people in the nose, he is thrown out of the bar and some people are complaining that he should be left alone because he had every right to swing his fists! OMG!
Physical violence analogies don't apply to a forum post that can be simply ignored IMHO.
There is no difference between psychological or physical violence, it's the same to me.
In order to ignore a user you will first have to suffer/endure the psychological violence of his posts.
"Dodge the punches/bullets/insults!" is not a valid argument in my opinion.
If we don't know where other people's noses start, it could be more civil imo to keep a safe distance than to demand "infinite rights and space" to swing our fists.
-
You're in a bar. A drunk pukes all over the floor, causing a nasty smelling puddle. You are free to look the other way, and put a clothes pin on your nose.
But if the barkeep wants repeat business and a good clientele they may consider 86'ing people who repeatedly stink up the place.
This is a community, it has some standards, so far I think we are extremely tolerant.
However, if the tipbot is used to bump up old and obsolete threads to derail the whole forum there's only one logical consequence: the medium will be stopped.
Spot on. +5%
There is no difference between psychological or physical violence, it's the same to me.
In order to ignore a user you will first have to suffer/endure the psychological violence of his posts.
"Dodge the punches/bullets/insults!" is not a valid argument in my opinion.
If we don't know where other people's noses start, it could be more civil imo to keep a safe distance than to demand "infinite rights and space" to swing our fists.
Well said. +5%
Well in that case I apologize for creating a UIA on BitShares and sharing it with your community. I simply don't understand the reasoning behind this. Are you guys taking offense to the name of the UIA? It was created because many of you here refer to most UIA's as CRAPCOIN so I capitalized on that words popularity among your forum and thought it was funny.
You guys have ORGASMS and other funny named UIA's. Are you banning those people too? Are you three on the banning people who create UIA's committee or something? Is there anyone else in this community that can override you three guys who have no sense of humor and abuse your mod powers on a whim?
Do I get a refund of my 5,000 BTS for thinking this community was mature enough to handle a fun UIA but instead I get banned for passing them out freely?
I'm not a mod, FYI, but I think your CRAPCOIN UIA is crap, and I think the ORGASMS UIA is crude, and potentially off putting to a demographic we should be welcoming, in the same way. There's a lot of adult, dare I say, professional work to be done here without having to navigate through a bunch of masturbatory, adolescent, toys on the floor.
If you figure out how to destroy CRAPCOIN so it is never issued again, I will send you 5,000 BTS for your trouble, plus a tip.
Some day the forum will be able to separate the play area from the people who are working, and we won't have to bother to even regulate it... we can just choose to see relevant, work related items, and use our precious little time wisely.
And to clarify, my suggestion to ban you "while we're at it" was meant to be 51% joking.
-
There is no difference between psychological or physical violence, it's the same to me.
I can show you some pictures of people who got beat down vs people who were yelled at and some images of people who read mean words on a forum.
Would that help you to discern the difference?
TMI - I got beat pretty good as a kid and I can tell you from experience, I would much rather have just read some pissed off forum post from the ahole who beat me on a regular basis.
There is a big difference between hurt feelings and being punched in the face, whipped with a belt or clothes hanger or any other form of physical violence that does physical and psychological damage.
In order to ignore a user you will first have to suffer/endure the psychological violence of his posts.
See above and also "fucking liar" (or whatever it was) is two whole words. I don't think many people would be psychologically damaged, especially if they are a mature adult.
"Dodge the punches/bullets/insults!" is not a valid argument in my opinion.
Well, it is when you separate physical violence from two words that form some ahole's opinion on a forum. They're completely different.
For example. Go to war and get shot at, watch some friends get blown to pieces, then come back and let me tell you about a war.
Oh wait, I just told you about a war. Can you feel/see the difference? You probably read the above line and it had no affect whatsoever on you, physically or psychologically.
There is a big difference.
If we don't know where other people's noses start, it could be more civil imo to keep a safe distance than to demand "infinite rights and space" to swing our fists.
See above and use ignore on a forum. Banning people for having a differing opinion is baaaad, just baaaaad mkay.
But, that's just my opinion and as someone else said, this isn't my forum.
You guys/gals take whatever actions you want, shut down all speech that differs from yours and shut yourselves into your little safe spaces.
Hey, how about we create a Safe Space area on the forum where you can ban everyone who doesn't think like you?!
Or create the rest of us a part of the forum where we can speak our minds and use our own judgement without having a nanny come save us from teh mean words!
Hey how about two separate forums, like a kiddies table, where there's a caretaker combing through all messages removing any bad words or speech that might cause some harm before it ever gets posted.
Man that would be awesome! I can smell the fascism through my computer screen already! I'm sure your local government would be more than willing to supply some tools and/or personnel to assist as well.
Oh happy days!
:-\
-
However, if the tipbot is used to bump up old and obsolete threads to derail the whole forum there's only one logical consequence: the medium will be stopped.
There was no tipbot.
That's just several of you guys jumping to conclusions, again, and reacting with no evidence outside of your own minimal thought process.
As you can see from the quotes selected from those threads, the users quoted said the word "CRAPCOIN" and they were awarded some CRAPCOIN, nothing more.
If you figure out how to destroy CRAPCOIN so it is never issued again, I will send you 5,000 BTS for your trouble, plus a tip.
How big of a tip? I was going to make a ton off of CRAPCOIN, so let's make a deal! ;)
Some day the forum will be able to separate the play area from the people who are working, and we won't have to bother to even regulate it... we can just choose to see relevant, work related items, and use our precious little time wisely.
Yet you're choosing to spend this much time responding not to the guy who said "fucking liar", but the people defending his right to say "fucking liar", instead of doing work.
Seriously?
No offense man, but go back to work if that's what you want to do. You are choosing to be upset over something so trivial. Move on, get over it, be productive and stop wasting your time with this silly stuff, take your own advice! ;)
-
Go tuck. You de man.
I am Tuck's disappoint.
Man you gave up so easily. I would never ignore you, I respect your differing opinion no matter how much I vehemently disagree with it!
I just needed to make a point.
Anyway, I'm glad we had our talk and now we can be friends.
Good times are ahead my friend, cheer up!
Life is too short to dwell on silly words used by silly people when there is so much work to be done, just ask Stan! ;)
You guys put me on ignore and move on with your lives and get shit dun while I continue protecting the forum from misguided bans. ;)
-
Go tuck. You de man.
I am Tuck's disappoint.
Man you gave up so easily. I would never ignore you, I respect your differing opinion no matter how much I vehemently disagree with it!
I just needed to make a point.
Anyway, I'm glad we had our talk and now we can be friends.
Good times are ahead my friend, cheer up!
Life is too short to dwell on silly words used by silly people when there is so much work to be done, just ask Stan! ;)
You guys put me on ignore and move on with your lives and get shit dun while I continue protecting the forum from misguided bans. ;)
It's sometimes difficult for me to work out when you are being sincere. But I think you are here so.....absolutely no hard feelings! You've helped me think through this difficult subject matter. I respect your passionate defence of the ideal of freedom of expression and belief that there are adequate tools available to mitigate any unwanted contact within the forum. I retain my conviction that verbal violence is unnecessary and that a more proactive countermeasure is useful. There are great similarities between physical and online interactions.....I could never sit passively while someone is bullied for instance. I still believe in a culture of respect. I absolutely do not condone the censorship of journalism, criticism, disagreement, humour, non personal rudeness etc.
I hope lzr1900 can apologise to Stan or at the very least, offer to stop attacking him (wether Stan cares or not) and comes back in order to participate civilly and productively. I believe it's on him if he values this community enough.
Consider the shit, fuck, cock, balls hatchet buried good buddy!
-
It's sometimes difficult for me to work out when you are being sincere. But I think you are here so.....absolutely no hard feelings! You've helped me think through this difficult subject matter. I respect your passionate defence of the ideal of freedom of expression and belief that there are adequate tools available to mitigate any unwanted contact within the forum. I retain my conviction that verbal violence is unnecessary and that a more proactive countermeasure is useful.
I agree 100% and yes I'm being sincere. I like to debate as much as I like the ladies ... and "I do like the ladies...I like em...and they like-a me"! (shameless Kung Pow reference) ;)
I'm not afraid to be wrong, because that's how I learn and that's why I put my heart out in the open hoping someone will teach me something I don't know, so I can become a better human being. :)
There are great similarities between physical and online interactions.....I could never sit passively while someone is bullied for instance. I still believe in a culture of respect. I absolutely do not condone the censorship of journalism, criticism, disagreement, humour, non personal rudeness etc.
I agree with most of the above.
I hope lzr1900 can apologise to Stan or at the very least, offer to stop attacking him (wether Stan cares or not) and comes back in order to participate civilly and productively. I believe it's on him if he values this community enough.
If they are man/woman enough, they will, otherwise they're worth ignoring.
Consider the shit, fuck, cock, balls hatchet buried good buddy!
Cool!
I didn't mean to come across as attacking you personally, I merely wanted to attack the points you were representing that I disagree with in this instance because ... I like debating. ;)
https://youtu.be/FgAGkxAtzIg
-
I can show you some pictures of people who got beat down vs people who were yelled at and some images of people who read mean words on a forum.
Would that help you to discern the difference?
TMI - I got beat pretty good as a kid and I can tell you from experience, I would much rather have just read some pissed off forum post from the ahole who beat me on a regular basis.
There is a big difference between hurt feelings and being punched in the face, whipped with a belt or clothes hanger or any other form of physical violence that does physical and psychological damage.
Is this some kind of contest? are we supposed to find the greater evil and ignore everything else? also, by what criteria can we judge the severity of violence, especially in pictures? Blunt internal trauma is supposed to get a lower "score" because we can't see it? Are we supposed to ignore all modern day violence because of the brutal severity violence had at middle ages?
See above and also "fucking liar" (or whatever it was) is two whole words. I don't think many people would be psychologically damaged, especially if they are a mature adult.
I don't think many people would be physically damaged if slapped in the cheeck either, but I don't see random people at puplic places slapping each other.
See above and use ignore on a forum. Banning people for having a differing opinion Insulting is baaaad, just baaaaad mkay.
But, that's just my opinion and as someone else said, this isn't my forum.
You guys/gals take whatever actions you want, shut down all speech that differs from yours and shut yourselves into your little safe spaces.
Hey, how about we create a Safe Space area on the forum where you can ban everyone who doesn't think like you?!
Or create the rest of us a part of the forum where we can speak our minds and use our own judgement without having a nanny come save us from teh mean words!
Hey how about two separate forums, like a kiddies table, where there's a caretaker combing through all messages removing any bad words or speech that might cause some harm before it ever gets posted.
Man that would be awesome! I can smell the fascism through my computer screen already! I'm sure your local government would be more than willing to supply some tools and/or personnel to assist as well.
Oh happy days!
^^^I fixed it for you.
The other side of the coin....
Every week I go to a church/"holy place" of a religion and yell "You are all idiots and goat F@ck#rs!" last week someone recognised me at the entrance and throwed me out of the church. All this "unjust" censorship from those goat f@ck#rs has to stop!
-
Every week I go to a church/"holy place" of a religion and yell "You are all idiots and goat F@ck#rs!" last week someone recognised me at the entrance and throwed me out of the church. All this "unjust" censorship from those goat f@ck#rs has to stop!
Damn dude, you're one messed up individual. I'm sorry I got dragged into a conversation with someone like you. @fav can we ban this guy before he starts calling us all ...
goat f@ck#rs
... for no reason?
This goes against my hive mind rationale and I'm very busy-like right now. I don't have time to respond to these childish post ... yet I can't resist because I see others responding to this thread and I need to get my SJ points!
BTW, I'm really glad I can "mention" my great leader in every single post I make so that it can be properly sanitized. Great use of a great tool for our great leader to do his great work!
-
I sympathiizes with TheFheman's general sentiment but I also understand when an account is banned because of continious personal attacks that are directed at people that are part of the conversation.
@Tuck Fheman are you making a difference when someone says fuck or when someone says fuck off to someone that is part of the (greater) conversation?
...In the end it boils down to whether you assume any order at all or not. If you don't assume any order you don't associate any normative / judgemental meaning with words (like fuck). Hmmmm :)
-
@Tuck Fheman are you making a difference when someone says fuck or when someone says fuck off to someone that is part of the (greater) conversation?
I just want our great leader @fav to be happy! Whatever he says goes. I'm done with thinking for myself and will rely on fav to tell me how I can talk, what I can name my UIA's I pay for out of my own pocket, who I can give them to, how I give them, what threads I can respond to and anything else is all up to our great leader from now on.
Hive Mind 4evah!
-
Tuck, I'm predominately unconcerned with the fate of CRAPCOIN, and as it seems impossible to destroy it for all time, there it is. I consulted with the technical department, and it seems you have irreversably tainted the pristine bts blockchain with this crap. Don't worry though I still think fistbump has a bright future. The offer is and is not valid, because it is not feasible... as I don't desire to have anything to do with that asset personally. The offer was only intended for YOU doing the dirty work of destroying CRAPCOIN, but alas.
To be honest, my motivation for walking into the crossfire here is that I sometimes get in a mood to condense a gathering distaste, and focus it on the nearest offending target. This just so happened to be CRAPCOIN. So in a way I would like to thank you for helping me to further crystallize my feelings on something that has so far remained unarticulated.
In a thread where accusations of this and that fascist censorship, discussions of this or that person's discomfort with incendiary or hurtful language, the ban itself, how it was carried out...(sigh) Forgive my post-traumatic stress for being unable to turn away from the train wreck of human spectacle, and my loathing for the process and it's unfolding, even while perversely appreciating the value it must have for the participants, and the community, in some way. It's just that I have endured seemingly endless anarcho righteous intellectual ego validating rituals and have grown weary of the culture. From among the privileged, righteous chip on the shoulder predominately male crusty-punk protesters trying to organize and do battle with the state, to years later among this decentralized, airy, fiery, exceedingly male technorati in one of the geekiest anarcho libertarian smartchain scenes, with extremely promising innovations hewn from cutting edge information technology, visionary in nature...and, unfortunately, a pre-pubescent fascination with crap, orgasms, sperm, "circle jerks" and so on. Now that anyone can have their own UIA, all the kids want to have their junk on display like obscene clown trophies.
There is a notable habit among some of defending any kind of potentially offensive, threatening, slanderous, behavior in the name of free speech. But I ask you all, what good is your free speech when the only ones left to talk with you are telling poop jokes?
Thinking back, at least the teen and twenty something crusty punk anarchists realized that they really ought to consider being inclusive enough to create an environment where other people felt, at a minimum, relatively safe to join and share, if not actually ATTRACTED to partake and collaborate. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was still a shit show, and endless face to face consensus decision making processes even under the best circumstance reveals a terrible truth about the desire for people to display their insignificant egos above all else.
What this all boils down to is the kind of environment we want to create here in our community. I value the qualities of inclusion and non aggression above an anything goes, lowest common denominator attitude. By and large I hope to encourage more constructive and collaborative conversations here through my own participation, but if someone is on a tirade of abuse and won't be dissuaded, honestly, fuck em. They can go somewhere else and spew their vitriol. I'm all for having standards, and there's nothing fascist about doing so. If you think a community can't agree upon standards of behavior and enforce them without becoming fascist thugs, then you're lost in the woods. If by excluding one unreasonable and abusive person we make the forum more attractive to ten others, then it's well worth it, in my opinion.
How we treat this forum is how it will be. How we behave, collectively, reflects on the community here. I for one want to see BitShares succeed. I for one wish to create a positive and welcoming environment to help open up participation in this grand experiment to a much wider audience, whereas others feel it is acceptable to treat the forums like their college dorm room floor, hangin out being stoopid and making poop jokes with porn scattered around. That's not the kind of environment I'm personally looking to create here, or anywhere I choose to spend time. So, one who persists in maintaining this narrow cultural bandwidth here will inevitably run into some form of pushback from me. I CAN direct my attention elsewhere, but it's really like watching a culturally backwards trainwreck crushing the hopes of future generations for a laugh, when they could be rolling out the red carpet, or the yellow brick road. My usual MO is to remain silent and carry on as best I can, as many others do. It's not so simple as just leaving the thread and going on with my day, because for better or worse, i actually care about this community and want to see it thrive.
It's also still one of the hugest elephants in the room, which I have alluded to here, namely: Nearly half of the global population, women, are not represented here in the slightest. Since a select few here continue to insist upon creating the dorm room floor environment thus ensuring that this imbalance will continue, the trend isn't likely to change. Naturally this isn't a problem unique to BitShares, but BitShares could be unique in it's response. Women are just the beginning, this is a challenging space for anyone to engage in, and you've got all sorts of groups whose values are aligned with this project but who would not feel welcome, or see value, when they are greeted with the kind of base accusatory discourse they see when they enter here.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but when I have guests over I like to clean up a bit, and create an enjoyable environment to meet with them. I'd like to see a little bit more of that kind of hospitality here on the forums.
Peace
TL;DR "what good is your free speech when the only ones left to talk with you are telling poop jokes?"
-
I was (at least half) joking about banning CRAPCOIN. I like the honesty it brings. It shows us exactly what we get with most of these UIAs and the forum tips.