BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: sudo on January 21, 2016, 04:37:03 am

Title: why bts lack users????????
Post by: sudo on January 21, 2016, 04:37:03 am
why??????
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: freedom on January 21, 2016, 04:53:47 am
那是因为对BTS期望太低。在好的技术,也都是为民服务,民不用有个屁用,几个屌丝天天BB收高额手续费,就算是大面积推广了,别人一看手续费比现行支付系统还高谁还玩,没人这又哪来得前途?想象一下如果R3央妈搞出的数字货币比现行的收费还高,你看看谁会用。
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: alt on January 21, 2016, 04:56:34 am
why??????
maybe everybody have known that they have to pay for development and high fees when they join us.
anyway, in this year, I never introduce BTS to my friend or anybody else.
and a lot of people which I know as an active community memeber have left BTS.

because we belive we deserve the higher payment because of our NiuBilitiy techincal, but nobody else think so
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: wallace on January 21, 2016, 05:03:21 am
why??????
maybe everybody have known that they have to pay for development and high fees when they join us.
anyway, in this year, I never introduce BTS to my friend or anybody else.
and a lot of people which I know as an active community memeber have left BTS.

because we belive we deserve the higher payment because of our NiuBilitiy techincal, but nobody else think so

it's just a few people's toy
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: freedom on January 21, 2016, 05:07:34 am
why??????
maybe everybody have known that they have to pay for development and high fees when they join us.
anyway, in this year, I never introduce BTS to my friend or anybody else.
and a lot of people which I know as an active community memeber have left BTS.

because we belive we deserve the higher payment because of our NiuBilitiy techincal, but nobody else think so

 +5% +5% +5%
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: btswildpig on January 21, 2016, 05:29:04 am
Because people don't need crypto in general .

Because people only need blockchain technology , they don't necessary want to pay for a speculative object . Sooner or later , if people does want to use this tech , there will be companies build a platform using bitshares/ethereum/bitcoin code and disregard the allocation . And they will provide better development (really,someone want to tell me how awesome the team is that even Google throw out 100000 million USD they couldn't find 100 people like them ????  ), better service , better network effect  .

Speculation is the only thing that's keeping a easy-to-copy software code on tens of  millions of marketcap . Usage/applications on the news is just topic for speculation world .

And BitShares killed speculative drive on the ground of getting more users . Even merger,dilution , was an excuse to get more users (and pay for development in the process) .

But users are picky . They won't show up just because you can do 1 sec transaction or you claim you can dilute forever that you have enough development to add value . They like to go with a company that can provide nice service . Godaddy , ebay ..etc ....

Speculation and their capital/liquidity contribution is the only value in BitShares . Users' usage depends on the value that the speculators provides .

When you make speculators/capital scared to come in , you make marketcap low . When you make marketcap low , users won't have decent liquidity to use your service . It's all connected .

I think the only thing that can save BitShares now is cut cost , cut big dreams , big plans ,  stop and burn dilution , and use outside funding to fund basic development and let them pay for a common platform . Stop taking money from where there is no money to be taken . Find money in where is plenty of money.

And don't tell me about Bitcoin mining is the same as BItShares dilution . I know a lot of BItcoin miners shutdown their mining when the price is too low . But that's hardly happened in BitShares . When BTS price is low , the magic word is "dilute on market rate " .

I know bitcoin miners buy Bitcoin when the price is low . DO bitshares dilution do that ?

oops , I've become a FUDer . ....

Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: freedom on January 21, 2016, 05:38:36 am
no ez to find sticky thread containing instructions for:

My Bitshares-PTS wallet contained PTS when the snapshot to transfer PTS to BTS occurred. I have finally set up my Bitshares 2.0 wallet and successfully pulled in my old btsx wallet. However, I can't figure out how to get my old PTS wallet info in to be exchanged for BTS. I went back and imported the PTS wallet.dat into my old Bitshares .9.3 wallet and then tried to reimport that into Bitshares 2 but was unsuccessful. The error was that it had already been imported.



You own the network, but who pays for development?



Technology is for you, or for the general public?
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: fuzzy on January 21, 2016, 07:07:55 am
Because people don't need crypto in general .

Because people only need blockchain technology , they don't necessary want to pay for a speculative object . Sooner or later , if people does want to use this tech , there will be companies build a platform using bitshares/ethereum/bitcoin code and disregard the allocation . And they will provide better development (really,someone want to tell me how awesome the team is that even Google throw out 100000 million USD they couldn't find 100 people like them ????  ), better service , better network effect  .

Speculation is the only thing that's keeping a easy-to-copy software code on tens of  millions of marketcap . Usage/applications on the news is just topic for speculation world .

And BitShares killed speculative drive on the ground of getting more users . Even merger,dilution , was an excuse to get more users (and pay for development in the process) .

But users are picky . They won't show up just because you can do 1 sec transaction or you claim you can dilute forever that you have enough development to add value . They like to go with a company that can provide nice service . Godaddy , ebay ..etc ....

Speculation and their capital/liquidity contribution is the only value in BitShares . Users' usage depends on the value that the speculators provides .

When you make speculators/capital scared to come in , you make marketcap low . When you make marketcap low , users won't have decent liquidity to use your service . It's all connected .

I think the only thing that can save BitShares now is cut cost , cut big dreams , big plans ,  stop and burn dilution , and use outside funding to fund basic development and let them pay for a common platform . Stop taking money from where there is no money to be taken . Find money in where is plenty of money.

And don't tell me about Bitcoin mining is the same as BItShares dilution . I know a lot of BItcoin miners shutdown their mining when the price is too low . But that's hardly happened in BitShares . When BTS price is low , the magic word is "dilute on market rate " .

I know bitcoin miners buy Bitcoin when the price is low . DO bitshares dilution do that ?

oops , I've become a FUDer . ....

beautifully stated. i disagree at times with you but this is definitely at least pretty close.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: fav on January 21, 2016, 07:36:35 am
it's the 30BTS fees.

/sarcasm
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: sudo on January 21, 2016, 09:26:44 am
fba mode is good
you use bts as tools platform  to  do business
share the income with bts    the developer get the large part
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: morpheus on January 21, 2016, 03:47:35 pm
Simply this:

(http://i.imgur.com/Lw6qWVp.png)

This is why we are not seeing any growth in the smartcoin market.  The lending market will fix this as I have outlined in this post. (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20976.msg271612.html#msg271612) 

In order to become profitable bitshares has to solve a real-world problem that has not already been solved.  Right now it doesn't completely solve a real-world problem, but it is 90% of the way there.  Stealth, by itself, does not solve a real world problem that has not already been solved but it is necessary.  The two things on the docket that will allow bitshares to solve a real world problem are the lending market (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20976.msg271612.html#msg271612) and the prediction market.  The lending market, in conjunction with the creation of the most popular physical commodity markets and equity market indicies, and making of these markets will solve a real world problem that has never been solved before in a decentralized fashion.  Maker will be helpful too. 

Once stealth is done, we should go full force and fund the lending market and prediction market (at the same time if possible) through cnx, no matter what the cost.  The cost will be worse if we don't.


And don't tell me about Bitcoin mining is the same as BItShares dilution . I know a lot of BItcoin miners shutdown their mining when the price is too low . But that's hardly happened in BitShares . When BTS price is low , the magic word is "dilute on market rate " .

That is a good point.  Development doesn't get cheaper as prices fall.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: lil_jay890 on January 21, 2016, 03:54:47 pm
Because people don't need crypto in general .

Because people only need blockchain technology , they don't necessary want to pay for a speculative object . Sooner or later , if people does want to use this tech , there will be companies build a platform using bitshares/ethereum/bitcoin code and disregard the allocation . And they will provide better development (really,someone want to tell me how awesome the team is that even Google throw out 100000 million USD they couldn't find 100 people like them ????  ), better service , better network effect  .

Speculation is the only thing that's keeping a easy-to-copy software code on tens of  millions of marketcap . Usage/applications on the news is just topic for speculation world .

And BitShares killed speculative drive on the ground of getting more users . Even merger,dilution , was an excuse to get more users (and pay for development in the process) .

But users are picky . They won't show up just because you can do 1 sec transaction or you claim you can dilute forever that you have enough development to add value . They like to go with a company that can provide nice service . Godaddy , ebay ..etc ....

Speculation and their capital/liquidity contribution is the only value in BitShares . Users' usage depends on the value that the speculators provides .

When you make speculators/capital scared to come in , you make marketcap low . When you make marketcap low , users won't have decent liquidity to use your service . It's all connected .

I think the only thing that can save BitShares now is cut cost , cut big dreams , big plans ,  stop and burn dilution , and use outside funding to fund basic development and let them pay for a common platform . Stop taking money from where there is no money to be taken . Find money in where is plenty of money.

And don't tell me about Bitcoin mining is the same as BItShares dilution . I know a lot of BItcoin miners shutdown their mining when the price is too low . But that's hardly happened in BitShares . When BTS price is low , the magic word is "dilute on market rate " .

I know bitcoin miners buy Bitcoin when the price is low . DO bitshares dilution do that ?

oops , I've become a FUDer . ....

Well considering we are only paying around $250 a day for developement from SVK, Xeroc, Bill Butler(MIA) and cass.  This is a pretty good deal.  The documentation is getting better and so is the interface.  The problem is when CNX comes in and runs a huge worker proposal.  It dilutes like crazy and it passes with hardly any friction at all... It just furthers the thought that bts is centralized.

I'm a big fan of what Abit has done with the percentage based fees.  It's great to see outside devs doing things for the project.

Overall the ecosystem is growing.  Productive UIA's are coming out and some third parties (OPENPOS and odoo) are starting to implement bts and smart coins.  I look forward to seeing what freebie is doing and the addition of fiat on ramps from CCEDK.  CNX seems to have stepped back from bts and has focused on stealth and maybe some other things.  Their github has been quite and I think this is a good thing.

Investors hate uncertainty and bts is about as uncertain as you can get.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 21, 2016, 04:03:53 pm
Well considering we are only paying around $250 a day for developement from SVK, Xeroc, Bill Butler(MIA) and cass.  This is a pretty good deal.  The documentation is getting better and so is the interface.  The problem is when CNX comes in and runs a huge worker proposal.  It dilutes like crazy and it passes with hardly any friction at all... It just furthers the thought that bts is centralized.

I'm a big fan of what Abit has done with the percentage based fees.  It's great to see outside devs doing things for the project.

Overall the ecosystem is growing.  Productive UIA's are coming out and some third parties (OPENPOS and odoo) are starting to implement bts and smart coins.  I look forward to seeing what freebie is doing and the addition of fiat on ramps from CCEDK.  CNX seems to have stepped back from bts and has focused on stealth and maybe some other things.  Their github has been quite and I think this is a good thing.

Investors hate uncertainty and bts is about as uncertain as you can get.

Fair overview.  +5%
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 21, 2016, 04:06:21 pm
Simply this:

(http://i.imgur.com/Lw6qWVp.png)

This is why we are not seeing any growth in the smartcoin market.  The lending market will fix this as I have outlined in this post. (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20976.msg271612.html#msg271612) 

In order to become profitable bitshares has to solve a real-world problem that has not already been solved.  Right now it doesn't completely solve a real-world problem, but it is 90% of the way there.  Stealth, by itself, does not solve a real world problem that has not already been solved but it is necessary.  The two things on the docket that will allow bitshares to solve a real world problem are the lending market (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20976.msg271612.html#msg271612) and the prediction market.  The lending market, in conjunction with the creation of the most popular physical commodity markets and equity market indicies, and making of these markets will solve a real world problem that has never been solved before in a decentralized fashion.  Maker will be helpful too. 

Once stealth is done, we should go full force and fund the lending market and prediction market (at the same time if possible) through cnx, no matter what the cost.  The cost will be worse if we don't.


And don't tell me about Bitcoin mining is the same as BItShares dilution . I know a lot of BItcoin miners shutdown their mining when the price is too low . But that's hardly happened in BitShares . When BTS price is low , the magic word is "dilute on market rate " .

That is a good point.  Development doesn't get cheaper as prices fall.

I'm with you.. I actually was hoping to see more feedback from others in your thread but saw nothing.

Are there any regulatory issues we may face in creating lending markets like this?
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: fuzzy on January 21, 2016, 04:28:31 pm
just want to remind people they can very easily get TRYBITSHARES from me to hand out on social media.  The idea is that instead of telling them how great bts is...you give them some TRYBITSHARES tokens and let them setuo a wallet and withdraw them ...in a tx that takes less than 3 seconds. 

We have tools at our disposal. We simply need to get bts into the hands of people who will check it out. 

Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: morpheus on January 21, 2016, 11:59:36 pm
I'm with you.. I actually was hoping to see more feedback from others in your thread but saw nothing.

Are there any regulatory issues we may face in creating lending markets like this?

I don't know.  I hate regulation and choose to ignore it (at least for now), which may come back to bite me one day.  It would be a shame if a great new world changing technology was stopped because of regulation.  I say build it first and deal with the regulation later.  Once the system is highly profitable and ready for mainstream, then we can pay people through worker proposal to deal with the regulators.  Chances are the regulators won't bother you in the earliest stages, like right now.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: neo1344 on January 22, 2016, 12:42:51 am
just want to remind people they can very easily get TRYBITSHARES from me to hand out on social media.  The idea is that instead of telling them how great bts is...you give them some TRYBITSHARES tokens and let them setuo a wallet and withdraw them ...in a tx that takes less than 3 seconds. 

We have tools at our disposal. We simply need to get bts into the hands of people who will check it out.
What you saying is give away BTS for free? hope you are not one of BTS dev
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: deer on January 22, 2016, 03:37:06 am
burn the stupid worker fund pool!and announce that never inflation!anyone want to make profit can do FBA or app and fund from outside!(if you can't,how dare you can say it's a “good” project) and  I think the hitory fund can at least give us a full api and stable wallet ,right?

3 “inlfation years” has past ,we can barely take it any more .
I think it is the only way out

Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: CoinHoarder on January 22, 2016, 05:35:37 am
No liquidity in the DEX, and stakeholders are too cheap to fix it (dilution is the only surefire way to fix it.)
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: fuzzy on January 22, 2016, 06:16:26 am
fba mode is good
you use bts as tools platform  to  do business
share the income with bts    the developer get the large part

sexy right? :D
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: fuzzy on January 22, 2016, 06:24:43 am
just want to remind people they can very easily get TRYBITSHARES from me to hand out on social media.  The idea is that instead of telling them how great bts is...you give them some TRYBITSHARES tokens and let them setuo a wallet and withdraw them ...in a tx that takes less than 3 seconds. 

We have tools at our disposal. We simply need to get bts into the hands of people who will check it out.
What you saying is give away BTS for free? hope you are not one of BTS dev

Nope.  I am saying this:

#Sharebits "neo1344" 300 TRYBITSHARES

You should be receiving 300 TRYBITSHARES UIAs now to pass out along with a message telling people to try the ecosystem.  you can pass them via Twitter, Reddit and url link (so pretty much everywhere else too). 

Getting people to make a wallet is literally half the battle.  If they have something that makes them curious (oh I received tokens?  what are they?) and then are guided to create an OpenLedger account, they are going to be more likely to download it and try it out.  From that point it is just making sure your token hits the right demographics and the message appeals to what in bitshares their

So for instance if I am planning on reaching out to #anonymous on twitter I go to that hashtag and start sending out "AnonymousCoin" to them along with something that talks about the privacy/anonymity features bitshares offers and how it is the most decentralized blockchain out there.  It has to do with us using the tools we have available to make bitshares the best it can be and bring onboard brilliant minds.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: btstip on January 22, 2016, 06:26:21 am
Hey fuzzy, here are the results of your tips...
Curious about ShareBits? Visit us at http://sharebits.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21099.msg273614/topicseen.html#msg273614
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: kenCode on January 22, 2016, 06:35:14 am
Well considering we are only paying around $250 a day for developement from SVK, Xeroc, Bill Butler(MIA) and cass.  This is a pretty good deal.  The documentation is getting better and so is the interface.  The problem is when CNX comes in and runs a huge worker proposal.  It dilutes like crazy and it passes with hardly any friction at all... It just furthers the thought that bts is centralized.

I'm a big fan of what Abit has done with the percentage based fees.  It's great to see outside devs doing things for the project.

Overall the ecosystem is growing.  Productive UIA's are coming out and some third parties (OPENPOS and odoo) are starting to implement bts and smart coins.  I look forward to seeing what freebie is doing and the addition of fiat on ramps from CCEDK.  CNX seems to have stepped back from bts and has focused on stealth and maybe some other things.  Their github has been quite and I think this is a good thing.

Investors hate uncertainty and bts is about as uncertain as you can get.

 +5% +5% +5%
Spot on. We don't need more Worker proposals or the current fees structure. Change those and we can start seeing some cap.
 
There's tons of hungry investors out there now, the whiners here just need to go and connect with them (meetups!).
http://bitshares.meetup.com
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: Tuck Fheman on January 22, 2016, 11:09:15 am
why??????

Because people want blockchain technology forced onto them by their government overlords, not handed to them by society.

Choices are really hard for most, especially correct choices.

For most, it's easier to accept a mandated bad choice and go with the herd to avoid being different than to do some research on their own and make their own decision.

It's even harder for most to act once that step is complete.

You special snowflakes here and in other crypto-communities are a rare breed ... "The Exceptions" (not coming soon to a theater near you), and the herd is getting thinner every day.

Once "Bankcoin's" (or whatever name they are given) are forced onto the masses, and they will be, I assume we will all become financial "terrorist", by law (it's not a stretch).

So, why does BTS lack users?

For the same reason Bitcoin (and all the other non-government issued crypto's) lacks users (see above).

(https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/1/005/077/32b/2e0ad81.jpg)

https://youtu.be/I_8rt1PSck8 (https://youtu.be/I_8rt1PSck8)





Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: bizzyb on January 22, 2016, 11:29:18 am
why??????
Because it's really confusing.

As an outsider looking in I have no idea what's going on.
Yes, the technology is cutting edge, but I have no idea what benefits it has to me.

The message is being lost.

Suggestion.
Bitshares needs two outward facing websites.
Bitshares.org - designed for the lay person/businesses so they can get involved, buy, mine, download app, create wallet
Bitsharespro.org - designed for the tech minded, devs, all the high level techy facts & figures etc

BitShares can't be everything to everyone all on a single webpage.
What would be amazing is if there was some kind of "wizard" tool to help people create all these weird things you can with Bitshares.  There are like dozens of acronyms for things I think?
But anyway > step 1 - do you want to create an asset (like an interesting paying bond) or do you want to create a new loan, ,step 2 - what is your project called step 3 - the charge for this is 500 BTS, please send to this address or buy BTS from here, step 4 - your project is now live -
or whatever, but hopefully you see the benefit of simplicity?

If a lay person lands on the BitShares home page they are greeted with this:
"BitShares is an industrial-grade financial blockchain smart contracts platform" - Bounce rate high much?
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: infovortice2013 on January 22, 2016, 12:52:30 pm
bitshares change tooooooooooooooooooooo much.

its the democratic comunity that his leader come and say we going to change everything cuz is better and we have approval of stakeholders,,,,,, without voting

the coders make his own cryptonomex bussiness at side of bitshares

no moar funders or reputation for comunity members, also heard weird histories of devs working here talking shit about Stan ect..

its a total private platform and you see identabit, if tomorrow comes Citybank to buy a clone of bitshares, bitshares holder dont win nothing. (a sharedrop if company want to do it.) Criptonomex eat all.

i think good question is why normal people should use bitshares or what profit they has  ,,, i not find responses, remember bitsharesX i have reasons with bitshares 2.0 NO

what i learn here from greedy devs-delegates i just not move one finger again if my pocket isnt filled with BTS.

my work isnt have less value than a coder, so promote Bitshares your self when finish coding.

you want comunnity invest , comunitty spread the word for about 3 years make few big structural changes , FOR NOTHIG just to FILL your pockets. common and now you surprised we finish alone communitty gone. What can had fail we do same shit like steve jobs breaking status quo with devs & comunitty ----- WHY nobody uses BTS2.0 ?????? if is tha best (to fill your pockets)

almost BTS 2 is finished but all the rest of DACs still are on the way....  lot of promises .... no results ... people gone.

Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: kenCode on January 22, 2016, 12:59:53 pm
If a lay person lands on the BitShares home page they are greeted with this:
"BitShares is an industrial-grade financial blockchain smart contracts platform" - Bounce rate high much?

[member=40087]bizzyb[/member] :: BAMM +5%
 
I don't think we need to add additional websites, but we should make the techie stuff a bit more of a drill-down from the homepage so for those who really feel the need to learn that stuff, then make them dig a bit more than the average user. The Bitshares.org main page should be friendly enough for my grandma to "get it".
 
Just do one of those reactjs slider thingies:
BitShares let's you bank without a Bank.
BitShares secures your wealth without the middlemen.
BitShares let's you invest without the Broker.
BitShares facilitates contracts without a Lawyer.
BitShares isn't a company you must trust, it's a Blockchain.
BitShares is your borderless, digital payments platform.
 
I don't know, but there's a few ideas.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: valzav on January 22, 2016, 02:53:35 pm
If a lay person lands on the BitShares home page they are greeted with this:
"BitShares is an industrial-grade financial blockchain smart contracts platform" - Bounce rate high much?

[member=40087]bizzyb[/member] :: BAMM +5%
 
I don't think we need to add additional websites, but we should make the techie stuff a bit more of a drill-down from the homepage so for those who really feel the need to learn that stuff, then make them dig a bit more than the average user. The Bitshares.org main page should be friendly enough for my grandma to "get it".
 
Just do one of those reactjs slider thingies:
BitShares let's you bank without a Bank.
BitShares secures your wealth without the middlemen.
BitShares let's you invest without the Broker.
BitShares facilitates contracts without a Lawyer.
BitShares isn't a company you must trust, it's a Blockchain.
BitShares is your borderless, digital payments platform.
 
I don't know, but there's a few ideas.

[member=30868]kenCode[/member], something like this has already been on bitshares.org (year or so ago, Brian Page's time) and this didn't work, it's like saying BitShares is everything for everyone, it may sound cool but it doesn't convert visitors to users.
We still don't have any consensus around what BitShares is - part of the community see it as DEX, another part want to see at as platform, some want to see it as a bank with stable currencies, etc.

I think BitShares is missing its product-market fit. In order to achieve it, we need to start with a problem we want to solve and specify users' segment  looking for the solution to this specific problem - this is what called "customer development" in Lean Startup. After problem and segment is confirmed it would be much easier to figure out how to market it and how to change UI so it really helps users to solve their problems.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: fav on January 22, 2016, 02:58:34 pm
If a lay person lands on the BitShares home page they are greeted with this:
"BitShares is an industrial-grade financial blockchain smart contracts platform" - Bounce rate high much?

[member=40087]bizzyb[/member] :: BAMM +5%
 
I don't think we need to add additional websites, but we should make the techie stuff a bit more of a drill-down from the homepage so for those who really feel the need to learn that stuff, then make them dig a bit more than the average user. The Bitshares.org main page should be friendly enough for my grandma to "get it".
 
Just do one of those reactjs slider thingies:
BitShares let's you bank without a Bank.
BitShares secures your wealth without the middlemen.
BitShares let's you invest without the Broker.
BitShares facilitates contracts without a Lawyer.
BitShares isn't a company you must trust, it's a Blockchain.
BitShares is your borderless, digital payments platform.
 
I don't know, but there's a few ideas.

[member=30868]kenCode[/member], something like this has already been on bitshares.org (year or so ago, Brian Page's time) and this didn't work, it's like saying BitShares is everything for everyone, it may sound cool but it doesn't convert visitors to users.
We still don't have any consensus around what BitShares is - part of the community see it as DEX, another part want to see at as platform, some want to see it as a bank with stable currencies, etc.

I think BitShares is missing its product-market fit. In order to achieve it, we need to start with a problem we want to solve and specify users' segment  looking for the solution to this specific problem - this is what called "customer development" in Lean Startup. After problem and segment is confirmed it would be much easier to figure out how to market it and how to change UI so it really helps users to solve their problems.

absolutely agree. and while we're still in identity crisis, competitors are popping up. supernet has a beta DEX (and stablecoin in the making), Ethereum's EtherEx is in alpha (soon beta) and with digix there will be a backed gold token + rune's Dai soonish, even Nubits are working on their B&C exchange. and all of them are able to use stablecoins.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: valzav on January 22, 2016, 03:16:37 pm
bitshares change tooooooooooooooooooooo much.

its the democratic comunity that his leader come and say we going to change everything cuz is better and we have approval of stakeholders,,,,,, without voting

the coders make his own cryptonomex bussiness at side of bitshares

no moar funders or reputation for comunity members, also heard weird histories of devs working here talking shit about Stan ect..

its a total private platform and you see identabit, if tomorrow comes Citybank to buy a clone of bitshares, bitshares holder dont win nothing. (a sharedrop if company want to do it.) Criptonomex eat all.

i think good question is why normal people should use bitshares or what profit they has  ,,, i not find responses, remember bitsharesX i have reasons with bitshares 2.0 NO

what i learn here from greedy devs-delegates i just not move one finger again if my pocket isnt filled with BTS.

my work isnt have less value than a coder, so promote Bitshares your self when finish coding.

you want comunnity invest , comunitty spread the word for about 3 years make few big structural changes , FOR NOTHIG just to FILL your pockets. common and now you surprised we finish alone communitty gone. What can had fail we do same shit like steve jobs breaking status quo with devs & comunitty ----- WHY nobody uses BTS2.0 ?????? if is tha best (to fill your pockets)

almost BTS 2 is finished but all the rest of DACs still are on the way....  lot of promises .... no results ... people gone.

That's funny how it's seen in a completely different light from developers side - while we are working hard being significantly underpaid for more than a year now, a lot of community members and original investors sell their stake just in order to speculate on some brand new fancy cryptocoin.
Every basis point lost in BitShares market cap is a missed opportunity to implement some new feature or attract more users/developers.
Saying Cryptonomex is greedy while it's trying to save BitShares releasing Graphene under free license and not going after any IP, just to make it more attractive for developers at the price of making Cryptonomex completely running out of anything that can be sold to investors, to banks or anybody else. I would say that Cryptonomex has sacrificed its own future trying to save BitShares, so it's weird to hear how greedy we are.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: valzav on January 22, 2016, 03:23:04 pm
If a lay person lands on the BitShares home page they are greeted with this:
"BitShares is an industrial-grade financial blockchain smart contracts platform" - Bounce rate high much?

[member=40087]bizzyb[/member] :: BAMM +5%
 
I don't think we need to add additional websites, but we should make the techie stuff a bit more of a drill-down from the homepage so for those who really feel the need to learn that stuff, then make them dig a bit more than the average user. The Bitshares.org main page should be friendly enough for my grandma to "get it".
 
Just do one of those reactjs slider thingies:
BitShares let's you bank without a Bank.
BitShares secures your wealth without the middlemen.
BitShares let's you invest without the Broker.
BitShares facilitates contracts without a Lawyer.
BitShares isn't a company you must trust, it's a Blockchain.
BitShares is your borderless, digital payments platform.
 
I don't know, but there's a few ideas.

[member=30868]kenCode[/member], something like this has already been on bitshares.org (year or so ago, Brian Page's time) and this didn't work, it's like saying BitShares is everything for everyone, it may sound cool but it doesn't convert visitors to users.
We still don't have any consensus around what BitShares is - part of the community see it as DEX, another part want to see at as platform, some want to see it as a bank with stable currencies, etc.

I think BitShares is missing its product-market fit. In order to achieve it, we need to start with a problem we want to solve and specify users' segment  looking for the solution to this specific problem - this is what called "customer development" in Lean Startup. After problem and segment is confirmed it would be much easier to figure out how to market it and how to change UI so it really helps users to solve their problems.

absolutely agree. and while we're still in identity crisis, competitors are popping up. supernet has a beta DEX (and stablecoin in the making), Ethereum's EtherEx is in alpha (soon beta) and with digix there will be a backed gold token + rune's Dai soonish, even Nubits are working on their B&C exchange. and all of them are able to use stablecoins.

We can still be ahead of our competitors - they can stumble upon the same issues, so we have a chance to resolve product-market fit issue first.
Do you think there are blockchain projects achieved product-market fit already and show a good traction? Please post some examples here.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: deer on January 22, 2016, 03:34:34 pm
"Cryptonomex" is  trying to "save" BitShares by tech,But also destroying the whole by endless inflation、merge、waste of funding、uncertain rules、terrible pr、disrespect to investor at the same time.

Dev Code for this project and get money,easily change the rule if can't get enough!!

What do we got after as investor since 2013? losing 80% of the money?That 's what we suppose to have?

Look at the cap、the amount of users. Who should blame for this??? the bankrupt investor???
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: Stan on January 22, 2016, 04:15:51 pm
We never stop working and spending our own resources to grow the ecosystem.

You may disagree on what we work on first, but it would be incorrect to say we are not working if someone is not "stuffing our pockets".    Our pockets are actually quite fat-free right now.  :)

Our key objective was to get the platform out there in the open so other people could build on it in parallel without waiting for us as the bottleneck. 

Judging from the number of independent projects you can see being discussed, that seems to be working.

I spend most of my time supporting independent third parties with great ideas.  Some of them have since become well known here and others are still working on building teams and getting funding.

I expect to have more to say about this in a month or so - but Cryptonomex is increasingly just one of many ways to get things done.

As for change, what has changed since the big 2.0 upgrade which incorporated a year's worth of lesson's learned?

Market cap doesn't reflect underlying value because it takes research to see how much is going on here and many would rather just analyze short term chart wiggles.  Crypto capital is not stable.  It can move from trend to trend since it is not locked up like it is with normal startup investments.  Allocation of capital is not driven by fundamentals and speculators often sell following great news.  To take our price out of the hands of short term speculators we need to create other, more stable sources of demand.

And that means helping real businesses bring real services to real customers.  And each business will explain their own value proposition to their own customers in their own way.  Marketing BitShares is not "one size fits all".

So that's where we are focused -- building on top of BitShares and encouraging other's to do the same. 
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: kenCode on January 22, 2016, 04:27:25 pm
we are focused -- building on top of BitShares and encouraging other's to do the same.

BAMM! +5%
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: btswildpig on January 22, 2016, 04:32:40 pm
We never stop working and spending our own resources to grow the ecosystem.

You may disagree on what we work on first, but it would be incorrect to say we are not working if someone is not "stuffing our pockets".    Our pockets are actually quite fat-free right now.  :)

Our key objective was to get the platform out there in the open so other people could build on it in parallel without waiting for us as the bottleneck. 

Judging from the number of independent projects you can see being discussed, that seems to be working.

I spend most of my time supporting independent third parties with great ideas.  Some of them have since become well known here and others are still working on building teams and getting funding.

I expect to have more to say about this in a month or so - but Cryptonomex is increasingly just one of many ways to get things done.

As for change, what has changed since the big 2.0 upgrade which incorporated a year's worth of lesson's learned?

Market cap doesn't reflect underlying value because it takes research to see how much is going on here and many would rather just analyze short term chart wiggles.  Crypto capital is not stable.  It can move from trend to trend since it is not locked up like it is with normal startup investments.  Allocation of capital is not driven by fundamentals and speculators often sell following great news.  To take our price out of the hands of short term speculators we need to create other, more stable sources of demand.

And that means helping real businesses bring real services to real customers.  And each business will explain their own value proposition to their own customers in their own way.  Marketing BitShares is not "one size fits all".

So that's where we are focused -- building on top of BitShares and encouraging other's to do the same.

When is the last time you use a BitShares related service  :P ?
 
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 22, 2016, 05:09:18 pm
We never stop working and spending our own resources to grow the ecosystem.

You may disagree on what we work on first, but it would be incorrect to say we are not working if someone is not "stuffing our pockets".    Our pockets are actually quite fat-free right now.  :)

Our key objective was to get the platform out there in the open so other people could build on it in parallel without waiting for us as the bottleneck. 

Judging from the number of independent projects you can see being discussed, that seems to be working.

I spend most of my time supporting independent third parties with great ideas.  Some of them have since become well known here and others are still working on building teams and getting funding.

I expect to have more to say about this in a month or so - but Cryptonomex is increasingly just one of many ways to get things done.

As for change, what has changed since the big 2.0 upgrade which incorporated a year's worth of lesson's learned?

Market cap doesn't reflect underlying value because it takes research to see how much is going on here and many would rather just analyze short term chart wiggles.  Crypto capital is not stable.  It can move from trend to trend since it is not locked up like it is with normal startup investments.  Allocation of capital is not driven by fundamentals and speculators often sell following great news.  To take our price out of the hands of short term speculators we need to create other, more stable sources of demand.

And that means helping real businesses bring real services to real customers.  And each business will explain their own value proposition to their own customers in their own way.  Marketing BitShares is not "one size fits all".

So that's where we are focused -- building on top of BitShares and encouraging other's to do the same.

Well stated  +5%
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: xeroc on January 22, 2016, 05:10:30 pm
Market cap doesn't reflect underlying value because it takes research to see how much is going on here and many would rather just analyze short term chart wiggles.  Crypto capital is not stable.  It can move from trend to trend since it is not locked up like it is with normal startup investments.  Allocation of capital is not driven by fundamentals and speculators often sell following great news.  To take our price out of the hands of short term speculators we need to create other, more stable sources of demand.
^^ This
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: infovortice2013 on January 22, 2016, 06:22:45 pm
bitshares change tooooooooooooooooooooo much.

its the democratic comunity that his leader come and say we going to change everything cuz is better and we have approval of stakeholders,,,,,, without voting

the coders make his own cryptonomex bussiness at side of bitshares

no moar funders or reputation for comunity members, also heard weird histories of devs working here talking shit about Stan ect..

its a total private platform and you see identabit, if tomorrow comes Citybank to buy a clone of bitshares, bitshares holder dont win nothing. (a sharedrop if company want to do it.) Criptonomex eat all.

i think good question is why normal people should use bitshares or what profit they has  ,,, i not find responses, remember bitsharesX i have reasons with bitshares 2.0 NO

what i learn here from greedy devs-delegates i just not move one finger again if my pocket isnt filled with BTS.

my work isnt have less value than a coder, so promote Bitshares your self when finish coding.

you want comunnity invest , comunitty spread the word for about 3 years make few big structural changes , FOR NOTHIG just to FILL your pockets. common and now you surprised we finish alone communitty gone. What can had fail we do same shit like steve jobs breaking status quo with devs & comunitty ----- WHY nobody uses BTS2.0 ?????? if is tha best (to fill your pockets)

almost BTS 2 is finished but all the rest of DACs still are on the way....  lot of promises .... no results ... people gone.

That's funny how it's seen in a completely different light from developers side - while we are working hard being significantly underpaid for more than a year now, a lot of community members and original investors sell their stake just in order to speculate on some brand new fancy cryptocoin.
Every basis point lost in BitShares market cap is a missed opportunity to implement some new feature or attract more users/developers.
Saying Cryptonomex is greedy while it's trying to save BitShares releasing Graphene under free license and not going after any IP, just to make it more attractive for developers at the price of making Cryptonomex completely running out of anything that can be sold to investors, to banks or anybody else. I would say that Cryptonomex has sacrificed its own future trying to save BitShares, so it's weird to hear how greedy we are.

sorry, not want to offense,  when say greedy and your pockets reffer all changes no profit to users no profit to investors no profit for active communitty just devs delegates and services profiting.
bitsharesX profit for everyholder burning fees its a little big change.

Still now i belive BTS is the best tool for unbanked people, and best base for corporations to decentralice.

i think BitShares need to be security audited to have some kind of inssurance for people put his money in or big corporations decide adopt it
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: Empirical1.2 on January 22, 2016, 06:37:42 pm
bitshares change tooooooooooooooooooooo much.

its the democratic comunity that his leader come and say we going to change everything cuz is better and we have approval of stakeholders,,,,,, without voting

the coders make his own cryptonomex bussiness at side of bitshares

no moar funders or reputation for comunity members, also heard weird histories of devs working here talking shit about Stan ect..

its a total private platform and you see identabit, if tomorrow comes Citybank to buy a clone of bitshares, bitshares holder dont win nothing. (a sharedrop if company want to do it.) Criptonomex eat all.

i think good question is why normal people should use bitshares or what profit they has  ,,, i not find responses, remember bitsharesX i have reasons with bitshares 2.0 NO

what i learn here from greedy devs-delegates i just not move one finger again if my pocket isnt filled with BTS.

my work isnt have less value than a coder, so promote Bitshares your self when finish coding.

you want comunnity invest , comunitty spread the word for about 3 years make few big structural changes , FOR NOTHIG just to FILL your pockets. common and now you surprised we finish alone communitty gone. What can had fail we do same shit like steve jobs breaking status quo with devs & comunitty ----- WHY nobody uses BTS2.0 ?????? if is tha best (to fill your pockets)

almost BTS 2 is finished but all the rest of DACs still are on the way....  lot of promises .... no results ... people gone.

That's funny how it's seen in a completely different light from developers side - while we are working hard being significantly underpaid for more than a year now, a lot of community members and original investors sell their stake just in order to speculate on some brand new fancy cryptocoin.
Every basis point lost in BitShares market cap is a missed opportunity to implement some new feature or attract more users/developers.
Saying Cryptonomex is greedy while it's trying to save BitShares releasing Graphene under free license and not going after any IP, just to make it more attractive for developers at the price of making Cryptonomex completely running out of anything that can be sold to investors, to banks or anybody else. I would say that Cryptonomex has sacrificed its own future trying to save BitShares, so it's weird to hear how greedy we are.

We've spent millions via donations on development, then money from dilution and money from CNX and you've been underpaid in the process & yet BTS hasn't developed a product/service that attracts users or one that would make a compelling addition to Microsoft Azure's 'Blockchain As A Service'

The other argument is that we now have a very strong platform for others to build on & that's true to an extent, I think there's a lot of potential with FBA's but many would say Ethereum is better suited to that. Also It's been past investors that have paid for the BTS platform but future investors who will reap the benefit.

We can still be ahead of our competitors - they can stumble upon the same issues, so we have a chance to resolve product-market fit issue first.
Do you think there are blockchain projects achieved product-market fit already and show a good traction? Please post some examples here.

1. NuBits designed a very simple product first and with funds generated from that product that they know now has a market, not funds from new investors, or speculators, they're rolling out multiple new NuCurrencies and building an exchange. (They also paid out 25% in dividends to their investors in 2015)

(Not blockchain based but Uphold is supposedly the faster growing money platform in the world on the back of their centralized BitAssets.) 

So personally I think the product you do have is Smartcoins & everything should be focused on that and billions await the winner.

PM's have some potential, but probably more for a PM focused outfit like Augur,  and we're seeing the rudimentary beginnings of those now too.

My fear is that BTS will continue draining existing investors for general platform development, nice to have 'features' that aren't actually a product/service so that third parties can build on the platform which won't necessarily benefit BTS holders as demonstrated by MSC and XCP. (6 of the top 8 assets use those platfroms but XCP & MSC combined  is <$3 million - http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/  )
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: tonyk on January 22, 2016, 11:20:49 pm
Simply this:

(http://i.imgur.com/Lw6qWVp.png)

This is why we are not seeing any growth in the smartcoin market. 

Nice pic.... well maybe not so much, idk just a fan of all white green and red flags.

With risk to seriously derail a nice thread, dare to explain what it actually means? Cause from my corner smart coins have unlimited return potential and yes return equal  to 100% of the price movement and limited loss potential at only 100%..

Example:
with 1 BTC worth of BTS you can short 1 BTC. Any x% increase in the BTS price (in respect to BTC) results in profit from that short position. The amount of BTS profited is exactly x/100 in  BTC terms.

So with 100 K BTS  and BTS price at 100,000 BTS/BTC and we short 1 BTC.(we get 100K bts from this sell.)
The price doubles (aka 100% price increase) to 50,000 BTS/BTC. We buy the one bitBTC back paying 50K from the 100K BTS we got from selling it => profit of 50K BTS... which are worth exactly 1 BTC. and we have exactly 100% profit on 100% price increase.
This btw continues on - at 120% increase one will have 120% profit and so on... and the potential lost is never .well more than 100% or 1BTC worth of BTS.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: morpheus on January 23, 2016, 12:38:52 am
Example:
with 1 BTC worth of BTS you can short 1 BTC. Any x% increase in the BTS price (in respect to BTC) results in profit from that short position. The amount of BTS profited is exactly x/100 in  BTC terms.

So with 100 K BTS  and BTS price at 100,000 BTS/BTC and we short 1 BTC.(we get 100K bts from this sell.)

Your initial outlay will be 200k bts at 2x collateral, all of which is at risk... so if price goes to 200,000 BTS/BTC, you loose 100% of all 200,000 bts

Quote
The price doubles (aka 100% price increase) to 50,000 BTS/BTC. We buy the one bitBTC back paying 50K from the 100K BTS we got from selling it => profit of 50K BTS... which are worth exactly 1 BTC. and we have exactly 100% profit on 100% price increase.
This btw continues on - at 120% increase one will have 120% profit and so on... and the potential lost is never .well more than 100% or 1BTC worth of BTS.

If price goes to 50,000 BTS/BTC, then we use 50,000 bts to buy back the 1 BTC, giving us a 25% profit on initial capital put at risk.  50,000 of 200,000 is 25%

If price goes to 0 BTS/BTC (max), then we we gain 100,000 bts, which is 50% of the 200,000 bts put at risk, capping our gains at 50% of initial capital put at risk.  I suppose you could say your gain in BTC is infinite but if the price of bitcoin is 0 at the time of redemtion, have you really gained anything in terms of purchasing power when priced in bitcoin. 

Its kind of like putting $200,000 down to buy a $100,000 house and selling the house for $100,000, netting you $300,000 with debt of the house.  Then the house burns to the ground and is worth $0.  You reacquire the house for $0 and return it to repay the loan and you end up with $300,000.  Realistically, did you gain infinite purchasing power because the house burned to the ground, or did you gain $100,000 of purchasing power because the house burned to the ground?  You gained $100,000 of purchasing power on a $200,000 outlay so your gain is 50%.  If the price of the house would have gone to $200,000, your loss would be 100%.

I know it sounds really bass-ackwards, but that is how most people are looking at it around here.  We need to start looking at bts as the native reserve currency of the system, which will be tough as far as adoption is concerned, but is doable and necessary for the system to thrive.  Who knows, eventually it could become a viable international currency and perhaps the world's reserve currency.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: tonyk on January 23, 2016, 12:50:47 am
Example:
with 1 BTC worth of BTS you can short 1 BTC. Any x% increase in the BTS price (in respect to BTC) results in profit from that short position. The amount of BTS profited is exactly x/100 in  BTC terms.

So with 100 K BTS  and BTS price at 100,000 BTS/BTC and we short 1 BTC.(we get 100K bts from this sell.)

Your initial outlay will be 200k bts at 2x collateral, all of which is at risk... so if price goes to 200,000 BTS/BTC, you loose 100% of all 200,000 bts


Nope! Exactly 100K BTS.

Do you wanna bet?




1.You deposit exactly 1BTC worth of BTS into an account. (127,353 BTS as of this writing)

2. You give me access to this account (by changing the permissions in the GUI to threshold of 1 and my account weight set to 1)

3. I will short you 1 bitBTC without sending any more money to that account.

4. When you have 1 bitBTC short in that account, everything that is not in collateral is what I get for winning the bet. ( Idk, maybe even I can leave you 50% of all proceeds of bitBTC sold above feed price :)   )


Deal?

PS
You might also post the account here so the curious can enjoy.

PSS
I cut your post to the point where you got it wrong, so the rest of it is based on erroneous facts.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: mike623317 on January 23, 2016, 01:50:46 am
why??????
Because it's really confusing.

As an outsider looking in I have no idea what's going on.
Yes, the technology is cutting edge, but I have no idea what benefits it has to me.

The message is being lost.

Suggestion.
Bitshares needs two outward facing websites.
Bitshares.org - designed for the lay person/businesses so they can get involved, buy, mine, download app, create wallet
Bitsharespro.org - designed for the tech minded, devs, all the high level techy facts & figures etc

BitShares can't be everything to everyone all on a single webpage.
What would be amazing is if there was some kind of "wizard" tool to help people create all these weird things you can with Bitshares.  There are like dozens of acronyms for things I think?
But anyway > step 1 - do you want to create an asset (like an interesting paying bond) or do you want to create a new loan, ,step 2 - what is your project called step 3 - the charge for this is 500 BTS, please send to this address or buy BTS from here, step 4 - your project is now live -
or whatever, but hopefully you see the benefit of simplicity?

If a lay person lands on the BitShares home page they are greeted with this:
"BitShares is an industrial-grade financial blockchain smart contracts platform" - Bounce rate high much?

 +5% ^^^^ BINGO ^^^^  This is true in my opinion. Adam said basically the same thing in that interview with BM.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: morpheus on January 23, 2016, 03:56:02 am
Example:
with 1 BTC worth of BTS you can short 1 BTC. Any x% increase in the BTS price (in respect to BTC) results in profit from that short position. The amount of BTS profited is exactly x/100 in  BTC terms.

So with 100 K BTS  and BTS price at 100,000 BTS/BTC and we short 1 BTC.(we get 100K bts from this sell.)

Your initial outlay will be 200k bts at 2x collateral, all of which is at risk... so if price goes to 200,000 BTS/BTC, you loose 100% of all 200,000 bts


Nope! Exactly 100K BTS.

Do you wanna bet?




1.You deposit exactly 1BTC worth of BTS into an account. (127,353 BTS as of this writing)

2. You give me access to this account (by changing the permissions in the GUI to threshold of 1 and my account weight set to 1)

3. I will short you 1 bitBTC without sending any more money to that account.

4. When you have 1 bitBTC short in that account, everything that is not in collateral is what I get for winning the bet. ( Idk, maybe even I can leave you 50% of all proceeds of bitBTC sold above feed price :)   )


Deal?

PS
You might also post the account here so the curious can enjoy.

PSS
I cut your post to the point where you got it wrong, so the rest of it is based on erroneous facts.

I don't bet unless the odds are in my favor and you sound pretty confident so Im sure I could lose this one.  Maybe you know some backdoor hack to do that, in which case it would be an attack that would render the whole thing useless until fixed.

I am coming at this from an end user perspective, which is the most important perspective.  Explain to me this: 

I get the following message when trying to create 1 bitcoin at a 1:1 collateral ratio (128,972 bts to 1 btc):  Collateral ratio is too low, position will be margin called instantly.

(http://i.imgur.com/JHaUCj1.png)

I get the same message up until a collateral ratio of 1:1.9

(http://i.imgur.com/rVzfxi5.png)

I need a collateral ratio of at least 1.95 to create the position, which equates to 251,183 bts put at risk.

(http://i.imgur.com/Kvzyu81.png)

How is it possible to override that error message with a collateral ratio of 1:1?



P.S.  yes we are derailing this thread
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: puppies on January 23, 2016, 04:16:28 am
Short .5 bts then sell that, then use those funds to short .3 bts then sell them then use those funds to short the last .2.  Btc price is so high this would net more than 1 btc short.

When you create an asset you not only get the short position you also get the asset.
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: tonyk on January 23, 2016, 04:28:16 am
I don't bet unless the odds are in my favor and you sound pretty confident so Im sure I could lose this one.  Maybe you know some backdoor hack to do that, in which case it would be an attack that would render the whole thing useless until fixed.

I am coming at this from an end user perspective, which is the most important perspective.  Explain to me this: 

I get the following message when trying to create 1 bitcoin at a 1:1 collateral ratio (128,972 bts to 1 btc):  Collateral ratio is too low, position will be margin called instantly.

...

It is not a hack.... it is how the system is supposed to/ is working.

1.You just short what you can short aka about 1/1.925 BTC worth of bitBTC per 1 BTC worth of collateral (prices as per feed).
2. you sell those bitBTC and increase you collateral with the BTS received from those sells.
3. Go back to step 1.

You end up with about 1 bitBTC shorted  for each 1 btc worth of bts you have started the process.(minus fees)
[NB I find my own explanations, very easy to grasp... unfortunately on more occasions than not, the people on the receiving end of those kind of do not agree... if this is the case read puppies eli5 above (same thing different words)]

And not to derail this thread I believe that there are no people willing to short bitWhatever (aka go longer BTS) because no one is ready to put his money on the line believes bts is going anywhere higher. Because of this  we have enormous spreads on almost all bitAssets.  Because of this there are no customers interested in this product. Cause our 'smart coins are...well 5 to 20% above the 1:1 ratio to the underlying.

And for all of this the fault goes to the leader.... who while seemingly able to do whatever he choses with BTS, he not only totally controls the project's direction but finds the greatest pleasure in starting to go after the great new pipe dream of his, whenever his previous dream is somewhere about 50 to 75% finished.

[edit]Better put thoughts of mine on the same issues here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21111.msg273775.html#msg273775
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: morpheus on January 23, 2016, 06:33:09 am
Short .5 bts then sell that, then use those funds to short .3 bts then sell them then use those funds to short the last .2.  Btc price is so high this would net more than 1 btc short.

When you create an asset you not only get the short position you also get the asset.

[member=11011]tonyk[/member]

Ok, I knew there was a technicality in there somewhere, but nobody is realistically going to string together a series of trades just to eventually get to a 1:1 ratio, getting eaten up with fees on the way there.  This won't fly with the end user. 

From a single trade perspective (the end user perspective), you are still here:

(http://i.imgur.com/Lw6qWVp.png)
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: puppies on January 23, 2016, 07:56:36 am
They don't have to string together a series a trades.  If I borrow 1btc from the network at 2x collateral, and then sell that btc into the market I should recover at least half of my collateral.  Although it took an initial outlay of twice the bts, I only have 1 btc worth of bts tied up as collateral.  Until my sell goes through I am not short and no funds are risked.  I can close my borrow position at any time. 

Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: morpheus on January 23, 2016, 03:37:35 pm
They don't have to string together a series a trades.  If I borrow 1btc from the network at 2x collateral, and then sell that btc into the market I should recover at least half of my collateral.  Although it took an initial outlay of twice the bts, I only have 1 btc worth of bts tied up as collateral.  Until my sell goes through I am not short and no funds are risked.  I can close my borrow position at any time.

I get what you are saying but you still need 2x collateral to enter such a position and your max gain is capped at less than 100% while your max loss is still 100%.  Also, to get a 90% gain on the position, you need a 1000% rise in the btc/bts pair.  It just doesn't make sense from a risk/reward perspective.  A lending market will fix this. 
Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: bizzyb on January 23, 2016, 04:37:28 pm
Yep, all goes to confirm outsiders of BTS have no clue what any of you are talking about :)

Keep BTS as beautifully complicated and totally incomprehensible as you want under the surface.

On the surface - Play the cute dumb blonde that is easy to understand & get on with.
Attractive.
Approachable.
Friendly.
Easy ;)

For crypto to have a future we have to be inclusive.

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Title: Re: why bts lack users????????
Post by: xiahui135 on January 24, 2016, 03:27:16 pm
There is no new feature for NEM or ETH, but the price have bening growing 3 times.
We need some time and hard work to prove the system and the community is reliable. That is the reason.