BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: fuzzy on January 25, 2016, 10:49:04 am

Title: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: fuzzy on January 25, 2016, 10:49:04 am
I have been spending alot of time lately reading on these forums posts about how much bitshares is "lacking" and have been struck by the incessant nature of this concern.  So I thought we might do a little exercise to realign our perspectives...

What does bitshares have RIGHT NOW that other cryptos don't offer?  Instead of allowing ourselves to be consumed by "what we don't have", what assets does bitshares have?  This can be projects (like Sharebits.io and Beyondbitcoin.org/net, MetaExchange, Blocktrades, Electron, CCEDK, OPENLEDGER, Bunker Labs, Cryptonomex, Gamebet.gg, Dr. Evans writing white papers on MAS...jeez guys I can do this for too long and I would MISS MOST OF THEM!) or it can be core functionality that nearly all altcoins cannot offer...

Please let us all take a breath focus and think about at least one thing bitshares HAS.  Let's get out of this mindset of scarcity and start thinking with a mindset of abundance--because we DO have an abundance of many valuable things at our disposal if we choose to use them instead of sticking ourselves in an infinite loop of thinking only of what we don't have.

I feel like I'm talking to a buddy with no self-confidence who is sitting next to a single lady who would be perfect for him...just saying "Dude...talk to her!  You are not perfect, but you have so much going for you---if only you could see it!"

(http://i.imgur.com/MwK1XUG.png) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhmcJ7Zg5ko)
From "Swingers" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhmcJ7Zg5ko): Can't go wrong providing with a scene from one of the Classics...
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: EstefanTT on January 25, 2016, 11:13:27 am
 Good spirit Fuzz !

I think we already have an amazing product compared to what exists at the moment.

If every person interested in crypto would have unferstood what BitShares is, they would all of them have invested in it. We would have a much bigger market cap and we wouldn't have these conversations ;p

IMO the tech is good enough to catch the attention of entrepeneurs and crypto fans.

All we need is a simpler explanation. It's way to complexe to understand as our information is set at the moment.
Someone propose to have 2 kind of main web site, one for particular and one for entrepeneurs. That's would be a good start !
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on January 25, 2016, 11:18:15 am
I am reaching out to all sorts of people every day.

 My project is called Chateaux Joint Endeavor and can be found on the exchange: CHATEAUX

Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: fuzzy on January 25, 2016, 11:36:03 am
Quote from: 38PTSWarrior on January 25, 2016, 11:18:15 am
I am reaching out to all sorts of people every day.

 My project is called Chateaux Joint Endeavor and can be found on the exchange: CHATEAUX

Thanks 38!  This is a good start!  Is there a link you can post for people to keep up with your progress?  https://sites.google.com/site/38ptswarrior/
Feel free to let us know of any other products/services/functionality bitshares offers!
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 25, 2016, 01:36:06 pm
The grass is always greener on the other side... but it's not.. http://elitedaily.com/life/3-ways-to-appreciate-what-you-already-have/618668/
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: karnal on January 25, 2016, 01:47:29 pm
Quote from: EstefanTT on January 25, 2016, 11:13:27 am
I think we already have an amazing product compared to what exists at the moment.

If every person interested in crypto would have unferstood what BitShares is, they would all of them have invested in it. We would have a much bigger market cap and we wouldn't have these conversations ;p

I disagree. We have a fully transparent blockchain where privacy doesn't exist and a decentralized exchange that is anything but. We have smartcoins that fail to achieve their goal and recentralization introduced by UIAs.

Now the privacy thing will get sorted out in the near term, but then what?
IMO two of the biggest features of Bitshares (dex & smartcoins) are essentially useless right now.

You can either cheer that we're good enough as it is and leave it at that, or recognize that perhaps a little bit more pushing needs to be done. This should not be discouraging. Sound foundations have been built and work is ongoing, it's alright to recognize there is still some more work to be done.

Think about it. BTS has lost >90% of its value over the last year and a half, smartcoins (except CNY, and CNY is going through a rough patch, so it's a dubious idea to save in CNY right now) simply don't do what they were meant to do, and 3rd party ventures which issue UIAs as a store of value are essentially no better than MtGox or Cryptsy. Wasn't the DEX meant to get us rid of having to *trust* a third party?

If you can't invest in BTS (historically, it's a terrible investment. you and I believe this will change, because we believe in bitshares, but try preaching that to someone outside.. if you can, I have some tulips they may be interested in as well), if you can't store your wealth in a stable medium and if you might as well trade on a centralized exchange because the DEX has for the most part descended into just that, then what motivation is there for another crypto user to switch to bitshares, or for non crypto users to join in?


Really, don't get me wrong, the product IS amazing and groundbreaking, but what we have *right now* is not enough. There is little incentive for other crypto users to switch over, and even less incentive for non crypto users.

When certain features are finalized and the environment changed to suit our purposes, then and only then do I think it's realistic to scream victory.
We are close, but not yet there.

It does not mean that all that has been achieved so far shouldn't be cherished and celebrated. But it is not enough. Yet.
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: emailtooaj on January 25, 2016, 01:56:52 pm
@fuzzy I agree. We need to get the positive chi back into this project.  I feel people still treat this as a "coin" project when in actuality,  it's a "package system" project.  We literally have the building blocks set in place for a full fledged working eco system... for anyone to use and integrate into.  Sure we've got kinks to work out, but if people will choose to focus on what tech we've got today (like you stayed already) then  market cap will take a back seat so we can all focus on the Bitshares vision that we all signed up for. 
As a side note, great job getting sharebot tips out via Twitter to outside devs!  Hope we can get some hits!
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: EstefanTT on January 25, 2016, 02:03:28 pm
I completely agree with you. I probably didn't express myself very good on the matter.

(I roughtly consider that Stealth is already there as it will be in 3-4 weeks.)

I meant that we can start promoting BitShares for what it is now. A powerful, stable and real time Blockchain with endless possibilities and already some nice features in it.  We obviously have to keep envolving and adding features.
The fact that the DEX is empty is because everyone wait for Stealth, bond market, leverage, better GUI, server auto backup, ... to start speaking around about BitShares. That's why I think we could start, carefully on how we sell it, promote Bitshares.

As an example, if we had just focus on promoting BitShares only like Bitcoin but with 3 sec confirmation block, we would have had a much bigger attention from the crypto world. We are already much much MUCH more than that and nothing happen with our market cap. Nobody understand what is BitShares and how it works. There is even a part of the crypto world that thing that we are centralised because we are way too fast to be decentralised.
I say, time to change the perception and understading around our product ! This is our role as a community, not the devs.
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: lil_jay890 on January 25, 2016, 02:11:14 pm
What is one business that can be built on BTS that isn't exchange related?

If there was one example then I think bts would be in a much better place... unfortunately there are none.  I've expressed my view that CNX should layout a potential business plan, and let the community all take a shot at it.  They know the capabilities of the blockchain the best and fostering some early development would see exponential returns later on.  It doesn't seem like CNX wants to demonstrate any of the capabilities of graphene.  Its code that we all hear is "revolutionary" but don't see any evidence of how it is "revolutionary".  Why would an outside dev even waste his time trying to learn the 12th most valuable crypto on cmc?

Right now BTS is a way to save money using a derivative based on a yahoo finance price feed... and it's illiquidity makes it unattractive to savers.  The costs (fee's and spreads) to get in are not doing to price any favors either.
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: Stan on January 25, 2016, 03:55:45 pm
Quote from: fuzzy on January 25, 2016, 10:49:04 am
I have been spending alot of time lately reading on these forums posts about how much bitshares is "lacking" and have been struck by the incessant nature of this concern.  So I thought we might do a little exercise to realign our perspectives...

What does bitshares have RIGHT NOW that other cryptos don't offer?  Instead of allowing ourselves to be consumed by "what we don't have", what assets does bitshares have?  This can be projects (like Sharebits.io and Beyondbitcoin.org/net, MetaExchange, Blocktrades, Electron, CCEDK, OPENLEDGER, Bunker Labs, Cryptonomex, Gamebet.gg, Dr. Evans writing white papers on MAS...jeez guys I can do this for too long and I would MISS MOST OF THEM!) or it can be core functionality that nearly all altcoins cannot offer...

Please let us all take a breath focus and think about at least one thing bitshares HAS.  Let's get out of this mindset of scarcity and start thinking with a mindset of abundance--because we DO have an abundance of many valuable things at our disposal if we choose to use them instead of sticking ourselves in an infinite loop of thinking only of what we don't have.

I feel like I'm talking to a buddy with no self-confidence who is sitting next to a single lady who would be perfect for him...just saying "Dude...talk to her!  You are not perfect, but you have so much going for you---if only you could see it!"

(http://i.imgur.com/MwK1XUG.png) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhmcJ7Zg5ko)
From "Swingers" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhmcJ7Zg5ko): Can't go wrong providing with a scene from one of the Classics...

Thank's Fuzzy.  This attitude adjustment is badly needed.

I wonder how many new people we lose who come here based on somone's marketing post only to find out that the (vocal) community thinks the glass is half empty instead of half full.

I'd suggest that, if you think something is missing in the half empty part of the glass, turn it around and start a positive thread designed to attract investors and entrepreneurs to the idea.

Negativity breeds negativity.
Enthusiasm breeds enthusiasm.

My project for the year is to attract third party developers to bring resources and talent to the ecosystem.  I'm optimistic about the potential.

But, I could use a little help here.  :)

Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: Ben Mason on January 25, 2016, 04:31:24 pm
Fuzzy, I've flown from one side of this planet to the other and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe that there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. On the other han, the blockchain may grow to control all our destinies. BitSharians must have the deepest commitment, the most serious minds and use the blockchain for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

We  must unlearn what we have learned for many of the truths that we cling to, depend on our point of view.

Size matters not. Look at BitShares. Judge it by it's market cap do you? Hmm? Hmm? And well you should not. For our ally is the blockchain and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy will surround us and bind us. We will find only what we bring in.

May the blockchain be with you.

Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: donkeypong on January 25, 2016, 04:44:52 pm
I am grateful every day. This is a transformative technology that can improve the world in many, many ways. I guess I have a different perspective on the forum, because to me criticism (if it's done well) is usually a good thing. When you're only self-congratulatory about what you have achieved, that is when progress slows to a standstill. There is little reason to improve or strive for the next level. I see constructive criticism as absolutely mission critical unless one feels that we've already earned the right to be complacent. I've very much enjoyed reading peoples' thoughts on how we can improve (which, I suppose, is easy enough for me to say since I'm not in the developers' shoes). If some people take constructive criticism the wrong way, then I'm sorry, but a thick skin serves everyone far better in the long run. For what it's worth, I have done an awful lot of positive posting in the last couple of years, probably the majority of my posts have been extolling the virtues of BitShares and what it can achieve. I have personally thanked some of the devs.

Rather than celebrate achievements, I think the most positive contribution is to identify practical uses. Empirical put together a GREAT list here:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21115.msg274117.html#msg274117 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21115.msg274117.html#msg274117)
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: fuzzy on January 25, 2016, 04:59:15 pm
i dont disagree here actually donkey but id like you to take a look and see that many posts these days are not talking solutions and seem to go nowhere toward us actually CHANGING anything.  We need to discuss and be honest about our capabilities.  im simply saying that before you say we need a more compelling use case you recognize that the tech and bitcoin have met a face reality moment and have tx speeds and scalability issues known in crypto...and it hasnt stopped them from reaching out and making meaningful connections that have ended in 1st gen mined tokens that jettison past us in marketcap. 

please dont take my message as saying we have to be idiotically and irrationally positive or we are harming bitshares.  im saying the honest damned truth...noone has as fast or scalable a blockchain. In terms of payment use cases that still puts us far ahead of other cryptos!

We have MANY things worth selling to the outside world and should never allow our considerations of ehat we lack serve as justification for not taking the bull by the horns.
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: Ben Mason on January 25, 2016, 07:37:26 pm
Not least in a long long line of things worth selling about BitShares and this network is the vision, perhaps the most important objective. A world with secured digital information, reaching and sustaining systemic integrity. We should be proclaiming this vision everywhere and connecting with people who share that vision or desperately need a world in which that vision lives and breathes.

This will change everything. This will unlock human potential that until now, has been crushed to a crawl.

BitShares may not be there yet, but we're a darn sight closer. Those still working, still producing are getting smarter, faster, more resilient, more determined. More will come for the vision. They will pick up what others have started and  will be implacable in their pursuit of the vision.....because they must, because nothing else makes sense.

When blockchain became a reality, the seed of an idea was born. Finally, the world can be a better place. 
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: happybit on January 26, 2016, 04:44:59 am
I love how the focus is on the POSITIVE HERE!!!!

I have single-handedly brought in about 5 new people in the last month who bought bitshares, 2 of them are developers who are looking at it with interest.  (both were extremely critical of BTS before... but after my re-introduction, they are convincing themselves)

my point:

BITSHARES SELLS ITSELF!!!

I LOVE THIS PROJECT!!!

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE!  Keep INTRODUCING IT to the world... the rest is easy!

(http://i.imgur.com/3W40lB3.png)
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: testz on January 26, 2016, 08:09:27 am
Quote from: happybit on January 26, 2016, 04:44:59 am
BITSHARES SELLS ITSELF!!!

 +5%
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on January 26, 2016, 02:53:21 pm
Quote from: fuzzy on January 25, 2016, 11:36:03 am
Quote from: 38PTSWarrior on January 25, 2016, 11:18:15 am
I am reaching out to all sorts of people every day.

 My project is called Chateaux Joint Endeavor and can be found on the exchange: CHATEAUX

Thanks 38!  This is a good start!  Is there a link you can post for people to keep up with your progress?  https://sites.google.com/site/38ptswarrior/
Feel free to let us know of any other products/services/functionality bitshares offers!
I cannot change the content at the moment.

Because of lack of support I will stop my forum activity.

I don't want to risk losing my edge and am looking for a new community.
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: fuzzy on January 26, 2016, 07:42:53 pm
Quote from: 38PTSWarrior on January 26, 2016, 02:53:21 pm
Quote from: fuzzy on January 25, 2016, 11:36:03 am
Quote from: 38PTSWarrior on January 25, 2016, 11:18:15 am
I am reaching out to all sorts of people every day.

 My project is called Chateaux Joint Endeavor and can be found on the exchange: CHATEAUX

Thanks 38!  This is a good start!  Is there a link you can post for people to keep up with your progress?  https://sites.google.com/site/38ptswarrior/
Feel free to let us know of any other products/services/functionality bitshares offers!
I cannot change the content at the moment.

Because of lack of support I will stop my forum activity.

I don't want to risk losing my edge and am looking for a new community.

why? i have already asked you if we could show off your work for beyond bitcoin and you said no.  the offer is still open to post your interviews...cause i watch them :P
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on January 26, 2016, 08:02:46 pm
Quote from: fuzzy on January 26, 2016, 07:42:53 pm
Quote from: 38PTSWarrior on January 26, 2016, 02:53:21 pm
Quote from: fuzzy on January 25, 2016, 11:36:03 am
Quote from: 38PTSWarrior on January 25, 2016, 11:18:15 am
I am reaching out to all sorts of people every day.

 My project is called Chateaux Joint Endeavor and can be found on the exchange: CHATEAUX

Thanks 38!  This is a good start!  Is there a link you can post for people to keep up with your progress?  https://sites.google.com/site/38ptswarrior/
Feel free to let us know of any other products/services/functionality bitshares offers!
I cannot change the content at the moment.

Because of lack of support I will stop my forum activity.

I don't want to risk losing my edge and am looking for a new community.

why? i have already asked you if we could show off your work for beyond bitcoin and you said no.  the offer is still open to post your interviews...cause i watch them[emoji14]
I think I only need a holiday. Like a week or so. Slept outside last night without sleeping bag. Cu in a week or 10 days.
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on January 30, 2016, 10:59:57 am
@fuzzy
You can use any material you want for BB and don't have to ask me.
What I mean is that when I make a new user, it is important that they get attention. For example sending them a single token to say 'hi'.
A team wich immediately explains them how they can use bts for their situation.
And it is not you I meant. You are one user who supports me already. I mean everyone else.

The people see my great work just to go on the forum and see that nobody cares about me and them.

I am now looking for money to make flyers etc.
If the people think that my work should be treated like every other marketer so may it be.
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: fuzzy on January 30, 2016, 06:35:05 pm
Quote from: 38PTSWarrior on January 30, 2016, 10:59:57 am
@fuzzy
You can use any material you want for BB and don't have to ask me.
What I mean is that when I make a new user, it is important that they get attention. For example sending them a single token to say 'hi'.
A team wich immediately explains them how they can use bts for their situation.
And it is not you I meant. You are one user who supports me already. I mean everyone else.

The people see my great work just to go on the forum and see that nobody cares about me and them.

I am now looking for money to make flyers etc.
If the people think that my work should be treated like every other marketer so may it be.

dont spend good money on flyers bro.  you have a sharebot that lets you send people tokens right to their phone! practice with me and ill help you learn to use the sharebot. 
When we get a mobile webwallet people can easily use--or if you target people already on laptops (like, say, at a coffee booth???? CHATEUX...cough...cough) you could do it today. 

Here (if i have the funds in my account atm):
#sharebits "38PTSWarrior" 5000 TRYBITSHARES

if anyone wants to support our effort here just put in small buy orders (whatever you can afford) to TRYBITSHARES (i personally will be putting my orders in at 1bts for every 10tbts, join us in passing them out...or both!
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: btstip on January 30, 2016, 06:35:59 pm
Hey fuzzy, here are the results of your tips...
Curious about ShareBits? Visit us at http://sharebits.io and start tipping BTS on https://bitsharestalk.org/ today!
Source: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21161.msg275773/topicseen.html#msg275773
Created by hybridd (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40140)
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on January 30, 2016, 06:45:53 pm
I am sending already every new user around 250 BTS.

The newest user of today is 'jimbojuize1'

The user is impressed about the transaction speed. Now send him some tokens of your choice everybody and make him feel good.

Fuzzy, how do you mean that? Does a user have to open an account already or how would you use the sharebot?
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: xeroc on January 30, 2016, 06:57:06 pm
Show them the testnet.bitshates.eu .. no token there will cost you anything and users get 1mio TEST on registration
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: 38PTSWarrior on January 30, 2016, 07:14:14 pm
Quote from: xeroc on January 30, 2016, 06:57:06 pm
Show them the testnet.bitshates.eu .. no token there will cost you anything and users get 1mio TEST on registration
Got it, thx
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: bitacer on January 30, 2016, 08:51:50 pm
Multi-sig permissions, stealth, dex all awesome but uncollateralized assets are not, I came to conclusion that those assets cause dilution.
Title: Re: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: xeroc on January 31, 2016, 12:15:49 am
Quote from: bitacer on January 30, 2016, 08:51:50 pm
Multi-sig permissions, stealth, dex all awesome but uncollateralized assets are not, I came to conclusion that those assets cause dilution.
???
How so?
Title: DarkSide or LightSide?
Post by: bitacer on January 31, 2016, 08:39:30 am
Multiplying the means  does not add much to the ecosystem. Fundamentals should stay as simple as possible. There is only one way to increase value of BTS and that is by providing utility which should be aimed at attracting more users-- I dont mean crypto crowd. If you are familiar with F. Bastiat I recommend his essay "What is Money".