BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: TravelsAsia on March 23, 2016, 11:20:26 am
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If this is just a crazy idea, I apologize. During the Lisk IPO, over 15,000 BTC was raised. There's a lot of people that are obviously interesting in trading Lisk, however, due to the ability to claim Lisk keys through email, the developers recommend not selling Lisk accounts prior to the official wallet release. In other words, Lisk holders will have their thumbs up their butt for at least another 3 weeks.
Could a market maker issue tokens (similar to Gatecoin for Augur) and maybe back it with collateral escrow on the dex? If we could somehow initiate trading, we would see an influx of new traders immediately. Maybe it's not possible, just throwing it out there.
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All you need is a group of people that hold LISK from the crowdsale and that can be trusted .. then you can do the same thing as Ethercoin did pre-Ethereum genesis
There is another project doing this for REP/Augur: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22032.new.html#new
However, this obviously involves an IOU and thus has counterparty risk
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Not a bad idea really:
1. Everyone here pledge some of Lisk (that we will be compensated for at the average selling price when Lisk becomes liquid).
2. Someone (call him the Orchestrator), creates a UIA from the total pool and builds a market in bitUSD like this:
1000 bitLisk at 0.10 bitUSD each
2000 bitLisk at 0.15 bitUSD each
3000 bitLisk at 0.20 bitUSD each
4000 bitLisk at 0.25 bitUSD each
etc.
This will create a buzz around the BitShares platform for the next three weeks that is worth it's weight in bitGOLD
This will make people try the BitShares wallet and experience the kickass-ness first hand.
Then when the Lisk is liquid, all of us who pledged Lisk, send them to the Orchestrator who sends the winners their Lisk as the owners of bitLisk redeem them for the real thing. The Orchestrator sends us bitUSD (average selling price) for our Lisk.
To make this easier for the orchestrator we can make 1 bitLisk redeemable for something larger like 100 Lisk, so that there are not a million redeemers who want Lisk dust.
If we are lucky, those who buy bitLisk will try to resell it on the market before the Lisk becomes liquid, and we will have a fully functioning free market of Lisk/bitUSD that we can brag about and create buzz, and teach people about BitShares.
To compensate the Orchestrator, we can all pitch in and pay him like $xxx
I know that Ander said that he bought some, and I would pledge some. Who else would pledge some, and who wants to be the Orchestrator (tell us your fee).
Overall, great idea. All we have to do to teach the world about BitShares is to pool risk.
This is an effective way to leverage all the buzz created by the Lisk team before they become the world's largest DPOS cryptocurrency. The best case scenario is that we remain the world's largest DPOS after Lisk launches.
What do you say guys?
Who's up to defend our first mover advantage?
But overall, it looks like a DPOS community helping another DPOS community, bringing buzz to us all!
TO INFINITY AND BEYONDDDDDDD BITCOINNNNNN
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHLrdoUUYAAd9SF.jpg:large)
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Iou is not worth the risk. Do no, there's no creative way to trade something you have no way of proof of hodl
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Not worth the risk?
Dude, what the fuk r u smoking, and can you please pass it on over! You're obviously not getting it. What is 700 wallet downloads worth to us right now?! Or 200 new unique people learning how to use BitShares. Or 20 people getting hooked on mainlining smartcoins worth?!?!?!?! Ever hear of "marketing"??
Yes, you are correct that there is no way to prove that we are going to send the Lisk to the buyers of bitLisk.
and Yes, our "Orchestrator" can just run off with the bitUSD that the purchasers of bitLisk sent him.
But if the Orchestrator is, say for instance, Fuzzy, and we restrict the people allowed to pledge to those of us who told us their address:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwuANB1Syo#t=5m56s
Then, if anyone gets scammed here, the next BitShares road trip will be a video of me and Tuck driving to Philly and kicking soms bitAsshole's ass!!
Get it.
We leverage the trust that we have built up within our community, against the hype brought forth by the Lisk developers to create BITSHARZZ buzz!
What's the matter, don't you trust Fuzzy?
You calling Riverhead a liar and a thief?
I trust those guys. Do you?
And what is that trust worth, and what can we use it for ?
And what can we gain by putting it to the test?
If we can't even hold a simple risk pool among our community, then how can we expect people to trust our "federation of delegates" which is the heart of our "trustless" network!
If we don't trust our community then no one will.
The trust of our community is our greatest asset, and I would have to say that it is currently underutilized. Disagree with that statement!
Should we stop trusting Stan and Dan?
What about Fuck the Man?
The reason why there is no Lisk market currently is because there is no trustworthy group of people supporting one. Trustworthy groups are hard to find. and if you had a trustworthy group today, then you could do something unprecedented (create a Lisk market and get every troll on the trollbox talking about BTS)(duh?). Gee where can I find a trustworthy community....Geee let me think....If I only had a trustworthy community, then I could bring new users to BitShares..... hmmmmm...
Are we trustworthy?
What is our community's reputation worth?
Let's find out. The higher the price of Lisk rises, the more people trust our "federation of servers" that lies at the core of BitShares
And take another step back further, what are we talking about :
a few hundred bucks for a few hundred wallet downloads?
hell, that's worth it for the exposure alone!
Hell, if Fuzzy runs off with the $400 kitty, never to be seen from again, I'm sure that me, uncle onceuponatime, Tuck, Ronny, Cob, KenCode, and maybe even the great superfan Stan himself could pool together the difference just to save the community the embarrassment!
Why on earth would Stan screw us? He's the hippest cat I know:
http://www.popsugar.com/tech/Popular-Internet-Slang-Words-37912438#photo-37912463
so chillax poopers, I'm trying to party here
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cdB7UslgAEE/TbcXq8Foy0I/AAAAAAAAAUE/0MsE8xuwuKY/s1600/ariannyatthepool3.jpg)
relax
it's all right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk8RuIM2NmA#t=56s
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I like this. It would give us exposure and flag us as a trustworthy community. However, by the time Lisk is on exchanges, we need to have a gateway working, otherwise you know what kind of accusations we will get, plus we need Lisk holders that are willing to sell.
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I like this. It would give us exposure and flag us as a trustworthy community. However, by the time Lisk is on exchanges, we need to have a gateway working, otherwise you know what kind of accusations we will get, plus we need Lisk holders that are willing to sell.
No, we just need to act quickly when Lisk becomes liquid, and get them their product manually, we don't need anything fancy.
Yeah, it's not "automated" or "trustless"
in fact it's "manual" and "boring slow"
but it's effective, and gets the job done: (puts the BitShares wallet into many new hands, and provides a useful service by getting Lisk into their hands too)
It's good old fashioned grass roots marketing.
Who's up to the task.
If we act now, we can claim Lisk market exclusivity for at least 2 weeks!!
2 weeks of promotion!!!
I'd pony up a couple thousand Lisk for this. You could even have shady characters like myself send Fuzzy or whoever the orchestrator is some BTS to hold for collateral just in case I don't pay up and skip town never to be heard from again (reduce the risk on the Orchestrator by those of us who want to see BTS pumped but don't want to put up any Lisk or just plain don't have any ;)
Because I really don't give a shit about Lisk, I just want to market BTS!
But I did buy Lisk. Why?
Because DPOS kicks fuckinass!
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@Ander didn't you have some? @21xhipster do you?
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All you need is a group of people that hold LISK from the crowdsale and that can be trusted .. then you can do the same thing as Ethercoin did pre-Ethereum genesis
There is another project doing this for REP/Augur: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22032.new.html#new
However, this obviously involves an IOU and thus has counterparty risk
Could the trusted party be required to put up BTC in escrow as a form of collateral? I would want to give reassurance that the Lisk market makers lose if they don't fulfill their obligation.
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All you need is a group of people that hold LISK from the crowdsale and that can be trusted .. then you can do the same thing as Ethercoin did pre-Ethereum genesis
There is another project doing this for REP/Augur: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22032.new.html#new
However, this obviously involves an IOU and thus has counterparty risk
Could the trusted party be required to put up BTC in escrow as a form of collateral? I would want to give reassurance that the Lisk market makers lose if they don't fulfill their obligation.
I'd pony up a couple thousand Lisk for this. You could even have shady characters like myself send Fuzzy or whoever the orchestrator is some BTS to hold for collateral just in case I don't pay up and skip town never to be heard from again (reduce the risk on the Orchestrator by those of us who want to see BTS pumped but don't want to put up any Lisk or just plain don't have any ;)
We could do an escrow type thing to help bring more liquidity into our Lisk/bitUSD market.
But as far as finding enough Lisk holders in this community, well it shouldn't be hard because many here loved Lisk back when it was called "Mini DPOS" or "Crypti"
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Something close to 3500 people contributed, I'd love to get even 5% of those people learninget about our offering. It seems like a huge marketing opportunity.
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What's Dad, I mean Dan always saying to us:
"We need to focus on the problems that only BitShares can solve"
That way, we have a monopoly (well, at least for 3 weeks!)
Right now, there are more "Lisk" threads on bitcointalk than "Monero" threads!
It's clearly the hottest coin in the world, because it is billed as "Ethereum (with actual dapps)(and powered by DPOS!). Some are saying that because Lisk already has real dapps in its dappstore, that it will rise higher than Ethereum.
The question is:
does the BitShares community want some cheap buzz?
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I guess this wont be done
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@Ander didn't you have some? @21xhipster do you?
I doubt my 2-3 btc of Lisk will go very far in this, plus I dont want to sell them.
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@Ander didn't you have some? @21xhipster do you?
I doubt my 2-3 btc of Lisk will go very far in this, plus I dont want to sell them.
Well, you could always place them for sell at a high price, which you're comfortable with. I have a few also but it's a tiny amount so it wouldn't do much I guess, would need to pool them together with someone else.
What if we could have people "donate" 500 or 1000 lisk each, it doesn't seem like a huge amount, for this cause? And the UIA owner - someone trustworthy - would place the sells at the price each donor asked him to. Then at the end he could redeem them for real lisk. Assuming donors are also trustworthy.
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Someone take the charge and just do it. ;)
I'd chip in my Lisk as well +5%
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Someone take the charge and just do it. ;)
I'd chip in my Lisk as well +5%
Yeah I was sort of hoping the same. I can give a few and even pay the asset registration fee assuming it's only those 4k or 5k, but would prefer if someone with more experience on this kind of stuff could handle it.
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Someone take the charge and just do it. ;)
I'd chip in my Lisk as well +5%
I would also be willing to chip in some LISK (perhaps up to 1 BTC worth) if someone takes the reins on this.
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Not a bad idea really:
1. Everyone here pledge some of Lisk (that we will be compensated for at the average selling price when Lisk becomes liquid).
2. Someone (call him the Orchestrator), creates a UIA from the total pool and builds a market in bitUSD like this:
1000 bitLisk at 0.10 bitUSD each
2000 bitLisk at 0.15 bitUSD each
3000 bitLisk at 0.20 bitUSD each
4000 bitLisk at 0.25 bitUSD each
etc.
IMO this cannot work. What if all coins will be sold instantly in the beginning? If you cannot prove that you posses something, you should not be able to sell it.
Of course we can create bitLisk... and you can create new bitLisk with BTS as collateral... but I guess, at the beginning there will be not to many shorters.
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Not a bad idea really:
1. Everyone here pledge some of Lisk (that we will be compensated for at the average selling price when Lisk becomes liquid).
2. Someone (call him the Orchestrator), creates a UIA from the total pool and builds a market in bitUSD like this:
1000 bitLisk at 0.10 bitUSD each
2000 bitLisk at 0.15 bitUSD each
3000 bitLisk at 0.20 bitUSD each
4000 bitLisk at 0.25 bitUSD each
etc.
IMO this cannot work. What if all coins will be sold instantly in the beginning? If you cannot prove that you posses something, you should not be able to sell it.
Of course we can create bitLisk... and you can create new bitLisk with BTS as collateral... but I guess, at the beginning there will be not to many shorters.
BitLisk might be an option.
If the price longs offer is above the ICO price, then people that hold actual Lisk would be willing to short a bit of BitLisk to hedge.
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@Ander didn't you have some? @21xhipster do you?
I bought some, but I have a lot of concerns not about technology but about persons.
https://blog.cyber.fund/on-transparency-of-initial-coin-offerings-5501bd9138b1
Also I had very strange conversation with Max (https://forum.lisk.io/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=92) and now I am not sure that this is a proper team to raise this kind of techonology
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Everyone in crypto now knows the name of the only exchange that has Lisk UIAs for sale
Good thing that name aint "BitShares"
and it ain't 3 weeks ago
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0
and fuznuts is trying to get people to click here:?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1429439.0
without and bitLisk for sale?
good luck
because at marketing
u suck
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
If there was a BitLISK, ICO LISK holders could just short it.
In terms of CCDEK yes that could be successful too. He could make a fortune right now. I would pay a 20% commission to sell some of my LISK at anything near YoBit prices.
Ronny could offer LISK for Sale on CCEDK and then credit it to LISK ICO owning forum members based on a combination of trust and collateral as well as not letting them withdraw the BTC from their account until they've sent actual LISK to the exchange once it's launched.
So for example he could say I trust you're good for 10 000 LISK Empirical1.2. I will credit your account with 8000 LISK which you can sell. However the account will be locked for withdrawals until you deposit 10 000 LISK which must be done within 72 hours of when LISK officially begins trading.
Ronny could easily get 300 000 LISK which could be put up for sale. At current YoBit prices 20% commission on that would be $500 000 profit for CCEDK in a matter of weeks.
(The high commission also allows for a high failure rate even amongst trusted members of this community and as prices are clearly inflated at the moment even if a small % of people failed to provide actual LISK the BTC they would have received for them in their locked account should more than cover the purchase of actual LISK once trading if required.)
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
If there was a BitLISK, ICO LISK holders could just short it.
In terms of CCDEK yes that could be successful too. He could make a fortune right now. I would pay a 20% commission to sell some of my LISK at anything near YoBit prices.
Ronny could offer LISK for Sale on CCEDK and then credit it to LISK ICO owning forum members based on a combination of trust and collateral as well as not letting them withdraw the BTC from their account until they've sent actual LISK to the exchange once it's launched.
So for example he could say I trust you're good for 10 000 LISK Empirical1.2. I will credit your account with 8000 LISK which you can sell. However the account will be locked for withdrawals until you deposit 10 000 LISK which must be done within 72 hours of when LISK officially begins trading.
Ronny could easily get 300 000 LISK which could be put up for sale. At current YoBit prices 20% commission on that would be $500 000 profit for CCEDK in a matter of weeks.
(The high commission also allows for a high failure rate even amongst trusted members of this community and as prices are clearly inflated at the moment even if a small % of people failed to provide actual LISK the BTC they would have received for them in their locked account should more than cover the purchase of actual LISK once trading if required.)
Yes, pretty much my sentiments. Although personally, I was thinking of a lower commission since I'm willing to put up some collateral and give him a screenshot of my Lisk ICO exchanges. But yes, I think among some of the members of the community who have established some reputation, we could come up with a nice chunk of Lisk to enable a nice little market to trade on the DEX.
Regarding the BitLisk option, I'm just wondering how we would explain to people (especially outside this community) that they can trust this asset that we just shorted into existence all of a sudden. I mean, it's not issued by the blockchain, the issuer is not a trusted organization, and this particular asset would have no track record in the marketplace. That doesn't mean people wouldn't buy into it or that it wouldn't work. And of course if it did work, it would be awesome for us on several levels. I'm just having a hard time getting my head around it.
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
If there was a BitLISK, ICO LISK holders could just short it.
In terms of CCDEK yes that could be successful too. He could make a fortune right now. I would pay a 20% commission to sell some of my LISK at anything near YoBit prices.
Ronny could offer LISK for Sale on CCEDK and then credit it to LISK ICO owning forum members based on a combination of trust and collateral as well as not letting them withdraw the BTC from their account until they've sent actual LISK to the exchange once it's launched.
So for example he could say I trust you're good for 10 000 LISK Empirical1.2. I will credit your account with 8000 LISK which you can sell. However the account will be locked for withdrawals until you deposit 10 000 LISK which must be done within 72 hours of when LISK officially begins trading.
Ronny could easily get 300 000 LISK which could be put up for sale. At current YoBit prices 20% commission on that would be $500 000 profit for CCEDK in a matter of weeks.
(The high commission also allows for a high failure rate even amongst trusted members of this community and as prices are clearly inflated at the moment even if a small % of people failed to provide actual LISK the BTC they would have received for them in their locked account should more than cover the purchase of actual LISK once trading if required.)
Yes, pretty much my sentiments. Although personally, I was thinking of a lower commission since I'm willing to put up some collateral and give him a screenshot of my Lisk ICO exchanges. But yes, I think among some of the members of the community who have established some reputation, we could come up with a nice chunk of Lisk to enable a nice little market to trade on the DEX.
Regarding the BitLisk option, I'm just wondering how we would explain to people (especially outside this community) that they can trust this asset that we just shorted into existence all of a sudden. I mean, it's not issued by the blockchain, the issuer is not a trusted organization, and this particular asset would have no track record in the marketplace. That doesn't mean people wouldn't buy into it or that it wouldn't work. And of course if it did work, it would be awesome for us on several levels. I'm just having a hard time getting my head around it.
Yeah I would be willing to provide collateral and ICO screenshots too. But I would pay 20% commission at these prices any day of the week.
In terms of BitLISK. I imagine people would be willing to short it at far lower than YoBit prices which means the incentive to be a buyer & take that risk would be that you could get it for much cheaper than elsewhere at this stage. With the knowledge that you could redeem it 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS once LISK trading starts. I think there'll be a market for it but as I say maybe some other people have some opinions on it, there's often things i miss.
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
If there was a BitLISK, ICO LISK holders could just short it.
In terms of CCDEK yes that could be successful too. He could make a fortune right now. I would pay a 20% commission to sell some of my LISK at anything near YoBit prices.
Ronny could offer LISK for Sale on CCEDK and then credit it to LISK ICO owning forum members based on a combination of trust and collateral as well as not letting them withdraw the BTC from their account until they've sent actual LISK to the exchange once it's launched.
So for example he could say I trust you're good for 10 000 LISK Empirical1.2. I will credit your account with 8000 LISK which you can sell. However the account will be locked for withdrawals until you deposit 10 000 LISK which must be done within 72 hours of when LISK officially begins trading.
Ronny could easily get 300 000 LISK which could be put up for sale. At current YoBit prices 20% commission on that would be $500 000 profit for CCEDK in a matter of weeks.
(The high commission also allows for a high failure rate even amongst trusted members of this community and as prices are clearly inflated at the moment even if a small % of people failed to provide actual LISK the BTC they would have received for them in their locked account should more than cover the purchase of actual LISK once trading if required.)
Yes, pretty much my sentiments. Although personally, I was thinking of a lower commission since I'm willing to put up some collateral and give him a screenshot of my Lisk ICO exchanges. But yes, I think among some of the members of the community who have established some reputation, we could come up with a nice chunk of Lisk to enable a nice little market to trade on the DEX.
Regarding the BitLisk option, I'm just wondering how we would explain to people (especially outside this community) that they can trust this asset that we just shorted into existence all of a sudden. I mean, it's not issued by the blockchain, the issuer is not a trusted organization, and this particular asset would have no track record in the marketplace. That doesn't mean people wouldn't buy into it or that it wouldn't work. And of course if it did work, it would be awesome for us on several levels. I'm just having a hard time getting my head around it.
Yeah I would be willing to provide collateral and ICO screenshots too. But I would pay 20% commission at these prices any day of the week.
In terms of BitLISK. I imagine people would be willing to short it at far lower than YoBit prices which means the incentive to be a buyer & take that risk would be that you could get it for much cheaper than elsewhere at this stage. With the knowledge that you could redeem it 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS once LISK trading starts. I think there'll be a market for it but as I say maybe some other people have some opinions on it, there's often things i miss.
Ok, so walk me through this. What absolutely guarantees that they will be able to redeem 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS? Forced settlement? What are the potential pitfalls there? What if the market becomes extremely volatile and there isn't a lot of liquidity? What is the risk for those of us shorting BitLISK into existence, both before and after price feeds become available and forced settlement must be instituted?
As for the price feeds, so they would be coming from external Lisk:BTC markets once real LISK trading begins, correct? Does that mean that BitLISK needs to trade against BTC? Would it be BitBTC? OPEN.BTC? What about BTS? I imagine it would be best if it was not fragmented among multiple pairs. But if it was BTS, how would that work with the Lisk:BTC price feeds? Don't worry about answering that if you think it should only trade against some version of BTC.
By the way, what prevents people that don't have ICO Lisk keys from shorting BitLISK? Ok, I guess that doesn't matter as long as they have enough collateral. But again, I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around that. Enough collateral based on what? And would people trust that it's properly collateralized?
I'm certainly not shooting the idea of BitLISK down. I'm just trying to get comfortable with it. It would be amazing if this could work. And I appreciate you advancing the idea.
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There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
If there was a BitLISK, ICO LISK holders could just short it.
In terms of CCDEK yes that could be successful too. He could make a fortune right now. I would pay a 20% commission to sell some of my LISK at anything near YoBit prices.
Ronny could offer LISK for Sale on CCEDK and then credit it to LISK ICO owning forum members based on a combination of trust and collateral as well as not letting them withdraw the BTC from their account until they've sent actual LISK to the exchange once it's launched.
So for example he could say I trust you're good for 10 000 LISK Empirical1.2. I will credit your account with 8000 LISK which you can sell. However the account will be locked for withdrawals until you deposit 10 000 LISK which must be done within 72 hours of when LISK officially begins trading.
Ronny could easily get 300 000 LISK which could be put up for sale. At current YoBit prices 20% commission on that would be $500 000 profit for CCEDK in a matter of weeks.
(The high commission also allows for a high failure rate even amongst trusted members of this community and as prices are clearly inflated at the moment even if a small % of people failed to provide actual LISK the BTC they would have received for them in their locked account should more than cover the purchase of actual LISK once trading if required.)
Yes, pretty much my sentiments. Although personally, I was thinking of a lower commission since I'm willing to put up some collateral and give him a screenshot of my Lisk ICO exchanges. But yes, I think among some of the members of the community who have established some reputation, we could come up with a nice chunk of Lisk to enable a nice little market to trade on the DEX.
Regarding the BitLisk option, I'm just wondering how we would explain to people (especially outside this community) that they can trust this asset that we just shorted into existence all of a sudden. I mean, it's not issued by the blockchain, the issuer is not a trusted organization, and this particular asset would have no track record in the marketplace. That doesn't mean people wouldn't buy into it or that it wouldn't work. And of course if it did work, it would be awesome for us on several levels. I'm just having a hard time getting my head around it.
Yeah I would be willing to provide collateral and ICO screenshots too. But I would pay 20% commission at these prices any day of the week.
In terms of BitLISK. I imagine people would be willing to short it at far lower than YoBit prices which means the incentive to be a buyer & take that risk would be that you could get it for much cheaper than elsewhere at this stage. With the knowledge that you could redeem it 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS once LISK trading starts. I think there'll be a market for it but as I say maybe some other people have some opinions on it, there's often things i miss.
Ok, so walk me through this. What absolutely guarantees that they will be able to redeem 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS? Forced settlement? What are the potential pitfalls there? What if the market becomes extremely volatile and there isn't a lot of liquidity? What is the risk for those of us shorting BitLISK into existence, both before and after price feeds become available and forced settlement must be instituted?
As for the price feeds, so they would be coming from external Lisk:BTC markets once real LISK trading begins, correct? Does that mean that BitLISK needs to trade against BTC? Would it be BitBTC? OPEN.BTC? What about BTS? I imagine it would be best if it was not fragmented among multiple pairs. But if it was BTS, how would that work with the Lisk:BTC price feeds? Don't worry about answering that if you think it should only trade against some version of BTC.
By the way, what prevents people that don't have ICO Lisk keys from shorting BitLISK? Ok, I guess that doesn't matter as long as they have enough collateral. But again, I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around that. Enough collateral based on what? And would people trust that it's properly collateralized?
I'm certainly not shooting the idea of BitLISK down. I'm just trying to get comfortable with it. It would be amazing if this could work. And I appreciate you advancing the idea.
I think this is how it works. Say for example we used the YoBit LISK price as the price feed https://yobit.net/en/trade/LISK/BTC with a forced settlement offest of zero.
Then you can either make a BitLISK/BitBTC market in which case you would need to buy BitBTC with BTS first to either buy BitLISK or short it https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/BTC_BTS
Or you could create a BitLISK/BTS market and I 'think' using the BTS/BTC price feed it should be able to calculate where forced settlement should be on that market too and then you could buy BitLISK with BTS or short it with BTS.
Then you can offer to buy BitLisk if there was a willing shorter. Once you own it you could either sell it for BTS to someone else wishing to buy it or you could request forced settlement which would convert your BitLISK to BTS or BitBTC based on the YoBit price in 24 hours taken from the least collateralized short.
So the option is to use the YoBit price feed for now and and add more price feeds as they become available or use no price feeds for now, meaning that you will only be able to use the forced settlement function once there are feeds in a couple of weeks. If you bough BitLISK in that time you would only be able to get BTS for it by selling it to another willing buyer.
I think that's how it all works, but I don't use BitAssets very much.
https://bitshares.org/technology/price-stable-cryptocurrencies/
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@bytemaster, this could be a great opportunity to gain exposure and users for the DEX. Can you chime in on the idea of creating a BitLISK market-pegged asset? Do you have any thoughts about whether it would make most sense for it to trade against BTS, BitBTC, or OPEN.BTC? Also, should it use a price feed from YObit.net, which is the one somewhat established exchange where it currently trades? Or considering that the YObit market for LISK is obviously limited-supply, would it be better to go without a price feed until LISK starts trading widely? If would be amazing on multiple levels if we could get this to work. Thanks.
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Ok, so walk me through this. What absolutely guarantees that they will be able to redeem 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS? Forced settlement? What are the potential pitfalls there? What if the market becomes extremely volatile and there isn't a lot of liquidity? What is the risk for those of us shorting BitLISK into existence, both before and after price feeds become available and forced settlement must be instituted?
As for the price feeds, so they would be coming from external Lisk:BTC markets once real LISK trading begins, correct? Does that mean that BitLISK needs to trade against BTC? Would it be BitBTC? OPEN.BTC? What about BTS? I imagine it would be best if it was not fragmented among multiple pairs. But if it was BTS, how would that work with the Lisk:BTC price feeds? Don't worry about answering that if you think it should only trade against some version of BTC.
By the way, what prevents people that don't have ICO Lisk keys from shorting BitLISK? Ok, I guess that doesn't matter as long as they have enough collateral. But again, I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around that. Enough collateral based on what? And would people trust that it's properly collateralized?
I'm certainly not shooting the idea of BitLISK down. I'm just trying to get comfortable with it. It would be amazing if this could work. And I appreciate you advancing the idea.
I think this is how it works. Say for example we used the YoBit LISK price as the price feed https://yobit.net/en/trade/LISK/BTC with a forced settlement offest of zero.
Then you can either make a BitLISK/BitBTC market in which case you would need to buy BitBTC with BTS first to either buy BitLISK or short it https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/BTC_BTS
Or you could create a BitLISK/BTS market and I 'think' using the BTS/BTC price feed it should be able to calculate where forced settlement should be on that market too and then you could buy BitLISK with BTS or short it with BTS.
Then you can offer to buy BitLisk if there was a willing shorter. Once you own it you could either sell it for BTS to someone else wishing to buy it or you could request forced settlement which would convert your BitLISK to BTS or BitBTC based on the YoBit price in 24 hours taken from the least collateralized short.
So the option is to use the YoBit price feed for now and and add more price feeds as they become available or use no price feeds for now, meaning that you will only be able to use the forced settlement function once there are feeds in a couple of weeks. If you bough BitLISK in that time you would only be able to get BTS for it by selling it to another willing buyer.
I think that's how it all works, but I don't use BitAssets very much.
https://bitshares.org/technology/price-stable-cryptocurrencies/
I think we need guidance here. Hopefully @bytemaster will chime in.