BitShares Forum

Other => Graveyard => BitShares PTS => Topic started by: Riverhead on January 13, 2014, 04:19:49 pm

Title: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: Riverhead on January 13, 2014, 04:19:49 pm
I've noticed a steady drop in PTS price, down to about $12.60 now.  I wonder how much of this is due to the supply/demand curve getting changed by the appearance of GPU mining.  It used to take me forever to mine even 0.2PTS with CPU's.  However pointing my Scrypt rigs (~18MH) at pts.1gh.com I can make about 1.4PTS/block. Even with a string of crappy days the pool can find an average of about 5 blocks/day or for me that's about 7PTS/day.No wonder the price is dropping, the market is getting flooded.  Once the diff catches up I suspect this will change but for now it's a bit of a gold rush.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: Primecoindude on January 13, 2014, 07:29:11 pm
Look at Primecoin the increase in difficulty had very little effect on the price, i think a few weeks is to short time.
I belive Angelshares have a larger impact on PTS prices right now then PTS difficulty or the introduction of gpu-miners.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: progmac on January 13, 2014, 07:36:18 pm
I was going to buy some shares tomorrow but I think i'll wait another week to see what happens
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: 5chdn on January 13, 2014, 07:49:07 pm
Yeah, it's great to see the markets flooded again, this was really needed.

This will be the last time you will get hands on cheap shares because the difficulty impact of the GPUs might make PTS unminable on CPUs and therefore you need to invest more to get hands on PTS ... its a good upcycling circle... prices will rise sooner than expected.

But again, keep in mind GPUminers are only one effect in the PTS network currently. The distribution of Angelshares are having another notable effect.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: Giga on January 13, 2014, 08:12:26 pm
I think the prices are great atm, v good opportunity. I grabbed some PTS at $14 and plan to grab a few more soon.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: santaclause102 on January 13, 2014, 11:36:24 pm
when will this tho "flooding" be over?  When will the difficulty rate rise rise?
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: robust8 on January 14, 2014, 02:02:25 am
We will see in the future……
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: santaclause102 on January 14, 2014, 02:53:57 am
Sure :) But there must be some hard fact like when the difficulty increases or something...
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: 5chdn on January 14, 2014, 08:35:25 am
The network hashrate keeps decreasing and the diff is decreasing too, ...

... there wont be any flooding soon.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: maqifrnswa on January 14, 2014, 10:50:55 pm
AGS paying bounties in PTS causing a dip more than GPUs. Now PTS is backed by work done, so investors can price out how much they are willing to pay for a bounty (and how much a bounty increases project equity) in fiat and make purchases/sales accordingly.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: mav2000 on January 15, 2014, 03:41:56 pm
I dont know whats happening, but PTS has been falling like a rock for a few days now. I hope it goes back up. But anywhere between 1/2 to 3/4 value of Litecoin would be awesome. Its around half of litecoin as of now.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: bytemaster on January 15, 2014, 05:31:26 pm
All things considered PTS is holding steady at #8 on coinmarketcap.   
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: luigi1111 on January 15, 2014, 10:16:06 pm
By all appearances, GPUs have had a negligible impact on net processing power. We're still set to drop next difficulty change.

http://mrx.im/pts.php

Also, I think you have the answer in your post: your 18 MH rig is making you less than $100/day on PTS, while you could almost certainly be making more than that mining, well, scrypt.

Why would I mine PTS with an AMD GPU? NVidia is a different story, but again, it does not appear to have affected much.

Anyway, if we believe in what's going on here, we should appreciate this buying opportunity, right?
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: 5chdn on January 15, 2014, 10:42:30 pm
By all appearances, GPUs have had a negligible impact on net processing power. We're still set to drop next difficulty change.

http://mrx.im/pts.php

Also, I think you have the answer in your post: your 18 MH rig is making you less than $100/day on PTS, while you could almost certainly be making more than that mining, well, scrypt.

Why would I mine PTS with an AMD GPU? NVidia is a different story, but again, it does not appear to have affected much.

Anyway, if we believe in what's going on here, we should appreciate this buying opportunity, right?

Yeah why waste GPUs if there is still Cachecoin :)
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: santaclause102 on January 15, 2014, 11:20:01 pm
By all appearances, GPUs have had a negligible impact on net processing power. We're still set to drop next difficulty change.

http://mrx.im/pts.php

Also, I think you have the answer in your post: your 18 MH rig is making you less than $100/day on PTS, while you could almost certainly be making more than that mining, well, scrypt.

Why would I mine PTS with an AMD GPU? NVidia is a different story, but again, it does not appear to have affected much.

Anyway, if we believe in what's going on here, we should appreciate this buying opportunity, right?

Did I get that right, that difficulty will go down again at "Time to retarget: 8d 01:08:19 (2014-01-24 09:25:03 UTC+9)"? And this potentially makes the price drop a little?
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: samesong on January 15, 2014, 11:36:37 pm
By all appearances, GPUs have had a negligible impact on net processing power. We're still set to drop next difficulty change.

http://mrx.im/pts.php

Also, I think you have the answer in your post: your 18 MH rig is making you less than $100/day on PTS, while you could almost certainly be making more than that mining, well, scrypt.

Why would I mine PTS with an AMD GPU? NVidia is a different story, but again, it does not appear to have affected much.

Anyway, if we believe in what's going on here, we should appreciate this buying opportunity, right?

Did I get that right, that difficulty will go down again at "Time to retarget: 8d 01:08:19 (2014-01-24 09:25:03 UTC+9)"? And this potentially makes the price drop a little?

I'm hoping difficulty increases point to scarcity point to greater demand point to price jumps! Not always the case though, especially short-term.

go pro(toshares)!! :)
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: Riverhead on January 16, 2014, 05:28:25 am

Also, I think you have the answer in your post: your 18 MH rig is making you less than $100/day on PTS, while you could almost certainly be making more than that mining, well, scrypt.

Why would I mine PTS with an AMD GPU? NVidia is a different story, but again, it does not appear to have affected much.

Anyway, if we believe in what's going on here, we should appreciate this buying opportunity, right?


You're not wrong but also keep in mind that 18MH is not one rig.  It's about 12 so playing the field on scrypt's various pump/dump garbage coins (Dodge, Catcoin, etc.) is a bit of a hassle vs keeping it on one coin, like LTC, which was what I based my comparison on. 


Also, GPU mining hasn't had the effect I was expecting on PTS yet but the tech is also mostly in development.  Once GPU mining becomes the norm things may change.  I'm not sure if this is a good thing.  I know Bytemaster had a bounty out for anyone that could prove the momentum algorithm could be done better in a GPU.  That bounty has come and gone but it never the less seems that he felt GPU mining was a "Bad Thing" for PTS.  Later he released a bounty for a GPU miner...so...I dunno.



Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: bytemaster on January 16, 2014, 05:41:53 am
I was aiming originally for CPU only and it seems I was more successful than others that have gone before me, but not perfectly.

I released a bounty for the GPU miner to keep the field level.

At the end of the day none of this mining matters so equal opportunity is all I aim for.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: reorder on January 16, 2014, 10:37:24 am
And the bounty was a hefty 1BTC..
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: Gekko on January 16, 2014, 12:37:45 pm
I was aiming originally for CPU only and it seems I was more successful than others that have gone before me, but not perfectly.
Could you explain that a little more? What is the problem creating a coin that can only be mined by CPU?
Your answer sounds like it's impossible to create a CPU-only coin, because you have tried to and put a high bounty on what you thought was the solution. Why didn't you know what others (GPU miner creators) now know when you were programming it?
Knowing how the GPU miners work, could you create a CPU only coin now?
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: luigi1111 on January 16, 2014, 04:41:03 pm
By all appearances, GPUs have had a negligible impact on net processing power. We're still set to drop next difficulty change.

http://mrx.im/pts.php

Also, I think you have the answer in your post: your 18 MH rig is making you less than $100/day on PTS, while you could almost certainly be making more than that mining, well, scrypt.

Why would I mine PTS with an AMD GPU? NVidia is a different story, but again, it does not appear to have affected much.

Anyway, if we believe in what's going on here, we should appreciate this buying opportunity, right?

Did I get that right, that difficulty will go down again at "Time to retarget: 8d 01:08:19 (2014-01-24 09:25:03 UTC+9)"? And this potentially makes the price drop a little?

I'm hoping difficulty increases point to scarcity point to greater demand point to price jumps! Not always the case though, especially short-term.

go pro(toshares)!! :)

In the past with PTS, difficulty increases have led to scarcity, as network collisions/min have gone down after the increases. However, we are set to drop about 16% in 7 days or so, which will likely increase supply beyond the implied ~19%, because it'll become more favorable to mine, attracting additional resources.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: luigi1111 on January 16, 2014, 04:49:04 pm

Also, I think you have the answer in your post: your 18 MH rig is making you less than $100/day on PTS, while you could almost certainly be making more than that mining, well, scrypt.

Why would I mine PTS with an AMD GPU? NVidia is a different story, but again, it does not appear to have affected much.

Anyway, if we believe in what's going on here, we should appreciate this buying opportunity, right?


You're not wrong but also keep in mind that 18MH is not one rig.  It's about 12 so playing the field on scrypt's various pump/dump garbage coins (Dodge, Catcoin, etc.) is a bit of a hassle vs keeping it on one coin, like LTC, which was what I based my comparison on. 


Also, GPU mining hasn't had the effect I was expecting on PTS yet but the tech is also mostly in development.  Once GPU mining becomes the norm things may change.  I'm not sure if this is a good thing.  I know Bytemaster had a bounty out for anyone that could prove the momentum algorithm could be done better in a GPU.  That bounty has come and gone but it never the less seems that he felt GPU mining was a "Bad Thing" for PTS.  Later he released a bounty for a GPU miner...so...I dunno.

You could almost certainly make more than LTC at one of the multipools, which requires very little management. Now, if the difficulty drops the currently predicted amount, and price stays the same or climbs, the ~19-20% increase in revenue will probably make it competitive with scrypt. Of course, as you point out, improvements in the GPU miner will have an affect as well.

My original point still stands: GPUs haven't impacted PTS much, because it's not competitive with scrypt...yet.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: 5chdn on January 18, 2014, 11:11:55 am
I was aiming originally for CPU only and it seems I was more successful than others that have gone before me, but not perfectly.
Could you explain that a little more? What is the problem creating a coin that can only be mined by CPU?
Your answer sounds like it's impossible to create a CPU-only coin, because you have tried to and put a high bounty on what you thought was the solution. Why didn't you know what others (GPU miner creators) now know when you were programming it?
Knowing how the GPU miners work, could you create a CPU only coin now?

Well there is a successfull CPU only coin out there: Primecoin, stable for more than half a year now and impossible to create GPU miners with decent results due to the design of prime numbers being integers :) It's so simple tbh.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: reorder on January 18, 2014, 12:20:56 pm
I was aiming originally for CPU only and it seems I was more successful than others that have gone before me, but not perfectly.
Could you explain that a little more? What is the problem creating a coin that can only be mined by CPU?
Your answer sounds like it's impossible to create a CPU-only coin, because you have tried to and put a high bounty on what you thought was the solution. Why didn't you know what others (GPU miner creators) now know when you were programming it?
Knowing how the GPU miners work, could you create a CPU only coin now?

Well there is a successfull CPU only coin out there: Primecoin, stable for more than half a year now and impossible to create GPU miners with decent results due to the design of prime numbers being integers :) It's so simple tbh.
The Creator has created all prime numbers integer indeed, but what does it have to do with GPU mining? :)
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: mav2000 on January 22, 2014, 11:17:49 am
Since I didnt want to start a new topic on this, can someone educate me as to why PTS is falling on a daily basis. I normally mine PTS and then exchange to Bitcoin, but the last few trades have been loss making for me.

Also I cant seem to wrap my brain around the whole Bitshares/Keyhote thingy. Can someone explain that as well. Thanks.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: Schwede65 on January 22, 2014, 12:42:23 pm
You could almost certainly make more than LTC at one of the multipools, which requires very little management. Now, if the difficulty drops the currently predicted amount, and price stays the same or climbs, the ~19-20% increase in revenue will probably make it competitive with scrypt. Of course, as you point out, improvements in the GPU miner will have an affect as well.

My original point still stands: GPUs haven't impacted PTS much, because it's not competitive with scrypt...yet.
in the last 5 days i made ~45 PTS with comparable 10 Mhs-scrypt-mining rigs, which stand for ~15 LTC in that time
so i mined ~ 21 LTC (exchanged) with this pts.1gh.com-pool, but with only 75 % of the energy costs, which i have had with scrypt-mining: 180/135 $ - so i saved 45 $ extra energy this time
my conclusion is: i have mined more LTC with PTC and this with lower costs - so PTC-GPU-mining is really competitive with scrypt - you have to read the numbers!
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: luigi1111 on January 22, 2014, 05:59:01 pm
You could almost certainly make more than LTC at one of the multipools, which requires very little management. Now, if the difficulty drops the currently predicted amount, and price stays the same or climbs, the ~19-20% increase in revenue will probably make it competitive with scrypt. Of course, as you point out, improvements in the GPU miner will have an affect as well.

My original point still stands: GPUs haven't impacted PTS much, because it's not competitive with scrypt...yet.
in the last 5 days i made ~45 PTS with comparable 10 Mhs-scrypt-mining rigs, which stand for ~15 LTC in that time
so i mined ~ 21 LTC (exchanged) with this pts.1gh.com-pool, but with only 75 % of the energy costs, which i have had with scrypt-mining: 180/135 $ - so i saved 45 $ extra energy this time
my conclusion is: i have mined more LTC with PTC and this with lower costs - so PTC-GPU-mining is really competitive with scrypt - you have to read the numbers!

I have no idea how you made that much PTS with a 10 MHS rig. That's only like 13,000 coll/min or so unless a more efficient miner has been released or my numbers are just off. You should get closer to 25 PTS in 5 days by the numbers I have.

Also, what are you paying for electricity??
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: Schwede65 on January 23, 2014, 10:05:09 am
You could almost certainly make more than LTC at one of the multipools, which requires very little management. Now, if the difficulty drops the currently predicted amount, and price stays the same or climbs, the ~19-20% increase in revenue will probably make it competitive with scrypt. Of course, as you point out, improvements in the GPU miner will have an affect as well.

My original point still stands: GPUs haven't impacted PTS much, because it's not competitive with scrypt...yet.
in the last 5 days i made ~45 PTS with comparable 10 Mhs-scrypt-mining rigs, which stand for ~15 LTC in that time
so i mined ~ 21 LTC (exchanged) with this pts.1gh.com-pool, but with only 75 % of the energy costs, which i have had with scrypt-mining: 180/135 $ - so i saved 45 $ extra energy this time
my conclusion is: i have mined more LTC with PTC and this with lower costs - so PTC-GPU-mining is really competitive with scrypt - you have to read the numbers!

I have no idea how you made that much PTS with a 10 MHS rig. That's only like 13,000 coll/min or so unless a more efficient miner has been released or my numbers are just off. You should get closer to 25 PTS in 5 days by the numbers I have.

Also, what are you paying for electricity??
there are many mixed gpu-rigs - mostly there are 4 x HD6990 and many HD7850 (2 GB) and 2 x HD7950
i have around ~ 22,000 cpm with my cards
the power-consumption at the wall is e.g. for:
2 x HD6990-rig: PTS: 650 watt for 4760 cpm / Scrypt: 905 watt for 1840 khash
3 x HD7850-rig: PTS: 350 watt for 1680 cpm / Scrypt: 500 watt for 1000 khash

the HD6990 are really very good cards for PTS-GPU-mining :)

Edit: here in germany i have to pay 0.25 EUR/kWh - thats 0.339 in $ - very expensive energy here...
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: luigi1111 on January 23, 2014, 07:32:09 pm
Interesting, I'll take your word for it. I was only going off relative hashrates of a 280x, which makes around 1,000 c/m from what I've seen (maybe it's more now?).

Anyway, looks like for you it's competitive with scrypt. The recent ~10% diff reduction should have helped too, although price is a bit lower now as well.
Title: Re: GPU Mining and the market price of PTS
Post by: Schwede65 on January 24, 2014, 01:50:03 pm
Interesting, I'll take your word for it. I was only going off relative hashrates of a 280x, which makes around 1,000 c/m from what I've seen (maybe it's more now?).

Anyway, looks like for you it's competitive with scrypt. The recent ~10% diff reduction should have helped too, although price is a bit lower now as well.
thanks for asking this efficience-question, so i have seen, that only my 6990 are very effective in PTS-mining and the other cards are more effective in scrypt-mining :)