BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: mf-tzo on September 08, 2016, 09:06:04 pm
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Announcing the first Loan via bitshares. “CONSTRUCTION” token.
My brother in law is a civil engineer in Ioannina city – Greece. He has recently undertaken the reconstruction of a pedestrian road in his city due to be completed within 14 - 15 months. Unfortunately the way the Greek system works is that he has to pay first from his own pocket, complete portions of the construction and then he gets paid by the municipality of Ioannina city. This has cash flow implications. In addition the Greek banks do not lend anymore any loans, even in this case that he is guaranteed to get paid by the municipality of Ioannina. The funding for the completion of the construction is secured throughout the duration of the project from the annual budgeted municipal expenses.
The approved budget for the project is 150,000 euros. Due to the cash flow difficulties mentioned above we have created in bitshares the “CONSTRUCTION” token. Max targeted amount to be raised is $10,000.
You can purchase “CONSTRUCTION” until 15th October at the price $1 each. After this date “CONSTRUCTION” tokens will not be available for sale.
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/CONSTRUCTION_USD
I will be managing the “CONSTRUCTION” funding and will buyback all the sold tokens as per the below schedule.
Date % of sold tokens bought back Buy Back price
1-Jan-17 2% 1.02
1-Feb-17 2% 1.02
1-Mar-17 2% 1.02
1-Apr-17 2% 1.02
1-May-17 2% 1.03
1-Jun-17 2% 1.03
1-Jul-17 2% 1.03
1-Aug-17 2% 1.04
1-Sep-17 2% 1.04
1-Oct-17 2% 1.04
1-Nov-17 2% 1.05
1-Dec-17 2% 1.05
1-Jan-18 76% 1.11
I understand that some people may want to exit their investment earlier so on the basis of first come first served they may be able to exit earning smaller return on their investment. It goes without saying, if there is no demand to buy back earlier the tokens, any remaining tokens each month will move to the buy back order of next month. Some people may exit earlier earning 2%-5% but those who exit upon expiry of the term will receive 11% on their investment. If during the project, there is no cash flow issue anymore, we will buy back all the tokens at $1.11 on an earlier date and repay the full loan.
I understand that this is based purely on trust and that I will repay the loan. As most people know, I am a long term bitshares investor from the very beginning and I do not intend to scam anyone and hurt my reputation.
This should be considered a secure investment of your bitusd with high return up to 11%. Your support will be greatly appreciated!
Please let me know if you have any questions or anything is unclear.
Thank you very much
mf-tzo
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I can lose $25 on this.
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1. Are there any official documents we can see to show us the project details? Perhaps something that shows the scope of the project and names your brother in law as the engineer?
2. Are there any documents on your brother in law's capabilities? Licenses etc..?
3. I'm curious with you living in Greece, how will you go about converting the token > euro for the initial funding required?
The more documents you can provide the more people will be willing to invest. This is significant if it works out and can change the way the people of Greece get financed.
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This is a nice use of user issued tokens, but man, if you want to borrow money, you got to reveal your identity.
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Thank you very much for the interest and for the questions Guys.
@nmywn . My intention is not that you lose $25 but that you rreceive back $27.75 (1.11 on your investment or maybe less if you request buy back earlier). In any case, thank you very much for your support it is appreciated!
@Brekyrself
1. There are a lot of official supporting documents but in Greek. I would not like though to publish these in a public forum.
2. Same as 1
3. Very simple...bitusd ==> bts==>btc==>eur and withdraw the euro but I guess you are wondering about the capital controls here..The amount of new money coming from abroad can be sent abroad again at any time. On top of that Greeks can safely transfer abroad 1,000 per month. The maximum interest on the $10,000 is $1,100 in Jan 2018. So no problem with any capital control.
The only risk that you guys face are:
a) I get hacked before I withdraw in euro
b) Serious Bail ins, the government seize all our money and we are left to die so I guess no one will have any money here anyway. Even if this happens I am the kind of peorson that value my word and reputation very much so I will do everything to repay the people who provided with the funding.
c) I am a scammer and I take your money and leave
@yvv
Regarding revealing my identity or my brother in law identity I really don't think it is necessary for everyone to know in a public forum, just to receive a couple of $ from many people that may max. to $10,000...I mean come on now..A lot of people in here have revealed their identity, people have invested much more funds in them and they have either disappeared completely or under delivered. Does knowing their ID made any difference? I don't think so...
We are investing in crypto. If we can't trust each other even with small amounts then what is the point.. ???
Having said that..I am sure that if someone wants to find out my identity it shouldn't be that hard..I haven't taken any measures to protect my privacy since I have nothing to hide anyway. However, if there is someone, with some reputation in this community, willing to loan us at least $5k in one go but insists on knowing our IDs for his own piece of mind, official docs of my brother in law qualifications or any other documents he require, I guess it would be fair that I can provide him. Please pm me if that is the case.
Finally, I also think it would be huge if I can indeed raise this kind of funding via bitshares. I am in discussions to soon have an interview in a well known and read Greek newspaper with Q&A about bitshares and how they can help Greek people. I think you can imagine the publicity bitshares will have if I manage to raise the requested funding via bitshares. It will be like a light bulb for many people here..
Once again thanks for your support. Please spread the word and let me know if you have any other questions.
:)
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Sorry, I don't give my money to strangers.
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I doubt you'll succeed without open yourself. Also i was hoping for regular Steemit updates from building process. I would like to see that road. How it looks? How long it is? What work must be done and so on... Even if you are honest you can still fail with this and be unable to pay your debt. I want this go real because marketing potential, but I will not risk more than that.
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I doubt you'll succeed without open yourself. Also i was hoping for regular Steemit updates from building process. I would like to see that road. How it looks? How long it is? What work must be done and so on... Even if you are honest you can still fail with this and be unable to pay your debt. I want this go real because marketing potential, but I will not risk more than that.
@nmywn I think you are right and I will follow your advice. Here are some photos. This is only a small part of the project. The sidewalk is 1.5km distance and 3 meters width. What we do is we change the old pedestrian walk and replace it with a new one which will be friendly to people with special needs, will not gather water when it rains and people could walk on a proper sidewalk. In one of the photos you can see that work is being done outside of a school. If we manage to get the requested funding or at least a good portion of it I will keep you guys updated here and in steemit,
https://i.imgsafe.org/3dc2499d4e.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/3deaa89c4e.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/3debeb7f7e.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/3ded9b09c9.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/3def8e6780.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/3df0b1be7b.jpg
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Bumping this thread! Please consider supporting the "construction" token.
You will be helping someone raise financing who is in need.
You will receive interest on your bitusd stash.
This will be very good marketting for bitshares and if we manage to reach a decent portion of our target I will let everyone know about this.
P.S. I have no personal gain from all this.
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I like how the UIA are used here to help out fund a project. You said that the funds and their return are secured through the local municipal? 11% is quite an interest. Why so expensive?
Also, the road seems almost finished. How much of the 150k has been spent already?
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I like how the UIA are used here to help out fund a project. You said that the funds and their return are secured through the local municipal? 11% is quite an interest. Why so expensive?
Also, the road seems almost finished. How much of the 150k has been spent already?
Thank you for your interest!
Regarding the interest i guess it depends on perspective. For some people this may seem high, others may see it low...
Regarding the road it is by far not finished. The reconstruction started about a month ago and it is estimated that it will take 12 months or max 15 months in order to finish. The photos that you see show only just a very small portion of that road.
The approved budget from the local municipal is 150k. This is sufficient to complete the project and make some profit. Those funds obviously are not released from day one to us. We need to spend our money first, complete part of the road, the local authority measures what has been done and then we get paid. Hence the short term cash flow issue and the need for a loan.
I am confident that we will be able to meet the repayment of the max $1,100 interest. If in a project of a budget of $150k that will last more than a year they don't make $1,100 profit then...they should obviously change a job..lol..
Please let me know if there are any other questions and thanks again for the interest.
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So far we have raised the amazing amount of $25 out of the targeted $10,000... :(
Therefore I am wondering why people do not support this..
Do you require any further information?
Is it a matter of trust?
You don't care about earning interest on your bitusd holdings?
Do you think interest is low?
What else?
I want this to succeed and "Construction" to be the first p2p loan in bitshares DEX but I am starting to lose hope...
Feedback is appreciated!
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/CONSTRUCTION_USD
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I like the general idea of P2P-lending. I have some experience as an investor on a German P2P lending platform. I have stopped investing there, for various reasons, some of which were within the platform itself, but mostly because the risk with such investments is much higher than you'd think. With the current low interest rates it is close to impossible to come out without a loss. I will have some open cases there for a long time, and even if I get out with a small profit, that profit does not in the least compensate for the time I have invested into that experiment.
I have learned there is that it all boils down to risk management. It doesn't matter what nice stories people tell you what they're going to do with the money. It could all be lies, and you can't even hold them responsible for it. What matters is cold hard facts and numbers. That's why P2P lending platforms usually provide ratings or credit scores on the borrowers. Some require the borrowers to secure their credit with property, like cars, boats, or even houses.
What I've also learned there is that scammers will seek opportunities on such platforms. Make it easy for the scammers, and they will come in masses.
So ultimately my conclusion about P2P lending is - nice idea in theory, total failure in practice. Which really is a pity, IMO.
Applying the above on your proposal, I see several serious drawbacks:
1. You have listed some risks, but by far not all, nor the most important ones. For example
* your own untimely death
* offering such securities is probably illegal in Greece, which can get you into serious trouble
* your brother in law doesn't complete the project, or doesn't complete it to the satisfaction of his customer, and doesn't get paid, or doesn't get paid enough, or doesn't get paid within reasonable time (which I think is quite likely, from what I know about Greek public finance).
2. Your decision to remain anonymous precludes any kind of research on your financial background (not that such information would be easy to get even with your personal data - P2P lending platforms do provide a service there). It also precludes any possibility of your securing that loan.
3. Even if your proposal succeeds, it does set a bad example. Bad in the sense that it would make it seem very easy for scammers to request similar loans and run away with the money. Just like it was very easy on STEEM to make money by posting an introduction under a girls' name.
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@pc thanks for the feedback.
Here are some replies to your questions
1. You have listed some risks, but by far not all, nor the most important ones. For example
* your own untimely death
Agree this is a risk. I do hope it won't happen though...
* offering such securities is probably illegal in Greece, which can get you into serious trouble
Do you mean that offering the "construction" token to be illegal? I don't think so...Not in Greece but in any country as far as I understand..
* your brother in law doesn't complete the project, or doesn't complete it to the satisfaction of his customer, and doesn't get paid, or doesn't get paid enough, or doesn't get paid within reasonable time (which I think is quite likely, from what I know about Greek public finance).
The risk for delaying the project is his own cash flow problems, hence the request of the loan. If the government doesn't pay him, then he will stop working and will indeed not complete the project. But if that happens, he won't need the money anyway and he will return the loan. I agree ofcourse that there is a risk things not to go as planed.
2. Your decision to remain anonymous precludes any kind of research on your financial background (not that such information would be easy to get even with your personal data - P2P lending platforms do provide a service there). It also precludes any possibility of your securing that loan.
I am prepared not to remain anonymous to a potential investor willing to cover a large portion of the loan.
3. Even if your proposal succeeds, it does set a bad example. Bad in the sense that it would make it seem very easy for scammers to request similar loans and run away with the money. Just like it was very easy on STEEM to make money by posting an introduction under a girls' name.
I agree that p2p loans are risky. I was just under the naive impression that maybe members of this community would have shown a bit more trust in me as a long term member of this community. Something like a credit score as you say..Apparently that is not the case... On the other side people from this community have given lots of money to "invest" in projects that never delivered and probably won't deliver anything and they seem to be fine with this...strange things..
Having said that, I really appreciate the honesty and the feedback. Keep them coming..
Thanks!
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I agree with @pc.
Do you mean that offering the "construction" token to be illegal? I don't think so...Not in Greece but in any country as far as I understand..
Only thoughts, nothing for sure.
I am prepared not to remain anonymous to a potential investor willing to cover a large portion of the loan.
The amount of money we are talking about is not even worth to hire a lawyer trying to sue you in case something goes wrong.
On the other side people from this community have given lots of money to "invest" in projects that never delivered and probably won't deliver anything and they seem to be fine with this...strange things..
Those projects have/had the potential of a much higher ROI and so they are worth to take a higher risk.
However I appreciate your approach and I think you have a really good reputation at least in this forum.
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@btswolf and @pc thank you very much guys! I value very much your comments and feedback!
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What happens if you do not raise the funds. Say you raise only $1200 or even worse, only $100. Are you still going to buyback the token?
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@intelliguy @nmywn and all
Only 2 weeks left for the deadline and so far we have raised only $25 from one courageous investor. Please consider supporting the "CONSTRUCTION" token within the next two weeks. After the deadline the deal is off. What I mean with that...
If we don't manage to raise more than $500 I will consider the raise funding attempt a failure. In this case I will buy back the tokens until the end of November at min $1.01 - max $1.02.
The only exception will be the one investor who supported with $25 from the beginning. I intend to buy back the $25 dollars raised so far from this 1 investor @ $30 (congratulations you will have made 20% profit on your investment because of the early confidence).
I really do hope though that we manage to raise more than $500 and the project is not a failure. This is the first attempt to actually use bitusd for something real. "CONSTRUCTION" is a good investment opportunity for people that want to earn high interest on their bitusd stash.
Regarding the progress of the project. The project is moving forward as planned but there is a need for short term cash flow. We are still in the very early stages of the project so we have actually already completed more work than we have been paid for. We expect to get paid for the work done so far closer to the end of October. This is normal, part of the business plan and this is the reason of the "CONSTRUCTION" token.
Public Constructions projects are always profitable and there is no much risk involved. It is not like private construction projects that someone builds a house and he may never sell it or sell it below cost. Your main risk investing in "Construction" token is mostly my self, so look at your risk - reward profile again and consider buying "CONSTRUCTION" before the deadline.
Any other concerns or questions please let me know.
Thanks for your support!
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Only 1 Week is left for the "CONSTRUCTION" token.
If you want to invest and earn high interest on your bitusd stash this is your last chance before the expiry on the 15th October
Below some pictures where we are and what we have to do:
1) So far we have completed (the yellow part is for blind people. This is the first time I see something like this on a Greek sidewalk..)
https://i.imgsafe.org/befcef1ae9.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/befede79a4.jpg
2) What we are doing now
https://i.imgsafe.org/bf05c8b3cf.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/bf18b66f7d.jpg
3) What we have to restructure (and more that is not shown on the below pictures)
https://i.imgsafe.org/bf0941e09e.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/bf0b3c1cc1.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/bf0cd4a8a1.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/bf0ed18b68.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/bf1103bcd5.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/bf13640e43.jpg
I hope you reconsider investing by buying "construction" token and be part of this nice pedestrian we are preparing.
Thank you for your support!
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That's it guys... The deadline is over and Construction token is now considered officially a huge failure.
I have tried to supply you guys with as much information as possible about the progress of the project.
I have tried to make real use of bitusd and support someone who had short term cash flow needs and no one (except one guy?) from this community has supported the initiative despite the big interest for the loan that was promised. I put an order to buy back the construction tokens sold @1.1760 which is much higher than anything promised on the original announcement so I expect that the current buyer(s) to be more than happy with this and that nothing more should be expected from the Issuer of the token.
I must say that I am really really disappointed from the bitshares community. I was expecting much more support from you guys... :(
I want to make clear that CONSTRUCTION is no longer available and will never be available again in the form presented on the Announcement of this post. I have amended the asset description which you can see in http://cryptofresh.com/a/CONSTRUCTION and I quote below for the avoidance of any doubt:
"Construction in modern usage is a hypothetical social currency, which can be acquired by doing deeds or earning in the eyes of another, often one's superior. Anybody buying construction should NOT have any expectation of any profit from future sale of the token. The issuer is not liable from any potential loss from the acquisition of construction"
Those who believe in me will be able to buy CONSTRUCTION which I intend to price them vs BTS and not bitusd anymore over the next couple of days. I may chose to buy them back at higher value one day but you SHOULD NOT have any expectations of any kind of profit. I will not be liable for any financial loss you may encounter with "CONSTRUCTION". "CONSTRUCTION" will be used from now on as a token of faith in my future success in bitshares related projects and my intention to share the benefits of my potential success.
Anyway... I think I made it clear that "CONSTRUCTION" is not any longer as per the original announcement and I think I made it clear how much disappointing it is that the project didn't materialized as planed.
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That's it guys... The deadline is over and Construction token is now considered officially a huge failure.
I have tried to supply you guys with as much information as possible about the progress of the project.
I have tried to make real use of bitusd and support someone who had short term cash flow needs and no one (except one guy?) from this community has supported the initiative despite the big interest for the loan that was promised. I put an order to buy back the construction tokens sold @1.1760 which is much higher than anything promised on the original announcement so I expect that the current buyer(s) to be more than happy with this and that nothing more should be expected from the Issuer of the token.
I must say that I am really really disappointed from the bitshares community. I was expecting much more support from you guys... :(
I want to make clear that CONSTRUCTION is no longer available and will never be available again in the form presented on the Announcement of this post. I have amended the asset description which you can see in http://cryptofresh.com/a/CONSTRUCTION and I quote below for the avoidance of any doubt:
"Construction in modern usage is a hypothetical social currency, which can be acquired by doing deeds or earning in the eyes of another, often one's superior. Anybody buying construction should NOT have any expectation of any profit from future sale of the token. The issuer is not liable from any potential loss from the acquisition of construction"
Those who believe in me will be able to buy CONSTRUCTION which I intend to price them vs BTS and not bitusd anymore over the next couple of days. I may chose to buy them back at higher value one day but you SHOULD NOT have any expectations of any kind of profit. I will not be liable for any financial loss you may encounter with "CONSTRUCTION". "CONSTRUCTION" will be used from now on as a token of faith in my future success in bitshares related projects and my intention to share the benefits of my potential success.
Anyway... I think I made it clear that "CONSTRUCTION" is not any longer as per the original announcement and I think I made it clear how much disappointing it is that the project didn't materialized as planed.
It's not the communities fault that you didn't raise the money... What were you expecting from a dwindling forum about an ever depreciating crypto coin?
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That's it guys... The deadline is over and Construction token is now considered officially a huge failure.
I have tried to supply you guys with as much information as possible about the progress of the project.
I have tried to make real use of bitusd and support someone who had short term cash flow needs and no one (except one guy?) from this community has supported the initiative despite the big interest for the loan that was promised. I put an order to buy back the construction tokens sold @1.1760 which is much higher than anything promised on the original announcement so I expect that the current buyer(s) to be more than happy with this and that nothing more should be expected from the Issuer of the token.
I must say that I am really really disappointed from the bitshares community. I was expecting much more support from you guys... :(
I want to make clear that CONSTRUCTION is no longer available and will never be available again in the form presented on the Announcement of this post. I have amended the asset description which you can see in http://cryptofresh.com/a/CONSTRUCTION and I quote below for the avoidance of any doubt:
"Construction in modern usage is a hypothetical social currency, which can be acquired by doing deeds or earning in the eyes of another, often one's superior. Anybody buying construction should NOT have any expectation of any profit from future sale of the token. The issuer is not liable from any potential loss from the acquisition of construction"
Those who believe in me will be able to buy CONSTRUCTION which I intend to price them vs BTS and not bitusd anymore over the next couple of days. I may chose to buy them back at higher value one day but you SHOULD NOT have any expectations of any kind of profit. I will not be liable for any financial loss you may encounter with "CONSTRUCTION". "CONSTRUCTION" will be used from now on as a token of faith in my future success in bitshares related projects and my intention to share the benefits of my potential success.
Anyway... I think I made it clear that "CONSTRUCTION" is not any longer as per the original announcement and I think I made it clear how much disappointing it is that the project didn't materialized as planed.
It's not the communities fault that you didn't raise the money... What were you expecting from a dwindling forum about an ever depreciating crypto coin?
Another factor to take into consideration:
Had you asked for a donation to build something or get something kick-started, because I know and trust you mf-tzo, I would have gladly donated. However, you put it forth as a business proposition. It therefore went against my philosophical leanings by forcing people through taxation to pay a profit to me for investing in the project. If you are going to propose business deals to me and those of my voluntarist principles you will need to show how the investment makes a return from people willingly paying/purchasing the good or service proposed.
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Does bitshares have a proper way to liquidate outstanding tokens which are no longer supported?
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Does bitshares have a proper way to liquidate outstanding tokens which are no longer supported?
No it does not.. but it's an interesting idea to enable some kind of kill switch for owners. The alternative of course is hard forking it out by a consensus from the voters.. but that would get messy and trample on property rights in my estimation. I would prefer if there was some way the owner could voluntarily kill their asset in some structured way so that all balances somehow go through a forced settlement and the name can be removed from the space. It would then be claimable again perhaps after a period of 60 days or something like that. Similar to how domain names work I suppose.
Just some thoughts.
Sorry construction didn't work out... I know how hard going crowdfunding can be.
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Does bitshares have a proper way to liquidate outstanding tokens which are no longer supported?
No it does not.. but it's an interesting idea to enable some kind of kill switch for owners. The alternative of course is hard forking it out by a consensus from the voters.. but that would get messy and trample on property rights in my estimation. I would prefer if there was some way the owner could voluntarily kill their asset in some structured way so that all balances somehow go through a forced settlement and the name can be removed from the space. It would then be claimable again perhaps after a period of 60 days or something like that. Similar to how domain names work I suppose.
Just some thoughts.
Sorry construction didn't work out... I know how hard going crowdfunding can be.
At least, there should be some way to freeze an asset such that it can't be traded at exchange anymore.
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Does bitshares have a proper way to liquidate outstanding tokens which are no longer supported?
No it does not.. but it's an interesting idea to enable some kind of kill switch for owners. The alternative of course is hard forking it out by a consensus from the voters.. but that would get messy and trample on property rights in my estimation. I would prefer if there was some way the owner could voluntarily kill their asset in some structured way so that all balances somehow go through a forced settlement and the name can be removed from the space. It would then be claimable again perhaps after a period of 60 days or something like that. Similar to how domain names work I suppose.
Just some thoughts.
Sorry construction didn't work out... I know how hard going crowdfunding can be.
At least, there should be some way to freeze an asset such that it can't be traded at exchange anymore.
That's already possible.. just not in the GUI.