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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bitcrab on December 20, 2016, 05:35:27 am

Title: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on December 20, 2016, 05:35:27 am
just did a little test, as yunbi has very low market depth, I bought 1.1BTS at price 0.0289CNY. before that the BTS price of all CNY market is about 0.0283.
(http://p1.bpimg.com/523014/ecf39ec0d0934f22.png)

then what happened is, a lot of witness began to feed 0.0289 as bitCNY price, and then about half an hour later, the settlement price changed from below 0.0284 to 0.0289.

(http://i1.piimg.com/523014/6880b24605f56a71.png)
if our witnesses just get price from yunbi and publish as feed price, then it will be dangerous, yunbi has very low market depth, it will be possible for some people to manipulate the price and make benefit without big difficulty.

hope witnesses can update their feed script to do more professional price feed.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Chronos on December 20, 2016, 05:48:19 am
This could be good reason to have forced settlement offset from 100%. It protects shorts against unfair price fees during forced settlement.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on December 20, 2016, 06:02:36 am
whether force settlement or margin call happen or not, the feed price should reflect the market price exactly enough, the price info should be collected from multi main exchanges, should not depend on a single exchange, especially when the exchange has very low depth.

and also, instead of directly adapting the last price,  can we develop some advanced algorithm that can reflect the market status more exactly to generate the feed price? as I know alt customized some algorithm in his price feed script, which behaves well, maybe the alogithm can be referenced.   
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: yvv on December 20, 2016, 08:46:45 am
Who is the witness who publish inaccurate price? Let's vote him down.

Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on December 20, 2016, 09:12:29 am
this happened  many times, the price wrong more then 10%.
every time I point this out, the answer is why you think your price is correct and mine is wrong?
so I just cancel my vote for these witness.

thanks bitcrab, I will remove these witness this time:
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato datasecuritynode
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: mea123 on December 21, 2016, 01:17:30 am


I am not an expert, nor do I understand a lot about what you talking about,
but I know one thing, I trade for more than 7 years Forex and more than 20 years Stocks.
if you cant trust the system, because one dont get the right price, people will look for one they think they can trust...I hope I did understand the point right
if you provide an exchange you better get it right, and the exchange on OL is far from good, let stand from perfect
I am an Obits and more investor and as an investor I like seeing thing work, if they don't I have to move on and believe me most people don't like OL exchange, that's why they dont become
account-holders to begin with, the exchange has to change for much better and more reliable
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on December 21, 2016, 02:52:13 am
this happened  many times, the price wrong more then 10%.
every time I point this out, the answer is why you think your price is correct and mine is wrong?
so I just cancel my vote for these witness.

thanks bitcrab, I will remove these witness this time:
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato datasecuritynode

                "CNY" : {
                    "metric" : "weighted",
                    "sources" : ["btc38",
                                 "yunbi",
                                 "huobi",
                                 "btcchina",
                                 "okcoin",
                                 ]

All of these are enabled on datasecuritynode.. problem is only one of them is responding at the moment. I think the others will chime in soon enough on this matter when they see the same I did.

This is the first time *I* have seen where only one was responding like this. I appreciate the attention given to explaining things, but the conclusions made in assuming that witnesses have chosen to "just get" one source is outright presumptuous and false.

@alt  I never had your vote before so not sure why you are saying now you are removing your vote for datasecuritynode. I think this seems a bit over the top... not to mention all those witnesses are long time trusted ones. This whole thread of single source feed accusations is really what is the disappointing result from this test.

How about a simple note at the end asking witnesses to check their feeds instead? Here instead we find false accusations and others claiming to vote them out. Not to mention the thread title is insulting as well. Again, not helpful. Appreciate all you guys do, but this could have been handled better.

Oh, there is a telegram witness channel that could have been used too.. instead of the public display.. you have access to it and could have directly contacted the witnesses in question. Instead a public post to bring about less public confidence? Really? Could have been handled better.

Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on December 21, 2016, 03:10:34 am
I don't know it's because of  a wrong configure file or a bug of the script.
but this is not the first time it happened. I can't remember how many times I have mentioned the witness.
include this forum and telegram.
nobody want to take responsibility  for this error, so I have to remove the witness every time this happen.
I can find some old post about this:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20704.msg267158.html#msg267158
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21315.msg276995.html#msg276995

I get this type of reply every time:
many witness publish a wrong price

Since you seem to be an authority on the subject, could you please enlighten us witnesses what the right price is?

I can publish a price of 0.0245 CNY/BTS all week if you think that's better.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: sasashui on December 21, 2016, 03:44:35 am
I don't know it's because of  a wrong configure file or a bug of the script.
but this is not the first time it happened. I can't remember how many times I have mentioned the witness.
include this forum and telegram.
nobody want to take responsibility  for this error, so I have to remove the witness every time this happen.
I can find some old post about this:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20704.msg267158.html#msg267158
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21315.msg276995.html#msg276995

I get this type of reply every time:
many witness publish a wrong price

Since you seem to be an authority on the subject, could you please enlighten us witnesses what the right price is?

I can publish a price of 0.0245 CNY/BTS all week if you think that's better.

+5%
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: ElMato on December 21, 2016, 04:41:10 am
I don't know it's because of  a wrong configure file or a bug of the script.
but this is not the first time it happened. I can't remember how many times I have mentioned the witness.
include this forum and telegram.
nobody want to take responsibility  for this error, so I have to remove the witness every time this happen.
I can find some old post about this:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20704.msg267158.html#msg267158
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21315.msg276995.html#msg276995

I get this type of reply every time:
many witness publish a wrong price

Since you seem to be an authority on the subject, could you please enlighten us witnesses what the right price is?

I can publish a price of 0.0245 CNY/BTS all week if you think that's better.

I have the same settings as DataSecurityNode,

  "CNY" : {
                    "metric" : "weighted",
                    "sources" : ["btc38",
                                 "yunbi",
                                 "huobi",
                                 "btcchina",
                                 "okcoin",
                                 ]
                },


Should we remove yunbi?
According to coinmarketcap  +80% of the volume is on btc38 and polo (BTS/BTC).



Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: abit on December 21, 2016, 09:13:19 am
I don't know it's because of  a wrong configure file or a bug of the script.
but this is not the first time it happened. I can't remember how many times I have mentioned the witness.
include this forum and telegram.
nobody want to take responsibility  for this error, so I have to remove the witness every time this happen.
I can find some old post about this:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20704.msg267158.html#msg267158
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21315.msg276995.html#msg276995

I get this type of reply every time:
many witness publish a wrong price

Since you seem to be an authority on the subject, could you please enlighten us witnesses what the right price is?

I can publish a price of 0.0245 CNY/BTS all week if you think that's better.

I have the same settings as DataSecurityNode,

  "CNY" : {
                    "metric" : "weighted",
                    "sources" : ["btc38",
                                 "yunbi",
                                 "huobi",
                                 "btcchina",
                                 "okcoin",
                                 ]
                },


Should we remove yunbi?
According to coinmarketcap  +80% of the volume is on btc38 and polo (BTS/BTC).

Actually with CNY you don't need huobi and btcc and okcoin anymore, if you don't have poloniex as a source, because yunbi and btc38 are both now not running BTS/BTC pair but only BTS/CNY pair.

So, the workaround would be something like these:
Code: [Select]
                   "CNY" : {
                       "metric" : "weighted",
                       "sources" : ["btc38",
                                    "yunbi",
                                   ]
                   },

feedSources["btc38"]    = feedsources.Btc38(allowFailure=False)

(Set btc38 as primary feed source and don't "allowFailure")

Or
Code: [Select]
                   "CNY" : {
                       "metric" : "weighted",
                       "sources" : ["btc38",
                                    "yunbi",
                                    "huobi",
                                    "btcchina",
                                    "okcoin",
                                    "poloniex",
                                    "bittrex",
                                   ]
                   },
(btc38 + poloniex + bittrex weighted)

@xeroc please advise.

//Edit: added bittrex
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: abit on December 21, 2016, 09:27:10 am
More info.. btc38 API server now returns no data. They upgraded?

//Update: btc38 announced that due to server issues they're currently shutdown all markets, will probably resume at 0:00 Beijing time.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Bhuz on December 21, 2016, 09:44:26 am
I don't know it's because of  a wrong configure file or a bug of the script.
but this is not the first time it happened. I can't remember how many times I have mentioned the witness.
include this forum and telegram.
nobody want to take responsibility  for this error, so I have to remove the witness every time this happen.
I can find some old post about this:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20704.msg267158.html#msg267158
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21315.msg276995.html#msg276995

I get this type of reply every time:
many witness publish a wrong price

Since you seem to be an authority on the subject, could you please enlighten us witnesses what the right price is?

I can publish a price of 0.0245 CNY/BTS all week if you think that's better.

The issue here is probably due to chinese exchanges not responding to our requests. This fact obviously limits the number of exhanges that the script can evaluate for deriving the price of the asset.
Only Chinese exchanges give this kind of issue to me... Ideas to fix those are welcome :)
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Bhuz on December 21, 2016, 09:46:13 am
More info.. btc38 API server now returns no data. They upgraded?

This seems to be the issue atm, I have btc38 and yunbi as sources for the CNY market, but btc38 doesn't give any data.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: abit on December 21, 2016, 10:08:19 am
There are rumors that btc38 is hacked.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on December 21, 2016, 01:19:27 pm
There are rumors that btc38 is hacked.

I have never been able to reliably get data from btc38 for anything for a very long time. Their feeds always timeout no matter how high I set the wait.

If they have been hacked that is also bad news though.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on December 21, 2016, 02:01:01 pm
is it possible to calculate a BTS/CNY price with BTS/BTC price from polo and bittrex and BTC/CNY price from yunbi/huobi/okcoin and give this price some weight?

the settlement price should be somehow fault-tolerant, if btc38 always fail to provide price, then we need to add  other price channels to avoid single point data fetch.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: mf-tzo on December 21, 2016, 02:04:32 pm
There are rumors that btc38 is hacked.

I have never been able to reliably get data from btc38 for anything for a very long time. Their feeds always timeout no matter how high I set the wait.

If they have been hacked that is also bad news though.

Well if they have been hacked again that is another opportunity to promote bitshares DEX though and short some btcs..
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Bhuz on December 21, 2016, 04:31:04 pm
is it possible to calculate a BTS/CNY price with BTS/BTC price from polo and bittrex and BTC/CNY price from yunbi/huobi/okcoin and give this price some weight?

This is what I am doing now, but for who is outside the great wall there are issue with those chinese exchanges...due to connection time out, or exceeding the max allowed retries.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: abit on December 21, 2016, 09:44:47 pm
is it possible to calculate a BTS/CNY price with BTS/BTC price from polo and bittrex and BTC/CNY price from yunbi/huobi/okcoin and give this price some weight?

the settlement price should be somehow fault-tolerant, if btc38 always fail to provide price, then we need to add  other price channels to avoid single point data fetch.

As I posted earlier:
Code: [Select]
                   "CNY" : {
                       "metric" : "weighted",
                       "sources" : ["btc38",
                                    "yunbi",
                                    "huobi",
                                    "btcchina",
                                    "okcoin",
                                    "poloniex",
                                    "bittrex",
                                   ]
                   },
Best if @xeroc can confirm.
People still need to be able to access huobi/ok/btcc though.

By the way, btc38's api is responding now, also seems the site/trading has been brought online. But their hot wallets are still empty (funds gone here: https://cryptofresh.com/u/btsx-bitshare)
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on December 21, 2016, 10:57:50 pm
there are only one  BTS,
the BTS in polo is the same as in BTC38
I don't understand why get CNY feed from BTC38 but get USD feed from polo
you can always sell/buy BTS with both BTC38/POLO

in my script, I get CNY/BTS from BTC38/yunbi, get CNY/BTS from okcoin/huobi...., then transfer CNY/BTS to BTC/BTS
calculate  the BTC feed from all exchange based on custom weight include: BTC38/POLO/yunbi...
then calculate all others feed price from this BTC feed price.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on January 06, 2017, 02:05:39 pm
today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 06, 2017, 02:10:33 pm
today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.

Note - datasecuritynode wasn't being voted for by your proxy before anyway.

I would suggest we create a worker proposal to gain access to more price feed data rather than continuing to rely on bottom of the barrel free data. Vote for it?
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on January 06, 2017, 02:48:15 pm
today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.

Note - datasecuritynode wasn't being voted for by your proxy before anyway.

I would suggest we create a worker proposal to gain access to more price feed data rather than continuing to rely on bottom of the barrel free data. Vote for it?

I  don't understand why worker proposal are needed here.
if some witnesses have proved that they can provide professional price feed for free(no more than the block generation reward), then why should I vote for the worker propossal?
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 06, 2017, 02:56:57 pm
today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.

Note - datasecuritynode wasn't being voted for by your proxy before anyway.

I would suggest we create a worker proposal to gain access to more price feed data rather than continuing to rely on bottom of the barrel free data. Vote for it?

I  don't understand why worker proposal are needed here.
if some witnesses have proved that they can provide professional price feed for free(no more than the block generation reward), then why should I vote for the worker propossal?


I'm just going by what you said.. not professional enough. I never seen free as ever being professional enough.. so I am recommending we do things professional and proper and have paid data feeds that are the same quality as all the major forex markets around the world.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: lil_jay890 on January 06, 2017, 03:47:28 pm
today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.

Note - datasecuritynode wasn't being voted for by your proxy before anyway.

I would suggest we create a worker proposal to gain access to more price feed data rather than continuing to rely on bottom of the barrel free data. Vote for it?

I  don't understand why worker proposal are needed here.
if some witnesses have proved that they can provide professional price feed for free(no more than the block generation reward), then why should I vote for the worker propossal?


I'm just going by what you said.. not professional enough. I never seen free as ever being professional enough.. so I am recommending we do things professional and proper and have paid data feeds that are the same quality as all the major forex markets around the world.

I think what bitcrab is getting at is that witness's should provide a quality robust price feed.  They are being paid by the blockchain to produce blocks and provide a reliable feed.  Providing this reliable feed is well within the scope and responsibility of the witness and shouldn't be subsidized by a worker proposal.

That said, I know feeds for assets can be expensive.  Right now, a witness would run at a net loss if they were to subscribe to a professional price feed like Bloomberg.

The witness's that can find a balance between robustness and cost effectiveness of the price feeds are going to be the ones that get and stay elected.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on January 06, 2017, 03:51:07 pm
we must contact these witness, ask them stop publish price for CNY immediately,
the depth from yunbi is too worse, 300K BTS can dump the price to zero
and the feed price of CNY will be zero if these witness still publish their feed
 
today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: yvv on January 06, 2017, 04:06:57 pm
Market fee could be used to pay for price feeds too.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 06, 2017, 06:05:50 pm
I think what bitcrab is getting at is that witness's should provide a quality robust price feed.  They are being paid by the blockchain to produce blocks and provide a reliable feed. Providing this reliable feed is well within the scope and responsibility of the witness and shouldn't be subsidized by a worker proposal.

That said, I know feeds for assets can be expensive.  Right now, a witness would run at a net loss if they were to subscribe to a professional price feed like Bloomberg.

The witness's that can find a balance between robustness and cost effectiveness of the price feeds are going to be the ones that get and stay elected.

Witnesses are NOT paid to produce feeds... it is an ongoing expense to witnesses. Some do not publish as often as others as a result.

If you want to have 'reliable feeds' then what I am saying is relying on free sources is by no means reliable. Those that are using a few other sources are by no means providing real 'robustness' to the network. It is paper thin now even with others publishing. So we have a choice to make. We continue to treat bitassets like a hobby, or get them to a level that is robust and reliable.

I am proposing a fix instead of a bandaide in my estimation.

In the interim I am going to stop publishing CNY as suggested and following suit with other witnesses until there are enough reliable markets available to support it.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: lil_jay890 on January 06, 2017, 06:15:35 pm
I think what bitcrab is getting at is that witness's should provide a quality robust price feed.  They are being paid by the blockchain to produce blocks and provide a reliable feed. Providing this reliable feed is well within the scope and responsibility of the witness and shouldn't be subsidized by a worker proposal.

That said, I know feeds for assets can be expensive.  Right now, a witness would run at a net loss if they were to subscribe to a professional price feed like Bloomberg.

The witness's that can find a balance between robustness and cost effectiveness of the price feeds are going to be the ones that get and stay elected.

Witnesses are NOT paid to produce feeds... it is an ongoing expense to witnesses. Some do not publish as often as others as a result.

If you want to have 'reliable feeds' then what I am saying is relying on free sources is by no means reliable. Those that are using a few other sources are by no means providing real 'robustness' to the network. It is paper thin now even with others publishing. So we have a choice to make. We continue to treat bitassets like a hobby, or get them to a level that is robust and reliable.

I am proposing a fix instead of a bandaide in my estimation.

In the interim I am going to stop publishing CNY as suggested and following suit with other witnesses until there are enough reliable markets available to support it.

Personally I have expected that if a witness wants to get voted in, providing price feeds is part of the deal.  The better the price feed the more satisfied I am with the witness I'm voting for.  If a witness is going to knowingly provide bad data, then all the more reason to vote them out in favor of one who will take the job more seriously.  I get that problems can occur, but this has been brought to the at fault witness's in the past and in most cases there has been little to no response.

There may not be any requirement that witness's provide price feeds, but the shareholders should and most likely will vote in witness's who provide the most value... It's capitalism and competion. And it's a better solution than having BTS pay for it.  There are already witness's out there doing a good job with the price feeds.

Plus having BTS pay for a feed that all the witness's end up using kind of goes against the whole decentralization principles.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 06, 2017, 06:29:15 pm
I think what bitcrab is getting at is that witness's should provide a quality robust price feed.  They are being paid by the blockchain to produce blocks and provide a reliable feed. Providing this reliable feed is well within the scope and responsibility of the witness and shouldn't be subsidized by a worker proposal.

That said, I know feeds for assets can be expensive.  Right now, a witness would run at a net loss if they were to subscribe to a professional price feed like Bloomberg.

The witness's that can find a balance between robustness and cost effectiveness of the price feeds are going to be the ones that get and stay elected.

Witnesses are NOT paid to produce feeds... it is an ongoing expense to witnesses. Some do not publish as often as others as a result.

If you want to have 'reliable feeds' then what I am saying is relying on free sources is by no means reliable. Those that are using a few other sources are by no means providing real 'robustness' to the network. It is paper thin now even with others publishing. So we have a choice to make. We continue to treat bitassets like a hobby, or get them to a level that is robust and reliable.

I am proposing a fix instead of a bandaide in my estimation.

In the interim I am going to stop publishing CNY as suggested and following suit with other witnesses until there are enough reliable markets available to support it.

Personally I have expected that if a witness wants to get voted in, providing price feeds is part of the deal.  The better the price feed the more satisfied I am with the witness I'm voting for.  If a witness is going to knowingly provide bad data, then all the more reason to vote them out in favor of one who will take the job more seriously.  I get that problems can occur, but this has been brought to the at fault witness's in the past and in most cases there has been little to no response.

There may not be any requirement that witness's provide price feeds, but the shareholders should and most likely will vote in witness's who provide the most value... It's capitalism and competion. And it's a better solution than having BTS pay for it.  There are already witness's out there doing a good job with the price feeds.

Plus having BTS pay for a feed that all the witness's end up using kind of goes against the whole decentralization principles.


In that case increase the block reward in consideration of feed subscriptions. I just see the worker as a quicker path.

Though if we increase the block reward and we see witnesses still not increasing their feed data then I guess that would certainly qualify them for getting voted out.

Anyways.. its not my fight anymore since the recent vote manipulations have reduced our decentralization from 27 down to 21. I am not longer a witness. My feeds on standby though are no longer going to publish CNY as I said until this is resolved. I had 5 sources and of the 5 only one is currently responding. If myself or other witnesses has reliable paid data sources this would be a nonissue. Fixed.

Maybe voting out all witnesses and leaving the 13 or so who are publishing CNY is the way to go.. lets consolidate the witness count even more to make sure we can get a good CNY price for free. If I see others agreeing with this I will turn my proxy to vote only for those 13 witnesses. Lets make Bitshares great again! <s/c>
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: yvv on January 06, 2017, 06:38:37 pm
It actually makes sense to pay separately for producing blocks and for publishing price feeds, because these are two different jobs which require different efforts. 
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: kimziv on January 07, 2017, 02:23:46 am
hi, @xeroc, my witness feed price have removed yunbi serveral days ago.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: btswildpig on January 07, 2017, 02:56:52 am
I start to see the attractiveness in Bitcoin.

Miners have to put in chuck load of money to fight for the job of block production without demanding "reasonable market fee" because market principle and competition are the only factors that matters .

You think you can be be guaranteed fixed incomes ? Fine , don't do mining, others will do it .

There is no job security in Bitcoin. No guaranteed  status, even the big miners have to purchase more advanced mining machines from time to time to be at the top of the food chain.

As for technical advancement, I think seg-wit will come to fruition. Once you have enough capital in the field, all "issues" will be fixed overtime as time have shown.

It's not about how many dilution you can give to developers that matters.
It's about how people and capital keep rushing in regardless of the slim the chance of guaranteed of profit in the field. When you buy a mining machine, no one in the network will promise you that it will  be worth your while, but you know in your heart that the potential will be well worth the risks and efforts . 

BTS is not growing rapidly is not because we don't have enough worker dilution to pay for this and that .
It's because despite of having a suppose "high pay market salary" daily in their respective jobs , developers still feels like if you don't take BTS from the system fast enough and sell it fast enough , the ship may not be there, and it will be stupid to buy BTS with actual money while the price is low to bet on the potential of its future like the rest of the market participants.

If you trust your work will be beneficial to BTS, buy it more than the ordinary folks who have no such "in sight", hold it , develop your work , and enjoy more potentials than the ones who are not aware of the huge significance of your work.  if you are thinking about risks , sorry , that means all the talk about your work's value is pure fiction. 

Imagine if Bitcoin miners were to ask at day one to be compensated for their mining cost and guaranteed  income, will Bitcoin be where it is today ?

The same goes to witness who want to be compensated for providing a good price feed
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on January 07, 2017, 03:23:39 am
I'm glad to see many new witness begin to  join us and promise to provide more professional price feed
it's the vote proxy's responsibility to vote out the lazy witness

stand out if you want take more responsibility, witnesses
choose the responsible witness, proxies
and give your vote to the proxies who can make a better choice, share holders.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 07, 2017, 04:20:02 am
I start to see the attractiveness in Bitcoin.

Miners have to put in chuck load of money to fight for the job of block production without demanding "reasonable market fee" because market principle and competition are the only factors that matters .

You think you can be be guaranteed fixed incomes ? Fine , don't do mining, others will do it .

There is no job security in Bitcoin. No guaranteed  status, even the big miners have to purchase more advanced mining machines from time to time to be at the top of the food chain.

As for technical advancement, I think seg-wit will come to fruition. Once you have enough capital in the field, all "issues" will be fixed overtime as time have shown.

It's not about how many dilution you can give to developers that matters.
It's about how people and capital keep rushing in regardless of the slim the chance of guaranteed of profit in the field. When you buy a mining machine, no one in the network will promise you that it will  be worth your while, but you know in your heart that the potential will be well worth the risks and efforts . 

BTS is not growing rapidly is not because we don't have enough worker dilution to pay for this and that .
It's because despite of having a suppose "high pay market salary" daily in their respective jobs , developers still feels like if you don't take BTS from the system fast enough and sell it fast enough , the ship may not be there, and it will be stupid to buy BTS with actual money while the price is low to bet on the potential of its future like the rest of the market participants.

If you trust your work will be beneficial to BTS, buy it more than the ordinary folks who have no such "in sight", hold it , develop your work , and enjoy more potentials than the ones who are not aware of the huge significance of your work.  if you are thinking about risks , sorry , that means all the talk about your work's value is pure fiction. 

Imagine if Bitcoin miners were to ask at day one to be compensated for their mining cost and guaranteed  income, will Bitcoin be where it is today ?

The same goes to witness who want to be compensated for providing a good price feed

Those are some interesting observations.. but they have nothing to do with my assertion that if you want to have any kind of professional trading going on Bitshares then we better have reliable feed data. Witnesses are not the source of that data. They can only provide as good as what is available. Taking a median of a few free sources that can and do come and go works sometimes but not all the time, and that is the issue.

I'm calling for raising the bar... I think everyone might have even forgotten when 2.0 launched that bytemaster talked about the need for more feed providers. He envisioned it as being another element in the network that would be a paid opportunity, similar to how being a hosted wallet provider was supposed to be.

Nobody ever created one though. So 'good enough' became the montra for what few free datafeeds are available. Now though, nobody would dream of creating such a service because the response would be similar to this volunteerism expectation of providing critical always on data to the price feeds.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: btswildpig on January 07, 2017, 04:45:36 am
I start to see the attractiveness in Bitcoin.

Miners have to put in chuck load of money to fight for the job of block production without demanding "reasonable market fee" because market principle and competition are the only factors that matters .

You think you can be be guaranteed fixed incomes ? Fine , don't do mining, others will do it .

There is no job security in Bitcoin. No guaranteed  status, even the big miners have to purchase more advanced mining machines from time to time to be at the top of the food chain.

As for technical advancement, I think seg-wit will come to fruition. Once you have enough capital in the field, all "issues" will be fixed overtime as time have shown.

It's not about how many dilution you can give to developers that matters.
It's about how people and capital keep rushing in regardless of the slim the chance of guaranteed of profit in the field. When you buy a mining machine, no one in the network will promise you that it will  be worth your while, but you know in your heart that the potential will be well worth the risks and efforts . 

BTS is not growing rapidly is not because we don't have enough worker dilution to pay for this and that .
It's because despite of having a suppose "high pay market salary" daily in their respective jobs , developers still feels like if you don't take BTS from the system fast enough and sell it fast enough , the ship may not be there, and it will be stupid to buy BTS with actual money while the price is low to bet on the potential of its future like the rest of the market participants.

If you trust your work will be beneficial to BTS, buy it more than the ordinary folks who have no such "in sight", hold it , develop your work , and enjoy more potentials than the ones who are not aware of the huge significance of your work.  if you are thinking about risks , sorry , that means all the talk about your work's value is pure fiction. 

Imagine if Bitcoin miners were to ask at day one to be compensated for their mining cost and guaranteed  income, will Bitcoin be where it is today ?

The same goes to witness who want to be compensated for providing a good price feed

Those are some interesting observations.. but they have nothing to do with my assertion that if you want to have any kind of professional trading going on Bitshares then we better have reliable feed data. Witnesses are not the source of that data. They can only provide as good as what is available. Taking a median of a few free sources that can and do come and go works sometimes but not all the time, and that is the issue.

I'm calling for raising the bar... I think everyone might have even forgotten when 2.0 launched that bytemaster talked about the need for more feed providers. He envisioned it as being another element in the network that would be a paid opportunity, similar to how being a hosted wallet provider was supposed to be.

Nobody ever created one though. So 'good enough' became the montra for what few free datafeeds are available. Now though, nobody would dream of creating such a service because the response would be similar to this volunteerism expectation of providing critical always on data to the price feeds.

Do high pay professional price feed compensate for the losses of traders if their feed were wrong ? Or just simply getting voted out like the low pay ordinary feeds ?
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Bhuz on January 07, 2017, 09:26:12 am
today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.

I don't take price from yunbi for weeks now, so why my name is still there?

I "fixed" the issue with cny as soon as it was pointed out to our witnesses telegram group.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: xeroc on January 07, 2017, 10:09:15 am
I'm glad to see many new witness begin to  join us and promise to provide more professional price feed
it's the vote proxy's responsibility to vote out the lazy witness

stand out if you want take more responsibility, witnesses
choose the responsible witness, proxies
and give your vote to the proxies who can make a better choice, share holders.
This .. lets bring in some fresh and motivated blood .. i will do my due diligence on new witnesses over the weekend and update my votes on monday ..

I am not very impressed on how current witnesses (except for very few) do not participate in improving the price feed scripts that are available but assume that @xeroc does all the work for them for free ... hopefully the new python libs will help out and make it easier for people to generate a price feed ..
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: btswildpig on January 07, 2017, 12:57:53 pm

i have a idea.
witness that does not provide a professional feed should be voted out .

So, for the ones who actually want to be a witness, they should buy professional price feed from capable script suppliers and managers. Then there will be incomes for the ones who can write a good feed.
(if they do not want to be buy one, just learn how to write a good one themselves. )


Just like how Bitcoin miners need to buy good mining machines in order to participate in block production, and they can not ask the blockchain in advance to pay for the mining machines.

Let the market handles the incentives instead of assuming everything should be paid by the blockchain via worker dilution.

Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on January 07, 2017, 03:46:19 pm
I agree to let the competition machanisim solve the problem: obviously shareholders appreciate and would like to vote the witnesses that provide more and better service.

and AFAIK, to provide good price feed is also possible via free/open source script, for example, alt has published his script at https://pypi.python.org/pypi/btsprice/0.2.21 (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/btsprice/0.2.21), it's a good reference.

on the other side, I wonder whether  we need to consider one question: suppose publishing price feed become what witness must do,  shall we increase the block reward? and to how much?

now being a witness can get some reward, but the reward is not very attractive, we need to balance the responsibility and the reward, maybe we need to reestimate what a reward is more reasonable? maybe a more reasonable reward can lead to more active ecosystem?

kindly give your input on this topic.

@Bhuz sorry if I did things carelessly, I' recheck and take actions accordingly.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Bhuz on January 07, 2017, 04:02:23 pm
Quote
@Bhuz sorry if I did things carelessly, I' recheck and take actions accordingly.
No problem

on the other side, I wonder whether  we need to consider one question: suppose publishing price feed become what witness must do,  shall we increase the block reward? and to how much?

now being a witness can get some reward, but the reward is not very attractive, we need to balance the responsibility and the reward, maybe we need to reestimate what a reward is more reasonable? maybe a more reasonable reward can lead to more active ecosystem?
+1
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 08, 2017, 05:53:36 am
I agree to let the competition machanisim solve the problem: obviously shareholders appreciate and would like to vote the witnesses that provide more and better service.

and AFAIK, to provide good price feed is also possible via free/open source script, for example, alt has published his script at https://pypi.python.org/pypi/btsprice/0.2.21 (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/btsprice/0.2.21), it's a good reference.

on the other side, I wonder whether  we need to consider one question: suppose publishing price feed become what witness must do,  shall we increase the block reward? and to how much?

now being a witness can get some reward, but the reward is not very attractive, we need to balance the responsibility and the reward, maybe we need to reestimate what a reward is more reasonable? maybe a more reasonable reward can lead to more active ecosystem?

kindly give your input on this topic.

@Bhuz sorry if I did things carelessly, I' recheck and take actions accordingly.

Competition COULD be part of the mechanism. Proxies are making choices about who to vote for for other reasons however. The way the system is now that is their right. However, we cannot claim this to be a competitive field so long as the voting is done by different rules for each proxy voter and stakeholders.

In other words, you cannot expect people to compete in a competition where the rules are not clear for being a witness. I can point to myself for example. Regardless of fulfilling what I and many consider the parameters of what is needed for a witness, I still do not get your vote. So if you want competition, you have to offer a fair playing field. It doesn't exist now. In Bitcoin mining as @btswildpig likes to keep referring to, such competition is all just mathematics. Those that enter into that play field can simply do the math and calculate the reward/risk and invest accordingly. Comparing that to what happens is DPOS is utterly futile.

Sure there are plenty of free feed scripts, however the primary issue which this thread claims is the sources being the problem. Specifically Yunbi and its thin and easily manipulated market. I have chosen to remove Yunbi entirely as a feed source thus, and have enabled some other sources for publishing CNY. My price appears to be similar to abits now in its median.

If publishing feeds are to become 'officially' part of being a witness, then the process the way it works now would be reversed. Each witness would generate blocks at random intervals as they do now, and at random intervals the blockchain would query the witness for feed data. If it is not available, then there is no 'reward' for the generated data. This would help a number of factors over the way the current way works. Right now being completely voluntary you have some witnesses publishing at different intervals than others.. some every hour or every several hours, while others more frequent like every several minutes (as I do).

Now with feeds being 'unofficially' part of what witnesses do, witnesses are disincentivized to publish data feeds because they are an expense. Some of the TOP voted for witnesses (including ones you vote for) do not publish very often only for the sake of not having to pay as much BTS fees. This is doing nothing good for the median price in my estimation. I maybe wrong, but I think having as close to real time data as possible certainly makes the DEX look more attractive and impressive than a floating median that bears no resemblance to any current pricing due to a motley crew of variable price times.

To have it something they must do as part of the job description, but increase the price, might be helpful, but only if the 'rules of the game' are clearly defined. eg. a witness MUST publish feeds at a minimum of every 5 minutes. If a witness settings are shown not to follow the rules, then votes should be removed regardless of the political implications or nepotism. That's the only way to have competition.

Increasing the block reward would certainly make for raising the bar more attractive and bring in new blood. Again though I come back to the rules of the playing field, without that, we can never attract anyone to want to play. The current compensation makes being a witness a hobby at best. It is not monetarily attractive as current compensation for running optimal nodes instead of minimal ones is break even at best. The only saving grace now is that because there is zero development happening on the blockchain and thus no new version updates due to no worker proposals, it doesn't require a lot of time.

I already know the arguments against increasing the reward are going to be that we should be willing to settle for less and work harder to increase the value of BTS so that what we get becomes more valuable. Nobody in the crypto space is going to tolerate this line of thinking for long when they can go to other projects and get paid reasonably well for even less effort than what goes into being a witness (eg. dash master nodes). So this volunteerism fantasy really needs to be considered just that, a fantasy, and we need to start presenting BTS in a unified community manner that is no nonsense, rational, exciting, and profitable.

Proposal:

Worker proposal is made to pay out to witnesses for professional feed data. The worker proposal will be administered by a trustee who operates a script. The script will take all BTS and borrow bitUSD collateralized at 300%. It will then daily distribute the bitUSD to all the witnesses based on the number of publishings done daily to a certain maximum, and the number of markets that were published too. Ideally if all witnesses are participating they should all receive the same reward. However, if some are doing better than others, they will get more. Competition keeps everyone going for the greater reward, or at least keeps everyone putting MAXIMUM effort into getting the rewards that are available for publishing feeds.

It would be more ideal if we could know just how many data feed sources are being used, but the current system doesn't support that in any transparent way. If it didn't then I would suggest rewards be distributed based on number of sources.

That is my input on this topic.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on January 08, 2017, 12:02:43 pm
whether we can call it competition is not so important, a similar thing is US President election, are there clearly defined what kind of people should be elected president? no, but is this a competition? I think so. the final result comes from competition.
to qualify witness, take the "feed price every 5 min" as an example, at the time that the market price does not change in 30 mins, why should the witness publish price every 5 min?

another example is, several witnesses removed yunbi price when they are told that yunbi price is easy to manipulate, however alt's script uses a different alogrithm: it collect orders from different exchanges, including yunbi, and simulate to put these orders together to generate a result price, so this gives each exchange the weight it should have, right? but before this script comes out, I don't know the price script can be coded like this.

in my view price feed is such an area that it is easy to judge which witness doing well but it's not easy to hard code some rules to determine which nodes is qualified.

as a proxy, in long run I think I will vote witness that
1. generate block with low block missing rate.
2. publish price that reflect market price exactly and globally enough, maybe no need to be very frequent, but when market price changes obviously, need to publish price in time.

maybe I will unvote all the witnesses that does not publish price. however I think we need first reach some conclusion on the reward issue.

I do not like the worker proposal advice, as it depends on trustee, not decentralized enough.

the voting machanisim can work without clearly defined game rule, just as a satisfactory president can comes out from the general election. of course, a lot of communication are needed here between the proxy/stakeholders and the candidates.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Chronos on January 08, 2017, 07:48:10 pm
I do not like the worker proposal advice, as it depends on trustee, not decentralized enough.
I agree on this point. Though it's a bit off-topic, I'm also wary, in general, of workers that short BitUSD to pay out. It creates a complexity that may be difficult to unwind in the future.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 08, 2017, 08:51:16 pm
whether we can call it competition is not so important, a similar thing is US President election, are there clearly defined what kind of people should be elected president? no, but is this a competition? I think so. the final result comes from competition.
to qualify witness, take the "feed price every 5 min" as an example, at the time that the market price does not change in 30 mins, why should the witness publish price every 5 min?

another example is, several witnesses removed yunbi price when they are told that yunbi price is easy to manipulate, however alt's script uses a different alogrithm: it collect orders from different exchanges, including yunbi, and simulate to put these orders together to generate a result price, so this gives each exchange the weight it should have, right? but before this script comes out, I don't know the price script can be coded like this.

in my view price feed is such an area that it is easy to judge which witness doing well but it's not easy to hard code some rules to determine which nodes is qualified.

as a proxy, in long run I think I will vote witness that
1. generate block with low block missing rate.
2. publish price that reflect market price exactly and globally enough, maybe no need to be very frequent, but when market price changes obviously, need to publish price in time.

maybe I will unvote all the witnesses that does not publish price. however I think we need first reach some conclusion on the reward issue.

I do not like the worker proposal advice, as it depends on trustee, not decentralized enough.

the voting machanisim can work without clearly defined game rule, just as a satisfactory president can comes out from the general election. of course, a lot of communication are needed here between the proxy/stakeholders and the candidates.

There are rules to being able to qualify for election for president. It is not ruleless. In the above however this is being conflated with electioneering. Before they even get into the game, they have rules to follow and know what can and cannot be done. There are laws. Witnesses have nothing but the whim of some people who have no clear guidelines, rules, or to compare to running for President of the USA, laws, that they can then follow to become a candidate.

You want competition to be a factor, then there has to be a playing field that has rules and/or guidelines that can be followed and considered.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on January 09, 2017, 02:52:38 am

There are rules to being able to qualify for election for president. It is not ruleless. In the above however this is being conflated with electioneering. Before they even get into the game, they have rules to follow and know what can and cannot be done. There are laws. Witnesses have nothing but the whim of some people who have no clear guidelines, rules, or to compare to running for President of the USA, laws, that they can then follow to become a candidate.

You want competition to be a factor, then there has to be a playing field that has rules and/or guidelines that can be followed and considered.

what you are talking is just the enter threshold: following the law, and maybe also the candidate should be born in US? ... however, following these is just the precondition to enter the game, it does not guarntee anyone to become the president.

there are some general guidelines for what a president should do - a US president should make US economy grow, should bring happiness to US people, and make US great. but there's no guildlines for how to get this done, no guidelines on how to cope with the illegal immigrants, how to attract overseas investment, whether should to pay more on defense and anti-terrorism...on the contrary, the candidates should give their idea on these issues and try to get support.

similiarly, we also have enter threshold for being a witness - you need to run a witness node. however, running a witness node does not guarntee that you'll be voted as active witness.generally speaking, voters would like to support the witness that provide better service, but I don't think we need to define "better service" on each detail,  if the proxy and witness keep on communicate with each other, the voting precedure will make better service comes out.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: rnglab on January 09, 2017, 01:51:34 pm
I agree to let the competition machanisim solve the problem: obviously shareholders appreciate and would like to vote the witnesses that provide more and better service.

and AFAIK, to provide good price feed is also possible via free/open source script, for example, alt has published his script at https://pypi.python.org/pypi/btsprice/0.2.21 (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/btsprice/0.2.21), it's a good reference.

on the other side, I wonder whether  we need to consider one question: suppose publishing price feed become what witness must do,  shall we increase the block reward? and to how much?

now being a witness can get some reward, but the reward is not very attractive, we need to balance the responsibility and the reward, maybe we need to reestimate what a reward is more reasonable? maybe a more reasonable reward can lead to more active ecosystem?

kindly give your input on this topic.

@Bhuz sorry if I did things carelessly, I' recheck and take actions accordingly.

 @alt  runs a bussines which depends on precise and resilient feeds. His code skills along with a real incentive, brings us a good chance to improve the way we fetch and derive external prices.
Besides that I think it would be more productive to fork and improve @xeroc script, as a way to sum the scarce resources we have on this topic. 

Some conditions have to be given for diversity to be enriching, and for fair competition to exist at all. In the meanwhile, I think that cooperation is the way to go. Competition will favor aptitude and commitment only when we become able to incentivize it.


 Some numbers:

  - Witness reward averaged something around $200/month this year.

 - Let's say a regular VPS with 8Gb RAM costs 80 USD per month, and 50 USD for 4Gb.
 - That is a 150 USD reward for witnesses running just one node with only 4Gb  (at its very memory limit).
 - There's a 120 USD incentive to have 8Gb on just one node, with no failover at all.
 - Even running two 4Gb nodes with a proper failover strategy (for ~100 USD), both  nodes could easily crash if RAM becomes not enough.

Automatic fork resolution is working great, but it has not been prooven beyond our current TPS.
With checkpoints and delayed nodes, we have revived the network in less than an hour with no major consequences when forks turned into lost of consensus.
But I wouldn't like to see the network crashing just when the real action starts.

 - It seems to me that having two 8Gb nodes per witness, with failover able to identify and move away from minority forks (when possible with just two nodes), are the minimum technical requirements to handle the upcoming network growth. That means a reward of 40 USD per month at most.
Add seed nodes and the time required to constantly check and fix feeds, having everything up to date and the need to remain informed in a daily basis.

That means good withesses working at a loss, while icentivizing poor performance for a proffit.



This also brings another concern to me: as many good neutral witnesses lack of incentive or resources/time despite they good will, it drives business to run it's own witnesses given their need to have reliable feeds.
I see a flaw here:  business tend to have more resources, voting stake, reward incentives and thus good performance , this raises their motivation and chances to have many witnesses voted in.
As business models may disagree about market parameters that are defined by feed producers, this could lead to unfair competition or other undesirable behavors, specially now that new/unknown players are steadily arriving.

This is one of the reasons why witnesses, committee and proxies were planed as independent powers.



I'm not pushing to rise block rewards here, nor discouraging our most valuable witnesses who also runs business over bitshares.
 I still enjoy being reliable and helpful as a witness, rewards aside, and  I'm glad to see this debate going on in a constructive way, finally.
Just want to sumarize some facts I see.

At this point we really need a good balance between competition and collaborative work to make network and market more stable and to reduce the entry barriers.

Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: rnglab on January 09, 2017, 01:58:47 pm
Sorry for the low response when CNY volume moved from btc38 and yunbi to other exchanges. It is fixed now.

Also I remained publishing acceptable GOLD and SILVER prices when Yahoo started to bring strange values, as I've added an Quandl API key shortly after xeroc added it as a feedsource.

Now I'm fetching GC and SI from Yahoo instead of XAU and XAG as abit suggested. I also applied his patch to derive prices across 3 markets and everything looks good.

Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on January 10, 2017, 05:18:22 am
@alt  runs a bussines which depends on precise and resilient feeds. His code skills along with a real incentive, brings us a good chance to improve the way we fetch and derive external prices.
Besides that I think it would be more productive to fork and improve @xeroc script, as a way to sum the scarce resources we have on this topic. 

Some conditions have to be given for diversity to be enriching, and for fair competition to exist at all. In the meanwhile, I think that cooperation is the way to go. Competition will favor aptitude and commitment only when we become able to incentivize it.


 Some numbers:

  - Witness reward averaged something around $200/month this year.

 - Let's say a regular VPS with 8Gb RAM costs 80 USD per month, and 50 USD for 4Gb.
 - That is a 150 USD reward for witnesses running just one node with only 4Gb  (at its very memory limit).
 - There's a 120 USD incentive to have 8Gb on just one node, with no failover at all.
 - Even running two 4Gb nodes with a proper failover strategy (for ~100 USD), both  nodes could easily crash if RAM becomes not enough.

Automatic fork resolution is working great, but it has not been prooven beyond our current TPS.
With checkpoints and delayed nodes, we have revived the network in less than an hour with no major consequences when forks turned into lost of consensus.
But I wouldn't like to see the network crashing just when the real action starts.

 - It seems to me that having two 8Gb nodes per witness, with failover able to identify and move away from minority forks (when possible with just two nodes), are the minimum technical requirements to handle the upcoming network growth. That means a reward of 40 USD per month at most.
Add seed nodes and the time required to constantly check and fix feeds, having everything up to date and the need to remain informed in a daily basis.

That means good withesses working at a loss, while icentivizing poor performance for a proffit.



This also brings another concern to me: as many good neutral witnesses lack of incentive or resources/time despite they good will, it drives business to run it's own witnesses given their need to have reliable feeds.
I see a flaw here:  business tend to have more resources, voting stake, reward incentives and thus good performance , this raises their motivation and chances to have many witnesses voted in.
As business models may disagree about market parameters that are defined by feed producers, this could lead to unfair competition or other undesirable behavors, specially now that new/unknown players are steadily arriving.

This is one of the reasons why witnesses, committee and proxies were planed as independent powers.



I'm not pushing to rise block rewards here, nor discouraging our most valuable witnesses who also runs business over bitshares.
 I still enjoy being reliable and helpful as a witness, rewards aside, and  I'm glad to see this debate going on in a constructive way, finally.
Just want to sumarize some facts I see.

At this point we really need a good balance between competition and collaborative work to make network and market more stable and to reduce the entry barriers.

this summary convinced me that we need to seriously consider to rise block reward.

while the trading volume keep growing, we need better witness service: stable block generation, reliable fork resolution, better price feed, and maybe even more witness nodes. all these need witnesses to pay more effort and cost.

I believe that many people enjoy contributing to the community as a witness with caring little to the reward, but the growing network should depend not only on good will, but also on reasonable business models. if we demand each witness node to provide high quality service, the block reward should match the effort and cost they have to pay. and then more witness will come and compete.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on January 10, 2017, 05:20:04 am
Sorry for the low response when CNY volume moved from btc38 and yunbi to other exchanges. It is fixed now.

Also I remained publishing acceptable GOLD and SILVER prices when Yahoo started to bring strange values, as I've added an Quandl API key shortly after xeroc added it as a feedsource.

Now I'm fetching GC and SI from Yahoo instead of XAU and XAG as abit suggested. I also applied his patch to derive prices across 3 markets and everything looks good.

thanks, revoted, I am also trying to run a witness in order to understand the witness thing more deeply.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Thom on January 16, 2017, 04:40:30 pm
today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.

Note - datasecuritynode wasn't being voted for by your proxy before anyway.

I would suggest we create a worker proposal to gain access to more price feed data rather than continuing to rely on bottom of the barrel free data. Vote for it?

I  don't understand why worker proposal are needed here.
if some witnesses have proved that they can provide professional price feed for free(no more than the block generation reward), then why should I vote for the worker propossal?

Why? Because it is now obvious to me the issue is the sources. You are not looking rationally at the issue. If you are making claims that alt can do it, why can't you too?, I would claim alt somehow is getting data from inside the Great Wall and everyone else has to rely on unreliable sources outside.

THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM THAT IS NOT BEING RECOGNIZED BY THE CHINESE

The sequestered info due to the Chinese firewall is a major issue for western witnesses, wake up and listen to us. Our free sources are not reliable. Btc38 has been very bad. My observations over the last year agree with DataSecurityNode's.

We need to get to the bottom of unreliable sources. If the free sources were that good we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Thom on January 16, 2017, 04:48:13 pm
Plus having BTS pay for a feed that all the witness's end up using kind of goes against the whole decentralization principles.

Who said anything about a single source paid or otherwise for ALL witnesses. It's NOT HELPFUL to jump to such conclusions. Let's stop this blame game and start figuring out the cause of the issue really lies and work together to resolve it.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Thom on January 16, 2017, 04:50:32 pm
It actually makes sense to pay separately for producing blocks and for publishing price feeds, because these are two different jobs which require different efforts.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: lil_jay890 on January 16, 2017, 06:03:50 pm
Plus having BTS pay for a feed that all the witness's end up using kind of goes against the whole decentralization principles.

Who said anything about a single source paid or otherwise for ALL witnesses. It's NOT HELPFUL to jump to such conclusions. Let's stop this blame game and start figuring out the cause of the issue really lies and work together to resolve it.

I was saying that if a worker was put together to purchase a price feed, say from Bloomberg, that all the witness's would tend to use that price feed.  It would be the cheap and easy option for the witness's to do that.  Hence decreasing the decentralization of the system since most would use the provided feed.

And if the witness's decided not to use the worker provided feed, what is the point of having a worker provided feed?
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Thom on January 17, 2017, 02:04:56 am
First, I'm glad some here are finally realizing there's a helluva lot more to running a witness than producing feeds. Thanks for seeing that @bitcrab.
@DataSecurityNode and @rnglab have the most comprehensive perspectives of anyone else I see posting in this thread. Everyone else has tunnel vision on the feeds issue.

Granted, my own eyes are now open to the feeds problem now. Perhaps I'm guilty of letting others (i.e. wackou) handle the feeds, just like most others use xeroc's feed scripts to handle theirs. My focus has been more on running 4 full nodes at minimal cost. How many other witnesses are running a seed node let alone 3?

Like I've been saying since day 1, the knowledge required to produce feeds is quite different than the knowledge to maintain fault tolerant, up-to-date, decentralized witness and seed nodes. It requires monitoring and automation, lots of IT skills and the ability to gauge when to upgrade, how to spin up new instances and where to get the best hosting and how it should be distributed around the planet. It requires a high degree of security awareness.

Producing feeds require a small amount of those skills. Producing quality and accurate feeds involves finding reliable data sources or developing algorithms as apparently @alt did to monitor trades on exchanges as well as utilize any other spotty and less reliable data from free sources. It requires much more of a trader perspective, and better statistics and math skills to aggregate a final, accurate result.
 
I recognize we need to come up with a better solution to the feeds issue, as well as the overall problem of how to sustain the basic infrastructure of the platform. Feeds are certainly a part of that, especially if we want adoption to increase. But lets not neglect the other important issues in the process of fixing feeds.

Hence decreasing the decentralization of the system since most would use the provided feed.

And if the witness's decided not to use the worker provided feed, what is the point of having a worker provided feed?

What you describe is NOT decentralized if everybody uses the same (paid) feed source. IF a worker proposal is deemed to be the best way to obtain reliable feed data, then multiple sources would be required, or else we have an Achilles heel dependency issue.

We have at least 4 different people (xeroc, abit, alt, wackou) who have created feed scripts, and only 1 claims to have an accurate result, that being alt. Who's to say the trades alt monitors will always be the correct benchmark? Who decides which feed is accurate? Compared with what? Perhaps we need a professional, paid data source as a reference for comparison.

This feed issue is why so many others in the crypto space argue oracles don't work and why the concept of BitAssets won't either. Granted, it's not an easy problem to resolve, but there seems to be a big difference of opinion on the reliability and accuracy of the free sources available. Why else did @alt take the time to develop an algorithm to obtain prices by monitoring trades?

Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on January 17, 2017, 03:56:28 am
camera and phone are different things, but finally they are integrated in iPone, what make this happen? demand to covenience, economy consideration and technology improvement.

so there is not a problem for a witness to do both block generation and price feed, to update skills or to cooperate are both ways to solve the problem. no need to worry that seldom can do both, after the increase of witness pay there will be enough candidates there that can make the tasks done.

I don't care whether you select to use alt's script, to buy data from Bloomberg or to code script yourself. as a proxy and a trader I only care the accuracy of the feeded price, it's not difficult for an active trader to judge whether the feed price is accurate enough, explain and vote accordingly.

workers always bring complex and create new problems so it is not a good choice here.



Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Thom on January 17, 2017, 05:35:59 pm
camera and phone are different things, but finally they are integrated in iPone, what make this happen? demand to covenience, economy consideration and technology improvement.

so there is not a problem for a witness to do both block generation and price feed, to update skills or to cooperate are both ways to solve the problem. no need to worry that seldom can do both, after the increase of witness pay there will be enough candidates there that can make the tasks done.

I don't care whether you select to use alt's script, to buy data from Bloomberg or to code script yourself. as a proxy and a trader I only care the accuracy of the feeded price, it's not difficult for an active trader to judge whether the feed price is accurate enough, explain and vote accordingly.

workers always bring complex and create new problems so it is not a good choice here.

I tend to agree with you that a worker proposal is not the best option.

I don't think your analogy with the iPhone is a very good one, because a huge, capital intensive corporation, in fact an entire industry of different corporations, took many years to evolve communications technology into what became the iPhone design. We don't have the luxury of waiting for such an evolutionary process.

How many coders and IT engineers have degrees in economics? How many are mathematicians or statisticians? How many are expert or frequent traders? How many of those understand the ins and outs of the server hosting industry and networking?

There is a well recognized benefit to the division of labor. It usually produces better results than jack of all trades workers who don't have the specialty knowledge and therefore miss things or compromise the quality of the job just to get it done.

As I already pointed out, we've had 3 out of four fail at delivery reliable, accurate feeds according the cries from the east.

Splitting the roles into 2 makes a lot of sense. Pay can be focused to where it is needed most when it is needed. Skills appropriate the the task can be brought to bear without compromising quality of either role. There's no guarantee that increasing block pay rate will fix the feed issue. Some witnesses may use the increase to improve server infrastructure and put only a small amount if any towards feeds. Splitting the roles avoids that possibility.

Since there are zero guidelines on what is expected for feed producers I suggest we start there. Why don't those of you who have issues with feeds take some time to think about what your expectations are and communicate them here. Consider feed publishing frequency, sources, a definition of accuracy, whatever you expect from a feed producer. Just saying you want accurate feeds does not help. What you think is accurate others might not and vice-versa.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Pheonike on January 18, 2017, 12:30:10 am
As the Bitshares grows up, the amount of resources needed for running a witness will grow. As envisioned early on, witnesses will be mini companies unto themselves. When Bitshares reaches 5 Billion and more, people are going to want a professional team running these nodes and not some guy doing it part-time. So we should start grooming that kind of talent now and not until performance starts to suffer because we have amateur witnesses.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Xeldal on January 19, 2017, 02:59:49 am
My feeds are back up today.  They were down for sometime after updating the script I was using caused errors I was unable to reconcile (seemingly) short of re-writing the whole thing, which I have since started doing.   Given that my bots are already polling markets and prices from all over, it shouldn't be too much to translate and expand this to provide another source of feed pricing.   At the moment I'm using Alts script but intend to continue developing my own as a fallback and eventually as a primary source for myself. 

I'd appreciate a returned vote from anyone who may have removed their support during this down time.  Thanks.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Thom on January 31, 2017, 05:30:53 pm
One point to make note of that I may have somewhat overlooked before is that the OP bases his analysis on prices obtained on yunbi. He even admits yunbi is a low volume exchange. In reviewing my logs I see more errors from yunbi than any other feed source. Basing the analysis or using yunbi as a basis for price accuracy is a flawed premise.

I approve of @bitcrab's BSIP proposal (https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/22), however I disagree with him about using yunbi as a criteria for evaluating witness performance.

I agree with @bitcrab that more standards should be developed for evaluating witness performance, including standards for feed reliability and accuracy.

Standards for feed accuracy need to take into account the reliability of feed sources as well.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on February 21, 2017, 12:49:32 am
wrong price from delegate.ihashfury and  spartako

(http://wx3.sinaimg.cn/large/5d9c0487gy1fcxssv7rp6j21dq0chtat.jpg)
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on February 21, 2017, 03:10:08 am
and which price do you think is more professinal?
most feed price is 0.0272
some price is 0.0299
my price is 0.0278 CNY/BTS

the median feed price is 0.0272,  some people realized this, and have ask for a settlement about 10K CNY.

wrong price from delegate.ihashfury and  spartako

(http://wx3.sinaimg.cn/large/5d9c0487gy1fcxssv7rp6j21dq0chtat.jpg)
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: bitcrab on February 21, 2017, 03:31:59 am
(http://p1.bqimg.com/523014/1f40187109eb0f3f.png)

just now two feed price come: 0.0264CNY/BTS and 0.267CNY/BTS

however, now in yunbi and btc38, the price is above 0.277CNY

and in polo, BTS price is 0.00000364BTC and BTC price is 1084USDT.

now BTC price in CNY is about 7554(yunbi price), USD/CNY  market rate should be about 6.98, based on these the calculated BTS/CNY price is above 0.0274.

so I can say ATM 0.0267 or 0.0264 is far from a correct market BTS price.

I feel the problem may come from polo price, as it need BTC/CNY or USD/CNY rate to convert the price to BTS/CNY price, but now maybe the real BTC price in CNY is not got, or a real USD/CNY market price is not got.

hope @abit and @rnglab and explain how the price is generated then we can discuss further.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on February 22, 2017, 01:44:48 am
unreasonable price:  rnglab, in.abit, witness.yao, datasecuritynode, abc123

(http://wx4.sinaimg.cn/large/5d9c0487gy1fcz02656n9j21ez0en0v2.jpg)
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: rnglab on February 23, 2017, 12:22:24 pm
Forgot to comment back okcoin and btcc from CNY feed sources after running some tests.

abit , data, xman, witness.still, abc123: try removing the chinese exchanges with  BTS:BTC market from your CNY feed sources.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on February 24, 2017, 06:29:25 am
I will remove my vote for the witness can't give reasonable price.
Code: [Select]
喂价 – BITCNY/BTS 汇率 – BITCNY/BTS 维持保证金比例 强制平仓比例上限 发布人 发布时间
0.02541539 0.02675335 175% 110% datasecuritynode 2分钟前
0.0267 0.02810526 175% 110% wackou 3分钟前
0.02549522 0.02683719 175% 110% in.abit 6分钟前
0.02686897 0.02828619 175% 110% rnglab 8分钟前
0.0268669 0.02828095 175% 110% verbaltech2 22分钟前
0.0267 0.02810526 175% 110% bhuz 29分钟前
0.02580561 0.0271639 175% 110% abc123 34分钟前
0.02553466 0.02687886 175% 110% xman 36分钟前
0.02686688 0.02828142 175% 110% fox 37分钟前
0.028 0.02947368 175% 110% spartako 39分钟前
0.02679259 0.02706052 175% 110% xn-delegate 49分钟前
0.028 0.02947368 175% 110% delegate.ihashfury 1小时前
0.026927 0.02719627 175% 110% delegate.baozi 2小时前
0.028 0.02947368 175% 110% delegate-1.lafona 2小时前
0.02633407 0.02659741 175% 110% jerryliu 3小时前
0.02609503 0.02635599 175% 110% elmato 3小时前
0.0260681 0.02632878 175% 110% xeldal 4小时前
0.02615227 0.02641379 175% 110% witness.yao 4小时前
0.02598393 0.02624377 175% 110% witness.still 4小时前
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on February 25, 2017, 02:00:09 am
we should develop an exchange service,
for example, we set up a service account: witness-exchange
every witness must accept the offer from account witness-exchange: sell BTS at your feed price*1.02, buy BTS at your feed price/1.02.
so witness-exchange can get the best ask/bid price from all witness's feed price, and serve all users.

you'll never know what's the reasonable price without trade.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: abit on February 25, 2017, 02:29:18 am
Current feeds:
Code: [Select]
Price Feed Data
SETTLEMENT PRICE – BITCNY/BTS CER – BITCNY/BTS MCR MSSR PUBLISHER PUBLISHED
0.02606831 0.02744082 175% 110% datasecuritynode 2 minutes ago
0.02749951 0.02894955 175% 110% rnglab 10 minutes ago
0.0274246 0.028868 175% 110% verbaltech2 14 minutes ago
0.02748412 0.02893086 175% 110% in.abit 17 minutes ago
0.02620613 0.0264682 175% 110% witness.still 20 minutes ago
0.02742568 0.02886931 175% 110% fox 29 minutes ago
0.0263 0.02768421 175% 110% spartako 30 minutes ago
0.02742568 0.02886931 175% 110% xman 33 minutes ago
0.0273662 0.02880653 175% 110% wackou 54 minutes ago
0.0273665 0.0288078 175% 110% abc123 58 minutes ago
0.0263 0.02768421 175% 110% delegate.ihashfury 2 hours ago
0.0274 0.02884211 175% 110% bhuz 2 hours ago
0.02716187 0.02743349 175% 110% xn-delegate 3 hours ago
0.02692587 0.02719513 175% 110% delegate.baozi 4 hours ago
0.0263 0.02768421 175% 110% delegate-1.lafona 6 hours ago
0.026058 0.02631858 175% 110% jerryliu 10 hours ago
0.02609503 0.02635599 175% 110% elmato 23 hours ago
0.0260681 0.02632878 175% 110% xeldal 23 hours ago
0.02615227 0.02641379 175% 110% witness.yao 23 hours ago

BTC38 BTS/CNY latest price 0.276
Poloniex BTS/BTC latest price 332satoshi, which is around 0.271CNY according to BTC prices on non-Chinese exchanges (we know that all BTC exchanges in China have suspended or are delaying BTC withdrawals, so prices there are not good to use).
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: 天籁 on February 25, 2017, 03:19:55 am
we should develop an exchange service,
for example, we set up a service account: witness-exchange
every witness must accept the offer from account witness-exchange: sell BTS at your feed price*1.02, buy BTS at your feed price/1.02.
so witness-exchange can get the best ask/bid price from all witness's feed price, and serve all users.

you'll never know what's the reasonable price without trade.

+100%
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: 天籁 on February 25, 2017, 03:41:13 am
we should develop an exchange service,
for example, we set up a service account: witness-exchange
every witness must accept the offer from account witness-exchange: sell BTS at your feed price*1.02, buy BTS at your feed price/1.02.
so witness-exchange can get the best ask/bid price from all witness's feed price, and serve all users.

you'll never know what's the reasonable price without trade.

I suggest the witness block reward is proportional to the  witness‘s sell/buy amount of BTS in the exchange service.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: abit on February 25, 2017, 03:09:31 pm
we should develop an exchange service,
for example, we set up a service account: witness-exchange
every witness must accept the offer from account witness-exchange: sell BTS at your feed price*1.02, buy BTS at your feed price/1.02.
so witness-exchange can get the best ask/bid price from all witness's feed price, and serve all users.

you'll never know what's the reasonable price without trade.

I suggest the witness block reward is proportional to the  witness‘s sell/buy amount of BTS in the exchange service.
Better try to get more candidates on board before try to get rid of current ones.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: gn1 on March 02, 2017, 12:42:16 am
See price feed from http://cryptofresh.com/a/CNY

How come the price feed for the bottom three guys are stale for few days or more?
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: mea123 on April 01, 2017, 01:35:09 pm

as an investor of BTS, Obits, ICOO, BTSR, BlockPay, Nexium, ETH etc..
this blows my mind and makes me very leery on top of it, what is going on.
I do not understand , nor do I like too learn to understand as an investor
what is going on with all the price of any of my investments..

I did not have a clue when I put my money up for an adventure
 that proof one better is an scientist to understand where one put his money into.

I guess its time to get this matter straiten before more and more potential investors get scared off.

oops what did I get into..looks like only pretty tech advanced ppl know whats going on, the rest is left in limbo at best.

I have a feeling that this can become a bigger issue, and it is already, otherwise we would not have to talk about

just my 2 cents
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: fav on April 01, 2017, 03:02:22 pm

I did not have a clue when I put my money up for an adventure


and that's a huge problem I see in almost every ICO. clueless people throwing money at something they do not understand.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: mea123 on April 01, 2017, 03:34:44 pm

I did not have a clue when I put my money up for an adventure


and that's a huge problem I see in almost every ICO. clueless people throwing money at something they do not understand.

fav, you are right, but somehow ppl with a clue dont know either what to do, they jump from one thing to an other, and leaving the important part behind..important is , finish what you started with, try to make it as perfect as possible and then move on, because have bake stuff does not taste good..
also it makes one unbelievable
BTW: without ppl not having a clue, this markets would not stand a chance to evolve, just a reminder, dont treat them like idiots..they through money at these projects, and lots of ppl have to eat because of it, never bite the hand that feed you
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on September 18, 2017, 01:31:00 pm
current bts price from BTC38 is 0.55CNY/BTS, and the lowest price is 0.53CNY/BTS recent several hours.
from poloniex/bittrex is 0.0000220 BTC/BTS, and BTC price is about 4085USD/BTC, USD is about 6.57CNY/USD, so the price is 0.59CNY/BTS
all other Chinese exchange have disable CNY deposit, I have mention this in witness group two days ago.
depend these, I have remove my vote for these witness: rnglab abc123 roelandp harvey-xts bhuz
here is the current price feeds:
Code: [Select]
喂价 – BITCNY/BTS 汇率 – BITCNY/BTS 维持保证金比例 强制平仓比例上限 发布人 发布时间
0.59860651 0.62853684 175% 110% mr.agsexplorer 21秒钟前
0.4809 0.601125 175% 110% rnglab 57秒钟前
0.53017 0.6627125 175% 110% wackou 4分钟前
0.5494 0.68675 175% 110% xman 6分钟前
0.53302199 0.56108018 175% 110% fox 6分钟前
0.54010081 0.56710585 175% 110% openledger-dc 8分钟前
0.52826418 0.66033293 175% 110% in.abit 11分钟前
0.5901444 0.59604585 175% 110% witness.still 11分钟前
0.526503 0.55421368 175% 110% verbaltech2 13分钟前
0.5442 0.57284211 175% 110% sahkan-bitshares 14分钟前
0.50390125 0.59283258 175% 110% abc123 16分钟前
0.58383805 0.70060566 175% 110% delegate.baozi 16分钟前
0.52991039 0.53520949 175% 110% crazybit 17分钟前
0.53092481 0.66365602 175% 110% delegate-1.lafona 20分钟前
0.52884481 0.66105601 175% 110% delegate.freedom 20分钟前
0.5300857 0.53538656 175% 110% xeldal 21分钟前
0.59935433 0.60534787 175% 110% delegate.ihashfury 22分钟前
0.59775185 0.60372937 175% 110% elmato 24分钟前
0.50392378 0.50896302 175% 110% roelandp 24分钟前
0.520659 0.54806211 175% 110% blckchnd 25分钟前
0.59655387 0.60251941 175% 110% witness.yao 26分钟前
0.514452 0.54152842 175% 110% delegate.btsnow 28分钟前
0.51790808 0.6473851 175% 110% harvey-xts 29分钟前
0.59307198 0.59900269 175% 110% xn-delegate 44分钟前
0.4052 0.42652632 175% 110% bhuz 48分钟前
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: sudo on September 18, 2017, 01:52:31 pm
current bts price from BTC38 is 0.55CNY/BTS, and the lowest price is 0.53CNY/BTS recent several hours.
from poloniex/bittrex is 0.0000220 BTC/BTS, and BTC price is about 4085USD/BTC, USD is about 6.57CNY/USD, so the price is 0.59CNY/BTS
all other Chinese exchange have disable CNY deposit, I have mention this in witness group two days ago.
depend these, I have remove my vote for these witness: rnglab abc123 roelandp harvey-xts bhuz
here is the current price feeds:
Code: [Select]
喂价 – BITCNY/BTS 汇率 – BITCNY/BTS 维持保证金比例 强制平仓比例上限 发布人 发布时间
0.59860651 0.62853684 175% 110% mr.agsexplorer 21秒钟前
0.4809 0.601125 175% 110% rnglab 57秒钟前
0.53017 0.6627125 175% 110% wackou 4分钟前
0.5494 0.68675 175% 110% xman 6分钟前
0.53302199 0.56108018 175% 110% fox 6分钟前
0.54010081 0.56710585 175% 110% openledger-dc 8分钟前
0.52826418 0.66033293 175% 110% in.abit 11分钟前
0.5901444 0.59604585 175% 110% witness.still 11分钟前
0.526503 0.55421368 175% 110% verbaltech2 13分钟前
0.5442 0.57284211 175% 110% sahkan-bitshares 14分钟前
0.50390125 0.59283258 175% 110% abc123 16分钟前
0.58383805 0.70060566 175% 110% delegate.baozi 16分钟前
0.52991039 0.53520949 175% 110% crazybit 17分钟前
0.53092481 0.66365602 175% 110% delegate-1.lafona 20分钟前
0.52884481 0.66105601 175% 110% delegate.freedom 20分钟前
0.5300857 0.53538656 175% 110% xeldal 21分钟前
0.59935433 0.60534787 175% 110% delegate.ihashfury 22分钟前
0.59775185 0.60372937 175% 110% elmato 24分钟前
0.50392378 0.50896302 175% 110% roelandp 24分钟前
0.520659 0.54806211 175% 110% blckchnd 25分钟前
0.59655387 0.60251941 175% 110% witness.yao 26分钟前
0.514452 0.54152842 175% 110% delegate.btsnow 28分钟前
0.51790808 0.6473851 175% 110% harvey-xts 29分钟前
0.59307198 0.59900269 175% 110% xn-delegate 44分钟前
0.4052 0.42652632 175% 110% bhuz 48分钟前

 +5% +5% +5% +5%
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: roelandp on September 18, 2017, 07:52:24 pm
Thank you @alt for pointing this out. I have upgraded my feedscript and will pledge to be more responsive in this matter. I have subscribed to notifications of the pricefeed script github now, so I will have more triggers. I must be honest that I was very busy with the launch of the 'SteemFest Hackathon' (https://steemfest.devpost.com) and (a bit) less alert on the Chinese volatile government decisions... Please accept my apologies!

current bts price from BTC38 is 0.55CNY/BTS, and the lowest price is 0.53CNY/BTS recent several hours.
from poloniex/bittrex is 0.0000220 BTC/BTS, and BTC price is about 4085USD/BTC, USD is about 6.57CNY/USD, so the price is 0.59CNY/BTS
all other Chinese exchange have disable CNY deposit, I have mention this in witness group two days ago.
depend these, I have remove my vote for these witness: rnglab abc123 roelandp harvey-xts bhuz
here is the current price feeds:
Code: [Select]
喂价 – BITCNY/BTS 汇率 – BITCNY/BTS 维持保证金比例 强制平仓比例上限 发布人 发布时间
0.59860651 0.62853684 175% 110% mr.agsexplorer 21秒钟前
0.4809 0.601125 175% 110% rnglab 57秒钟前
0.53017 0.6627125 175% 110% wackou 4分钟前
0.5494 0.68675 175% 110% xman 6分钟前
0.53302199 0.56108018 175% 110% fox 6分钟前
0.54010081 0.56710585 175% 110% openledger-dc 8分钟前
0.52826418 0.66033293 175% 110% in.abit 11分钟前
0.5901444 0.59604585 175% 110% witness.still 11分钟前
0.526503 0.55421368 175% 110% verbaltech2 13分钟前
0.5442 0.57284211 175% 110% sahkan-bitshares 14分钟前
0.50390125 0.59283258 175% 110% abc123 16分钟前
0.58383805 0.70060566 175% 110% delegate.baozi 16分钟前
0.52991039 0.53520949 175% 110% crazybit 17分钟前
0.53092481 0.66365602 175% 110% delegate-1.lafona 20分钟前
0.52884481 0.66105601 175% 110% delegate.freedom 20分钟前
0.5300857 0.53538656 175% 110% xeldal 21分钟前
0.59935433 0.60534787 175% 110% delegate.ihashfury 22分钟前
0.59775185 0.60372937 175% 110% elmato 24分钟前
0.50392378 0.50896302 175% 110% roelandp 24分钟前
0.520659 0.54806211 175% 110% blckchnd 25分钟前
0.59655387 0.60251941 175% 110% witness.yao 26分钟前
0.514452 0.54152842 175% 110% delegate.btsnow 28分钟前
0.51790808 0.6473851 175% 110% harvey-xts 29分钟前
0.59307198 0.59900269 175% 110% xn-delegate 44分钟前
0.4052 0.42652632 175% 110% bhuz 48分钟前
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on September 18, 2017, 10:45:23 pm

remove my vote for wackou
add roelandp back
Code: [Select]

喂价 – BITCNY/BTS 汇率 – BITCNY/BTS 维持保证金比例 强制平仓比例上限 发布人 发布时间
0.60169556 0.60771252 175% 110% elmato 42秒钟前
0.5995742 0.62955291 175% 110% mr.agsexplorer 57秒钟前
0.57023927 0.59875123 175% 110% openledger-dc 1分钟前
0.520319 0.54770421 175% 110% delegate.btsnow 1分钟前
0.4112 0.514 175% 110% wackou 4分钟前
0.56505956 0.70633182 175% 110% in.abit 4分钟前
0.5774741 0.72196197 175% 110% xman 7分钟前
0.57827193 0.68032435 175% 110% abc123 9分钟前
0.52592766 0.55360963 175% 110% bhuz 11分钟前
0.53325145 0.53858397 175% 110% xeldal 21分钟前
0.53160863 0.66451079 175% 110% delegate-1.lafona 22分钟前
0.6005375 0.720645 175% 110% delegate.baozi 24分钟前
0.52974457 0.66218072 175% 110% delegate.freedom 25分钟前
0.60645839 0.61252296 175% 110% witness.yao 30分钟前
0.60702599 0.61309625 175% 110% delegate.ihashfury 31分钟前
0.488 0.61 175% 110% rnglab 33分钟前
0.60502316 0.61107338 175% 110% witness.still 34分钟前
0.52737709 0.53265086 175% 110% crazybit 37分钟前
0.522844 0.55036211 175% 110% verbaltech2 39分钟前
0.5323 0.56031579 175% 110% sahkan-bitshares 43分钟前
0.5305 0.55842105 175% 110% blckchnd 49分钟前
0.58914041 0.59503183 175% 110% roelandp 51分钟前
0.52055171 0.5479551 175% 110% fox 1小时前
0.5997671 0.60576477 175% 110% xn-delegate 1小时前
0.51790808 0.6473851 175% 110% harvey-xts 10小时前
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: rnglab on September 18, 2017, 11:34:10 pm

remove my vote for wackou
add roelandp back
Code: [Select]

喂价 – BITCNY/BTS 汇率 – BITCNY/BTS 维持保证金比例 强制平仓比例上限 发布人 发布时间
0.60169556 0.60771252 175% 110% elmato 42秒钟前
0.5995742 0.62955291 175% 110% mr.agsexplorer 57秒钟前
0.57023927 0.59875123 175% 110% openledger-dc 1分钟前
0.520319 0.54770421 175% 110% delegate.btsnow 1分钟前
0.4112 0.514 175% 110% wackou 4分钟前
0.56505956 0.70633182 175% 110% in.abit 4分钟前
0.5774741 0.72196197 175% 110% xman 7分钟前
0.57827193 0.68032435 175% 110% abc123 9分钟前
0.52592766 0.55360963 175% 110% bhuz 11分钟前
0.53325145 0.53858397 175% 110% xeldal 21分钟前
0.53160863 0.66451079 175% 110% delegate-1.lafona 22分钟前
0.6005375 0.720645 175% 110% delegate.baozi 24分钟前
0.52974457 0.66218072 175% 110% delegate.freedom 25分钟前
0.60645839 0.61252296 175% 110% witness.yao 30分钟前
0.60702599 0.61309625 175% 110% delegate.ihashfury 31分钟前
0.488 0.61 175% 110% rnglab 33分钟前
0.60502316 0.61107338 175% 110% witness.still 34分钟前
0.52737709 0.53265086 175% 110% crazybit 37分钟前
0.522844 0.55036211 175% 110% verbaltech2 39分钟前
0.5323 0.56031579 175% 110% sahkan-bitshares 43分钟前
0.5305 0.55842105 175% 110% blckchnd 49分钟前
0.58914041 0.59503183 175% 110% roelandp 51分钟前
0.52055171 0.5479551 175% 110% fox 1小时前
0.5997671 0.60576477 175% 110% xn-delegate 1小时前
0.51790808 0.6473851 175% 110% harvey-xts 10小时前

Removed all BTS/CNY sources but btc38 as a temporary fix. I'll take a deeper look and probably move to btspice script later today.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: wackou on September 19, 2017, 09:33:45 am
remove my vote for wackou

fixed my feed, also thinking about how to make this more robust in the future when facing changing market conditions.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on September 25, 2017, 03:17:09 am
@ccedk please check your price feed.

Code: [Select]

喂价 – BITUSD/BTS 汇率 – BITUSD/BTS 维持保证金比例 强制平仓比例上限 发布人 发布时间
0.07742284 0.07819706 175% 110% mr.agsexplorer 13秒钟前
0.07412906 0.07803096 175% 110% fox 2分钟前
0.0680385 0.07144043 175% 110% openledger-dc 3分钟前
0.0746279 0.09328488 175% 110% wackou 3分钟前
0.0747726 0.078708 175% 110% sahkan-bitshares 3分钟前
0.07305264 0.09131737 175% 110% in.abit 6分钟前
0.0747603 0.07869505 175% 110% verbaltech2 10分钟前
0.0747902 0.07872653 175% 110% delegate.btsnow 14分钟前
0.07477299 0.07552073 175% 110% elmato 20分钟前
0.0747975 0.07873421 175% 110% blckchnd 21分钟前
0.07480131 0.07554933 175% 110% delegate.ihashfury 24分钟前
0.07443373 0.07517807 175% 110% crazybit 24分钟前
0.07455047 0.07529597 175% 110% rnglab 27分钟前
0.07524752 0.076 175% 110% xeldal 27分钟前
0.07443059 0.09303824 175% 110% harvey-xts 29分钟前
0.07390831 0.08868998 175% 110% delegate.baozi 33分钟前
0.07415871 0.07490029 175% 110% roelandp 34分钟前
0.07427646 0.07501922 175% 110% witness.yao 35分钟前
0.07363109 0.09203886 175% 110% delegate.freedom 35分钟前
0.07380074 0.09225111 175% 110% delegate-1.lafona 37分钟前
0.07507602 0.07582678 175% 110% xn-delegate 38分钟前
0.07358962 0.07746329 175% 110% bhuz 44分钟前
0.07307043 0.08596855 175% 110% abc123 1小时前
0.07308916 0.09136269 175% 110% xman 1小时前
0.07552631 0.07628157 175% 110% delegate-clayop 11小时前
0.07277013 0.07349783 175% 110% witness.still 14小时前
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: alt on September 30, 2017, 10:17:46 am
@ElMato
your have stop price feed for 4 days.
Code: [Select]
Recent activity (export to .csv)
OPERATION INFO
UPDATE PROPOSAL
elmato updated a proposed transaction
2 days ago
UPDATE PROPOSAL
elmato updated a proposed transaction
3 days ago
PUBLISH FEED
elmato published feed price of 0.09958572 bitCAD/BTS
4 days ago
PUBLISH FEED
elmato published feed price of 8.9680611 bitJPY/BTS
4 days ago
PUBLISH FEED
elmato published feed price of 0.08076134 bitUSD/BTS
4 days ago
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: lexamckenzie on October 02, 2017, 05:45:06 am
We must be careful then, as it is not safe.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Methodise on October 11, 2017, 09:16:19 pm
While we're keeping delegates in check, with an emphasis on price feeds (thanks to alt for remind us),

it would be nice to have price feeds data for more bitAssets than bitCNY. For example I'd like to know who to vote for and who not to vote for in terms of price feeds for:

http://cryptofresh.com/a/JPY
http://cryptofresh.com/a/BTC

Where can I get that data?
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: renkcub on October 17, 2017, 12:57:22 am
What are the witnesses currently using/doing for their BitBTC price feed? I'd like to suggest they use that "Code" towards a feed for BitETH Smartcoin and other top alts.

Anyone know?
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: Methodise on October 17, 2017, 07:19:56 pm
What are the witnesses currently using/doing for their BitBTC price feed? I'd like to suggest they use that "Code" towards a feed for BitETH Smartcoin and other top alts.

Anyone know?

Same page much.
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: fav on October 21, 2017, 09:24:51 am
@ElMato your feeds are inactive since two days
Title: Re: more professional price feed?
Post by: fav on November 04, 2017, 11:01:52 am
(https://i.imgur.com/dnDzGEc.png)

billbutler-witness did not feed a single valid price since voted in. only voted in thanks to @xeroc and @bitcrab proxy