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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: netcoord99 on January 04, 2017, 03:07:28 pm

Title: Bots
Post by: netcoord99 on January 04, 2017, 03:07:28 pm
To Open Ledger Trader Community:


I want feedback on how everyone feels about Bots in the trading arena?

Do you approve or disapprove?

Are they an advantage for trading or disadvantage and why?

I'll tell you upfront I see them driving the values of assets right to the bottom on every market.

If we can outlaw them, how do we go about it?

Please tell us how you feel!

Thanks

Mike A.
CC: Investors Int'l
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: kani on January 04, 2017, 03:28:27 pm
To Open Ledger Trader Community:


I want feedback on how everyone feels about Bots in the trading arena?

Do you approve or disapprove?

Approve.

Are they an advantage for trading or disadvantage and why?

Advantage.  Bots provide liquidity and volume. 

EDIT: Also, if you are a patient and observant trader, you can take advantage of the bots.  For example: I saw a BLOCKPAY buyer buy a bot sell order, wait for bot to place new sell, then buy again.  Repeated quite a few times.  There are many other examples...  Smart traders can use the fact that bots are predictable to gain advantage.

I'll tell you upfront I see them driving the values of assets right to the bottom on every market.

Disagree.  Most bot implementations will follow the market, not set it.  If markets are going down is because more people are selling -- is a trend in almost every crypto market.  (There are always people who need money and will sell, fewer buyers until big news).

If we can outlaw them, how do we go about it?

Not a good idea, IMHO.  Bots are very good for the Bitshares DEX (or BAE, if you prefer :) )

Please tell us how you feel!

Thanks

Mike A.
CC: Investors Int'l

I think bots are good.

Welcome

Kani
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: netcoord99 on January 04, 2017, 03:54:54 pm
All I see are bots competing and driving the price down to zero.

Thats what they did to compuceeds and they are doing it to others now.

So your philosophy is holding water my friend!

Title: Re: Bots
Post by: kani on January 04, 2017, 03:59:42 pm
Thats what they did to compuceeds and they are doing it to others now.

Terrible example!

COMPUCEEDS is down because you have hundreds (or thousands?) of users who have waited years for some kind of payout.  Also, you have the asset creator issuing billions to self and selling for BTS.

Bots will follow that market down.  Many, I'm sure, have lost money trading in this asset.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: kani on January 04, 2017, 04:18:14 pm
So your philosophy is holding water my friend!

Haha, yeah.

Your anger is misplaced my friend.  Bots aren't (usually) the cause of price drops, but they will follow it ALLLLLLL the way down.  Sorry if you've lost funds in volatile and suspicious assets such as this.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: yvv on January 04, 2017, 04:25:46 pm
Quote
If we can outlaw them, how do we go about it?

Are you crazy? Bots is one of few good things currently happening in bitshares. And how are you going to outlaw them? Restrict access to API? Good luck watching bitshares dying then.

Quote
Thats what they did to compuceeds and they are doing it to others now.

Compuseeds is down because it is a piece of shit, not because of bots. It is much better to outlaw such shitty assets.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: kani on January 04, 2017, 04:54:06 pm
Are you crazy? Bots is one of few good things currently happening in bitshares.

YES, EXACTLY THIS!

And how are you going to outlaw them? Restrict access to API? Good luck watching bitshares dying then.

Yep yep yep.  Bitshares needs MORE bots, not fewer (or none!).

Don't forget that bots are also feeding funds back into the reserve pool (yes, still small but growing).  I don't foresee any way Bitshares reserve pool becomes sustainable without bots.

So, LET'S KILL THIS IDEA RIGHT NOW!  Bots are GREAT for Bitshares and are here to stay.
 
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode on January 04, 2017, 07:16:49 pm
Are you crazy? Bots is one of few good things currently happening in bitshares.

YES, EXACTLY THIS!

And how are you going to outlaw them? Restrict access to API? Good luck watching bitshares dying then.

Yep yep yep.  Bitshares needs MORE bots, not fewer (or none!).

Don't forget that bots are also feeding funds back into the reserve pool (yes, still small but growing).  I don't foresee any way Bitshares reserve pool becomes sustainable without bots.

So, LET'S KILL THIS IDEA RIGHT NOW!  Bots are GREAT for Bitshares and are here to stay.

I was making this point about us needing more bot support in Bitshares if we want to see more liquidity yesterday in telegram.

I actually think this is something that should have priority over the GUI.

Bots bring liquidity

liquidity brings real users

users demand GUI

deliver better GUI

Title: Re: Bots
Post by: yvv on January 04, 2017, 07:33:33 pm

I was making this point about us needing more bot support in Bitshares if we want to see more liquidity yesterday in telegram.

I actually think this is something that should have priority over the GUI.

Bots bring liquidity

liquidity brings real users

users demand GUI

deliver better GUI

Great plan! We already have something to start:

https://btsbots.com

Trading bots with nice web GUI are waiting for you.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: netcoord99 on January 08, 2017, 04:14:18 am

I was making this point about us needing more bot support in Bitshares if we want to see more liquidity yesterday in telegram.

I actually think this is something that should have priority over the GUI.

Bots bring liquidity

liquidity brings real users

users demand GUI

deliver better GUI

Great plan! We already have something to start:

https://btsbots.com

Trading bots with nice web GUI are waiting for you.

Liquidity or not. When you drive the price down to the bottom then the asset becomes worthless and no one wants it!

That's what these bots are doing to assets!

You bot owners  just want to make money off the assets and don't care about the other asset holders!

So don't tell me this is a good thing. I aint buying it! Now they have cost me dearly.

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: Chronos on January 08, 2017, 04:28:52 am
Um, bots don't make assets worthless. If the price goes to 0, maybe it's a worthless asset anyway, bots or not.

Study an asset carefully before you buy it, to see what underlying value it may have.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: xeroc on January 08, 2017, 09:10:21 am

I was making this point about us needing more bot support in Bitshares if we want to see more liquidity yesterday in telegram.

I actually think this is something that should have priority over the GUI.

Bots bring liquidity

liquidity brings real users

users demand GUI

deliver better GUI

Great plan! We already have something to start:

https://btsbots.com

Trading bots with nice web GUI are waiting for you.

Liquidity or not. When you drive the price down to the bottom then the asset becomes worthless and no one wants it!

That's what these bots are doing to assets!

You bot owners  just want to make money off the assets and don't care about the other asset holders!

So don't tell me this is a good thing. I aint buying it! Now they have cost me dearly.

Thanks a lot!
There are bots on the buy side aswell
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: DestBest on January 08, 2017, 12:12:20 pm
Bots are our friends  +5%
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: mea123 on January 08, 2017, 01:08:46 pm
Um, bots don't make assets worthless. If the price goes to 0, maybe it's a worthless asset anyway, bots or not.

Study an asset carefully before you buy it, to see what underlying value it may have.

Study an asset carefully before you buy it, to see what underlying value it may have
good luck with this suggestion
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: mea123 on January 08, 2017, 01:17:22 pm
Bots are our friends  +5%

the trend is our friend, and as long as the underlying asset goes down, thats because the company is crab, the problem is not A BOT, Assets
already said BOT go usually both ways, otherwise we would not have a Forex Market or Stock Market anymore
are not going to Zero because of BOTS, are they

Oh an other Q: where can one see its a BOT selling/buying do BOTs have a special account name?
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: lil_jay890 on January 08, 2017, 02:21:54 pm

I was making this point about us needing more bot support in Bitshares if we want to see more liquidity yesterday in telegram.

I actually think this is something that should have priority over the GUI.

Bots bring liquidity

liquidity brings real users

users demand GUI

deliver better GUI

Great plan! We already have something to start:

https://btsbots.com

Trading bots with nice web GUI are waiting for you.

Liquidity or not. When you drive the price down to the bottom then the asset becomes worthless and no one wants it!

That's what these bots are doing to assets!

You bot owners  just want to make money off the assets and don't care about the other asset holders!

So don't tell me this is a good thing. I aint buying it! Now they have cost me dearly.

Thanks a lot!

The assets are declining not because of bots, they are declining because people are leaving the bitshares ecosystem and there are not enough new people to replace them.

Most of these assets distributed a ton of coins at extremely inflated valuations to not very many people.  Solcerts, muse, moonstone, compuceeds and others sucked in a good amount of investor cash. These investors believed the sales pitches by the coins creators. 

It would take a massive influx of new bts users  to support any liquid trading of these coins.  Markets go where there is liquidity. The liquid value of these tokens is much less than what the founders and pumpers pitched to the investors. They ico'd the coins at what they thought the value of the company would be in the future... They left out all the risk and growing pains that it would take to get there. Now the free market is discounting the shares based on those risks.

This is the problem with non regulated asset distribution.  Most of the investors are ignorant sheep who buy in to a sales pitch. At least with regulation, these shit companies wouldn't be able to come public. With the dex they can and it's easier than ever to scam someone and have them cut there losses and leave bts forever.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: yvv on January 08, 2017, 03:19:51 pm
Quote
The assets are declining not because of bots, they are declining because people are leaving the bitshares ecosystem and there are not enough new people to replace them.

Most of these assets distributed a ton of coins at extremely inflated valuations to not very many people.  Solcerts, muse, moonstone, compuceeds and others sucked in a good amount of investor cash. These investors believed the sales pitches by the coins creators. 

Those Solcerts, muse, moonstone, compuceeds and others are pure ponzi pyramids with zero sum. There is no business which brings profit underneath. Early adopters are paid by those who buy into pyramid later. When new fools stop coming, pyramid crashes, and this is inevitable, because the amount of fools on the Earth is huge, but limited.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: Chronos on January 08, 2017, 05:52:24 pm
Um, bots don't make assets worthless. If the price goes to 0, maybe it's a worthless asset anyway, bots or not.

Study an asset carefully before you buy it, to see what underlying value it may have.

Study an asset carefully before you buy it, to see what underlying value it may have
good luck with this suggestion
I guess that's why I don't own any UIAs. lol

You can't tell a bot from a human, except by its trading pattern, and sometimes the bot owner puts "bot" in the account name by choice.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: kani on January 10, 2017, 04:08:10 pm
Liquidity or not. When you drive the price down to the bottom then the asset becomes worthless and no one wants it!

That's what these bots are doing to assets!

You bot owners  just want to make money off the assets and don't care about the other asset holders!

So don't tell me this is a good thing. I aint buying it! Now they have cost me dearly.

Thanks a lot!

In a free market every trader is encouraged to seek a profitable strategy.  And yes, this absolutely includes bots.  Every major market in the world relies heavily on bots for trade volume and liquidity.  (Profit-seeking bots are most definitely not unique to Bitshares -- they are everywhere).

I reviewed your portfolio.  The problem is not bots -- the problem is with your investment choices.  The assets you hold lack fundamental value.

So, my friend, you may want to reevaluate your strategy.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: kani on January 10, 2017, 09:54:11 pm
[member=42191]netcoord99[/member]

Here's one example why COMPUCEEDS is down (and there are more like it):
https://cryptofresh.com/tx/b3a37439b8923a8edfe0c34509647a82148c3fbb
https://cryptofresh.com/tx/6fd5226e94116bf15ef4b9646f29e4da5d8634d3

TL;DR
'compumatrix1' (the asset creator) issued 5 billion COMPUCEEDS to 'compumatrix' who sold all 5B for 93,500 BTS one minute later (90K BTS then withdrawn to blocktrades 2 minutes later)



And let's talk about the BTCPLUS asset from the same 'compumatrix1'.

Asset description (bold emphasis mine):
"BTCPLUS is a bitcoin-backed UIA which can be bought using COMPUCEEDS and other UIAs and SmartCoins. BTCPLUS is a great way to get started with bitcoins without the need to invest into expensive mining rigs."

Are you to tell me that the supply of 6,065,100 BTCPLUS is backed by real Bitcoins???  No way.

See this transaction: 'compumatrix1' issue 5 million BTCPLUS to 'compumatrix'.
https://cryptofresh.com/tx/bf97b7d72133e692d579c89a169bf6707c6441f9

And you blame bots...  Sorry buddy, I think you've been scammed.
Title: Re: Bots
Post by: netcoord99 on January 16, 2017, 02:02:42 am
Yes, you are probably right about being scammed but regular people wouldn't have done to us what these bots are doing.

And I know Compumatrix has taken 11 years or so to build a business that works so its members are either foolhardy

or loyal and we'll either loose a few buck or become millionaires. Either way we are not worse that the people who visit casinos

and buy lottery tickets. Even participants who loose their shirts in long term market crashes could be called "the scammed"..

So if you don't bet the farm in the process it can all be considered recreation!