BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: CoinHoarder on March 16, 2017, 06:40:07 am

Title: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: CoinHoarder on March 16, 2017, 06:40:07 am
The original dream of BTS consisted of making a profitable DAC, thus increasing the value of the BTS token.

There is a stupid easy way to do so, and it has been under our nose the whole time. This will be a controversial proposal, but I have no doubt it will send Bitshares to the moon, and pull it out of the downward spiral it is on.

The proposal is simple. Delegates should get paid nothing... zilch, nada. It should be a volunteer-based, non-profit venture. With no inflation, each token holders' equity will increase proportionally with every token that is burned.

I posit that there are enough stakeholders with enough skin in the game to run delegate nodes for free. Stakeholders of which that are incentivezed enough due to their holdings of BTS tokens to not try anything stupid, and of course they could be voted out quickly if they did.

Only one small tweak would need to be made to the codebase (other than reducing delegate pay to zero, which I think can be done by comittee.) Eventually, all coins would get burned in fees, leaving no BTS tokens in existence. A stock split every so often would be needed to issue tokens proportionally to all stakeholders so this never happens.

A profitable DAC = An appreciating BTS token = Happy investors = More investors entering the ecosystem = Trickle down effect to liquidity in BTS' DEX

Ez game
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: freedom on March 16, 2017, 06:47:06 am
 +5%
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: fav on March 16, 2017, 10:26:05 am
let's pack it up boys, he bolded "no doubt" - killer feature.

on a serious note,  bitshares will be very expensive should it ever scale, and you need professionals for that. can't expect shareholders to do this stuff.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: Thom on March 16, 2017, 03:21:18 pm
I think this is a bad idea.  It is speculation, far from a "no doubt" proposal. A "DAC" has certain expenses, such as infrastructure, "witnesses" for example. Name a not-for-profit company in the real world that is not subsidized and is also self sustaining AND GROWING.

Relying on volunteers is in fact a subsidy. By relying on unpaid volunteers is not a wise way to operate a company, a DAC, and have stability, growth and sustainability.

I am all for volunteerism. BitShares wouldn't exist without volunteers, but for essential operations that maintain the integrity and security of the network in a decentralized manor it would be foolish to remove the incentive for good quality witnesses to do their job.

Where were you @CoinHoader when the discussion about witness fees took place? Are you aware witness pay was recently doubled in an effort to improve feeds and witness involvement?
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: CoinHoarder on March 16, 2017, 03:51:16 pm
.
on a serious note,  bitshares will be very expensive should it ever scale, and you need professionals for that. can't expect shareholders to do this stuff.

It will never scale as-is. Bitshares is becoming less and less relevant in the crypto space with every day that passes. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole at this point.

Anyways, what I proposed could be done by committee, so it could be reversed if that time did come.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: Stan on March 16, 2017, 03:56:21 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/9570931d326fa2ebefbb91c2ba1d2af4.png)
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: CoinHoarder on March 16, 2017, 04:12:29 pm
I think this is a bad idea.  It is speculation, far from a "no doubt" proposal.
It is simple economics, far from speculation... supply and demand, man.

Relying on volunteers is in fact a subsidy. By relying on unpaid volunteers is not a wise way to operate a company, a DAC, and have stability, growth and sustainability.
A true DAC would not have paid employees, autonomous is part of the acronym for a reason.

I am all for volunteerism. BitShares wouldn't exist without volunteers, but for essential operations that maintain the integrity and security of the network in a decentralized manor it would be foolish to remove the incentive for good quality witnesses to do their job.

A "DAC" has certain expenses, such as infrastructure, "witnesses" for example. Name a not-for-profit company in the real world that is not subsidized and is also self sustaining AND GROWING.
Delegate expenses are unnecessary at this point in Bitshares' life. It can stand on its own two feet. What business would not cut unnecessary expenses?

I don't even think you could technically call non-paid delegates volunteers, as certainly they have enough skin in the game to make it worthwhile due to the appreciating value of the token that would result from their running a delegate node.

Now that there is very little development and client updates, running a delegate node requires little to no effort.

Where were you @CoinHoader when the discussion about witness fees took place? Are you aware witness pay was recently doubled in an effort to improve feeds and witness involvement?
I have given up on Bitshares, as have most of the crypto speculators. I own no equity, and would not recommend investing in it. I just thought I'd pop in and suggest this idea is all. Do with it what you will.

Doubling delegate pay seems like a horrible idea though. A failing business that is bleeding cash should be cutting expenses, not increasing them, and it is even more so idiotic to be doubling them.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: CoinHoarder on March 16, 2017, 04:14:42 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/9570931d326fa2ebefbb91c2ba1d2af4.png)
Your incessant cheerleading has brought Bitshares so far, please continue...
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: vikram on March 16, 2017, 05:25:10 pm
I've been wondering about the possibility of a noninflationary BitShares clone--maybe snapshotting only "active" BTS accounts--and with some features stripped out but leaving the DEX (plus maybe some parameter tweaks) and seeing how it might compete.

Not directly comparable, but I think @tonyk had a crowdfunding-based similar idea at one point: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21558.0.html

Soledger is mostly busy with a separate project for now but it's something I'd consider exploring later down the line if there was community interest.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: blahblah7up on March 16, 2017, 05:51:34 pm
This would be incredible!
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: tbone on March 16, 2017, 06:22:30 pm
I've been wondering about the possibility of a noninflationary BitShares clone--maybe snapshotting only "active" BTS accounts--and with some features stripped out but leaving the DEX (plus maybe some parameter tweaks) and seeing how it might compete.

Not directly comparable, but I think @tonyk had a crowdfunding-based similar idea at one point: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21558.0.html

Soledger is mostly busy with a separate project for now but it's something I'd consider exploring later down the line if there was community interest.

No offense, but it's not a good idea.  For starters, I doubt it would get much (if any) traction.  But more importantly,  if it siphons off even a small amount of liquidity from the Bitshares DEX, it would be hurting Bitshares without any realistic hope of succeeding itself.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: mf-tzo on March 16, 2017, 10:01:20 pm
I totally think we should do this..Let's make bts great again with a fixed supply that can only reduce by burning bts v3..
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on March 16, 2017, 10:15:29 pm
I totally think we should do this..Let's make bts great again with a fixed supply that can only reduce by burning bts v3..

I say we just wait and see what Stan has in store first...sounds like something's going on behind the scenes that will make this debate moot.

...or at least, that's my dream.  :P
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: ebit on March 17, 2017, 01:25:42 pm
@CoinHoarder   please consider OBITS ICOO .They burned every month.
 please consider  dash,  dash's stakeholders  why didn't  trade.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: CLains on March 18, 2017, 04:30:36 am
dash, eth, etc. etc. are doing fine - pretty sure we're the only community this stingy lol
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: Permie on March 18, 2017, 10:41:31 pm
BitShares is doing fine without your plan

Projects like bts take a long time for everything to fall into place.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: mr-whitekey on March 19, 2017, 03:54:29 am
The original dream of BTS consisted of making a profitable DAC, thus increasing the value of the BTS token.

There is a stupid easy way to do so, and it has been under our nose the whole time. This will be a controversial proposal, but I have no doubt it will send Bitshares to the moon, and pull it out of the downward spiral it is on.

The proposal is simple. Delegates should get paid nothing... zilch, nada. It should be a volunteer-based, non-profit venture. With no inflation, each token holders' equity will increase proportionally with every token that is burned.

I posit that there are enough stakeholders with enough skin in the game to run delegate nodes for free. Stakeholders of which that are incentivezed enough due to their holdings of BTS tokens to not try anything stupid, and of course they could be voted out quickly if they did.

Only one small tweak would need to be made to the codebase (other than reducing delegate pay to zero, which I think can be done by comittee.) Eventually, all coins would get burned in fees, leaving no BTS tokens in existence. A stock split every so often would be needed to issue tokens proportionally to all stakeholders so this never happens.

A profitable DAC = An appreciating BTS token = Happy investors = More investors entering the ecosystem = Trickle down effect to liquidity in BTS' DEX

Ez game

If it were as easy as this then any and every coin could just keep burning fees and send there "investors" to the moon. Reality is the market cap must grow for investors to sustainably reap returns. No matter how you slice it. For the market cap to grow we need more people entering into the system than leaving, we need activity.

We have our niche, we have a working model. We don't have a DEX that let's you trade BTC without a middle man. We have a "Bitshares DEX", not a "cryptocurrency DEX". Get this community surrounded around making Bitshares into a true cryptocurrency decentralized exchange then our work will begin. Then and only then can we market our exchange and say to the not bitshares folk "Look here it is better than your current option, it fits everything you like in bitcoin except it is an exchange."
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: mr-whitekey on March 19, 2017, 04:16:13 am
The other aspect that we could credibly capitalize on is the idea of the "privacy exchange". Right now, the idea of privacy, this seems to be really making the markets go crazy. As is we would simply need to pair a "privacy coin" to our DEX and from that point it should be very difficult to trace. Stealth should accomplish this, but we might make it a point to move the DEX to greater and greater privacy.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: renkcub on March 29, 2017, 01:47:04 am
remind me how much inflation bts has? what do delegates get paid? links?
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: Thom on March 29, 2017, 04:19:29 am
remind me how much inflation bts has? what do delegates get paid? links?

Witnesses and workers are paid out of the reserve pool which in which 20% of all transaction fees are added. I don't believe either contribute to inflation.
Title: Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
Post by: xeroc on March 29, 2017, 08:19:14 am
BitShares has no inflation. All shares that will every exist are issued today.
The only difference to other projects is that the shareholders collectively own what is reserved in a pool (amounts to >1B BTS) and the shareholders are up to decide how to spend those funds (though workers).