BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: trustpay on September 03, 2017, 02:03:34 pm
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Bitshares is great. I feel safe when trading on a blockchain exchange. The problem is that if I want to trade BTC, I should deposit my BTC to Openledger and get back OPEN.BTC
What will happen when Openledger (or other Gateway) go away with my BTC? Then their token will be useless.
I don't want to risk my money with a company. Is there any blockchain can act as a gateway? It's great if there is a decentralized gatewate that I can trust.
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You can have your BTCs in bitBTC, instead of OPEN.BTC, and if Openledger disappears, you can still change them to bitUSD or BTS.
Either way this is an obvious problem, and the only satisfactory solution would be to have a FIAT P2P exchange.
I proposed to talk to Bisq, a P2P exchange https://bisq.io/ for this, but it does not seem that the people of bitshares really liked the idea. :(
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,24703
Another solution would be to implement that functionality in bitshares, but I do not know the legal implications, perhaps an external solution would be better.
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I don't want to risk my money with a company.
Then stop using services which are provided by companies.
Is there any blockchain can act as a gateway? It's great if there is a decentralized gatewate that I can trust.
There are no miracles in this world.
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I don't want to risk my money with a company.
Then stop using services which are provided by companies.
Is there any blockchain can act as a gateway? It's great if there is a decentralized gatewate that I can trust.
There are no miracles in this world.
Bisq is a miracle that makes it possible to do both: dispense with the services of third parties, and make the trade from wallet to wallet. To change altcoins is much better Bitshares, since it allows the use of smartcoins reducing the cost of commerce and increasing the speed of transaction. But bitshares does not offer P2P service to acquire BTS, reason why Bisq could complement it
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Bisq is a miracle that makes it possible to do both: dispense with the services of third parties, and make the trade from wallet to wallet. To change altcoins is much better Bitshares, since it allows the use of smartcoins reducing the cost of commerce and increasing the speed of transaction. But bitshares does not offer P2P service to acquire BTS, reason why Bisq could complement it
bisq is nothing more but a simple, decentralized order book. find a dev and implement escrow, and we got everything needed for this on bitshares.
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bisq is nothing more but a simple, decentralized order book. find a dev and implement escrow, and we got everything needed for this on bitshares.
The great Achilles' heel of the cryptocoins ecosystem has always been the exchange centralized by FIAT. If no one except Bisq (or Coinffeine, but no longer exists, I think) has made a successful P2P, it means that the implications are not so simple at all. The advantages are obvious, the similarity of concept with the operation of the cryptocoins is total (the elimination of third parties)
But, if it is so simple, why has it not been launched, in Bitshares?
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P2p exchange is great, but it has its disadvantage: you need to find a peer to make exchange, which can take time. Gateway service like openledger fills this gap. To make a deposit/withdrawal, you don't need to look for a peer, you deposit BTC to their wallet and few seconds later funds are in your bitshares account, but you need to trust their IOU.
Implementing a trustless p2p exchange in bitshares DEX, however, would be absolutely great. A company like openledger could become a mega-peer and make the market.
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If no one except Bisq (or Coinffeine, but no longer exists, I think) has made a successful P2P, it means that the implications are not so simple at all.
If volume at Bitsq is close to 0, I guess this means that their implementation of P2P has some problems.
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Bisq has a small volume, but he works bravely. Implementations are not as simple as they seem, and should build trust. Despite being essential in the blockchain ecosystem, it is unfortunate that the main actors have not tried anything.
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Thanks for your all opinions. I think I should accept the current situation and wait for a new update.
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I don't want to risk my money with a company.
Then stop using services which are provided by companies.
Is there any blockchain can act as a gateway? It's great if there is a decentralized gatewate that I can trust.
There are no miracles in this world.
Bitshares can make a sort of gateway... the exchange rate between bitBTC and openBTC under perfect market conditions should reflect trust in openledger's gateway. Usually bitBTC is a bit higher no?
I think openledger is a trustworthy company... they also get a nice little revenue from bitshares and would face years of unpleasantry and criminal investigations if they ever tried to run away with the money. I just doubt Ronnie and the gang would do that. lol. They seem hardworking enough already.
I also wanted to link this here
You don't need nobody's approval to be a bitshares gateway. Just issue your token. You can optionally set up your wallet where you can list yourself. Check out how rudex did: market.rudex.org (asset bitRUBLE).
It is important to note that openledger and any gateway is not safe in the same way as bitshares or bitshares-derived tokens.
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I think openledger is a trustworthy company... they also get a nice little revenue from bitshares and would face years of unpleasantry and criminal investigations if they ever tried to run away with the money. I just doubt Ronnie and the gang would do that. lol. They seem hardworking enough already.
It is important to note that openledger and any gateway is not safe in the same way as bitshares or bitshares-derived tokens.
I'm sure that company works well, and does a great job, but an IOU is not as secure as a bitshares-derived tokens. If we were convinced otherwise, there would be no Bitshares smartcoins. For the same reason an exchange P2P would also be more reliable, and the logical solution for the blockchain era, the era of the end of the middleman.
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trustless gateways are being attempted as well: https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-core/issues/363
if successful, can be implemented for more
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Yes, Atomic Swaps would allow to transfer BTC to Bitshares DEX bitBTC without third party UIAs. It would be great progress, but there is still the problem on the FIAT side. My proposal is to use gateways but with P2P exchanges, not with third parties.
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Yes, Atomic Swaps would allow to transfer BTC to Bitshares DEX bitBTC without third party UIAs. It would be great progress, but there is still the problem on the FIAT side. My proposal is to use gateways but with P2P exchanges, not with third parties.
You need a third party for fiat exchange anyway. How are you going to pay fiat to your peer? Send cash in an envelope by mail? Then the mail service will be your third party.
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Yes, Atomic Swaps would allow to transfer BTC to Bitshares DEX bitBTC without third party UIAs. It would be great progress, but there is still the problem on the FIAT side. My proposal is to use gateways but with P2P exchanges, not with third parties.
see lower in github discussion, to where there can be new backed assets
1. witnesses handle multisig account backing it
2. paper linked there can allow rotation of witnesses by changing the key of each witness needed to create secret
Then it would be simple enforced 1:1 backed asset enforced via decentralized witnesses. Doesn't rely on people shorting bitBTC vs BTS which is much riskier than shorting fiat vs BTS.
fiat part is always hard as it requires KYC often, offering trustless fiat stable crypto is already more than anyone else offers. closest alternative is p2p solutions like bisq/bitsquare that use escrows. anyway, I don't think focusing on real fiat onramp to crypto is important given other methods.
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The absolute dependence of centralized suppliers for the acquisition of currencies is the biggest problem of the crypto ecosystem. From time to time news like these shout that the king is naked. What percentage of bts trade depends on the next Chinese ban?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/bitcoin-crashes-massive-volume-china-plans-shut-local-exchanges
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The absolute dependence of centralized suppliers for the acquisition of currencies is the biggest problem of the crypto ecosystem. From time to time news like these shout that the king is naked. What percentage of bts trade depends on the next Chinese ban?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/bitcoin-crashes-massive-volume-china-plans-shut-local-exchanges
could add a link to bitsquare/bisq for fiat based transfers maybe then.
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@erizo
The solution you crave is called sidechains. It's a concept thats been around a few years where you move BTC on to another chain.
Theres been alot of money and work directed at this approach and it may work one day.
Read all about it here: http://www.drivechain.info/
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Yes I know. sidechains is useful for transfers between blockchains, but not between fiat and blockchain, at least until the banks have our money in blockchains.