BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: alt on November 20, 2018, 08:06:39 pm
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are you still think you need to improve the stupid bsip42(market manipulation)?
come out to say what's your plan
and those voters/proxy who support bsip42, please come out to explain us what happend.
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The plan is just to watch and do nothing.
According to Xeroc :
"Guys, your understanding of a black swan is way off implementation"
"Before a global settlement, a short position has debt and collateral supporting the debt. During global settlement, you lose just enough of your collateral to support your debt and you lose the debt. Ever BTS in collateral that comes additional to the 100% will be give back to you.
The debt and supporting collateral will be migrated to the the issuer account.
With BSIP18, the global settlement fund in the issuer account can autonatically revive the asset in case the price feed goes back up so that the available collateral reaches MCR
Also, users can bid on the collateral and debt and thus obtain back their own position by providing the excess collateral.
In the meantime, long positions (those with bitusd, bitcny) are unaffected and trading goeabon as usual.
Borrowing and margin calls are disabled until the asset is revived"
I asked him 1-2 months back if he is going to take full responsability for keeping the BSIP42 activ which will lead to a global settlement since he was and still is the key proxy who could instantly close BSIP42.
A clear lack of real trader experience unable to foresight markets and effects of major changes
Some Witnesses even claim there would be no diffrence in current situation with or without BSIP42
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The plan is just to watch and do nothing.
According to Xeroc :
"Guys, your understanding of a black swan is way off implementation"
"Before a global settlement, a short position has debt and collateral supporting the debt. During global settlement, you lose just enough of your collateral to support your debt and you lose the debt. Ever BTS in collateral that comes additional to the 100% will be give back to you.
The debt and supporting collateral will be migrated to the the issuer account.
With BSIP18, the global settlement fund in the issuer account can autonatically revive the asset in case the price feed goes back up so that the available collateral reaches MCR
Also, users can bid on the collateral and debt and thus obtain back their own position by providing the excess collateral.
In the meantime, long positions (those with bitusd, bitcny) are unaffected and trading goeabon as usual.
Borrowing and margin calls are disabled until the asset is revived"
I asked him 1-2 months back if he is going to take full responsability for keeping the BSIP42 activ which will lead to a global settlement since he was and still is the key proxy who could instantly close BSIP42.
A clear lack of real trader experience unable to foresight markets and effects of major changes
fuck xeroc, the most stupid proxy ever.
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according to bsip42, bitCNY is now very cheap than CNY. (price in DEX is 0.363CNY/BTS much higer than CEX which is 0.353)
you should decrease the feed price, why no action at all?
you know nothing about trade, and you even known nothing about bsip42, just stupid like an idiot.
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You should notice Alt that I (verbaltech2) and Alex (clockwork) aren't feeding either BitCNY or BitUSD.
Alex has been almost as angry as you lately about the bsip42 manipulation. I have been very vocal from the start about what I don't like about it.
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Glad to hear that.
I have only support one witness is you after the bsip42, now I can add clockwork.
those blind witness should be kick out.
and those blind proxy like xeroc shouldn't get support too,
I have no idea why did so many share holders give the vote power to a stupid blind person like him?
good thing is I have saw that @stan have already cancel his support to xeroc.
You should notice Alt that I (verbaltech2) and Alex (clockwork) aren't feeding either BitCNY or BitUSD.
Alex has been almost as angry as you lately about the bsip42 manipulation. I have been very vocal from the start about what I don't like about it.
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Seeing as I'm not one to hide, I would like to point out that mine and Thom's reasons for not feeding BSIP42 prices on USD and CNY are entirely different.
I don't have much of an issue with BSIP42 in principle. In fact I think it's a good idea in order to tighten the peg.
I only stopped feeding USD and CNY because I thought the BSIP42 adjusted feed I was running needed more work and I hadn't been able to figure it out yet.
The reason I am upset with others is because the majority of the feed scripts disregard the market completely and thus on a sudden bear move ( like we had last couple of days) are slow to respond, leading to a) margins piling up and b) losing the peg anyways.
That said, unlike Thom, I am not against the premise of BSIP42
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you still have my support because at least you know it can't work and you didn't act like other blind sheep.
I will withdraw my vote if you work out a unreasonable feed price.
Seeing as I'm not one to hide, I would like to point out that mine and Thom's reasons for not feeding BSIP42 prices on USD and CNY are entirely different.
I don't have much of an issue with BSIP42 in principle. In fact I think it's a good idea in order to tighten the peg.
I only stopped feeding USD and CNY because I thought the BSIP42 adjusted feed I was running needed more work and I hadn't been able to figure it out yet.
The reason I am upset with others is because the majority of the feed scripts disregard the market completely and thus on a sudden bear move ( like we had last couple of days) are slow to respond, leading to a) margins piling up and b) losing the peg anyways.
That said, unlike Thom, I am not against the premise of BSIP42
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according to bsip42, bitCNY is now very cheap than CNY. (price in DEX is 0.363CNY/BTS much higer than CEX which is 0.353)
you should decrease the feed price, why no action at all?
you know nothing about trade, and you even known nothing about bsip42, just stupid like an idiot.
bitCNY now has a less than 1% discount.
if there's no BSIP42, what happened in last 2 days will make bitCNY a more than 5% premium. we have experienced that in the past.
you can argue, but please stop shouting like a crazy dog.
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sorry if you not feel good.
but you have already screwed up.
according to bsip42, bitCNY is now very cheap than CNY. (price in DEX is 0.363CNY/BTS much higer than CEX which is 0.353)
you should decrease the feed price, why no action at all?
you know nothing about trade, and you even known nothing about bsip42, just stupid like an idiot.
bitCNY now has a less than 1% discount.
if there's no BSIP42, what happened in last 2 days will make bitCNY a more than 5% premium. we have experienced that in the past.
you can argue, but please stop shouting like a crazy dog.
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according to bsip42, bitCNY is now very cheap than CNY. (price in DEX is 0.363CNY/BTS much higer than CEX which is 0.353)
you should decrease the feed price, why no action at all?
you know nothing about trade, and you even known nothing about bsip42, just stupid like an idiot.
bitCNY now has a less than 1% discount.
if there's no BSIP42, what happened in last 2 days will make bitCNY a more than 5% premium. we have experienced that in the past.
you can argue, but please stop shouting like a crazy dog.
You are aware that the possibility the price keeps moving down is bigger than it will go up from here?
With your stupid BSIP42 the few buy support people added to avoid a global settlement will be eaten from other trader leaving their collateral before a global settlement instead of the margins itself to lower the global settlement price on bitcny.
Right now you are just watching and doing nothing else than praying which is no solution at all.
Your OMO funds are being margin called already.You activly lost millions of BTS from the comitee accounts and i bet spring fund is also not doing well expecially on a global settlement event.
When the price dropped from 0.62 to 0.44 bitcny the CR was in tact.
You have been warned mutiple times also from me that once there will be a bigger down trend you will cause an unatural big margin wall which will lead to a global settlement because people will stop eating margins and will close their own margin.
If you look closely you can see a big group of investors myself included who sold all their margin and not being activ because of BSIP42.
Would these people still have trust and the margin sold as it should be there wouldn't such a big margin wall exist which would make that other investors would instantly take their part instead of waiting because the margin wall seems unbreakable currently.
You said to me i'm yelling like a crazy dog.It was me predicting that the OMO fund will be margin called where you said its impossible.
It was me who said you will create a hughe margin wall in a bigger downtrend which will lead to a quick global settlement which you denied claiming there is enough liquidity for it.
And still you call other people crazy dog.
Your BSIP42 is a total failure causing only high risk of a global settlement in a downtrend with the possibility to lose all savings from a lot of people who didn't give you the authority to play with their investment like monopoly money.Its shocking to me how you treat other peoples savings for which majority had to work hard.
Even some bitshares admins lost faith in bitshares because of bsip42 and closed instantly all their margins.I think this says everything.
A network which has no trust of its community will never succeed
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48 hours past, still no action.
we should remeber those person who still vote for support BSIP42
according to bsip42, bitCNY is now very cheap than CNY. (price in DEX is 0.363CNY/BTS much higer than CEX which is 0.353)
you should decrease the feed price, why no action at all?
you know nothing about trade, and you even known nothing about bsip42, just stupid like an idiot.
bitCNY now has a less than 1% discount.
if there's no BSIP42, what happened in last 2 days will make bitCNY a more than 5% premium. we have experienced that in the past.
you can argue, but please stop shouting like a crazy dog.
You are aware that the possibility the price keeps moving down is bigger than it will go up from here?
With your stupid BSIP42 the few buy support people added to avoid a global settlement will be eaten from other trader leaving their collateral before a global settlement instead of the margins itself to lower the global settlement price on bitcny.
Right now you are just watching and doing nothing else than praying which is no solution at all.
Your OMO funds are being margin called already.You activly lost millions of BTS from the comitee accounts and i bet spring fund is also not doing well expecially on a global settlement event.
When the price dropped from 0.62 to 0.44 bitcny the CR was in tact.
You have been warned mutiple times also from me that once there will be a bigger down trend you will cause an unatural big margin wall which will lead to a global settlement because people will stop eating margins and will close their own margin.
If you look closely you can see a big group of investors myself included who sold all their margin and not being activ because of BSIP42.
Would these people still have trust and the margin sold as it should be there wouldn't such a big margin wall exist which would make that other investors would instantly take their part instead of waiting because the margin wall seems unbreakable currently.
You said to me i'm yelling like a crazy dog.It was me predicting that the OMO fund will be margin called where you said its impossible.
It was me who said you will create a hughe margin wall in a bigger downtrend which will lead to a quick global settlement which you denied claiming there is enough liquidity for it.
And still you call other people crazy dog.
Your BSIP42 is a total failure causing only high risk of a global settlement in a downtrend with the possibility to lose all savings from a lot of people who didn't give you the authority to play with their investment like monopoly money.Its shocking to me how you treat other peoples savings for which majority had to work hard.
Even some bitshares admins lost faith in bitshares because of bsip42 and closed instantly all their margins.I think this says everything.
A network which has no trust of its community will never succeed
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the feed price for CNY is higher than 16% now, no margin call order will be eatern.
so what's the plan if the price keep drop?
or just sleep like a blind sheep continue?
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this is just we want, please go through BSIP42 to understand the logic.
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this is just we want, please go through BSIP42 to understand the logic.
There is no logic if the price will continue to drop.
You just don't allow the global settlement price to be lowered by eating margin calls.
Since its already so close for bitUSD to get margin called the only logic would be now to eat the margin wall without a big premium from real market price to lower quickly the global settlement price.
Instead of that you manipulated the feed price so much that nearly no margin is being eaten to lower the global settlement price.
Are you going to take responsability for that possible global settlement for not allowing the global settlement price to go lower ?
It needs to move to 3 cents since the bear market is still intact
Also can you estimate how many tens of millions of BTS have been sold by people closing their margin because they have a lack of TRUST in BSIP42 ?
What happened that people also took their big buy support away ?
I guess seeing the big unbreakable margin walls your BSIP42 created these traders took away their buy orders knowing the price will fall on such a high sell pressure in a bear market.
I said it already multiple times but will tell it one more time BSIP42 doesn't work on a bigger downtrend POINT.
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this is just we want, please go through BSIP42 to understand the logic.
There is no logic if the price will continue to drop.
You just don't allow the global settlement price to be lowered by eating margin calls.
Since its already so close for bitUSD to get margin called the only logic would be know to eat the margin wall without a big premium from real market price to lower quickly the global settlement price.
Instead of that you manipulated the feed price so much that nearly no margin is being eaten to lower the global settlement price.
Are you going to take responsability for that global settlement for not allowing the global settlement price to go lower ?
It needs to move to under 3 cents since the bear market is still intact
there's several big issues need to be resolved step by step in Bitshares.
one is that the smartcoin does not peg accurately enough, BSIP42 is to solve this problem, surely a dynamic MCR based solution is better but unfortunately some bugs are there and need several months to fix, that's why BSIP42 is implemented first, and everyone can see BSIP42 really enhance the peg.
the other is the global settling, many are not satisfied with the current global settling rule and ask for update. some new suggestion is being moved forward https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27273.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27273.0)
yes, BSIP42 sometimes make the feed price 10% more higher than the market price, but then how? it enhance the peg, it make bitCNY and bitUSD real stablecoin.
margin called orders are there without being eaten? no big problem, even then we still can see the global settment price for bitUSD drop more than 3% in the past 2 days.
I believe if there is no BSIP42, things will be even worse, maybe the feed price already drop below black swan price. and all the things will be restarted.
after the global settle rule be updated, there will be no need to worry black swan, be patient.
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this is just we want, please go through BSIP42 to understand the logic.
There is no logic if the price will continue to drop.
You just don't allow the global settlement price to be lowered by eating margin calls.
Since its already so close for bitUSD to get margin called the only logic would be know to eat the margin wall without a big premium from real market price to lower quickly the global settlement price.
Instead of that you manipulated the feed price so much that nearly no margin is being eaten to lower the global settlement price.
Are you going to take responsability for that global settlement for not allowing the global settlement price to go lower ?
It needs to move to under 3 cents since the bear market is still intact
there's several big issues need to be resolved step by step in Bitshares.
one is that the smartcoin does not peg accurately enough, BSIP42 is to solve this problem, surely a dynamic MCR based solution is better but unfortunately some bugs are there and need several months to fix, that's why BSIP42 is implemented first, and everyone can see BSIP42 really enhance the peg.
the other is the global settling, many are not satisfied with the current global settling rule and ask for update. some new suggestion is being moved forward https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27273.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27273.0)
yes, BSIP42 sometimes make the feed price 10% more higher than the market price, but then how? it enhance the peg, it make bitCNY and bitUSD real stablecoin.
margin called orders are there without being eaten? no big problem, even then we still can see the global settment price for bitUSD drop more than 3% in the past 2 days.
I believe if there is no BSIP42, things will be even worse, maybe the feed price already drop below black swan price. and all the things will be restarted.
after the global settle rule be updated, there will be no need to worry black swan, be patient.
That is not true at all.
First point your priority currently is to hold the peg of bitassets which you can't list on any decent exchanges anyway instead of fixing the high risk of a global settlement and saving the part of community which is holding collaterals which you claimed in the past to be worth most protected.
A global settlement would be a disaster of trust and a big loss of a big part of the community even the platform itself would survive without any doubt.Bitshares already lost many supporters looking now only from the side what is going to happen since they clearly don't wanna take the risk to get their collateral taken via global settlemen which BSIP42 is providing.
Its also not true claiming the CR would be now lower without BSIP42 than with it since wouldn't BSIP42 exist first of all people wouldn't be able to take extra collateral based on the manipulated feedprice so there would be no diffrence at all AND the margin wall would be eaten on its way down to current level.Maybe the BTS price would be lower which i doubt but the CR would be way higher than it currently is and the margin wall not appearing unbreakable.
For me the highest priority is currently to save all collaterals by not allowing a global settlement instead of holding a worthless pegg.
If you want to have the manipulated feedprice than at least increase the MSSR a bit so the margin gets eaten.
An increase of 3% of global settlement price at current level is a joke.Its just a diffrence of $0.00162 in the real market.
You belive investors feel now saver with this kind of change in global settlement price ?
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Don't waste your breath Thul3. It's clear the priority of bitcrab et al is to depress and keep the price low so he can accumulate more and sell it high later. He has learned market manipulation from his Keynesian mentors, the mainstream banksters and centralized economic controllers.
His priority is not the long term integrity of BitShares or the disruptive vision BitShares was founded upon for the cause of freedom, nor the concern for collateral which as you say he is putting at risk. When so much profit can be taken earlier (not now, but when BTC and other market movers start to rise again) that is his focus now.
Holding a peg in this bear market? Shouldn't be the primary concern. Safety of ALL investors and preservation of collateral should be. THAT is what will increase trust in the few who are steering this ship.
Bitcrab and the Chinese have truly helped bitshares, I have zero doubt that. But why? That is the trillion dollar question his actions answer. Manipulation is a psychological game of wits, and you must establish trust first for it to be effective.
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BSIP42 is a total disaster. It was always going to be. I have always been strongly against it.
feed prices should be the real honest traded prices taken from external exchanges.
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48 hours past, still no action.
we should remeber those person who still vote for support BSIP42
it's already 5 days later, where are all those witness and committee and delegate?
Does Bitshare already become somebody's private project?
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yes, BSIP42 sometimes make the feed price 10% more higher than the market price, but then how? it enhance the peg, it make bitCNY and bitUSD real stablecoin.
You know how you can define best that current BSIP42 is a failure in regards of releasing pressure ?
Comparing BitCNY with BitUSD.
BitCNY a high liquid market had nearly the same CR like BitUSD which has clearly a lack of liquidity.
If BSIP42 worked so great how come that a liquid market like BitCNY had nearly the same result like a non liquid market ?
The answer at both bitassets margins call's haven't been filled at all.
And wouldn't there be feed manipulation on bitusd the lowest CR of BitUSD of a non liquid market would be higher than the CR of BitCNY which is a way higher liquid market.
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still no any react.
the price is only 0.315 CNY/BTS, but the feed price is 0.410.
there are plenty of buy orders had been eatern by normal sell order instead of buy the margin call order.
48 hours past, still no action.
we should remeber those person who still vote for support BSIP42
it's already 5 days later, where are all those witness and committee and delegate?
Does Bitshare already become somebody's private project?