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Main => Stakeholder Proposals => Topic started by: Thul3 on April 03, 2019, 11:35:37 am

Title: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on April 03, 2019, 11:35:37 am
Am applying as Proxy to the community in the hope to activly bring bitshares forward to a top blockchain project.
Will use that thread to update about my votings and also to listen to other opinions or suggestions.

Proxy :  B-DEX
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: sschiessl on April 03, 2019, 11:47:27 am
Looking forward to discussions on proposals and other voting related things!
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: matle85 on April 03, 2019, 12:06:08 pm
Good stuff Thul - would be interesting to see your vote/approach on the current worker list as a starting point :)
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Crypto Kong on April 03, 2019, 12:10:49 pm
Good stuff

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: alt on April 03, 2019, 12:30:04 pm
you have my support
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Digital Lucifer on April 03, 2019, 06:59:22 pm
Am applying as Proxy to the community in the hope to activly bring bitshares forward to a top blockchain project.
Will use that thread to update about my votings and also to listen to other opinions or suggestions.

Proxy :  B-DEX

Positive positive :) Support 100% this refreshment to the voting
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: btspp on April 04, 2019, 02:08:20 am
support!
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: xeroc on April 04, 2019, 09:46:03 am
Welcome!
Glad to see more opinions in the list of proxies!
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: BTSMoon on May 13, 2019, 06:59:28 am
Request unvote these witnesses! These witnesses have not yet changed the MCR to 1.6, and they do not follow community consensus!

delegate-1.lafona
blckchnd
openledger-dc
verbaltech2

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28399.0
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: George_Bitspark on May 17, 2019, 07:56:33 am
Good stuff Thul, looking forward to seeing your points of view as a proxy.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on May 17, 2019, 04:47:42 pm
Voted back bitcrab as committee and gdex as witness since ZB votes are no more giving an advantage.

Keep Blckchnd unvoted till he updates at least MCR of bitcny and MSSR of bitusd.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on May 18, 2019, 06:03:46 pm
Removed committee vote for godfather of bts for beos reckless voting.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: btspp on June 08, 2019, 01:48:32 pm
Hi Thul3

We hope you can support the work proposal of BitShares Mobile.
We hope to enrich the BitShares Mobile feature and give it more exposure.
If you have good suggestions or questions, please let us know
Telegram:https://t.me/btsplusplus (https://t.me/btsplusplus)

Related introductions and video presentations

 2018-2019 Work Report (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=27486.msg330856#msg330856g)
2019-2020 Work Plan (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28460.0)
BitShares Mobile - Video「YouTube」 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9njZA_3l19E)
BitShares Mobile - Video「优酷」 (https://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDIxODIzMzIzMg==.html?spm=a2h0k.11417342.soresults.dtitle)

Source Code&Download
GitHub (https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-mobile-app)
Download (http://btspp.io)

Please vote for us

Proposal: 201906-bitshares-mobile-app (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28460.0)
ID: 1.14.198
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: vianull on July 04, 2019, 10:51:36 am
Hi Thul3,
We are bts.ai team in beijing,  running bts.ai explorer and wss://api.bts.ai access point currently.
Now we are working on upgrading this explorer with more functions and charts.
Can you please vote for our witness account?
Thanks.

Our witness account : witness.hiblockchain
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on July 04, 2019, 11:30:51 am
I appreciate your work.I hope you excluded coinegg's weight from price feed so it won't harm bitshares in a downmovement.

Voted back in

Regards


Edit: Just saw on another thread you already updated it.Great thank you
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: vianull on July 04, 2019, 05:20:42 pm
 Coinegg's weight has been removed.  Thanks for reminding , and we will pay more attention on price feeding.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: BTSMoon on July 15, 2019, 06:25:48 am
Please Unvote 9 Witnesses that have No Feed Global Protection for BitUSD.

liondani, verbaltech2, delegate-1.lafona, xn-delegate, abc123, xman, fox, roelandp, in.abit

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28662.msg332430;topicseen#msg332430
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on July 16, 2019, 12:22:23 pm
I downvoted early today bitspark as committee when reading the past days his reckless opinion.
We had just an argument that he would let the GS on USD happen and that he thinks we shouldn't defend the bad debt holders as it's their own fault.

I got mad because the GS Protection was voted in to give borrowers a safer feeling of taking debt and also because i don't want to lose a part of the community again.

It seems they give a fuck about community members getting rekt should a GS happen.
They talk random shit but not how to grow the community.

I will open a new Thread about it soon so people can watch themself what kind of argumention they have.

I really feel upset because they give crap about other peoples money and their ignorance and ideology argumentation boils your blood
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Ammar Yousef (ioBanker) on July 21, 2019, 09:27:16 pm
I wish you the best luck, such a dynamic authority and control would always be the most important positive player within the bitshares network.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: biophil on July 23, 2019, 08:48:22 pm
I downvoted early today bitspark as committee when reading the past days his reckless opinion.
We had just an argument that he would let the GS on USD happen and that he thinks we shouldn't defend the bad debt holders as it's their own fault.

I got mad because the GS Protection was voted in to give borrowers a safer feeling of taking debt and also because i don't want to lose a part of the community again.

Understanding and implementing undercollateralization protection in a way that does not involve GS will be one of the main focuses of my university research project. (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=28542.0) Obviously there are a lot of difficult tradeoffs to consider (liquidity versus accurate pegging versus strict collateral requirements) and my goal with the project is to take a comprehensive view of the problem and develop a framework that lets us optimize the tradeoffs. Would you consider supporting with your vote for worker 1.14.204?
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on September 10, 2019, 10:36:52 pm
Upvoted today  Bitshares UI worker
 
I upvoted Bitshares UI worker for 7 days so there will be enough funds to release the new updated UI.
The updated UI is urgently needed since it also contains the fix for market fee claim error and more important the cookie session for the refferal system which is a major point for any refferal offer.
 

Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: xeroc on September 11, 2019, 12:36:57 pm
Upvoted today  Bitshares UI worker
 
I upvoted Bitshares UI worker for 7 days so there will be enough funds to release the new updated UI.
The updated UI is urgently needed since it also contains the fix for market fee claim error and more important the cookie session for the refferal system which is a major point for any refferal offer.
+5%
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on September 29, 2019, 04:05:52 pm
I unvoted the refund400k worker as it got to strong putting important and urgent workers inactive.
Decentralized got already majority of its funding so it would be a waste of closing that funding to limit the effectiveness on the conference

Dexbot arbitrage feature between DEX - CEX .Urgently waiting for that feature to start promotion to get major asset liquidity on DEX


Also to prevent the closing of exotic infrastructur end of october should there be no funding


BSIP76 voted active again
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Bangzi on October 31, 2019, 01:41:23 am
Can you approve Committee-account Proposal: 1.10.50903 to Create a new Worker "BAIP-Threshold"? Is one of the criteria to pass a BAIP(BitAssets Improvement Proposal)

https://github.com/bitshares/baips/blob/master/baip-0001.md
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on December 12, 2019, 10:59:20 am
In 14 days from today i will start removing my votes from inactive committee members .
Committee should be activly discussing to be productive instead of being a dead place.




Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: sschiessl on December 18, 2019, 08:24:45 am
clockwork has been voted out as a witness, while he is one of the most active ones and there are other candidates that do not provide a public node, or otherwise engage publicly in the community. Committee the same, holding the last spot at the moment.

Is that action something you are willing to comment on? Since you and alt both voted him down the same time, I assume there is a reason.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: xeroc on December 18, 2019, 10:28:14 am
In 2 weeks time, don't be surprised when Alex turns around and does other stuff.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: clockwork on December 19, 2019, 06:09:52 am
chill everyone.

I believe it was just a mistake/misunderstanding. Votes have been reinstated.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: sschiessl on December 19, 2019, 11:04:26 am
chill everyone.

I believe it was just a mistake/misunderstanding. Votes have been reinstated.

Apparently several have been voted out by voting changes done by you and baozi. I noticed votes are still in for bit.professor, who has explicitly stepped down from committee and even announced leaving the BTS community for good several weeks ago. If you are willing to, please comment on your reasoning for current committee votes.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on April 05, 2020, 09:12:19 pm
Removed my support from Abit as committee.
He changed the last months dramaticly to no work ethics.

He has no problems with bribes,inside deals,support scam workers (which he admited on tg) and voting not based on how supportive someone is for bitshares but how quite a witness is on scams like the scam exchange.


Here his talk about deciding why a witness should be voted in or out

Quote
dima was spreading hates in the groups, while lafona kept silence. so actually I'd rather vote for lafona

No mention who is better wittness or bigger supporter to bitshares.


Turning more and more into a disgusting politcal war.

Seems he haven't learned anything losing tens of millions of BTS by following some people blindly with no ethics to rules and consensus.


I agree he is one of bitshares most active member but his work ethics changed so dramaticly the last couple of months that i can't support it anymore till it changes to normal again where he accepts that bitshares is being run as a decentralized community and not by a few people who do inside deals and talking in secret thinking noone sees it and working mainly for their own profit.


On a side note as some people threatened me already in the past to remove support if i won't change my mind.
I'm a proxy and committee to do best for bitshares and bitshares only.
No Beos no cn-vote no others.

I support EVERYONE when i see a clear benefit for bitshares.
I have no problem losing my proxy or committee for adressing these clear issues which gets month by month bigger on bitshares and the western community massivly demanding a fork because of all these bad actions like inside deals,voting inactive committee members,voting for non supportive witnesses and kicking big supporters out.Ugly politics mainly done by some chinese and beos,no participation of community in important queries (just inside deals in closed groups) etc....

I always fought for the best of bitshares which is a decentralized project but its turning more and more into a centralized shit show where a few started to dictate everything in secret groups and beos supporting every crap and scam in hope to get a favour vote back by these people for funding their beos crap to bitshares.


That's not the bitshares i support and that's also not what cn-vote said it will support.

Remember  ?CN-Vote was against dilution,against inside deals,against ineffective workers and saying clearly being a witness/committee is a privilage for bitshares supporters ONLY



I always vote what is best for bitshares no matter what opinion on other topics someone has or what group/nation someone belongs.


Quote
so vote buyng is fine?

Quote
if the outcome is positive, it's fine for me.


Discussion between another Dev and Abit about paying 2 times for the same audit on the core prelude worker
$75/h to abit and later for the same work 3% of all funding to bbf

Of course no vote buying with reserve pool ?

There is way way more where he is justifying bad actions.These two are just from today
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: abit on April 07, 2020, 01:18:44 pm
Removed my support from Abit as committee.
He changed the last months dramaticly to no work ethics.

He has no problems with bribes,inside deals,support scam workers (which he admited on tg) and voting not based on how supportive someone is for bitshares but how quite a witness is on scams like the scam exchange.


Here his talk about deciding why a witness should be voted in or out

Quote
dima was spreading hates in the groups, while lafona kept silence. so actually I'd rather vote for lafona

Quote
so vote buyng is fine?

Quote
if the outcome is positive, it's fine for me.


Discussion between another Dev and Abit about paying 2 times for the same audit on the core prelude worker
$75/h to abit and later for the same work 3% of all funding to bbf

Of course no vote buying with reserve pool ?

There is way way more where he is justifying bad actions.These two are just from today

This is exactly how Dima tricked me into a conversation to make me look like a bad guy. That's one of the reasons that I don't like to vote for him.

You often copy paste selectively without full context, which is a shame on you.

I haven't changed. I'm all for pushing forward and making progresses. You had supported this, thank you for that. Admittedly some progresses require compromises. I mainly look at the final results aka the overall outcomes which I mentioned in the conversation. Focus more on the big picture, but not the peanuts.

Rome is not built in one day, we have to go forward step by step, little by little. The spirit of the new core worker is just in this direction, work on the easily achieved things first aka the low-hanging fruits, but not blindly rush into some imaginations of fancy features which require much efforts but don't know who will use or benefit from.

Wish you the best.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: sschiessl on April 07, 2020, 01:27:46 pm
Discussion between another Dev and Abit about paying 2 times for the same audit on the core prelude worker
$75/h to abit and later for the same work 3% of all funding to bbf

You may call both "audit", but the actual tasks are fundamentally different. Happy to elaborate if interested.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: binggo on April 07, 2020, 02:41:15 pm
Quote
Focus more on the big picture, but not the peanuts。
Rome is not built in one day, we have to go forward step by step, little by little. The spirit of the new core worker is just in this direction, work on the easily achieved things first aka the low-hanging fruits, but not blindly rush into some imaginations of fancy features which require much efforts but don't know who will use or benefit from.

I don't think you or your group focus more on the big picture, most of you just fcous on the peanuts!
If have a big picture, that's good, show it clearly to all of the community.

There is no ROME, some bsips in this new core worker didn't build anything, just in order to satisfy selffish desire of small groups, can't solve anything, waste time and money, didn't have any long-term planning, this is the reality,

Some of committees(especially CN committees) didn't have a clear understanding and recognition, just want to let we charge fees from here, charge fees from there……charge fees, then said to the community, oh, god, we charge fees, we will have a good futher, we will solve any problem, i don't want to fuck this thought, that's very pathetic and fool.

Let's act like a adult in the market and economy in the futher, don't act like a baby in the past six years.

So i suggest the holder of BTS not to support most of CN committees, lost the mind is very very dangerous.

食之无味,弃之可惜!

弃疗! 弃疗!
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on April 09, 2020, 04:18:08 pm
Removed my support from Abit as committee.
He changed the last months dramaticly to no work ethics.

He has no problems with bribes,inside deals,support scam workers (which he admited on tg) and voting not based on how supportive someone is for bitshares but how quite a witness is on scams like the scam exchange.


Here his talk about deciding why a witness should be voted in or out

Quote
dima was spreading hates in the groups, while lafona kept silence. so actually I'd rather vote for lafona

Quote
so vote buyng is fine?

Quote
if the outcome is positive, it's fine for me.


Discussion between another Dev and Abit about paying 2 times for the same audit on the core prelude worker
$75/h to abit and later for the same work 3% of all funding to bbf

Of course no vote buying with reserve pool ?

There is way way more where he is justifying bad actions.These two are just from today

This is exactly how Dima tricked me into a conversation to make me look like a bad guy. That's one of the reasons that I don't like to vote for him.

You often copy paste selectively without full context, which is a shame on you.

I haven't changed. I'm all for pushing forward and making progresses. You had supported this, thank you for that. Admittedly some progresses require compromises. I mainly look at the final results aka the overall outcomes which I mentioned in the conversation. Focus more on the big picture, but not the peanuts.

Rome is not built in one day, we have to go forward step by step, little by little. The spirit of the new core worker is just in this direction, work on the easily achieved things first aka the low-hanging fruits, but not blindly rush into some imaginations of fancy features which require much efforts but don't know who will use or benefit from.

Wish you the best.

Like Bingo asked tell us about the big picture because currently i see only garbage and nothing more.
Getting the old structure and abuse back we had before
Bitcrab/Jademont/ZB/Abit with the help of BEOS.

Would i remove my support from last 2 western neutral committee all what is left are committee from cn-vote and beos.
Very dangerous as they have clearly big diffrences in responsiblity and ethics.

Witnesses like Dima or clockwork were voted out because CN-Vote supports witnesses from BEOS who provide NOTHING to bitshares in exchange to get their witnesses voted up.

What bigger picture do we have here when killing our supporters which provide progress and infra like ES Node in exchange for nothing?

Same goes for committee and the inside deal between cn-vote and beos to vote 3 of their members in exchange to vote members from cn-vote in.
You asking me hours after i removed my vote from jonathan  to keep some neutral members in committee (at the same day you (cn-vote/bitcrab) voted them in as committee showed me you were aware of the inside deal if not even took activly part in it.

Haven't seen Liondani or Evangelist participating in committee since you voted them in.
Chinese committee members are only in their own closed group not even in the committee wechat group which have been created and are only voting when bitcrab creates a proposal.

So what is the bigger picture here ?That bitcrab doesn't need support of committee anymore to change something but just ask chinese committee members from cn-vote to approve something without any discussion outside of cn-vote closed group ?


A small chinese group clearly misusing the votes from ZB for their own agenda.
What is the bigger picture here ?


You talk about compromise ?
Which compromise did the chinese group do when dictating 100% of core roadmap without consultation with rest of community ?
The core prelude work is crap.
Irrelevant to bitshares at this stage.

So what is the bigger picture other than dividing the community forcing the rest to accept only your own vision which bitcrab proofed in the past already multiple times to be wrong.

What is the bigger picture to support scam exchanges at all cost where the community was clearly divided and you knowing that volumes are total fake ?

Are you sure chinese are able to make anymore good decissions ?

Am asking because since old leadership from cn-vote got kicked out when raising their concern about the wrong route cn-vote is going i saw not a single action from cn-vote which would uphold the standards of old leadership.

All i see are inside deals,scam worker support and forcing the whole community to accept the view of a small chinese group.

You say you have majority of votes.
I disagree you buy votes.You are not better than BEOS.BEOS is supporting cn-vote ONLY because they hope to get a favour vote back from cn-vote to fund the integration of BEOS via bitshares reserve pool.

So you don't have the majority of community.You are vote buying and nothing more.
Also the diffrence between active worker and not is just 30 million votes even you bought votes from BEOS.


But i'm happy to hear the bigger picture which i'm unable to see.
I guess i can't see that a $5/day profit from fees is going to bring bitshares forward.

People lost trust in gateways and you focus on taking fees on the last 2 signifant gateways we have.


What i see is a dangerous situation where committee is now in full control of cn-vote and witnesses being replaced based on inside deals for selfish profit only.You are destroying bitshares infrastructur by doing this.

After that i see support of scam workers and most disgusting a cowork with some people from cn-vote and beos to get their integration funded for the benefit of BEOS owners ONLY....


But hey i don't see the bigger picture.........waiting for you to explain us the bigger picture


Btw how come cn-vote and ZB added simultanously their votes for BEOS witnesses when making an inside deal ?

ZB being driven by a high ranked chinese member aka bitcrab ?


Also i would like to ask since bitshares is a trustles decentralized project why cn-vote is supporting centralization of bitshares giving power to one person ?


A single person holding on bitshares

Domain
Brand
Legal
Core
Infra
New Forum
Escrow
Move Institut

makes bitshares decentralized  ?
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: bitcrab on April 10, 2020, 08:06:47 am
will give an answer on several aspects in this weekend.

1.Chinese committee members and cn-vote
Yes, Chinese members constitute the majority of committee.

not all Chinese committee members represent cn-vote, actually only kang8 and zhouxiaobao-2010 are proxies of cn-vote, abit, jademont, btsai and me are neutral.

Yes, Chinese committee members communicate more between each other than with others because of sharing the same culture, language, timezone, etc. but this does not mean we decide things by ourselves without discussing with other members.

operations like claiming bitCNY fee and buying back BTS are daily operations, in my view it's important to do this in high efficiency, with informing all the committee members.

I don't know what deal cn-vote has made with BEOS, but I don't think that's a big problem, in my view BEOS is even healthier than some whales in voting.


2. core prelude worker

yes, sometime before China community terminate the old core worker. because:

1. in the bear market core team always sell BTS to press price.
2. China community do not feel what the core team is building is what they really need.

but even with the help of ZB, now the refund400K get only 5.8 billion voting power, too high? don't you think it's reasonable for a worker to get higher voting power to get fund?

in recent past, I feel it's necessary to reorganize the core team work and suggest to the community, DL did a lot coordination work on this, he talked to each team member, he discussed with all big voters, China community also has discussed on this, finally the consensus is the core prelude worker, and a subsequent main worker which is still in plan, with P2P Lending as the main new feature.

the core prelude worker is for 4.0 launch with some added charging features. which is greatly needed at this moment.

for the force settlement fee, suppose we set bitCNY force settlement fee as 1%, if one day 1M BTS settled, system will get 10K BTS as fee, I don't know why you always talk about $5/day.

maybe you dislike this worker, up to you, but this worker really come out after long time discussion, it get great support in China community.

3.picture of Bitshares.

what I describe below is a picture of Bitshares in my brain, it is not drafted by myself, but by many people, it is not definitely the future of BTS, it need to go across voting and implementation to realization.

redefinition of smartcoin:

the core flaw of the initial smartcoin design is that it always lead to death spiral, which make debt position owners always pay a lot for the peg of smartcoin, and if always make down trend of BTS price.

BSIP76 and BAIP2 redefined smartcoin to an updated derivative of BTS, the updated bitCNY is a derivative that not linked to the market price of BTS, but to a function of market price of BTS, exactly speaking, bitCNY ~ max(0.22, MA24 of BTS, real time price of BTS).

the updated bitCNY do not focus on the real time pegging to CNY, however,it peg to CNY sometime and peg off other time, and the pre condition is that BTS price go and stably keep above 0.22CNY, this change removed the death spiral but make bitCNY a financial tool for risk hedge,arbitrage and speculation.

DEX income supported token
the core prelude worker add several new features of charging, the accumulated fee will be used to buy back BTS to support BTS price.

trading contest/order mining is another important feature of current BTS, market making is one important feature of exchange, trading contest is to encourage market making, and it will finally lead to higher system income.

P2P Lending

it will be the most important feature in the subsequent main core worker, it will enable the leverage trading between any assets.


 






Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: binggo on April 10, 2020, 09:17:39 am
Quote
for the force settlement fee, suppose we set bitCNY force settlement fee as 1%, if one day 1M BTS settled, system will get 10K BTS as fee, I don't know why you always talk about $5/day.

suppose we set bitCNY force settlement fee as 10% and offset as -10%, if one day 1M BTS settled, how substantial revenue!!!

Quote
maybe you dislike this worker, up to you, but this worker really come out after long time discussion, it get great support in China community.

OK, OK, this worker really really rellay come out after long time discussion by some small groups! Very fair!
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: Thul3 on June 06, 2020, 04:32:50 pm
Am adding my vote for committee liondani and evengelist.
Even i don't really support them as both are not activly participating i will add my vote to lower the committee voting power of other members so it won't be possible anymore that only 4 committee members approve a committee proposal even the other 7committee members are against it.
It's a try to secure committee funds and parameters against misuse.

Increasing the numbers of needed approvel from 4 to 5/6 out of 11 is just fair.
Title: Re: Proxy:B-DEX
Post by: binggo on July 25, 2020, 07:35:54 am
Am adding my vote for committee liondani and evengelist.
Even i don't really support them as both are not activly participating i will add my vote to lower the committee voting power of other members so it won't be possible anymore that only 4 committee members approve a committee proposal even the other 7committee members are against it.
It's a try to secure committee funds and parameters against misuse.

Increasing the numbers of needed approvel from 4 to 5/6 out of 11 is just fair.

Am adding my vote for committee liondani and evengelist too, as the committee shouldn't be controlled by the people coming from the same group(cn-vote).