BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: santaclause102 on February 14, 2014, 02:17:50 pm
-
Hi,
I was at the Inside Bitcoin Conference in Berlin the last two days. There was nothing groundbreaking new but some sitenotes might be of interest to you all. Here we go...
Mastercoin guys were all over the place wearing white Mastercoin heads.
One Bit Angels guy (I look up his name if anyone is interested) is planing on doing a fund for DACs building on top of Ethereum.
Same BitAngels guy and Paul Snow (also associated with Ethereum) promoted the Texas Bitcoin conference this summer. They will do a Hackathon to attrackt dev. talents as part of the conference. Might be interesing for you....
Talked to Paul Snow a bit. He kept on calling it PayShares (meant Bitshares)... We came to the conclusion that POS has all advantages over POW except that you dont know for sure exclude the possiblity that someone or a group of people buys a hughe amount of the POS stake at the begiinning to a degree dangerous for security. Because POW gets deluted over time you would have to keep this up also when the coin is very popular / expensive. An argument for POW was that Fees didnt matter that much to the success of the service. We disagreed a bit on the importance of these arguments.
More institutional investors seem to plan to come to the space but main focus seems to be on supporting a way to buy bitcoin like you buy company shares.
Three NXT guys where there with NXT T-Shirts.
Mastercoin and Ethereum seem to popular with the Bitcoin "elite" (those with money and connections). Give those guys some free PTS/AGS ;)
Wirelesss was a mess. Organizer guy said it had to do with the audience (wallets, mining?). He didnt know... MAybe something to look at twice for the Beyonf Bitcoin Conf. you are planing.
General focus was on bitcoin comanies, bitcon itself. More general potential of DACs was not the narative...
Forgot the rest. Ask if you wanna know anything in particular... :)
-
The guy from bitangels was almost certainly David Johnston
-
Bitshares definitely needs more promotion and advertisement to attract more followers, besides making a good product.
-
The guy from bitangels was almost certainly David Johnston
It was Jeremy Kandah. More Bitangel investors, including David J., might be involved too.
-
Bitshares definitely needs more promotion and advertisement to attract more followers, besides making a good product.
True, the industry is failing to reach out properly. Maybe my facility of changing USD to PTS/NRS directly will help the situation.
-
Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).
-
Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).
I think you hit the nail on the head here. These guys are all friends / insiders in the bitcoin community where as we are seen as outsiders. They get a lot of buzz because of personal connections that we do not have and building these connections is a full time job.
I have actually talked with the BitAngles, presented our plans to their organization, met with David, etc. There seems to be some kind of frequency mismatch that keeps them from getting on board with what we are doing.
There is also an undercurrent of Charles Hoskinson who is VERY good at doing these kinds of deals, networking, and getting people on his side. When he was with Invictus his skills in this regard were most impressive. As you can tell from various interviews Charles is actively attempting to outcompete Invictus with a new product and thus working all of his connections behind the scenes to side with Ethereum and downplay Invictus.
From my conversations with people wearing Ethereum t-shirts in Miami it appears many are supporting the project due to friendships that are entirely independent of technical merits. They don't understand it, its limits, or its strength but they have bought into the reality distortion field that I use to joke with Charles about. The reality distortion field is strong with this one.
Despite the hype, these projects lack technical merit and are economically flawed. In the free market you can only survive so long on hype before market forces kick in.
-
I also met with the Hive wallet guys (the funds behind Ethereum) in an effort to partner with them to produce the BitShares wallet. They ended up going with Ethereum.
We were also actively talking with the KriptoKit developers prior to launch with an interest toward building a web wallet for BitShares... they seem to be going some other way.
So from where I sit it isn't a lack of reaching out to these players, they all seem to have their own momentum and biases that seem to get in the way of working with us.
Fortunately we have players in our field that are stepping to take the opportunities these other guys passed on.
-
An alternative to attending Bitcoin conferences, where we might be seen as also-rans and wannabes, might be attending the conferences of target industries, like import/export, economic development, etc.
I had a bit more to offer by way of justification for this, but I got carried away. The rest of my post is here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2932.0 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2932.0).
-
I also met with the Hive wallet guys (the funds behind Ethereum) in an effort to partner with them to produce the BitShares wallet. They ended up going with Ethereum.
We were also actively talking with the KriptoKit developers prior to launch with an interest toward building a web wallet for BitShares... they seem to be going some other way.
So from where I sit it isn't a lack of reaching out to these players, they all seem to have their own momentum and biases that seem to get in the way of working with us.
Fortunately we have players in our field that are stepping to take the opportunities these other guys passed on.
KryptoKit is owned by one of the founders of Ethereum if i'm not mistaken.
Anyway, i'm not worried with the marketing at the moment. I think Bitshares did a good job at Miami, we have a solid website, good branding, nice friendly community and a good funding model. You guys have to keep in mind that people go with the hype. Right now Ethereum is getting a lot of exposure so everyone is jumping that ship.
I strongly believe Bitshares will be the rising Dark Horse of crypto, i used to work in business development and i've seen this happen to many times.
Hype does not equal to guaranteed success! Fundamentals are key and we have a solid foundation being built here.
-
I think a few articles on well established (financial/ tech) websites and magazines will be so much more powerful then any connection in the Bitcoin community. Although they might get you these articles quicker I think this is something which should and will expand far beyond the regular bitcoin community so I wouldn't care too much on who knows who in the bitcoin circle but rather get the eyes and ears of some well established financial heavyweights .
-
KryptoKit is owned by one of the founders of Ethereum if i'm not mistaken.
Anyway, i'm not worried with the marketing at the moment. I think Bitshares did a good job at Miami, we have a solid website, good branding, nice friendly community and a good funding model. You guys have to keep in mind that people go with the hype. Right now Ethereum is getting a lot of exposure so everyone is jumping that ship.
I strongly believe Bitshares will be the rising Dark Horse of crypto, i used to work in business development and i've seen this happen to many times.
Hype does not equal to guaranteed success! Fundamentals are key and we have a solid foundation being built here.
Also Bitshares will be working (hopefully) whereas Ethereum will not even have started their IPO. This will be a wonderful period for capturing mindshares and the momentum.
-
Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).
I think you hit the nail on the head here. These guys are all friends / insiders in the bitcoin community where as we are seen as outsiders. They get a lot of buzz because of personal connections that we do not have and building these connections is a full time job.
I have actually talked with the BitAngles, presented our plans to their organization, met with David, etc. There seems to be some kind of frequency mismatch that keeps them from getting on board with what we are doing.
There is also an undercurrent of Charles Hoskinson who is VERY good at doing these kinds of deals, networking, and getting people on his side. When he was with Invictus his skills in this regard were most impressive. As you can tell from various interviews Charles is actively attempting to outcompete Invictus with a new product and thus working all of his connections behind the scenes to side with Ethereum and downplay Invictus.
From my conversations with people wearing Ethereum t-shirts in Miami it appears many are supporting the project due to friendships that are entirely independent of technical merits. They don't understand it, its limits, or its strength but they have bought into the reality distortion field that I use to joke with Charles about. The reality distortion field is strong with this one.
Despite the hype, these projects lack technical merit and are economically flawed. In the free market you can only survive so long on hype before market forces kick in.
+5%
-
thanks for sharing your impressions +5%
-
Interesting
-
Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).
I think you hit the nail on the head here. These guys are all friends / insiders in the bitcoin community where as we are seen as outsiders. They get a lot of buzz because of personal connections that we do not have and building these connections is a full time job.
I have actually talked with the BitAngles, presented our plans to their organization, met with David, etc. There seems to be some kind of frequency mismatch that keeps them from getting on board with what we are doing.
There is also an undercurrent of Charles Hoskinson who is VERY good at doing these kinds of deals, networking, and getting people on his side. When he was with Invictus his skills in this regard were most impressive. As you can tell from various interviews Charles is actively attempting to outcompete Invictus with a new product and thus working all of his connections behind the scenes to side with Ethereum and downplay Invictus.
From my conversations with people wearing Ethereum t-shirts in Miami it appears many are supporting the project due to friendships that are entirely independent of technical merits. They don't understand it, its limits, or its strength but they have bought into the reality distortion field that I use to joke with Charles about. The reality distortion field is strong with this one.
Despite the hype, these projects lack technical merit and are economically flawed. In the free market you can only survive so long on hype before market forces kick in.
I am sure you know better whats good. What appears in my head though is: Why dont you try to settle the case with Charles personally aiming at peace not mostly in business terms but in personal terms? Also making a statement (together with Charles) to the Bitcoin community about what happened what be great even though it is not the easiest way.
If you say you wanna make a statement about all that he might be willing to talk to you.
Also the mess (read the thrad on bitcoin talk where you are both being not very nice towards each other) is bad for BOTH of you. Right now mostly for I3, later on when I3 got of the ground (and the outlaw status didnt hurt the adaption) Charles might look like the one that tried to come up with something random for revenge. So you would both profit from getting over your personal disappointments.
On the one side I aggree the most innovative technology will win. On the other side strong personal connections give you a lot and mostly dont cost anything. In Berlin I heard big money investors wanting to go into bitcoin talk about Ethereum without having a sofisticated understanding of the matter.
A lot of people have great talent and people develope amazing momentum when they are given trust in advance and feel valued. Inviting the wider Bitcoin comunity to participate in Bitshares / I3 can be another way to compensate the lack discussed above. How would that work? I dont know. Posting more on Bitcointalk, having an own Bitshares thread? What else?
-
I am sure you know better whats good. What appears in my head though is: Why dont you try to settle the case with Charles personally aiming at peace not mostly in business terms but in personal terms? Also making a statement (together with Charles) to the Bitcoin community about what happened what be great even though it is not the easiest way.
If you say you wanna make a statement about all that he might be willing to talk to you.
Also the mess (read the thrad on bitcoin talk where you are both being not very nice towards each other) is bad for BOTH of you. Right now mostly for I3, later on when I3 got of the ground (and the outlaw status didnt hurt the adaption) Charles might look like the one that tried to come up with something random for revenge. So you would both profit from getting over your personal disappointments.
On the one side I aggree the most innovative technology will win. On the other side strong personal connections give you a lot and mostly dont cost anything. In Berlin I heard big money investors wanting to go into bitcoin talk about Ethereum without having a sophisticated understanding of the matter.
A lot of people have great talent and people develope amazing momentum when they are given trust in advance and feel valued. Inviting the wider Bitcoin comunity to participate in Bitshares / I3 can be another way to compensate the lack discussed above. How would that work? I dont know. Posting more on Bitcointalk, having an own Bitshares thread? What else?
I figure I'd drop by for a bit to give my two cents. I helped start Invictus Innovations and had a great time building the foundations with Dan, Stan and Bo. There is no bad blood on my side and whatever differences we have are now in the domain of strategy and vision, yet Ethereum isn't a competitor of Invictus in my mind and I hope Invictus views us in the same light. We are both doing research in this space to bring cryptocurrencies into the next generation and we both share common regulatory and legal challenges in terms of smart property and the relationship of DAOs to their respective jurisdictions.
I suppose it may be great fun to speculate on hidden motives, post some Q&A videos or attempt to infer some sort of behind the curtain drama, but honestly we are all pioneers in a new field trying to make the world a better place, all of our contributions are open sourced and we are all vetted by the free market's needs in the end. Under these constraints, it seems to make more sense to just cooperate and build great things together.
Good Luck all +5%
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)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=lfEQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE----
-
+5% x20
-
Thanks for posting. Like you I do not see ethereum as a competitor, except in the realm of attention of the community.
We have different visions. I have great respect for Charles skills at business development and that was the intent of my post.
I wish you the best.
-
Thanks for posting. Like you I do not see ethereum as a competitor, except in the realm of attention of the community.
We have different visions. I have great respect for Charles skills at business development and that was the intent of my post.
I wish you the best.
indeed me too