lol, bee watching the price drop wide eyed, people are so afraid that rather than chance it for after the snapshot, they are selling high now.
lol, bee watching the price drop wide eyed, people are so afraid that rather than chance it for after the snapshot, they are selling high now.
The price is going down because the only official announcement was a twitter, that said THIS Caution: Watch for Falling PTS
Here is the link https://twitter.com/_bitshares/status/439258784490590209
Most people will not read that article, they will only see the twitter.
Great marketing...
lol, bee watching the price drop wide eyed, people are so afraid that rather than chance it for after the snapshot, they are selling high now.
The price is going down because the only official announcement was a twitter, that said THIS Caution: Watch for Falling PTS
Here is the link https://twitter.com/_bitshares/status/439258784490590209
Most people will not read that article, they will only see the twitter.
Great marketing...
Actually its a pretty good article. The writer does post a very important issue.
I think in order to get bitshares, a PTS holder will have to hold their PTS until the DAC is released and bitshares are distributed. I could of just bought pts today waited for the snapshot and sold my PTS with no loss and have free bitshares which could be worth quite abit.
Not sure if that is fair for the longterm PTS holders who never sold as they wait for bitshares.
Could be a good idea buy PTS on cryptsy and sell on bter?
The price is going down because the only official announcement was a twitter, that said THIS Caution: Watch for Falling PTS
Here is the link https://twitter.com/_bitshares/status/439258784490590209
Most people will not read that article, they will only see the twitter.
Great marketing...
Actually its a pretty good article. The writer does post a very important issue.
I think in order to get bitshares, a PTS holder will have to hold their PTS until the DAC is released and bitshares are distributed. I could of just bought pts today waited for the snapshot and sold my PTS with no loss and have free bitshares which could be worth quite abit.
Not sure if that is fair for the longterm PTS holders who never sold as they wait for bitshares.
You all make the mistake of assuming the average investor is intelligent. THEY ARE NOT. They buy what they can easily understand and seems like a good option. When I switched my wallet over to Bitshare-PTS and my wallet got replaced and my balance went to 0 and my address changed, I freaked out, and came here.
...
The bottom line is that this whole concept does not appear to the average investor, it is not made easy to understand, and frankly, no one is going to have any interest in whatever complicated scheme several dozen aspies are conspiring to draw up on the internet, when there is absolutely no common-sense marketing, nor any attempt to make this information easily accessible, nor easy to understand. You are speaking in another language.
You all make the mistake of assuming the average investor is intelligent. THEY ARE NOT. They buy what they can easily understand and seems like a good option. When I switched my wallet over to Bitshare-PTS and my wallet got replaced and my balance went to 0 and my address changed, I freaked out, and came here.
...
The bottom line is that this whole concept does not appear to the average investor, it is not made easy to understand, and frankly, no one is going to have any interest in whatever complicated scheme several dozen aspies are conspiring to draw up on the internet, when there is absolutely no common-sense marketing, nor any attempt to make this information easily accessible, nor easy to understand. You are speaking in another language.
Maybe this is a good thing? People shouldn't put money into something they don't understand. When the software works someone will find it worthwhile to water it down.
I am so happy the price went finally down... Sure I missed the oportunity to sell high and buy again low but at least now I can afford to buy some more PTS... People that really believe in I3 shouldn't care about prices going down...It will be for a short period. At least I hope that's the case or else my wife is going to divorce me... ::)
A couple of newbie questions now:
1) If I back up my PTS wallet and save it to an external disk, I assume that I can delete the wallet.dat and an attacker cannot have access to my PTS anymore and I can upload it in the future when Bitshares X is launched.Is this correct?
2) If I do (1) above if I understand correctly, when I delete my wallet.dat from my PC, when I will launch the QT client a new wallet will be created. If I purchase more PTS and send them in the new wallet that has been created and back up it again as above is it correct to assume that now I have two different wallets that I can upload and use in the future?
3) Since now the 28th snapshot is finished am I safe to do the above without any danger to claim my bitshares when launched?
4) By doing 1,2 above I am really protected from a malware software or not really?
Appologies for the very newbie questions above. I am just holding my PTS for the very long run and I don't want to wake up a morning and see that everything have dissapeared, so please advise if there is any other better way to protect my few PTS which hopeffuly will be very valuable in a couple of years..
Thank you very much!
I was saying it's a good thing in the sense that invictus actually can't handle the attention they'd get from people who don't understand it. They should not even be collecting money IMO.In my case, it was the exchange that didn't understand it. I'd consider that a fairly significant problem
What are they supposed to do, not write any software until they sit down and explain how it works to 5% of the population? They said "here is what we are going to do, here is how you can give us money" and now there are demands for user-friendliness before anything is even ready.
sheesh well that was a huge dump :o
way to reward long term holders...
I don't want to complain about the huge price drop, since I am still a believer and support I3.
I don't want to complain about the huge price drop, since I am still a believer and support I3.
But... I am a long term investor and I am following from the beggining and I didn't see that happening...I thought that there would be some price stability in the price of PTS and not such a huge drop. If I3 knew that this was going to happen, for example if I3 sold PTS like crazy after the snapshot, I think that some advice or warning should have been sent to people who are following from the start in order to protect our shareholdings by selling also and then re-bying low now.
At this point I feel that even since I am here from the beggining I didn't make any profit and later investors coming in now have almost the same advantages as my self. Sure I will get XTS where others won't but with this drop in price I could have cashed some profits and then re-invest. Or do we expect the price to go even lower than that?
I believe that if I3 wants to keep the investors investing in them should send us some opinions, advices or signals of what they think is going to follow. An email like the nice reports that we receive from time to time would have been nice. Not everyone here read the reddit articles...
And I don't think that this would fall under inside information, but rather just an advice for the preservation of the purchase power of the initial investors. Every company sends reports to their clients and to their investors with opinions and advices. They ofcourse writte a disclaimer but they do send out warnings and reports.
Anyway, I don't want to complain anymore..I should have known better and I should have probably foresee that this would happen...It is just ennoying and makes me think to be more carefull in the future. Every time that there is a new release and the snapshot is taken everyone is going to sell like crazy...This in my opinion creates an instability and uncertainty to people who want to be long term investors..
I appologise in advance if I offended anyone.This is not my intention.It is a free market and everyone is responsible for his actions!
I don't want to complain about the huge price drop, since I am still a believer and support I3.
But... I am a long term investor and I am following from the beggining and I didn't see that happening...I thought that there would be some price stability in the price of PTS and not such a huge drop. If I3 knew that this was going to happen, for example if I3 sold PTS like crazy after the snapshot, I think that some advice or warning should have been sent to people who are following from the start in order to protect our shareholdings by selling also and then re-bying low now.
At this point I feel that even since I am here from the beggining I didn't make any profit and later investors coming in now have almost the same advantages as my self. Sure I will get XTS where others won't but with this drop in price I could have cashed some profits and then re-invest. Or do we expect the price to go even lower than that?
I believe that if I3 wants to keep the investors investing in them should send us some opinions, advices or signals of what they think is going to follow. An email like the nice reports that we receive from time to time would have been nice. Not everyone here read the reddit articles...
And I don't think that this would fall under inside information, but rather just an advice for the preservation of the purchase power of the initial investors. Every company sends reports to their clients and to their investors with opinions and advices. They ofcourse writte a disclaimer but they do send out warnings and reports.
Anyway, I don't want to complain anymore..I should have known better and I should have probably foresee that this would happen...It is just ennoying and makes me think to be more carefull in the future. Every time that there is a new release and the snapshot is taken everyone is going to sell like crazy...This in my opinion creates an instability and uncertainty to people who want to be long term investors..
I appologise in advance if I offended anyone.This is not my intention.It is a free market and everyone is responsible for his actions!
I don't want to complain about the huge price drop, since I am still a believer and support I3.
This is not a price drop. PTS is just trading ex-dividend. BTSX are the dividend.
Well I do not intend to offend you, but I think you need to learn more about investing and market reactions in supply/demand... we were all informed for several weeks there would be a snapshot taken on february 28th... so by setting such a deadline for the reward of BTS, there will be a natural increase in demand as people want to be apart of that, and naturally once the snapshot is taken, there is no longer a reason for them to hold on to PTS with this method of investing... so they immediately started selling off before demand dropped and prices as well dropped with it...
Just curious, would it be legal for me to issue a security like "This certificate is worth $100 if toast chooses option A, and $50 if toast chooses option B. Toast will just decide whatever he feels like on date XX."? Would it be legal for me to trade this?
QuoteWell I do not intend to offend you, but I think you need to learn more about investing and market reactions in supply/demand... we were all informed for several weeks there would be a snapshot taken on february 28th... so by setting such a deadline for the reward of BTS, there will be a natural increase in demand as people want to be apart of that, and naturally once the snapshot is taken, there is no longer a reason for them to hold on to PTS with this method of investing... so they immediately started selling off before demand dropped and prices as well dropped with it...
I believed that people would want to keep their PTS as this supposed to be an asset that will give you dividends in future DACs. It is not like I3 promissed something and didn't deliver, lied or did something wrong to affect the price so dramatically. This was like when Baidu stopped to accept BTCs or Gox bankrupted...I think that in a more liquid and mature market this wouldn't happen. In contrast, the demand for PTS should have increased since I3 who is behind did everything correctly. But this didn't happen. People are speculating too much all the time and this is no good.In the past investors would keep their stocks for 7 years. Nowdays, nobody keep their investment more than 7 months and in cryptocurrencies time is much much lesser.
Bitcoin millionaires are millionaires because they believed in Bitcoin and were not selling their BTCs. I though that this should have happened with PTS, but unfortunatelly I was wrong...
Other than that I agree with all your reasoning. Unfortunatelly I know nothing about mining and I definitelly have a lot to learn about cryptocurrencies. I am strangling to understand as much as possible but it is really difficult for an average investor with no much IT knowledge to follow up. You guys are able to see and analyse valuable data and information that most people can't. I will get there eventually...After all if you don't pay you don't learn...
QuoteWell I do not intend to offend you, but I think you need to learn more about investing and market reactions in supply/demand... we were all informed for several weeks there would be a snapshot taken on february 28th... so by setting such a deadline for the reward of BTS, there will be a natural increase in demand as people want to be apart of that, and naturally once the snapshot is taken, there is no longer a reason for them to hold on to PTS with this method of investing... so they immediately started selling off before demand dropped and prices as well dropped with it...
I believed that people would want to keep their PTS as this supposed to be an asset that will give you dividends in future DACs. It is not like I3 promissed something and didn't deliver, lied or did something wrong to affect the price so dramatically. This was like when Baidu stopped to accept BTCs or Gox bankrupted...I think that in a more liquid and mature market this wouldn't happen. In contrast, the demand for PTS should have increased since I3 who is behind did everything correctly. But this didn't happen. People are speculating too much all the time and this is no good.In the past investors would keep their stocks for 7 years. Nowdays, nobody keep their investment more than 7 months and in cryptocurrencies time is much much lesser.
Bitcoin millionaires are millionaires because they believed in Bitcoin and were not selling their BTCs. I though that this should have happened with PTS, but unfortunatelly I was wrong...
Other than that I agree with all your reasoning. Unfortunatelly I know nothing about mining and I definitelly have a lot to learn about cryptocurrencies. I am strangling to understand as much as possible but it is really difficult for an average investor with no much IT knowledge to follow up. You guys are able to see and analyse valuable data and information that most people can't. I will get there eventually...After all if you don't pay you don't learn...
Just curious, would it be legal for me to issue a security like "This certificate is worth $100 if toast chooses option A, and $50 if toast chooses option B. Toast will just decide whatever he feels like on date XX."? Would it be legal for me to trade this?
I don't want to complain about the huge price drop, since I am still a believer and support I3.
This is not a price drop. PTS is just trading ex-dividend. BTSX are the dividend.
this is not accurate exactly... there is an estimated drop in value as things even out between the two... however the speculation is 1 BTS will be worth $12 since 1 PTS is worth $6 which would then equal the $18 it was before the big sell off after the 28th... this all remains to be seen yet... and nobody can confirm or deny it really... we just don't know...
I don't want to complain about the huge price drop, since I am still a believer and support I3.
But... I am a long term investor and I am following from the beggining and I didn't see that happening...I thought that there would be some price stability in the price of PTS and not such a huge drop. If I3 knew that this was going to happen, for example if I3 sold PTS like crazy after the snapshot, I think that some advice or warning should have been sent to people who are following from the start in order to protect our shareholdings by selling also and then re-bying low now.
At this point I feel that even since I am here from the beggining I didn't make any profit and later investors coming in now have almost the same advantages as my self. Sure I will get XTS where others won't but with this drop in price I could have cashed some profits and then re-invest. Or do we expect the price to go even lower than that?
I believe that if I3 wants to keep the investors investing in them should send us some opinions, advices or signals of what they think is going to follow. An email like the nice reports that we receive from time to time would have been nice. Not everyone here read the reddit articles...
And I don't think that this would fall under inside information, but rather just an advice for the preservation of the purchase power of the initial investors. Every company sends reports to their clients and to their investors with opinions and advices. They ofcourse writte a disclaimer but they do send out warnings and reports.
Anyway, I don't want to complain anymore..I should have known better and I should have probably foresee that this would happen...It is just ennoying and makes me think to be more carefull in the future. Every time that there is a new release and the snapshot is taken everyone is going to sell like crazy...This in my opinion creates an instability and uncertainty to people who want to be long term investors..
I appologise in advance if I offended anyone.This is not my intention.It is a free market and everyone is responsible for his actions!
This means that the price of PTS could be about to drop like a bowl of petunias in midair. Or not.
Either way…
Don’t Panic!
Unless they release a product favoring PTS soon or ask a third party to do so, then PTS may not recover, else it will recover when they finally get round to it, but it will be temporary and after that it will drop beyond redemption.
What?
The price represents the current market valuation. At every moment in the future, the price will reflect the market valuation at that moment. You want I3 to prop it up somehow by infusing it with even more value? You want the market value to be higher than the market value. Did you buy PTS on wrong assumptions about what it represents or something? There's no deadline for DAC proposals...QuoteUnless they release a product favoring PTS soon or ask a third party to do so, then PTS may not recover, else it will recover when they finally get round to it, but it will be temporary and after that it will drop beyond redemption.
"PTS will drop and not recover unless it recovers before then".
Do you mean 3rd party DACs? Otherwise it's almost certain they'd pay that reward to themselves for BTS X or BTS DNS.
I don't want to complain about the huge price drop, since I am still a believer and support I3.
But... I am a long term investor and I am following from the beggining and I didn't see that happening...I thought that there would be some price stability in the price of PTS and not such a huge drop. If I3 knew that this was going to happen, for example if I3 sold PTS like crazy after the snapshot, I think that some advice or warning should have been sent to people who are following from the start in order to protect our shareholdings by selling also and then re-bying low now.
At this point I feel that even since I am here from the beggining I didn't make any profit and later investors coming in now have almost the same advantages as my self. Sure I will get XTS where others won't but with this drop in price I could have cashed some profits and then re-invest. Or do we expect the price to go even lower than that?
I believe that if I3 wants to keep the investors investing in them should send us some opinions, advices or signals of what they think is going to follow. An email like the nice reports that we receive from time to time would have been nice. Not everyone here read the reddit articles...
And I don't think that this would fall under inside information, but rather just an advice for the preservation of the purchase power of the initial investors. Every company sends reports to their clients and to their investors with opinions and advices. They ofcourse writte a disclaimer but they do send out warnings and reports.
Anyway, I don't want to complain anymore..I should have known better and I should have probably foresee that this would happen...It is just ennoying and makes me think to be more carefull in the future. Every time that there is a new release and the snapshot is taken everyone is going to sell like crazy...This in my opinion creates an instability and uncertainty to people who want to be long term investors..
I appologise in advance if I offended anyone.This is not my intention.It is a free market and everyone is responsible for his actions!
If you held PTS or AGS on Feb 28th you made a huge gain when you consider the combined value of both BitShares PTS and BitShares X. You still own the future of all Invictus potential in PTS/AGS and you have realized concrete proof of that potential in the release of your first tangible dividend with BitShares X. But there's more: BitShares X has advanced one stage closer to reality. Risk has been reduced which means its expected value has jumped. Delivery of BitShares X increases the value of BitShares PTS because there is now a precedent and people can see how the whole ecosystem works.
We are working to optimize the long term value of this entire industry, not any one component. If you want to speculate on near-term fluctuations, that is fine but we don't take actions to optimize short-term results.
This advance-notice article was highlighted multiple times for multiple days here on the forum:
http://letstalkbitcoin.com/caution-watch-for-falling-pts/#.UxQIi_SwLCc
Our ability to publish this information in easily consumable form everywhere is a finite resource. I wish we could reach out and explain it to each community member individually, but that is obviously not possible. We rely on people to do their part - which is to keep up with what we release.Those who put in the extra time to study what we were able to release were totally informed and profited greatly.
If proof of work mining is considered a fair way to distribute shares, then a simple 10 minutes a day using Google to mine available information is another reasonable way "earn" a piece of the gains. Or simply reading all the posts by "Stan" would cause you to encounter every important needle in the haystack. I don't write more per day than everyone should be able to read.
Knowledge and understanding is the ultimate proof of work. Those who did this minimum amount of homework now have that knowledge and deserve their reward even more than those who let their computers do all the work in mining some altcoin du jour.The information you need is there to be mined.
The proof is that many people did achieve this level of understanding.
What?
The price represents the current market valuation. At every moment in the future, the price will reflect the market valuation at that moment. You want I3 to prop it up somehow by infusing it with even more value? You want the market value to be higher than the market value. Did you buy PTS on wrong assumptions about what it represents or something? There's no deadline for DAC proposals...QuoteUnless they release a product favoring PTS soon or ask a third party to do so, then PTS may not recover, else it will recover when they finally get round to it, but it will be temporary and after that it will drop beyond redemption.
"PTS will drop and not recover unless it recovers before then".
I think the point is, this is another symptom of the failure to communicate even basic messaging. PTS *should* be very valuable, arguably more valuable now that Invictus has proven (ostensibly) that this vehicle can actually deliver a new, unique blockchain product and therefore they'll do it again.
But the only messaging I saw threw out a bunch of ideas, the majority of which they don't think they'll build this year because Bitshares itself will take so much time, so outside help is needed and a high value contest (bounty) is most appropriate IMO given the variables in this situation. You promote the contest through various channels, it brings in new developers and people who want to see what the developers are building, you spend no time and a fixed amount of resources for a variable and increasing (if you do it right) number of participants and work.Do you mean 3rd party DACs? Otherwise it's almost certain they'd pay that reward to themselves for BTS X or BTS DNS.
I don't think BTS products should count
+5%What?
The price represents the current market valuation. At every moment in the future, the price will reflect the market valuation at that moment. You want I3 to prop it up somehow by infusing it with even more value? You want the market value to be higher than the market value. Did you buy PTS on wrong assumptions about what it represents or something? There's no deadline for DAC proposals...QuoteUnless they release a product favoring PTS soon or ask a third party to do so, then PTS may not recover, else it will recover when they finally get round to it, but it will be temporary and after that it will drop beyond redemption.
"PTS will drop and not recover unless it recovers before then".
I think the point is, this is another symptom of the failure to communicate even basic messaging. PTS *should* be very valuable, arguably more valuable now that Invictus has proven (ostensibly) that this vehicle can actually deliver a new, unique blockchain product and therefore they'll do it again.
But the only messaging I saw threw out a bunch of ideas, the majority of which they don't think they'll build this year because Bitshares itself will take so much time, so outside help is needed and a high value contest (bounty) is most appropriate IMO given the variables in this situation. You promote the contest through various channels, it brings in new developers and people who want to see what the developers are building, you spend no time and a fixed amount of resources for a variable and increasing (if you do it right) number of participants and work.Do you mean 3rd party DACs? Otherwise it's almost certain they'd pay that reward to themselves for BTS X or BTS DNS.
I don't think BTS products should count
+ 1
+5%What?
The price represents the current market valuation. At every moment in the future, the price will reflect the market valuation at that moment. You want I3 to prop it up somehow by infusing it with even more value? You want the market value to be higher than the market value. Did you buy PTS on wrong assumptions about what it represents or something? There's no deadline for DAC proposals...QuoteUnless they release a product favoring PTS soon or ask a third party to do so, then PTS may not recover, else it will recover when they finally get round to it, but it will be temporary and after that it will drop beyond redemption.
"PTS will drop and not recover unless it recovers before then".
I think the point is, this is another symptom of the failure to communicate even basic messaging. PTS *should* be very valuable, arguably more valuable now that Invictus has proven (ostensibly) that this vehicle can actually deliver a new, unique blockchain product and therefore they'll do it again.
But the only messaging I saw threw out a bunch of ideas, the majority of which they don't think they'll build this year because Bitshares itself will take so much time, so outside help is needed and a high value contest (bounty) is most appropriate IMO given the variables in this situation. You promote the contest through various channels, it brings in new developers and people who want to see what the developers are building, you spend no time and a fixed amount of resources for a variable and increasing (if you do it right) number of participants and work.Do you mean 3rd party DACs? Otherwise it's almost certain they'd pay that reward to themselves for BTS X or BTS DNS.
I don't think BTS products should count
+ 1
Now sure would be a good time to take some of those angelshares funds and create a big bounty that is paid to the first successful dac to pass xx% profitability for its token holders, honor PTS/AGS with 10% each and survive 6 months. Then it would be *obvious* that PTS will have value in the future, whereas right now honestly who knows. In the video it said that Bitshares Music was currently in development but when I spoke to the invictus folks it sounded like they were thinking early 2015 as a reasonable guess.+5%
This seems like an exceptionally good use of AGS funds as it adds value to the ecosystem and provides a very attractive reason for people to develop for invictus based technologies and honor the 'invisible hand' social contract vs. picking one of the literally seven other protocols that are tackling this same broad problem. Invictus does not exist in a vacuum, but it's developing like it's in one. Don't define the tech or specifics as has been done with bounties to the point, just define the outcome you want and let the market participants self organize into the winning combination.'
Lots of good ideas being generated in multiple threads right now.. Anyone want to curate?
* move % of angel funds to community multi-sig
* offer bounty for first non-I3 DAC
Is this still a price discussion? :P
They have said that when the time is right, they will act to protect the PTS price. Right now, I'm buying as much as I can...great opportunity.