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Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bytemaster on March 09, 2014, 01:04:12 am

Title: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 09, 2014, 01:04:12 am
Floyd entrepreneur cashes in on virtual currency craze
http://www.roanoke.com/

After tomorrow:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/floyd-co-entrepreneur-cashes-in-on-virtual-currency-craze/article_d07256fc-a66f-11e3-b845-0017a43b2370.html
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: muse-umum on March 09, 2014, 02:30:53 am
 +5%

But this article talks about Bitcoin much, and seldom does it cover BTS/DAC.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: CLains on March 09, 2014, 12:24:50 pm
Cool.  :)

Didn't know you got $500k funding in the beginning.
What did they get in return?
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: SuanBing on March 09, 2014, 01:55:13 pm
 +5%
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 03:41:24 pm
Quote
Cool.  :)

Didn't know you got $500k funding in the beginning.
What did they get in return?

$500,000 from Bitfund.pe and $75,000 from Li Xiaolai directly in exchange for 25% of I3. I personally negotiated the terms of the deal back in June and July. Dan and I finalized it in a meeting with Li over skype at the VTCRC. Li and I are good friends and have been working together since the Bitcoin Education Project.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bitbro on March 09, 2014, 03:59:06 pm
What does it mean to own 25% of Invictus seeing as it's a non profit? Were funds invested in PTS or AGS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 04:06:09 pm
Quote
What does it mean to own 25% of Invictus seeing as it's a non profit? We're funds invested in PTS or AGS?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Invictus Innovations was incorporated July 4th as a for profit C-corporation in the State of Virginia and solicited investment, provided a prospectus to Li Xiaolai and represented itself as a profit seeking entity during my time as CEO and co-founder. If that has changed under Dan's leadership, then it's news to me and I suspect Bitfund.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bitbro on March 09, 2014, 04:23:43 pm
But profit will only be produced by decentralized autonomous companies, so where do i3's profit seeking objectives actually meet with their theory of DACs?  And how exactly did li xiaolai and any other initial investor see that their investment would return over time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 04:30:15 pm
Quote
But profit will only be produced by decentralized autonomous companies, so where do i3's profit seeking objectives actually meet with their theory of DACs?  And how exactly did li xiaolai and any other initial investor see that their investment would return over time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have no knowledge of that strategy or plan. It was developed after I left. The original strategy involved monetizing Keyhotee as a platform on a per user basis, activities related to the BitShares protocol, and a hardware line.

This isn't uncommon. New CEO new strategy. I can only speak for the activities I was involved with when running Invictus, which stem from convincing Li to invest up until right after the Atlanta conference in October. I have had no involvement in any decision, activity or strategy of Invictus since that time. 
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: Stan on March 09, 2014, 06:25:51 pm
(https://static.squarespace.com/static/51fb043ee4b0608e46483caf/t/531cb1d8e4b04c1bc6798db6/1394389465576/Front%20Page%20Roanoke%20Times.jpg?format=1500w)
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 09, 2014, 06:42:17 pm
But profit will only be produced by decentralized autonomous companies, so where do i3's profit seeking objectives actually meet with their theory of DACs?  And how exactly did li xiaolai and any other initial investor see that their investment would return over time?

It has been said/implied in other places, but I would like to outline our strategy for Invictus making a return for the shareholders of I3.

1) Invictus develops software at-cost and takes no profit as a company.  Ie: We will be spending 100% of AGS funds on R&D with no fee-for-service.
      a) Officers in the company receive salaries far below market value.

2) Invictus used initial VC funds to do the following:
      a) build & develop a business plan
      b) build PTS
      c) mine & buy PTS
      d) contribute funds to AGS on equal footing with everyone else.
      e) we have only received $450K of the initial $575K commitment as scheduled.

3) As a result of the initial steps the company holds free and clear (as profit) about 5% of the Feb 28th snapshot which we estimate to be worth about $2.5 million based upon PTS price prior to snapshot.  If we were to distribute everything except the AGS funds our investors would already see a profit and we haven't even released our first full DAC yet.

4) As we spend the 4+ million in AGS funds we have received we will grow the value of our 5% along with the other 95% which is owned by the community.

5) The nice thing about this strategy is that our 'profits' are all in the form of capital gains.   

The numbers and figures used in this example are mere approximations and should not be construed to represent actual numbers which only our accountant has.

The original business plan when Charles was CEO was something along the lines of:
   1) Build Keyhotee and attract a lot of eyeballs (users)
   2) Monetize these eyeballs through hardware sales (wallet, miners, add-on services)
   3) Build DACs that use our dedicated mining hardware.
   4) Run a mining pool and collect all of the fees.

As you can see we had to pivot our business plan when I eliminated mining.   You can also see that our new business model aligns our interests with those of the community much better than the old plan.   By owning shares in profit generating DACs Invictus in turn also generates profits.

Lastly we are partnering with other companies and we are earning revenue from consulting and custom development (outside of AGS).   
       
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 06:53:58 pm
Quote
The original business plan when Charles was CEO was something along the lines of:
   1) Build Keyhotee and attract a lot of eyeballs (users)
   2) Monetize these eyeballs through hardware sales (wallet, miners, add-on services)
   3) Build DACs that use our dedicated mining hardware.
   4) Run a mining pool and collect all of the fees.

This is a blatant mischaracterization of the business strategy to say somehow mining and hardware were the only planks to profit. In fact they were the minor profits to the application ecosystem Keyhotee could have enabled. But it's really a moot point, you guys pivoted to a different model, which you have every right to do as the CEO of Invictus.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 09, 2014, 07:05:46 pm
It was not my intent to mischaracterize anything Charles.  I was just trying to recall from memory what the plan was.   So to be fair, lets review a segment of our pro-forma  from our original plan:

Quote
Invictus Innovations has four primary revenue streams:
1. Monetization of user base through partnerships with service providers
2. Monetization of user base through hardware sales
3. Monetization of user base through app-store sales
4. Monetization of a cryptocurrency portfolio derived from various new blockchains

Out of this plan I have eliminated most of 2 & 3.  We are left with #4 for which the plan of monetization of crypto-currency portfolio relied heavily on strategies to acquire it via mining and pools.   I addressed (wallet, miners, add-on services) to cover 1, 2, and 3 in our plan.

So I may have recalled / expressed it slightly differently, but it was hardly a mischaracterization. 
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bitbro on March 09, 2014, 07:25:29 pm
Thanks for the answers, boys.  Love this Genius rivalry.  You two will make great headlines one day
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 07:27:07 pm
Is Invictus Innovations a for profit entity or a not for profit?
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 09, 2014, 07:38:36 pm
Is Invictus Innovations a for profit entity or a not for profit?

We are a for-profit entity, we do not have 501.3c status.   
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: wasthatawolf on March 09, 2014, 08:18:14 pm
For anyone interested, you can always look up business filings through the Secretary of State's office in the state in which the business is registered.

https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/Business/0766644 (https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/Business/0766644)
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 08:20:44 pm
Quote
For anyone interested, you can always look up business filings through the Secretary of State's office in the state in which the business is registered.

https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/Business/0766644

I'm well aware of what they say because Stan and I filed them. My final question is what is the relationship between BitShares and Invictus Innovations and what profit expectations do the investors of Invictus Innovations have from the BitShares involvement?
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: onceuponatime on March 09, 2014, 08:33:32 pm
Is Invictus Innovations a for profit entity or a not for profit?

Charles,why do you continue coming on to bitsharestalk.org to make your comments and ask your questions? I believe Ethereum has its own sites?

You seem to have trouble letting go.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 08:40:33 pm
Quote
Charles,why do you continue coming on to bitsharestalk.org to make your comments and ask your questions? I believe Ethereum has its own sites?

You seem to have trouble letting go.

Actually I keep getting drawn back in by other people or events. I would like an answer to my question, which has nothing to do with Ethereum or its affiliates. 
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 09, 2014, 08:57:18 pm
Quote
For anyone interested, you can always look up business filings through the Secretary of State's office in the state in which the business is registered.

https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/Business/0766644

I'm well aware of what they say because Stan and I filed them. My final question is what is the relationship between BitShares and Invictus Innovations and what profit expectations do the investors of Invictus Innovations have from the BitShares involvement?

As you are not an Invictus shareholder the answer to this question is not relevant to you. 
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 09:01:43 pm
Quote
As you are not an Invictus shareholder the answer to this question is not relevant to you.

It is relevant to Li Xiaolai, which is why I'm asking. It also seems to be a fair question to ask considering the BitShares protocol is being developed by I3.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: fuzzy on March 09, 2014, 09:06:52 pm
Quote
Charles,why do you continue coming on to bitsharestalk.org to make your comments and ask your questions? I believe Ethereum has its own sites?

You seem to have trouble letting go.

Actually I keep getting drawn back in by other people or events. I would like an answer to my question, which has nothing to do with Ethereum or its affiliates.

 +5%  (though it DOES have everything to do with Ethereum and affiliates)
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: onceuponatime on March 09, 2014, 09:08:49 pm
Quote
As you are not an Invictus shareholder the answer to this question is not relevant to you.

It is relevant to Li Xiaolai, which is why I'm asking. It also seems to be a fair question to ask considering the BitShares protocol is being developed by I3.

And you are his spouse? His legal guardian? His legal representative?

You are translating from Chinese to English for him?

If your motivations are not transparent to yourself I can recommend a therapist.

(My motivation is that I am a PTS/AGS holder and I find your participation on this forum to be counter to my interests._
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: fuzzy on March 09, 2014, 09:12:53 pm
Cool.  :)

Didn't know you got $500k funding in the beginning.
What did they get in return?

+5%

Thank god we will finally start getting this stuff out in the open.  Let's make sure it isn't only Bytemaster having to answer the tough questions!
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: cass on March 09, 2014, 09:31:30 pm
i know about this initial funding since oct/nov ... it wasn't communicated public but for people who wanted to contribute time/work to III at this time.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 09:32:43 pm
Quote
i know about this initial funding since october ... it wasn't communicated public but for people who wanted to contribute time/work to III at this time.

The initial funding was never hidden and has been known since the coindesk article Danny wrote in August I believe.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: cass on March 09, 2014, 09:34:24 pm
Quote
i know about this initial funding since october ... it wasn't communicated public but for people who wanted to contribute time/work to III at this time.

The initial funding was never hidden and has been known since the coindesk article Danny wrote in August I believe.

i didn't say it was hidden! But don't know exactly if it was public. Thx charles for confirming publication of the initital funding
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 09, 2014, 09:36:14 pm
Quote
i know about this initial funding since october ... it wasn't communicated public but for people who wanted to contribute time/work to III at this time.

The initial funding was never hidden and has been known since the coindesk article Danny wrote in August I believe.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitshares-p2p-trading-platform-to-offer-dividends-on-bitcoins/
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: fuzzy on March 09, 2014, 09:45:36 pm
Let us please make sure both sides answer these questions...this could be the perfect moment to inform the public so we are not so "in the dark".  I understand there is information (everywhere, scattered about...etc), but it would be nice to get a thread where these tough questions can be asked of both of you.  The entire world has a great deal at stake (not just monetarily) in the outcome of these experiments...
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: barwizi on March 09, 2014, 09:47:32 pm
Quote
As you are not an Invictus shareholder the answer to this question is not relevant to you.

It is relevant to Li Xiaolai, which is why I'm asking. It also seems to be a fair question to ask considering the BitShares protocol is being developed by I3.

And you are his spouse? His legal guardian? His legal representative?

You are translating from Chinese to English for him?

If your motivations are not transparent to yourself I can recommend a therapist.

(My motivation is that I am a PTS/AGS holder and I find your participation on this forum to be counter to my interests._

i'm a PTS holder and i'd like this line of questions to continue. i was not aware that participation in other teams is undesirable.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: onceuponatime on March 09, 2014, 09:55:59 pm
Quote
As you are not an Invictus shareholder the answer to this question is not relevant to you.

It is relevant to Li Xiaolai, which is why I'm asking. It also seems to be a fair question to ask considering the BitShares protocol is being developed by I3.

And you are his spouse? His legal guardian? His legal representative?

You are translating from Chinese to English for him?

If your motivations are not transparent to yourself I can recommend a therapist.

(My motivation is that I am a PTS/AGS holder and I find your participation on this forum to be counter to my interests._

i'm a PTS holder and i'd like this line of questions to continue. i was not aware that participation in other teams is undesirable.

I invite Li Xiaolai to come on to this forum with any questions, since he appears to be directly involved and has skin in the game. Charles, on the other hand, has withdrawn and his motivation, whatever it may be, is transparently not to maximize value to PTS/AGS holders.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: charleshoskinson on March 09, 2014, 09:58:06 pm
Quote
Let us please make sure both sides answer these questions...this could be the perfect moment to inform the public so we are not so "in the dark".  I understand there is information (everywhere, scattered about...etc), but it would be nice to get a thread where these tough questions can be asked of both of you.  The entire world has a great deal at stake (not just monetarily) in the outcome of these experiments...

There are no tough questions on my end. I am no longer associated with Invictus Innovations as of October and that was a decision made by the other members of the board of directors. It is a closed matter and will not be reopened by me because it is productive to no one.

The only Invictus issues that I am subject to are those involving the foundation of the company up until I left in October. Changes to the proforma impact all investors of I3 and the management has a fiduciary duty to communicate these changes to all investors in a timely manner. I am simply asking what the relationship between I3 and BitShares is and how this relationship benefits the investors of I3. From the Texas conference:

Quote
Dan Larimer
Founder & CEO, BitShares
Daniel Larimer is a Virginia based entrepreneur and software engineer with a passion to find free market solutions to secure life, liberty, and property. He is the founder of BitShares.org and the originator of the concept of DACs (decentralized autonomous companies). He is the chief architect of the peer-to-peer, trust-less, block chain based financial system known as BitShares.
http://texasbitcoinconference.com/speakers

There seems to be a debranding of I3 into BitShares thus my interest in the query.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 09, 2014, 10:17:41 pm
Mr. Li has seen posts and contacted us privately about the non-profit claim made by Stan.   Obviously he was concerned, as was I, because the first I heard of it was when Mr. Li contacted me.    Anyway it is clear that Stan, being an engineer and left alone to fend off forum fires while we were in Texas, stated things in a way that clearly demonstrated our commitment to not profit (directly) from AGS funds .  Living in the realm of consideration for those who gave to AGS or own PTS can sometimes lose sight of I3 shareholders. 

The reason why we actually don't concern ourselves with I3 shares much is because what is good for AGS and PTS is also good for I3 shareholders.  There is no conflict of interest where we would take actions to benefit I3 shareholders at the expense of the community.   In other words, I am using the funds provided by Mr. Li to generate the greatest returns I know how for him as if his funds were my own personal investment. 

Think of Invictus as being a CEO who's only compensation is the stock he *BOUGHT* in his own company from the market.    The reason Mr. Li has an an opportunity to profit from BTS X is because he funded Invictus in the first place.    Part of what Mr. Li wanted was a coin with no pre-mine which means no advantage for us over everyone else in the ecosystem.   This in turn translated into AGS being equal opportunity and Invictus having to mine, buy, or donate our way to 5% in competition with everyone else.   This means that Mr. Li is a very generous man who put equal opportunity for everyone in the community ahead of maximizing his own return through a pre-mine. 

We are therefore committed to maximizing the value of our 5% on behalf of Mr. Li.     
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: Stan on March 09, 2014, 10:22:40 pm
Quote
Let us please make sure both sides answer these questions...this could be the perfect moment to inform the public so we are not so "in the dark".  I understand there is information (everywhere, scattered about...etc), but it would be nice to get a thread where these tough questions can be asked of both of you.  The entire world has a great deal at stake (not just monetarily) in the outcome of these experiments...

There are no tough questions on my end. I am no longer associated with Invictus Innovations as of October and that was a decision made by the other members of the board of directors. It is a closed matter and will not be reopened by me because it is productive to no one.

The only Invictus issues that I am subject to are those involving the foundation of the company up until I left in October. Changes to the proforma impact all investors of I3 and the management has a fiduciary duty to communicate these changes to all investors in a timely manner. I am simply asking what the relationship between I3 and BitShares is and how this relationship benefits the investors of I3. From the Texas conference:

Quote
Dan Larimer
Founder & CEO, BitShares
Daniel Larimer is a Virginia based entrepreneur and software engineer with a passion to find free market solutions to secure life, liberty, and property. He is the founder of BitShares.org and the originator of the concept of DACs (decentralized autonomous companies). He is the chief architect of the peer-to-peer, trust-less, block chain based financial system known as BitShares.
http://texasbitcoinconference.com/speakers

There seems to be a debranding of I3 into BitShares thus my interest in the query.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2166.msg25304#msg25304
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bretthuda33 on March 09, 2014, 11:06:14 pm
We are a culture in decline. I really hope everyone can still work together and make something productive out of all this. We need to see that greed is a learned human trait, in our epigenetics, which is proven, and not human nature. Our culture and it's for profit incentives has corrupted our sensible, pro-human side. So all I ask is ask yourself if you are being the mature, rational human.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: fuzzy on March 09, 2014, 11:47:39 pm
 +5%
Quote
As you are not an Invictus shareholder the answer to this question is not relevant to you.

It is relevant to Li Xiaolai, which is why I'm asking. It also seems to be a fair question to ask considering the BitShares protocol is being developed by I3.

And you are his spouse? His legal guardian? His legal representative?

You are translating from Chinese to English for him?

If your motivations are not transparent to yourself I can recommend a therapist.

(My motivation is that I am a PTS/AGS holder and I find your participation on this forum to be counter to my interests._

i'm a PTS holder and i'd like this line of questions to continue. i was not aware that participation in other teams is undesirable.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: fuzzy on March 10, 2014, 12:01:07 am
Quote
Let us please make sure both sides answer these questions...this could be the perfect moment to inform the public so we are not so "in the dark".  I understand there is information (everywhere, scattered about...etc), but it would be nice to get a thread where these tough questions can be asked of both of you.  The entire world has a great deal at stake (not just monetarily) in the outcome of these experiments...

There are no tough questions on my end. I am no longer associated with Invictus Innovations as of October and that was a decision made by the other members of the board of directors. It is a closed matter and will not be reopened by me because it is productive to no one.

The only Invictus issues that I am subject to are those involving the foundation of the company up until I left in October. Changes to the proforma impact all investors of I3 and the management has a fiduciary duty to communicate these changes to all investors in a timely manner. I am simply asking what the relationship between I3 and BitShares is and how this relationship benefits the investors of I3. From the Texas conference:

Quote
Dan Larimer
Founder & CEO, BitShares
Daniel Larimer is a Virginia based entrepreneur and software engineer with a passion to find free market solutions to secure life, liberty, and property. He is the founder of BitShares.org and the originator of the concept of DACs (decentralized autonomous companies). He is the chief architect of the peer-to-peer, trust-less, block chain based financial system known as BitShares.
http://texasbitcoinconference.com/speakers

There seems to be a debranding of I3 into BitShares thus my interest in the query.

Of course their aren't Charles.  You are quite cool and calculating my friend...and you obviously have perfected your pitch.  How long did it take looking in the mirror or chatting with your "advisors" to get this down?

Yet it seems so odd how you only show up on our forums to post when it directly will benefit you and "Ether" huffers... 14 posts and all in only the interest of batting away fires you start? My desire to listen to you grows less and less with every post here.  Taking into consideration I have been banned from "ethereum's" subreddit for asking questions and keeping them in the minds of those who visit makes me trust you and your little group even less.  Sure you enlisted talent...I just wonder if they know who they are working for.

Now it is my turn to ask, "why the hell are you here?"  Obviously you are not here to aid our community other than to ask tough questions from which you yourself apparently are immune.  Go back to magic land...

I honestly do not care why you left Invictus anymore.  I look at you and I think "Bill Gates"...and that is not a good thing.  The only difference is that the tech we are all looking at has consequences that potentially FAR outweigh the damage centralized systems have done to the world we know today and so the wrong individuals with the wrong ego could cause a great deal of pain to genuinely good people.

P.S.  sorry to those on the forums who know me and know this is out of my character...Charles and his antics have a tendency to bring me here..."I don't need to explain myself to anyone...no tough questions needed on my end, I am flawless...Turing complete! One chain to rule them all!"...these things all wreak of something I don't want to touch with a ten-foot pole let alone my investment money.  It's a good thing you already have plenty of "advisors" in the bitcoin community to co-opt, I mean fund, this venture of yours. 

Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: Liberty on March 10, 2014, 12:02:56 am
We are a culture in decline. I really hope everyone can still work together and make something productive out of all this. We need to see that greed is a learned human trait, in our epigenetics, which is proven, and not human nature. Our culture and it's for profit incentives has corrupted our sensible, pro-human side. So all I ask is ask yourself if you are being the mature, rational human.

Selfishness is rational. A system is culturally beneficial to the extent that it denies undeserved enrichment. It is true that our culture has been corrupted, but that comes from undermining natural rights that generally ensure that profit comes through respectful service to others through mutually beneficial exchange. Our culture is in decline as laws have become predatory toward the rights and property of individuals.

The true value of what I3 is doing will become obvious to all over time. Charles seems to be inviting questions that investors might be interested in. I3 forum signatures make it clear now that they don't want be held accountable for anything that is said. Investments are based on opinions of a dream that may or may not be prove to be practical. The plan is subject to interpretation where it is common to criticize someone for not knowing the latest variation of the plan than to explain what the current plan is. That seems like a culture in decline. I still hold some PTS, so I'm still one of the hopeful.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: fuzzy on March 10, 2014, 12:10:02 am
Charles seems to be inviting questions that investors might be interested in. I3 forum signatures make it clear now that they don't want be held accountable for anything that is said. Investments are based on opinions of a dream that may or may not be prove to be practical. The plan is subject to interpretation where it is common to criticize someone for not knowing the latest variation of the plan than to explain what the current plan is. That seems like a culture in decline. I still hold some PTS, so I'm still one of the hopeful.

Though I would agree whole-heartedly about this, it seems very telling to me that he feels there should be no reason to answer our community's questions (should they even have any).  He is plainly here to put the spotlight on Invictus AFTER he has left it behind.  Of course, when asked why he says "because I am no longer part of Invictus"...then why the hell are you here asking these questions?  Are you an investor?


We are a culture in decline. I really hope everyone can still work together and make something productive out of all this. We need to see that greed is a learned human trait, in our epigenetics, which is proven, and not human nature. Our culture and it's for profit incentives has corrupted our sensible, pro-human side. So all I ask is ask yourself if you are being the mature, rational human.
wow this sounds like we have a person trained in psychology here...Good points.  I try to remain mature but my "irrational side" says to look out for weaselly activity.  Charles obviously has one thing in mind and it is not the pro-human side of this movement.  Scares the shit out of me too...

Imagine Decentralized Autonomous Drone wars...now THAT will be profitable!

 +5%
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: toast on March 10, 2014, 12:36:06 am

 The original strategy involved monetizing Keyhotee as a platform on a per user basis, activities related to the BitShares protocol, and a hardware line.


Ew, gross

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 10, 2014, 12:37:09 am
With respect to my signature that is intended to distinguish casual conversations on this forum from more serious legal documents or commitments.   If everything I write on this forum could be construed to be legally binding I would have no choice but to stop posting all together because I would have to have a lawyer look over every post.     Stan makes one mis-statement and there is a huge controversy.

Many things I post on here are personal opinions and not that of me acting in my role of corporate officer.   

This all falls into my post-contract society enabled by crypto-assets and thus should be of no surprise.     

Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: Xeldal on March 10, 2014, 12:45:17 am
Your can be sure Charles is looking over your shoulder... patiently waiting...  ...and oop, there he is again.  We may be able to start a bit-Hoskinson and take bets on when he will reappear.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: fuzzy on March 10, 2014, 12:58:30 am
With respect to my signature that is intended to distinguish casual conversations on this forum from more serious legal documents or commitments.   If everything I write on this forum could be construed to be legally binding I would have no choice but to stop posting all together because I would have to have a lawyer look over every post.     Stan makes one mis-statement and there is a huge controversy.

Many things I post on here are personal opinions and not that of me acting in my role of corporate officer.   

This all falls into my post-contract society enabled by crypto-assets and thus should be of no surprise.   

It's cool Bytemaster, you do not need to explain this...people know where your heart is in this movement, though sometimes we question whether your actions unintentionally fall out of line with your priorities, we can be pretty certain at the very least that you have the moral highground with regard to the future you want to help create.



 The original strategy involved monetizing Keyhotee as a platform on a per user basis, activities related to the BitShares protocol, and a hardware line.


Ew, gross

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Isn't it funny that Daniel wanted to give Keyhotee for FREE to EVERYONE?  These are precisely the little points that over time make an ominous big picture with regard to Charles.


Your can be sure Charles is looking over your shoulder... patiently waiting...  ...and oop, there he is again.  We may be able to start a bit-Hoskinson and take bets on when he will reappear.

Lol... well played. +5%
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: sumantso on March 10, 2014, 02:06:01 am

 The original strategy involved monetizing Keyhotee as a platform on a per user basis, activities related to the BitShares protocol, and a hardware line.


Ew, gross


Makes you feel how neat and elegant the new plan is, eh?

Bytemaster, I don't get the legal stuff, but wouldn't it have been possible for you to invest on behalf of Mr. Li in a private manner and declare I3 non-profit?
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 10, 2014, 02:43:07 am

 The original strategy involved monetizing Keyhotee as a platform on a per user basis, activities related to the BitShares protocol, and a hardware line.


Ew, gross


Makes you feel how neat and elegant the new plan is, eh?

Bytemaster, I don't get the legal stuff, but wouldn't it have been possible for you to invest on behalf of Mr. Li in a private manner and declare I3 non-profit?

It would have been possible, except no business plan survives first contact with the market.   At the time we made an agreement with Mr. Li, the concept of AGS, PTS, had not entered the picture.   

There are many moving pieces here and we are actively trying to make sure everyone gets a better deal than we initially promised. 
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: muse-umum on March 10, 2014, 08:10:45 am
Thanks for your frank explanation. Judging from the great differences between the original strategy and the one implemented under your leadership, I feel so grateful that you are in charge now, abandoned the POW.

My question :
The unspent pts/btc through AGS donation can get huge amounts of bts. How will you spend these bts ? The DACs R&D or 3I investors (Bitfund.pe and Mr Li) profit ?
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: lakerta06 on March 10, 2014, 08:21:03 am
Thanks for your frank explanation. Judging from the great differences between the original strategy and the one implemented under your leadership, I feel so grateful that you are in charge now, abandoned the POW.

My question :
The unspent pts/btc through AGS donation can get huge amounts of bts. How will you spend these bts ? The DACs R&D or 3I investors (Bitfund.pe and Mr Li) profit ?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2526 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2526)
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: muse-umum on March 10, 2014, 08:26:30 am
Thanks for your frank explanation. Judging from the great differences between the original strategy and the one implemented under your leadership, I feel so grateful that you are in charge now, abandoned the POW.

My question :
The unspent pts/btc through AGS donation can get huge amounts of bts. How will you spend these bts ? The DACs R&D or 3I investors (Bitfund.pe and Mr Li) profit ?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2526 (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2526)

Thank you very much !
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: Overthetop on March 10, 2014, 10:31:02 am
But profit will only be produced by decentralized autonomous companies, so where do i3's profit seeking objectives actually meet with their theory of DACs?  And how exactly did li xiaolai and any other initial investor see that their investment would return over time?

It has been said/implied in other places, but I would like to outline our strategy for Invictus making a return for the shareholders of I3.

1) Invictus develops software at-cost and takes no profit as a company.  Ie: We will be spending 100% of AGS funds on R&D with no fee-for-service.
      a) Officers in the company receive salaries far below market value.

2) Invictus used initial VC funds to do the following:
      a) build & develop a business plan
      b) build PTS
      c) mine & buy PTS
      d) contribute funds to AGS on equal footing with everyone else.
      e) we have only received $450K of the initial $575K commitment as scheduled.

3) As a result of the initial steps the company holds free and clear (as profit) about 5% of the Feb 28th snapshot which we estimate to be worth about $2.5 million based upon PTS price prior to snapshot.  If we were to distribute everything except the AGS funds our investors would already see a profit and we haven't even released our first full DAC yet.

4) As we spend the 4+ million in AGS funds we have received we will grow the value of our 5% along with the other 95% which is owned by the community.

5) The nice thing about this strategy is that our 'profits' are all in the form of capital gains.   

The numbers and figures used in this example are mere approximations and should not be construed to represent actual numbers which only our accountant has.

The original business plan when Charles was CEO was something along the lines of:
   1) Build Keyhotee and attract a lot of eyeballs (users)
   2) Monetize these eyeballs through hardware sales (wallet, miners, add-on services)
   3) Build DACs that use our dedicated mining hardware.
   4) Run a mining pool and collect all of the fees.

As you can see we had to pivot our business plan when I eliminated mining.   You can also see that our new business model aligns our interests with those of the community much better than the old plan.   By owning shares in profit generating DACs Invictus in turn also generates profits.

Lastly we are partnering with other companies and we are earning revenue from consulting and custom development (outside of AGS).   
     

 +5%
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: santaclause102 on March 10, 2014, 10:57:21 am
We are a culture in decline. I really hope everyone can still work together and make something productive out of all this. We need to see that greed is a learned human trait, in our epigenetics, which is proven, and not human nature. Our culture and it's for profit incentives has corrupted our sensible, pro-human side. So all I ask is ask yourself if you are being the mature, rational human.

Well said :)
Please keep on contributing to this forum!
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: santaclause102 on March 10, 2014, 11:15:22 am
We are a culture in decline. I really hope everyone can still work together and make something productive out of all this. We need to see that greed is a learned human trait, in our epigenetics, which is proven, and not human nature. Our culture and it's for profit incentives has corrupted our sensible, pro-human side. So all I ask is ask yourself if you are being the mature, rational human.

Selfishness is rational. A system is culturally beneficial to the extent that it denies undeserved enrichment. It is true that our culture has been corrupted, but that comes from undermining natural rights that generally ensure that profit comes through respectful service to others through mutually beneficial exchange. Our culture is in decline as laws have become predatory toward the rights and property of individuals.

Agree with what you said.
But one should distinguish and not confuse rational selfishness (you could also say selflove which will also make you love others) with the obsession/dissease of hording material goods / greed.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: CLains on March 10, 2014, 12:12:13 pm
Rational agency only makes sense with primitive, qualitative goal(s) in mind; e.g. maximizing ones own happiness, or the happiness of others, or maximizing pain, or maximizing money, or avoiding death, or avoiding the death of other people, etc. Besides, rational action is typically construed with respect to a limited perspective (e.g. a person at a place at a time with a finite goal), but with consensus technology both the scope and quality of rational action can change drastically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superrationality).
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: luckybit on March 10, 2014, 12:47:34 pm
Floyd entrepreneur cashes in on virtual currency craze
http://www.roanoke.com/

After tomorrow:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/floyd-co-entrepreneur-cashes-in-on-virtual-currency-craze/article_d07256fc-a66f-11e3-b845-0017a43b2370.html

One thing I notice as a fellow geek, that is a bad ass multi-monitor setup. I am jealous.
Does it boost productivity as much as I think it does?

Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: luckybit on March 10, 2014, 02:52:09 pm
Thanks for your frank explanation. Judging from the great differences between the original strategy and the one implemented under your leadership, I feel so grateful that you are in charge now, abandoned the POW.

My question :
The unspent pts/btc through AGS donation can get huge amounts of bts. How will you spend these bts ? The DACs R&D or 3I investors (Bitfund.pe and Mr Li) profit ?

This is a good question.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: toast on March 10, 2014, 02:53:40 pm
They've said that they're going to be used the same way as the AGS funds
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: Stan on March 10, 2014, 03:29:04 pm
Thanks for your frank explanation. Judging from the great differences between the original strategy and the one implemented under your leadership, I feel so grateful that you are in charge now, abandoned the POW.

My question :
The unspent pts/btc through AGS donation can get huge amounts of bts. How will you spend these bts ? The DACs R&D or 3I investors (Bitfund.pe and Mr Li) profit ?

This is a good question.

Any gains from AGS donations ("eggs" from the PTS "golden geese") are also reserved to grow the industry, not for Invictus.  Thus, there are now PTS-generated XTS "eggs" in the development fund that can be used to pay for more development and promotions.  Invictus has promised not to directly profit from these geese or the eggs they lay.  If we can grow the value and number of the golden eggs in this basket faster than we spend them, then the industry will have a perpetual flywheel to keep it going and growing.  Another reason to weigh when and how to responsibly use these assets.

Meanwhile, Invictus owns its own supply of PTS and AGS "geese" (earned by mining, purchasing and donating our own funds) and XTS "eggs" which will grow the same way for our investors as we work to grow their value for everybody.

Thus, when somebody says III "doesn't care" about about the value of any of these products, it should be clear that they have no understanding of how we are structured or how we have worked to keep our own incentives aligned with those of the rest of the community.

Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: muse-umum on March 10, 2014, 03:48:19 pm
Thanks for your frank explanation. Judging from the great differences between the original strategy and the one implemented under your leadership, I feel so grateful that you are in charge now, abandoned the POW.

My question :
The unspent pts/btc through AGS donation can get huge amounts of bts. How will you spend these bts ? The DACs R&D or 3I investors (Bitfund.pe and Mr Li) profit ?

This is a good question.

Any gains from AGS donations ("eggs" from the PTS "golden geese") are also reserved to grow the industry, not for Invictus.  Thus, there are now PTS-generated XTS "eggs" in the development fund that can be used to pay for more development and promotions.  Invictus has promised not to directly profit from these geese or the eggs they lay.  If we can grow the value and number of the golden eggs in this basket faster than we spend them, then the industry will have a perpetual flywheel to keep it going and growing.  Another reason to weigh when and how to responsibly use these assets.

Meanwhile, Invictus owns its own supply of PTS and AGS "geese" (earned by mining, purchasing and donating our own funds) and XTS "eggs" which will grow the same way for our investors as we work to grow their value for everybody.

Thus, when somebody says III "doesn't care" about about the value of any of these products, it should be clear that they have no understanding of how we are structured or how we have worked to keep our own incentives aligned with those of the rest of the community.

Thanks, Stan.

Appreciated.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: G1ng3rBr34dM4n on March 10, 2014, 04:11:59 pm
Thanks for your frank explanation. Judging from the great differences between the original strategy and the one implemented under your leadership, I feel so grateful that you are in charge now, abandoned the POW.

My question :
The unspent pts/btc through AGS donation can get huge amounts of bts. How will you spend these bts ? The DACs R&D or 3I investors (Bitfund.pe and Mr Li) profit ?

This is a good question.

Any gains from AGS donations ("eggs" from the PTS "golden geese") are also reserved to grow the industry, not for Invictus.  Thus, there are now PTS-generated XTS "eggs" in the development fund that can be used to pay for more development and promotions.  Invictus has promised not to directly profit from these geese or the eggs they lay.  If we can grow the value and number of the golden eggs in this basket faster than we spend them, then the industry will have a perpetual flywheel to keep it going and growing.  Another reason to weigh when and how to responsibly use these assets.

Meanwhile, Invictus owns its own supply of PTS and AGS "geese" (earned by mining, purchasing and donating our own funds) and XTS "eggs" which will grow the same way for our investors as we work to grow their value for everybody.

Thus, when somebody says III "doesn't care" about about the value of any of these products, it should be clear that they have no understanding of how we are structured or how we have worked to keep our own incentives aligned with those of the rest of the community.

I like the "geese" analogy for PTS, you could explain that to a 5 year old.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: bytemaster on March 10, 2014, 04:26:48 pm
Floyd entrepreneur cashes in on virtual currency craze
http://www.roanoke.com/

After tomorrow:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/floyd-co-entrepreneur-cashes-in-on-virtual-currency-craze/article_d07256fc-a66f-11e3-b845-0017a43b2370.html

One thing I notice as a fellow geek, that is a bad ass multi-monitor setup. I am jealous.
Does it boost productivity as much as I think it does?

Yes it does.   

FYI the two monitors were purchased a year prior to starting Invictus and the iMac was purchased long prior to even PTS launching... just in case anyone thought I was using AGS funds to buy computer bling.     
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: barwizi on March 10, 2014, 04:44:22 pm
Floyd entrepreneur cashes in on virtual currency craze
http://www.roanoke.com/

After tomorrow:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/floyd-co-entrepreneur-cashes-in-on-virtual-currency-craze/article_d07256fc-a66f-11e3-b845-0017a43b2370.html

One thing I notice as a fellow geek, that is a bad ass multi-monitor setup. I am jealous.
Does it boost productivity as much as I think it does?

Yes it does.   

FYI the two monitors were purchased a year prior to starting Invictus and the iMac was purchased long prior to even PTS launching... just in case anyone thought I was using AGS funds to buy computer bling.   

if it's a dev pc then i wouldn't mind
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: G1ng3rBr34dM4n on March 10, 2014, 04:52:07 pm
Floyd entrepreneur cashes in on virtual currency craze
http://www.roanoke.com/

After tomorrow:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/floyd-co-entrepreneur-cashes-in-on-virtual-currency-craze/article_d07256fc-a66f-11e3-b845-0017a43b2370.html

One thing I notice as a fellow geek, that is a bad ass multi-monitor setup. I am jealous.
Does it boost productivity as much as I think it does?

Yes it does.   

FYI the two monitors were purchased a year prior to starting Invictus and the iMac was purchased long prior to even PTS launching... just in case anyone thought I was using AGS funds to buy computer bling.   

if it's a dev pc then i wouldn't mind

+1  ...gotta have the right tools!
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: Stan on March 10, 2014, 05:02:41 pm
Floyd entrepreneur cashes in on virtual currency craze
http://www.roanoke.com/

After tomorrow:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/floyd-co-entrepreneur-cashes-in-on-virtual-currency-craze/article_d07256fc-a66f-11e3-b845-0017a43b2370.html

One thing I notice as a fellow geek, that is a bad ass multi-monitor setup. I am jealous.
Does it boost productivity as much as I think it does?

Yes it does.   

FYI the two monitors were purchased a year prior to starting Invictus and the iMac was purchased long prior to even PTS launching... just in case anyone thought I was using AGS funds to buy computer bling.   

if it's a dev pc then i wouldn't mind

+1  ...gotta have the right tools!

Not to mention the 10,000 ft runway we had to put in so that Federal Express could airlift the pallets of 12oz pressurized liquid caffeine cartridges needed to keep those monitors fully utilized 24x7...
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: barwizi on March 10, 2014, 05:39:20 pm
Floyd entrepreneur cashes in on virtual currency craze
http://www.roanoke.com/

After tomorrow:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/floyd-co-entrepreneur-cashes-in-on-virtual-currency-craze/article_d07256fc-a66f-11e3-b845-0017a43b2370.html

One thing I notice as a fellow geek, that is a bad ass multi-monitor setup. I am jealous.
Does it boost productivity as much as I think it does?

Yes it does.   

FYI the two monitors were purchased a year prior to starting Invictus and the iMac was purchased long prior to even PTS launching... just in case anyone thought I was using AGS funds to buy computer bling.   

if it's a dev pc then i wouldn't mind

+1  ...gotta have the right tools!

Not to mention the 10,000 ft runway we had to put in so that Federal Express could airlift the pallets of 12oz pressurized liquid caffeine cartridges needed to keep those monitors fully utilized 24x7...

I told you to just buy the factory and be done with it!

but seriously, i think that more costs of development should be from the fund. Even Stan deserves a high chair.
Title: Re: Front Page Roanoke Times
Post by: fuzzy on March 12, 2014, 07:59:15 am
Floyd entrepreneur cashes in on virtual currency craze
http://www.roanoke.com/

After tomorrow:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/floyd-co-entrepreneur-cashes-in-on-virtual-currency-craze/article_d07256fc-a66f-11e3-b845-0017a43b2370.html

One thing I notice as a fellow geek, that is a bad ass multi-monitor setup. I am jealous.
Does it boost productivity as much as I think it does?

Yes it does.   

FYI the two monitors were purchased a year prior to starting Invictus and the iMac was purchased long prior to even PTS launching... just in case anyone thought I was using AGS funds to buy computer bling.   

if it's a dev pc then i wouldn't mind

+1  ...gotta have the right tools!

Not to mention the 10,000 ft runway we had to put in so that Federal Express could airlift the pallets of 12oz pressurized liquid caffeine cartridges needed to keep those monitors fully utilized 24x7...

I told you to just buy the factory and be done with it!

but seriously, i think that more costs of development should be from the fund. Even Stan deserves a high chair.
+5%
If anyone deserves a high chair its Stan. ;)