BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: tianshi on June 23, 2014, 06:13:48 am

Title: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: tianshi on June 23, 2014, 06:13:48 am
I feel depressed about the development progress right now and sorry for that i have to say something which is really unpleasant to the ear.

Please, work and all focus on bitshares XT. Stop discussing the other things or just let Stan to be responsible for the discussion part. All programmers just work onthe codes.

I think we are too slow. Orignially I thought it was because we wanted something perfect. But now, I think it is because 3I have too many thoughts but lack of execution ability. A brilliant idea is worth nothing, only the team could make it can earn billions of dollars.

See NXT, they work so fast with only 21 BTC. I think that's because they are more concentrated. 3I have so many BTCs and PTSs. However, until now, nothing,  even a wallet without any real market funtion seems to be so far away from being released.

I think, first, stop thinking so many ideas. It is useless.
Second, please do not waste too much time on the forum and see everybody's opinion. It is also useless.
Only one thing matters, that is trying to make some real product.

Focus, execution ability are the only two things which are imporant for 3I teams.

Please, make some products. Before that, stop saying anything. It is useless. 

If you guys go to the forum and say something that should be, when you could release the products. Can anyone answer this? If no, please just work on XT with full concentration and stop thinking the other things too much.

Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: gyhy on June 23, 2014, 06:16:31 am
 +5%
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: tianshi on June 23, 2014, 06:28:15 am
And I just heard that even Darkcoin has released a new wallet version and BitID can be tradeable.

feel so dissapointed~
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: bytemaster on June 23, 2014, 06:33:49 am
I hear you... we spend very little time over all thinking about all of these other things.   Focusing on XT is all we are doing right now and if you have been following the dry run tests you will see that the basic wallet functions are there and the rate of improvement is vastly faster these past few weeks.   

It is so close that it could probably be launched for real and upgraded on the fly at any time.   
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: nj-racoon on June 23, 2014, 06:36:16 am
 +5% +5% +5%
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: onceuponatime on June 23, 2014, 06:37:44 am
There is far too much posting in the main threads by newly registered participants attempting to disrupt rather than contribute. The best way to keep this forum focused would be to have a 30 day waiting period where "newbies" are only allowed to post in a "newbie" thread.

If a newly registered poster has been a "long time lurker",  too bad. Because you might just be a sock puppet inculcating dissent. Or you are a hit and run investor hoping for "pump and dump" style profits and share not of the philosophical underpinnings of III.

Anyone who has been around this forum for months knows in their bones the utter integrity of the Bitshares team. You may not agree with all their decisions, but you know they are attempting to do the best they can for PTS and AGS holders and for the DAC ecosystem.

Some people have a need to tear things down rather than build things up. I personally don't understand that attitude, but hey, it takes all kinds. But it seems to me unwise to allow such people into the main threads until they have at least shown enough persistence to sit through a 30 day waiting period. Most will just gravitate to go on to badmouth other forums where little determination or creativity, and zero positive contribution, is required rather than undergo a 30 day period of learning and reflection.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: xeroc on June 23, 2014, 07:04:10 am
There is far too much posting in the main threads by newly registered participants attempting to disrupt rather than contribute. The best way to keep this forum focused would be to have a 30 day waiting period where "newbies" are only allowed to post in a "newbie" thread.
+5%

Or maybe write permissions to theses boards only if they have 40+ posts .. only writeable the newbie and techsupport boards!
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: xeroc on June 23, 2014, 07:19:08 am
And I just heard that even Darkcoin has released a new wallet version and BitID can be tradeable.

feel so dissapointed~
LOL

That is exactly what I thought for the real reason behind recent price climb of darkcoin which has nothing to do with the coin.
People just skrew themselves by mixing things up!

In short:

DarkWallet IS NOT releated to darkcoin!!!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28uk9n/darkwallet_alpha_5_release_introducing_bitid/

EDIT: thinking about it just hurts!
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: tianshi on June 23, 2014, 07:58:42 am
There is far too much posting in the main threads by newly registered participants attempting to disrupt rather than contribute. The best way to keep this forum focused would be to have a 30 day waiting period where "newbies" are only allowed to post in a "newbie" thread.

If a newly registered poster has been a "long time lurker",  too bad. Because you might just be a sock puppet inculcating dissent. Or you are a hit and run investor hoping for "pump and dump" style profits and share not of the philosophical underpinnings of III.

Anyone who has been around this forum for months knows in their bones the utter integrity of the Bitshares team. You may not agree with all their decisions, but you know they are attempting to do the best they can for PTS and AGS holders and for the DAC ecosystem.

Some people have a need to tear things down rather than build things up. I personally don't understand that attitude, but hey, it takes all kinds. But it seems to me unwise to allow such people into the main threads until they have at least shown enough persistence to sit through a 30 day waiting period. Most will just gravitate to go on to badmouth other forums where little determination or creativity, and zero positive contribution, is required rather than undergo a 30 day period of learning and reflection.

Thank you for your genius speech ~ but actually some newbies are not real newbies, they may have been on this forum for long time like me.  i don't feel dissapointed since the first day i was with 3I. i have waited for over half a year and gradually lose some of the confidence (not all, but some, about 50% )     :)

i think BM works so hard, and he might be a very talented man, and i think BM is very nice person.  most team members seem to be good.

but it also seems that by now, 3I is not very successful and did not do a very good job that satisfy most people because you can see it through the AGS donation situation and the PTS price.

in recent months,  darkcoin,nxt, blackcoin , bitcoin price perform well, and that means most people satisfy about them
however, 3I is not good enough.
 
sometimes, Chinese people may express their love to someone by critizing them.

as an Chinese saying gose "scold is love"






Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: betax on June 23, 2014, 08:29:58 am
I would not worry, looking at the code the progress that has been made is really good. Once the main core framework is ready, the creation of DACs will be "rather" easy, but to do so you need a solid framework (toolkit) which is what has been happening up until now, this is not just a wallet. Getting the main framework right cannot be done by adding lots of extra resource, so the expenditure / resources should be minimum at this part, but once is ready and it allows to do so, more resources can be added. We have already experienced this by seeing the addition to the team Toast or Hackfisher.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: jae208 on June 24, 2014, 12:27:54 am
They say the truth hurts and from my point of view getting rid of Charles Hoskinson looks to have been a bad business decision.

Why?

Well, let's start with the fact that by many metrics the I3 team is doing phenomenal when compared to the Ethereum team but despite this you hear nothing about Bitshares or how great it will be out in the media. Then you look at Ethereum and everybody is all excited about  "Turing complete" and everyone drools in admiration. I don't think they have even raised funds yet either.

At any rate, I think we're all just anxious about the success of Bitshares and unfortunately even if you have lost confidence there is nothing you can do other than wait it out if you vested exclusively in AGS.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: onceuponatime on June 24, 2014, 01:05:26 am
There is far too much posting in the main threads by newly registered participants attempting to disrupt rather than contribute. The best way to keep this forum focused would be to have a 30 day waiting period where "newbies" are only allowed to post in a "newbie" thread.

If a newly registered poster has been a "long time lurker",  too bad. Because you might just be a sock puppet inculcating dissent. Or you are a hit and run investor hoping for "pump and dump" style profits and share not of the philosophical underpinnings of III.

Anyone who has been around this forum for months knows in their bones the utter integrity of the Bitshares team. You may not agree with all their decisions, but you know they are attempting to do the best they can for PTS and AGS holders and for the DAC ecosystem.

Some people have a need to tear things down rather than build things up. I personally don't understand that attitude, but hey, it takes all kinds. But it seems to me unwise to allow such people into the main threads until they have at least shown enough persistence to sit through a 30 day waiting period. Most will just gravitate to go on to badmouth other forums where little determination or creativity, and zero positive contribution, is required rather than undergo a 30 day period of learning and reflection.

Thank you for your genius speech ~ but actually some newbies are not real newbies, they may have been on this forum for long time like me.  i don't feel dissapointed since the first day i was with 3I. i have waited for over half a year and gradually lose some of the confidence (not all, but some, about 50% )     :)

i think BM works so hard, and he might be a very talented man, and i think BM is very nice person.  most team members seem to be good.

but it also seems that by now, 3I is not very successful and did not do a very good job that satisfy most people because you can see it through the AGS donation situation and the PTS price.

in recent months,  darkcoin,nxt, blackcoin , bitcoin price perform well, and that means most people satisfy about them
however, 3I is not good enough.
 
sometimes, Chinese people may express their love to someone by critizing them.

as an Chinese saying gose "scold is love"

Sorry, I did not express myself well enough because I was not referring to you. Your posting is very polite and expresses your concern without being too negative.

What I was trying to call attention to is the large number of newbies who on the first day they register and in their first post are expressing very negative opinions on different threads. I was hoping that these people could be held to posting only in the "newbie" section until they have been registered for 30 days because they are causing unnecessary FUD and dissension in the threads.

Some others have stated the opinion that this negativity may be deliberate to drive down the price of PTS just before the launching of the first DAC in order to buy in cheap now and then sell for a quick profit if prices skyrocket upon the pending release. And this is indeed a possiblity.

Is there any harm to confining a newcomer to posting only in the "newbie" section for 30 days while they read the history and become familiar with developments? If they are not sock puppets or manipulators deliberately spreading FUD, and they are indeed new to this forum, this will give them a chance to research and then speak from a greater knowledge base.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: AdamBLevine on June 24, 2014, 03:07:01 am
Yep.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: clout on June 24, 2014, 03:34:59 am
Yep.

Adam you are absolutely useless
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: tianshi on June 24, 2014, 03:55:24 am
There is far too much posting in the main threads by newly registered participants attempting to disrupt rather than contribute. The best way to keep this forum focused would be to have a 30 day waiting period where "newbies" are only allowed to post in a "newbie" thread.

If a newly registered poster has been a "long time lurker",  too bad. Because you might just be a sock puppet inculcating dissent. Or you are a hit and run investor hoping for "pump and dump" style profits and share not of the philosophical underpinnings of III.

Anyone who has been around this forum for months knows in their bones the utter integrity of the Bitshares team. You may not agree with all their decisions, but you know they are attempting to do the best they can for PTS and AGS holders and for the DAC ecosystem.

Some people have a need to tear things down rather than build things up. I personally don't understand that attitude, but hey, it takes all kinds. But it seems to me unwise to allow such people into the main threads until they have at least shown enough persistence to sit through a 30 day waiting period. Most will just gravitate to go on to badmouth other forums where little determination or creativity, and zero positive contribution, is required rather than undergo a 30 day period of learning and reflection.

Thank you for your genius speech ~ but actually some newbies are not real newbies, they may have been on this forum for long time like me.  i don't feel dissapointed since the first day i was with 3I. i have waited for over half a year and gradually lose some of the confidence (not all, but some, about 50% )     :)

i think BM works so hard, and he might be a very talented man, and i think BM is very nice person.  most team members seem to be good.

but it also seems that by now, 3I is not very successful and did not do a very good job that satisfy most people because you can see it through the AGS donation situation and the PTS price.

in recent months,  darkcoin,nxt, blackcoin , bitcoin price perform well, and that means most people satisfy about them
however, 3I is not good enough.
 
sometimes, Chinese people may express their love to someone by critizing them.

as an Chinese saying gose "scold is love"

Sorry, I did not express myself well enough because I was not referring to you. Your posting is very polite and expresses your concern without being too negative.

What I was trying to call attention to is the large number of newbies who on the first day they register and in their first post are expressing very negative opinions on different threads. I was hoping that these people could be held to posting only in the "newbie" section until they have been registered for 30 days because they are causing unnecessary FUD and dissension in the threads.

Some others have stated the opinion that this negativity may be deliberate to drive down the price of PTS just before the launching of the first DAC in order to buy in cheap now and then sell for a quick profit if prices skyrocket upon the pending release. And this is indeed a possiblity.

Is there any harm to confining a newcomer to posting only in the "newbie" section for 30 days while they read the history and become familiar with developments? If they are not sock puppets or manipulators deliberately spreading FUD, and they are indeed new to this forum, this will give them a chance to research and then speak from a greater knowledge base.

I think you are right about newbie part.

And i am quite worried about 3I right now. really worried. it seems that the perfectionism and low excution ability of this team may ruin the whole thing.

no products for over half a year. even a stable wallet?  a stable wallet without any market function!  Everytime when i think of this, i feel i am gonna cry.

And the whole team are still thinking about too many ideas which have no relation about releasing the first functional product- BTS XT.

That's why so many people are overacted yesterday.

 

 

Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: yellowecho on June 24, 2014, 04:00:40 am
no products for over half a year. even a stable wallet?  a stable wallet without any market function!  Everytime when i think of this, i feel i am gonna cry.

 ??? ::)
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: onceuponatime on June 24, 2014, 05:22:16 am
Yep.

here's a guy with 2 posts and joined the forum less than 30 days ago:

 chanlder
Newbie
Posts: 2
Re: What if 'official' Bitshares X* not 100% honor XT ?
« Reply #11 on: Today at 04:35:11 AM »

what 3I fucking doing? I will sell my pts,and the unborn XT.
I ONLY WANTO SAY"FUCK YOU!".
3I,farewell and go to hell.



Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: xeroc on June 24, 2014, 06:52:03 am
Just as a reminder .. BitCoinTalk allows to post everywhere if you have 40+ posts made in the newbie section
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: amencon on June 24, 2014, 08:11:35 am
There is far too much posting in the main threads by newly registered participants attempting to disrupt rather than contribute. The best way to keep this forum focused would be to have a 30 day waiting period where "newbies" are only allowed to post in a "newbie" thread.

If a newly registered poster has been a "long time lurker",  too bad. Because you might just be a sock puppet inculcating dissent. Or you are a hit and run investor hoping for "pump and dump" style profits and share not of the philosophical underpinnings of III.

Anyone who has been around this forum for months knows in their bones the utter integrity of the Bitshares team. You may not agree with all their decisions, but you know they are attempting to do the best they can for PTS and AGS holders and for the DAC ecosystem.

Some people have a need to tear things down rather than build things up. I personally don't understand that attitude, but hey, it takes all kinds. But it seems to me unwise to allow such people into the main threads until they have at least shown enough persistence to sit through a 30 day waiting period. Most will just gravitate to go on to badmouth other forums where little determination or creativity, and zero positive contribution, is required rather than undergo a 30 day period of learning and reflection.
I strongly disagree with this.  I'd be very surprised if "newbie" posts have hindered development progress by much if at all.  I don't think implementing something like this would have much upside for the cost of alienating and introducing large barriers of entry to new interested potential users or investors.

If a new user is spamming then they should be moderated or banned.  Blocking out posters because you might not like what some of them have to say seems like a terrible way to go about things.  If this waiting period was in place when I first joined the forums, it would have been a huge turn-off to me.

I haven't ever seen BM or other core developers really devolve into any kind of a grossly unproductive battle with any unfavorable comments leveled at them.  While technically every second spent on the forums could be instead used for coding, you can't expect them to code 24/7.  Often times you need to stretch your brain and let your subconscious work on problems in the background.

More than ever I see progress and I think it's just a matter of time staying the course until we see some usable products, then everyone can use all that pent up energy and frustration on marketing the hell out of whatever is produced.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: santaclause102 on June 24, 2014, 02:02:59 pm
There is far too much posting in the main threads by newly registered participants attempting to disrupt rather than contribute. The best way to keep this forum focused would be to have a 30 day waiting period where "newbies" are only allowed to post in a "newbie" thread.

If a newly registered poster has been a "long time lurker",  too bad. Because you might just be a sock puppet inculcating dissent. Or you are a hit and run investor hoping for "pump and dump" style profits and share not of the philosophical underpinnings of III.

Anyone who has been around this forum for months knows in their bones the utter integrity of the Bitshares team. You may not agree with all their decisions, but you know they are attempting to do the best they can for PTS and AGS holders and for the DAC ecosystem.

Some people have a need to tear things down rather than build things up. I personally don't understand that attitude, but hey, it takes all kinds. But it seems to me unwise to allow such people into the main threads until they have at least shown enough persistence to sit through a 30 day waiting period. Most will just gravitate to go on to badmouth other forums where little determination or creativity, and zero positive contribution, is required rather than undergo a 30 day period of learning and reflection.

Totally agree with the last two paragraphs.

The Bitshares team is the most idealistic and trustworthy team I know in the space.... I think it is because BM attracts only people that want to also want to work on changing the world....

I also always wondered about the people that have an inherent tendency to tear things down.... They are not productive for them selves. Be friendly to them and they will convert sometimes :)

But I don't agree with excluding people that newly register here from the discussion. Think about what that would communicate: The Bitshares community is a closed group of people that shelter themselves from everyone else (and don't want to share the success). Making more people understand the basics of the Bitshares concept: AGS / the toolkit / DPOS / DACs is one of the most important assets. It is an important reasons to honor AGS / PTS...
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much abou the others
Post by: AdamBLevine on June 24, 2014, 05:38:40 pm
Yep.

here's a guy with 2 posts and joined the forum less than 30 days ago:

 chanlder
Newbie
Posts: 2
Re: What if 'official' Bitshares X* not 100% honor XT ?
« Reply #11 on: Today at 04:35:11 AM »

what 3I fucking doing? I will sell my pts,and the unborn XT.
I ONLY WANTO SAY"FUCK YOU!".
3I,farewell and go to hell.

and I'm to understand you think this is someone who has no interest in PTS or AGS, rather than someone who does in fact have an interest and is unhappy his expectations have now been mis-managed for months and months as the competing players make obvious progress while Invictus is still working on their core infrastructure layer?

Yeah.... It's those newbies causing the problems, you sure nailed the problem with invictus.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: jae208 on June 24, 2014, 09:26:54 pm
"If You're Not Embarrassed By The First Version Of Your Product, You’ve Launched Too Late" -LinkedIn founder Reid Hoffman


Striving for perfection comes at a cost, sure you can take all the time in the world while you perfect your product and release it in 2016 but by then it is too late.

I share the same sentiment as the others, anxiously waiting. People probably wouldn't be all fussy if they at least had the ability to sell their AGS...
Maybe they can I just don't personally know how.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: clout on June 24, 2014, 10:44:15 pm
Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: tonyk on June 24, 2014, 11:28:07 pm
Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!
........

You know what is a trillion dollars!


No human being can actually imagine what a trillion dollars is… most of us cannot imagine a billion dollars, btw.

We know what the number means, but real billion dollars…it is just a number – 1 followed by a bunch of zeroes, not real money !

But this is beside the point go on….
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: jae208 on June 25, 2014, 12:36:28 am
Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.

First of all, I am not Chinese so speaking Chinese will do no good. lol

Some of us have a life outside of this forum and for me personally I am unable to keep up with everything immediately even though I try my best though and I still have confidence in I3. I'm not here to detract I'm here to help in whatever way I can.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: hamiltino on June 25, 2014, 12:37:56 pm
Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.

Emunie is almost complete in its development. It is a currency with no volatility, i think you are over hyping something that is not really there. You are just dreaming. 1 trillion doller market, good luck.

Even so i am going to invest because i think i will ROI pretty easily.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: xeroc on June 25, 2014, 12:50:03 pm
Emunie is not a bank .. you cannot short an asset afaik
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: hamiltino on June 25, 2014, 01:37:30 pm
Emunie is not a bank .. you cannot short an asset afaik

What does shorting assets add to an economy?

Seems like game for traders to make money.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: xeroc on June 25, 2014, 01:57:13 pm
seeing this from feature perspective bitshares has at least one feature that emunie does not ..
what shorting adds to an economy? I am the wrong guy to answer that question .. maybe you should watch the introduction movie?!
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: tonyk on June 25, 2014, 02:55:57 pm
seeing this from feature perspective bitshares has at least one feature that emunie does not ..
what shorting adds to an economy? I am the wrong guy to answer that question .. maybe you should watch the introduction movie?!

Maybe, I will answer this question (short version)

Some market simply cannot exist without one side being short and the other being long.

Examples include futures, options, bitAssets on BTS X.

Those markets provide valuable products:

-BTS X with its bitUSD will provide the advantages of the crypto currencies with the price stability of the dollar.

-Futures – One Important segment of the economy (the one that feed is all literally) - the farmers, also struggle with big movements in the price of their product. Even worst, all of their product comes at the same time. We have all the supply in one month and the demand spread throughout the year. Guess what will happens with the price when for example all the corns come to the market at the same time. Future allow the farmers to fix and hedge their price at a (profitable) chosen by them level and secure that they will get no more no less than that price. They achieve that by going short the required number of futures contract equal to the amount of product they expect to produce.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: AdamBLevine on June 25, 2014, 03:04:28 pm
Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.

i think you are over hyping something that is not really there. You are just dreaming. 1 trillion doller market, good luck.


Clout, the reason you can't re-assure him is because you are just as clueless as he is.  The only thing that can actually solve this situation is for Invictus to deliver.  The complaints are perfectly legitimate, expectations have been very poorly managed and Invictus has done a pretty terrible job executing by any standards they've set for themselves.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: bitbro on June 25, 2014, 03:14:51 pm
If only we had Hoskinson as chief visionary officer; then he would tell ABL the shut the fuck up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: xeroc on June 25, 2014, 03:27:24 pm
Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!

Patience is a virtue and apparently things are not getting translated in Chinese or there is an unnecessary lack of patience within the Chinese Bitshares Community. Either way, I wonder whether or not those who complain about Invictus and there performance up until now are so short sighted that they cannot understand the economic implication of what is being produced here. It seems that you are so short sighted that you would sell stake in something that will have a multi trillion dollar market capitalization for a mere couple thousand dollars. In that case continue your complaining and sell your stake to me. But I suggest you understand that given where we are in our global economic development, particularly understanding that the credit expansion in China will lead to a global downturn of unprecedented proportions, this is the greatest investment that you could have ever made in your lifetime. And to concede to the irrational yet all too present desire to have things immediately when they can be better realized in the future would only serve to make you more bitter later on than you are now.

If you cannot code, then promote. If you cannot promote then invest. If you can do any of those things then with the utmost respect I say to you shut up, because you are not contributing, rather you are detracting from something that is so much bigger than you and I, something that has taken more than a year to produce.

Comparatively speaking bitcoin was several years in the making before the first iterations of a tangible product. In fact when you look at the technology, economists and technologists were predicted the rise of a bitcoin like currency since the late 1990's. For you to not have the patience to wait a year, even two, is tantamount to you not understanding the reality of software development and fully unprecedented technologies, particularly when this technology could mean the eminent realization or loss of millions of dollars.

I wish I could speak Chinese to further assuage your concerns about the development process, but alas I am but an ignorant American. But if my economics courses have taught me anything, it is that Bitshares, not bitcoin, or any other crypto currency network, spells the end of central banking and the government monopoly on force and violence. If my computer science classes have taught me anything, it is that this is a better development team than any other in the space.

I do not pretend to understand your current situation but know that if you hold steadfast and continue to support this community and its development both financially and otherwise the reward is far greater than you could ever fathom.

i think you are over hyping something that is not really there. You are just dreaming. 1 trillion doller market, good luck.


Clout, the reason you can't re-assure him is because you are just as clueless as he is.  The only thing that can actually solve this situation is for Invictus to deliver.  The complaints are perfectly legitimate, expectations have been very poorly managed and Invictus has done a pretty terrible job executing by any standards they've set for themselves.
duplicate content? we all know that already .. get over it
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: AdamBLevine on June 25, 2014, 03:36:45 pm
If you know than why are you still acting like you don't understand? Why are you acting like people with complaints should just get over it and shut up?
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: wesphily on June 25, 2014, 03:40:37 pm
seeing this from feature perspective bitshares has at least one feature that emunie does not ..
what shorting adds to an economy? I am the wrong guy to answer that question .. maybe you should watch the introduction movie?!

Maybe, I will answer this question (short version)

Some market simply cannot exist without one side being short and the other being long.

Examples include futures, options, bitAssets on BTS X.

Those markets provide valuable products:

-BTS X with its bitUSD will provide the advantages of the crypto currencies with the price stability of the dollar.

-Futures – One Important segment of the economy (the one that feed is all literally) - the farmers, also struggle with big movements in the price of their product. Even worst, all of their product comes at the same time. We have all the supply in one month and the demand spread throughout the year. Guess what will happens with the price when for example all the corns come to the market at the same time. Future allow the farmers to fix and hedge their price at a (profitable) chosen by them level and secure that they will get no more no less than that price. They achieve that by going short the required number of futures contract equal to the amount of product they expect to produce.

Another good example is multinational companies hedging against currency exchange rates. If a company operates in Europe and expects the currency to decline in price then they can short their profit so that it does not turns into a loss. A similar thing might be done with bitcoin vs pts vs whatever other currency/commodity.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: tonyk on June 25, 2014, 03:50:21 pm
True - will add it to the main topic I started! Except for cryptos it mostly cannot be done. The world is born ‘long’, somebody needs to provide the tools to make shorting possible.

See you can be supportive and use your brain for good causes!
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: clout on June 25, 2014, 05:14:55 pm
For those of you who say this is not a multi trillion dollar industry. You are simply misinformed banking is exactly that, a multi trillion dollar industry. So a global bank that allows individuals to hold deposits in whatever assets they want and send those assets around the world as easily and as quickly as sending an email trumps all traditional competitors. As far as delivering on a product. I have seen what the team has done thus far and it is substantial. To be honest the hardest part about putting these networks together is not coding but rather designing the system. Bitshares is merely integrating technologies that have been around for a couple decades and should be used ubiquitously throughout all industries already. The competition just doesn't really get the economic implications, which is why I gravitated towards bitshares.

You can complain all you want about development, but if you did not complain before you should not be complaining now when the team is more active than any other in the space. I encourage you to look at other forums and other githubs. You will simply not find a more active community and or development team anywhere else. Also Adam do not tell me I am clueless when you blindly support every team in the crypto space without regard for the talent of their developers or the comparative value of their product. From what I remember you have backed Swarm, MaidSafe, and Mastercoin. All three of which are non-investments. You can only lose money on them and that is not something I needed to discern in retrospect.

I want to get more information on eMunie but at the moment I am not convinced that it is anywhere close to what bitshares has. Firstly, its coded in java which I'm not too keen on. I cannot find its source code and I would never invest in crypto network this is not opensource. I cannot find information on its development team, which I assume is far smaller than bitshares. Also their forum is pretty much non existent. You have to understand that every network is only as good as the community that supports it. Laslty, if you are still trying to invest in "currencies" your in the wrong place. This is about investing in companies.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: yellowecho on June 25, 2014, 07:59:24 pm
For those of you who say this is not a multi trillion dollar industry. You are simply misinformed banking is exactly that, a multi trillion dollar industry. So a global bank that allows individuals to hold deposits in whatever assets they want and send those assets around the world as easily and as quickly as sending an email trumps all traditional competitors. As far as delivering on a product. I have seen what the team has done thus far and it is substantial. To be honest the hardest part about putting these networks together is not coding but rather designing the system. Bitshares is merely integrating technologies that have been around for a couple decades and should be used ubiquitously throughout all industries already. The competition just doesn't really get the economic implications, which is why I gravitated towards bitshares.
+5%
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: bytemaster on June 25, 2014, 08:39:17 pm
If you know than why are you still acting like you don't understand? Why are you acting like people with complaints should just get over it and shut up?

What we need is people getting involved and helping, not standing around complaining.

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs455.snc4/50494_2204464871_5432_n.jpg)

Obviously we are people and more transparent than most and thus easier targets.   That said no one wants this done faster and better than our team and if we had a way to make it better we would.   

So I think what people are really saying is this is a team effort and you can support the effort with your time, skills, money, and positive support.   Positive suggestions and initiative are what is necessary.   If you think someone thinks they can code something faster then do it and I will support them 100%.

Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: Ggozzo on June 25, 2014, 10:04:05 pm
If you know than why are you still acting like you don't understand? Why are you acting like people with complaints should just get over it and shut up?

What we need is people getting involved and helping, not standing around complaining.

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs455.snc4/50494_2204464871_5432_n.jpg)

Obviously we are people and more transparent than most and thus easier targets.   That said no one wants this done faster and better than our team and if we had a way to make it better we would.   

So I think what people are really saying is this is a team effort and you can support the effort with your time, skills, money, and positive support.   Positive suggestions and initiative are what is necessary.   If you think someone thinks they can code something faster then do it and I will support them 100%.

I'd like to help, just waiting for the windows GUI.

I suspect a lot of the people complaining are waiting on the same thing.

"Idle hands are the Devil's workshop"
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: jae208 on June 26, 2014, 01:29:12 am
 +5% on windows GUI

Unfortunately,  not everyone has all of their daily living expenses covered by crowd funded money and so don't have the same amount of free time to focus on this all day.

The thing is that while I am very confident that Bitshares will be executed successfuly there is still that possibility that it won't and so I'm not going to put all my eggs into this one basket. Maybe that will change once there is at least one successful DAC.

Also, given that I am not a salaried I3 or DAC employee it makes much more sense for me to just wait, be a freeloader and say less.

The reason I wrote about how it would be nice to be able to sell AGS is because the inability to do so makes 'investors' take on a greater share of the risk than I3 employees/founders. Suppose things were to go south you're screwed and there would be nothing you could do.

At any rate, I'm really not pessimistic about the progress so far and I look forward to the coming weeks and months.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: clout on June 26, 2014, 03:18:27 am
there is simply no one that has taken on more risk than the founders
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: bytemaster on June 26, 2014, 04:08:52 am
+5% on windows GUI

Latest test net has windows GUI...
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: Ggozzo on June 26, 2014, 04:34:01 am
+5% on windows GUI

Latest test net has windows GUI...

Do you have a link?
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: bytemaster on June 26, 2014, 04:34:38 am
Dry run 6 thread


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Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: Ggozzo on June 26, 2014, 04:41:36 am
Dry run 6 thread


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Downloaded it. Run it. I get a Blue window that says loading configuration, then it closes and nothing happens. I dont want to clog the other thread with this, which is probably trivial, but I cant figure out what is going on. It did this for the last windows GUI too. For me that is.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: Tuck Fheman on June 26, 2014, 06:01:27 am
Why do you wait when we are actively testing the network? To say that they have not produced a product is to not understand the nature of the product they are producing. First and foremost, over the past 4 weeks or so there have been 5 iterations of test networks each becoming successively better in the same way that each of BM's realizations about designing theses systems has become successively better. The true impediment both in design and development was shaking off the popular misconception that these system are reliant upon math and not fundamentally human interaction. When you understand that you can automate a shareholder run company using p2p open source network the possibilities abound and you realize that the competitors that many have cited in this thread and others are not competitors at all. No one is doing what Bitshares is doing. It is not about perfection, it is simply about realizing what has made companies successful for thousands of year hitherto. When you put those characteristics on a blockchain you realize that we are upon the precipice of the Napster of finance and every other industry that uses internet for its operation. Sean Parker once said "A million dollars isn't cool. You know what is? A billion dollars." Well I say to you now a billion dollars isn't cool. You know what is a trillion dollars!
........

You know what is a trillion dollars!


No human being can actually imagine what a trillion dollars is… most of us cannot imagine a billion dollars, btw.

We know what the number means, but real billion dollars…it is just a number – 1 followed by a bunch of zeroes, not real money !

But this is beside the point go on….

(http://journalofamadman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/trillion_.gif)
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: merockstar on June 26, 2014, 10:36:20 pm
I used to work in a payday loan place where I had to handle what (to me) was an awful lot of money. (I was a dough hoe)

That dinky stack does not look like a million to me. It doesn't even look like 100,000. Even if it's all in hundreds.

(http://journalofamadman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/trillion_.gif)
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: cass on June 26, 2014, 10:52:02 pm
Dry run 6 thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

+5
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: bytemaster on June 26, 2014, 10:55:03 pm
Dry run 6 thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Downloaded it. Run it. I get a Blue window that says loading configuration, then it closes and nothing happens. I dont want to clog the other thread with this, which is probably trivial, but I cant figure out what is going on. It did this for the last windows GUI too. For me that is.

Yes it is probably shutting down because of files left over from the last Dry Run...   Look for the BitShares XTS directory on your system and delete it.  It should be where ever windows apps store their data files by default.  Post in the other thread for help.
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: bitbro on June 26, 2014, 11:02:32 pm

For those of you who say this is not a multi trillion dollar industry. You are simply misinformed banking is exactly that, a multi trillion dollar industry. So a global bank that allows individuals to hold deposits in whatever assets they want and send those assets around the world as easily and as quickly as sending an email trumps all traditional competitors. As far as delivering on a product. I have seen what the team has done thus far and it is substantial. To be honest the hardest part about putting these networks together is not coding but rather designing the system. Bitshares is merely integrating technologies that have been around for a couple decades and should be used ubiquitously throughout all industries already. The competition just doesn't really get the economic implications, which is why I gravitated towards bitshares.

You can complain all you want about development, but if you did not complain before you should not be complaining now when the team is more active than any other in the space. I encourage you to look at other forums and other githubs. You will simply not find a more active community and or development team anywhere else. Also Adam do not tell me I am clueless when you blindly support every team in the crypto space without regard for the talent of their developers or the comparative value of their product. From what I remember you have backed Swarm, MaidSafe, and Mastercoin. All three of which are non-investments. You can only lose money on them and that is not something I needed to discern in retrospect.

I want to get more information on eMunie but at the moment I am not convinced that it is anywhere close to what bitshares has. Firstly, its coded in java which I'm not too keen on. I cannot find its source code and I would never invest in crypto network this is not opensource. I cannot find information on its development team, which I assume is far smaller than bitshares. Also their forum is pretty much non existent. You have to understand that every network is only as good as the community that supports it. Laslty, if you are still trying to invest in "currencies" your in the wrong place. This is about investing in companies.

+ 5% to the ABL crucifixion


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please, make something and stop thinking too much about the others
Post by: Tuck Fheman on June 27, 2014, 03:01:37 am
I used to work in a payday loan place where I had to handle what (to me) was an awful lot of money. (I was a dough hoe)

That dinky stack does not look like a million to me. It doesn't even look like 100,000. Even if it's all in hundreds.

It's 100 packets of $10,000 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/what-does-one-trillion-dollars-look-like/12754).