BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: Agent86 on August 26, 2014, 06:17:32 pm
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BitUSD should only be brought newly into existence when it is trading above the value of USD (extra demand for the extra benefits of the bitAsset version of BitUSD)
I suggest we use feeds to set a floor for shorting bitUSD. You can short but it won't be matched with buy orders unless it is above the median feed price. You can let the market otherwise operate freely and still use the moving average to trigger margin calls.
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market is out of control of the delegates ... 1h moving average took over .. feeds are worthless now .. (at least that is my understanding of the ignition of the market)
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market is out of control of the delegates ... 1h moving average took over .. feeds are worthless now .. (at least that is my understanding of the ignition of the market)
I'm suggesting we revisit this policy and take a different approach.
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BitUSD should only be brought newly into existence when it is trading above the value of USD (extra demand for the extra benefits of the bitAsset version of BitUSD)
I suggest we use feeds to set a floor for shorting bitUSD. You can short but it won't be matched with buy orders unless it is above the median feed price. You can let the market otherwise operate freely and still use the moving average to trigger margin calls.
Here is my take on the problem. The problem is the Bitshares X interface. All of my problems have been with the interface and not with the market technology itself.
1) The interface should alert us to opportunities based on either our trading patterns or our trading mode which we select.
2) We should not be expected to "know what to do" when events happen. We have to be guided by signals and most of us will take a good profit opportunity if we know it exists and know how.
So in my opinion priority number 1 should be to improve the interface so that opportunities signal to the user in the GUI, or to their email, SMS, or whatever they provide the client.
For example I might want the client to send an instant message to me on Skype and tell me I'm missing an arbitrage opportunity. This would be simple to write as it's just a bot (a simple script) but it's not clear how to go about automating things like that. We need instructions, scripts, bots, better signalling, there is a lot which goes into a good exchange.
tl;dr
The interface has to do a better job relaying information about the market and signalling market participants of profit opportunities. The sad fact is we are missing profit opportunities because of lag in the time to discover them.
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So in my opinion priority number 1 should be to improve the interface so that opportunities signal to the user in the GUI, or to their email, SMS, or whatever they provide the client.
There will be .. afaik it is under HEAVY DEVELOPMENT ... and Brian promised that it will be a TRADING software rather than a wallet ..
All I know "cass" is working on it .. and that can only mean, interface will be AWESOME ...
anyway .. i linked your proposals in a message to cass and brian .. just in case they did not yet have that on the todo list
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I know the "purists" don't like it, but we need to use the price feeds guys. We need to use the median price feed as a floor for new issuance. Without the price feeds it doesn't work!
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I'm slightly confused, hasn't the peg been following pretty closely currently without the feeds?
And this is only just over 24 hours in.
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I do not know if I am purist or not but:
Trading bitUSD based on feeds is just plan B, in case the true market does not work.
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I know the "purists" don't like it, but we need to use the price feeds guys. We need to use the median price feed as a floor for new issuance. Without the price feeds it doesn't work!
Nyet to price feeds!! Let the free market inside BitShares reign and remain FREE. Don't like the prices, don't place an order.
User interface does need improving and simplifying but I think there is a limit to how much you can expect it to make a profit for you.
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For the fact that it is not tracking perfecrly now to be evidence that you need feeds you would have to explain why you wouldnt see undervalued usd at this point with feeds. There has not yet been any event that whose outcome would have depended on what the feeds said assuming they were sourced from bter and btc38
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I do not know if I am purist or not but:
Trading bitUSD based on feeds is just plan B, in case the true market does not work.
It is still based on market forces, the only thing I am changing is that you can't issue new bitUSD (short it into existance) at a price below the actual value of a dollar. It makes no sense for us to issue more bitUSD when there is an abundance that is pushes the price below parity. Without feeds it doesn't work. And the price feeds are designed in a very good way so they are very difficult to manipulate.
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For the fact that it is not tracking perfecrly now to be evidence that you need feeds you would have to explain why you wouldnt see undervalued usd at this point with feeds. There has not yet been any event that whose outcome would have depended on what the feeds said assuming they were sourced from bter and btc38
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Using feeds as a floor for initial shorts would make the price track very well. The reason the price is undervalued is because people are allowed to short it into existence below the actual value of a dollar.
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For the fact that it is not tracking perfecrly now to be evidence that you need feeds you would have to explain why you wouldnt see undervalued usd at this point with feeds. There has not yet been any event that whose outcome would have depended on what the feeds said assuming they were sourced from bter and btc38
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Using feeds as a floor for initial shorts would make the price track very well. The reason the price is undervalued is because people are allowed to short it into existence below the actual value of a dollar.
But why are people doing that? Their must some potential financial gain that they are looking for? Is their strategy invalid or are they just crazy people?
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So? These are people who would still short at a dollar. They have to pay more so there would be some percentage fewer usd but they would still be selling and pushing the bids down. Why would it suddenly track?
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So? These are people who would still short at a dollar. They have to pay more so there would be some percentage fewer usd but they would still be selling and pushing the bids down. Why would it suddenly track?
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Well if they're shorting at a dollar then the price of bitUSD is now a dollar (what we want)
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I know the "purists" don't like it, but we need to use the price feeds guys. We need to use the median price feed as a floor for new issuance. Without the price feeds it doesn't work!
Sounds like a great idea! The ends justify the means..
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So? These are people who would still short at a dollar. They have to pay more so there would be some percentage fewer usd but they would still be selling and pushing the bids down. Why would it suddenly track?
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Well if they're shorting at a dollar then the price of bitUSD is now a dollar (what we want)
It costs a dollar to buy but you cannot sell it for a dollar. Having the shorts who are shorting undervalued now pay 10% more to take those shorts would not make them all want to stop taking out shorts and trying to find people to buy it. I think the order book would look almost the same except near the lowest asks it would be just asks instead of asks mixed with shorts, and there would be *only slightly* less selling overall - in proportion to the effective fee they're paying
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Give the market time to develop. Most of the people who are using it right now were hot on BTSX. What we need to do is promote the heck out of BitUSD and find ways for people to spend it, etc.
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Give the market time to develop. Most of the people who are using it right now were hot on BTSX. What we need to do is promote the heck out of BitUSD and find ways for people to spend it, etc.
+5%
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Give the market time to develop. Most of the people who are using it right now were hot on BTSX. What we need to do is promote the heck out of BitUSD and find ways for people to spend it, etc.
Real quick I know that this particular instance of BitUSD doesn't offer +5% but does anyone know when BitUSD will offer +5%?
BTW BitUSD is worth about $0.90 right now shouldn't people be buying it up right now since it is 'cheap'
Also, why would people be shorting right now when it seems to make more sense to buy BitUSD right now?
*I'm buying BitUSD right now and it is about $0.92 now.
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I do not know if I am purist or not but:
Trading bitUSD based on feeds is just plan B, in case the true market does not work.
It is still based on market forces, the only thing I am changing is that you can't issue new bitUSD (short it into existance) at a price below the actual value of a dollar. It makes no sense for us to issue more bitUSD when there is an abundance that is pushes the price below parity. Without feeds it doesn't work. And the price feeds are designed in a very good way so they are very difficult to manipulate.
Excuse me, this is simply not true - one can not issue bitUSD without a buyer!
So, WE are not issuing them, the market is!
So let's stop this 'unreasonable market'
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Arbitrage is already getting tighter. Stop jumping the gun. It's working.
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Give the market time to develop. Most of the people who are using it right now were hot on BTSX. What we need to do is promote the heck out of BitUSD and find ways for people to spend it, etc.
Real quick I know that this particular instance of BitUSD doesn't offer +5% but does anyone know when BitUSD will offer +5%?
BTW BitUSD is worth about $0.90 right now shouldn't people be buying it up right now since it is 'cheap'
Also, why would people be shorting right now when it seems to make more sense to buy BitUSD right now?
What Donkey said, most of the people are (super) bullish on BTSX. The simple accurate reason.
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Give the market time to develop. Most of the people who are using it right now were hot on BTSX. What we need to do is promote the heck out of BitUSD and find ways for people to spend it, etc.
Real quick I know that this particular instance of BitUSD doesn't offer +5% but does anyone know when BitUSD will offer +5%?
BTW BitUSD is worth about $0.90 right now shouldn't people be buying it up right now since it is 'cheap'
Also, why would people be shorting right now when it seems to make more sense to buy BitUSD right now?
What Donkey said, most of the people are (super) bullish on BTSX. The simple accurate reason.
Right, but value of BTSX is currently going down..
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Give the market time to develop. Most of the people who are using it right now were hot on BTSX. What we need to do is promote the heck out of BitUSD and find ways for people to spend it, etc.
Real quick I know that this particular instance of BitUSD doesn't offer +5% but does anyone know when BitUSD will offer +5%?
BTW BitUSD is worth about $0.90 right now shouldn't people be buying it up right now since it is 'cheap'
Also, why would people be shorting right now when it seems to make more sense to buy BitUSD right now?
What Donkey said, most of the people are (super) bullish on BTSX. The simple accurate reason.
Right, but value of BTSX is currently going down..
Right but maybe they have a long-term view.
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So? These are people who would still short at a dollar. They have to pay more so there would be some percentage fewer usd but they would still be selling and pushing the bids down. Why would it suddenly track?
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Well if they're shorting at a dollar then the price of bitUSD is now a dollar (what we want)
It costs a dollar to buy but you cannot sell it for a dollar. Having the shorts who are shorting undervalued now pay 10% more to take those shorts would not make them all want to stop taking out shorts and trying to find people to buy it. I think the order book would look almost the same except near the lowest asks it would be just asks instead of asks mixed with shorts, and there would be *only slightly* less selling overall - in proportion to the effective fee they're paying
I think you're wrong. Skype me.
I think anyone who cares about BTSX should NOT short bitUSD right now (at least not below dollar value).
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So? These are people who would still short at a dollar. They have to pay more so there would be some percentage fewer usd but they would still be selling and pushing the bids down. Why would it suddenly track?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Well if they're shorting at a dollar then the price of bitUSD is now a dollar (what we want)
It costs a dollar to buy but you cannot sell it for a dollar. Having the shorts who are shorting undervalued now pay 10% more to take those shorts would not make them all want to stop taking out shorts and trying to find people to buy it. I think the order book would look almost the same except near the lowest asks it would be just asks instead of asks mixed with shorts, and there would be *only slightly* less selling overall - in proportion to the effective fee they're paying
I think you're wrong. Skype me.
I think anyone who cares about BTSX should NOT short bitUSD right now (at least not WELL below dollar value).
Bolded is the statement that I can agree with (especially well below dollar value).
And I do care about BTSX, and I am probably more bullish on BTSX than such reckless bulls.
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BitUSD is about $0.95
I think we need more speculator playing this game right now.
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Which is pretty good considering the market isn't very old. As more people come on board performing arbitrage that will go even closer to parity.
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Wow 8)
BitUSD is $0.99 now 8)
I cashed some BTSX into BitUSD now I just need a place to spend it or wait for BTSX to drop so I can buy some with BitUSD and make profit.
Can't really save in BitUSD as it doesn't offer interest either.