BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bytemaster on November 20, 2013, 09:09:50 am
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I have a theory that turning mining into a lottery ticket with a life-changing payout disproportional to the odds of winning would result in an increase in the number of solo-miners. These miners don't mine for the steady $30/month they could get from constant pool mining, but for the off chance that they could win the million dollar jackpot. The existence of the jackpot would not change those who traditionally mine in pools because they would have to divide the jackpot among everyone in the pool and thus not be life-changing. However, once the pot for the lottery grew large enough they would defect from pools in a bid to win big.
This will also change the trust relationship with pools. Suppose an normally honest pool operator suddenly wins big, do you trust him to divide it among his pool members?
So here is how you would modify ProtoShares to enable a lottery base mining reward:
1) the value of a coinbase transaction is not known until the block hash is found.
2) calculate ratio (R) of block_difficulty / target_difficulty which should be a number greater than 1
3) if R > 100 && < 1000 then R = 100
4) if R <= 100 then
COINBASE = MIN_BLOCK_REWARD * R
POT += 100 * MIN_BLOCK_REWARD - COINBASE
5) else R > 1000
COINBASE = 0.5 * POT
POT -= COINBASE
This system should result in a POT that constantly grows with a predictable maximum average inflation rate.
Now assuming this coin had other utility and thus a non-0 value, then this incentive structure would motivate gamblers to solo-mine... for the benefit of the large payout. The higher the value of the pot the more miners would solo-mine. If no-one solo-mines then the reward system is little different than current coins using large pools. By this theory I conclude the result is more decentralized.
Now to make this a free-standing DAC you must create a demand for the coins so that can be achieved by adjusting the payout of the POT proportional to the number of PowerBall shares are held at the coinbase address. 0 shares results in 0 payout and the more shares you own the larger the cut of the payout you get but never exceeding 50%.
As a free-standing system this coin will only be of interest to gamblers and the value of the POT will be proportional to the demand for the coin. You buy the coin so you can gamble on getting more coins by mining and selling your winnings to future gamblers!
If you don't solo-mine then your profits are limited to the appreciation of the coin and a small margin above electric costs. If you solo-mine however, then you could win big in a life-changing way :)
Thoughts?
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This is a great idea, but it hinges very heavily on the coins having a practical use. Any ideas what that could be?
Edit: Also, the idea of the pot payout depending on the coins already at the address is a great idea to help encourage adoption among people trying to mine the coin, but not among people looking for a use for the coin
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sounds like a great idea ... a great benefit for solominers surely
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Let's experiment then.
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This is a great idea, but it hinges very heavily on the coins having a practical use. Any ideas what that could be?
Edit: Also, the idea of the pot payout depending on the coins already at the address is a great idea to help encourage adoption among people trying to mine the coin, but not among people looking for a use for the coin
Well, if it were a real corporation, the corporation would keep half of the proceeds for itself and award the other half in some structured array of big and little prizes. It would then pay out those profits to its shareholders. That would be one reason to hold the shares - as a simple investor in a for-profit enterprise.
So, if like any DAC you could either mine or buy your lottery tickets, er, I mean, PowerShares. This implies that perhaps PowerShareholders should have a chance to win too. Then there would two reasons to buy PowerShares:
- As a currency for playing the lottery
- As stock in the business that runs the lottery
There could also be two reasons for only little guys to mine:
- To earn a steady paycheck in PowerShares useful for either of the above reasons
- To have a chance to win an "employee jackpot" useful for either of the above reasons
Do I sell my winnings or double down by holding them for a chance to win bigger?
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Let's experiment then.
I am willing to pay someone to create this provided it honors the holders of ProtoShares in the genesis block. I am looking for a full-time DAC developer that can quickly put together interesting new DACs like this to experiment with various incentive models. I will offer a 1 BTC referral bounty to anyone who can give me a lead that results in the hiring of someone with the skills necessary to develop variations on Bitcoin in a rapid manner.
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This is a great idea, but it hinges very heavily on the coins having a practical use. Any ideas what that could be?
Edit: Also, the idea of the pot payout depending on the coins already at the address is a great idea to help encourage adoption among people trying to mine the coin, but not among people looking for a use for the coin
Well, if it were a real corporation, the corporation would keep half of the proceeds for itself and award the other half in some structured array of big and little prizes. It would then pay out those profits to its shareholders. That would be one reason to hold the shares - as a simple investor in a for-profit enterprise.
So, if like any DAC you could either mine or buy your lottery tickets, er, I mean, PowerShares. This implies that perhaps PowerShareholders should have a chance to win too. Then there would two reasons to buy PowerShares:
- As a currency for playing the lottery
- As stock in the business that runs the lottery
There could also be two reasons for only little guys to mine:
- To earn a steady paycheck in PowerShares useful for either of the above reasons
- To have a chance to win an "employee jackpot" useful for either of the above reasons
Do I sell my winnings or double down by holding them for a chance to win bigger?
So by holding onto my powershares, I can earn dividends from the lottery rewards, or I could sell them to make money immediately.
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This is a great idea, but it hinges very heavily on the coins having a practical use. Any ideas what that could be?
Edit: Also, the idea of the pot payout depending on the coins already at the address is a great idea to help encourage adoption among people trying to mine the coin, but not among people looking for a use for the coin
Well, if it were a real corporation, the corporation would keep half of the proceeds for itself and award the other half in some structured array of big and little prizes. It would then pay out those profits to its shareholders. That would be one reason to hold the shares - as a simple investor in a for-profit enterprise.
So, if like any DAC you could either mine or buy your lottery tickets, er, I mean, PowerShares. This implies that perhaps PowerShareholders should have a chance to win too. Then there would two reasons to buy PowerShares:
- As a currency for playing the lottery
- As stock in the business that runs the lottery
There could also be two reasons for only little guys to mine:
- To earn a steady paycheck in PowerShares useful for either of the above reasons
- To have a chance to win an "employee jackpot" useful for either of the above reasons
Do I sell my winnings or double down by holding them for a chance to win bigger?
So by holding onto my powershares, I can earn dividends from the lottery rewards, or I could sell them to make money immediately.
... and be eligible for the ticketholder, er, shareholder jackpot as well.
PowerShares could be like season tickets for the lottery. As long as you hold them the full period between each jackpot, you are eligible for every new shareholder jackpot event.
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This is a great idea, but it hinges very heavily on the coins having a practical use. Any ideas what that could be?
Edit: Also, the idea of the pot payout depending on the coins already at the address is a great idea to help encourage adoption among people trying to mine the coin, but not among people looking for a use for the coin
Well, if it were a real corporation, the corporation would keep half of the proceeds for itself and award the other half in some structured array of big and little prizes. It would then pay out those profits to its shareholders. That would be one reason to hold the shares - as a simple investor in a for-profit enterprise.
So, if like any DAC you could either mine or buy your lottery tickets, er, I mean, PowerShares. This implies that perhaps PowerShareholders should have a chance to win too. Then there would two reasons to buy PowerShares:
- As a currency for playing the lottery
- As stock in the business that runs the lottery
There could also be two reasons for only little guys to mine:
- To earn a steady paycheck in PowerShares useful for either of the above reasons
- To have a chance to win an "employee jackpot" useful for either of the above reasons
Do I sell my winnings or double down by holding them for a chance to win bigger?
So by holding onto my powershares, I can earn dividends from the lottery rewards, or I could sell them to make money immediately.
... and be eligible for the ticketholder, er, shareholder jackpot as well.
Is the shareholder jackpot separate from the miners jackpot?
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Why not? The company can balance the products it offers to achieve multiple goals as long as it results in a profit for powershareholders.
Incentivize people to keep mining and keep holding their winnings as both players and owners.
(This gives those of us who are too sophisticated to play the lotto an excuse to buy PowerShares as an investment, you see...)
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PowerBall, DAC is a lottery within a lottery.
We are using it to test out concepts for lottery-based mining by implementing an Unmanned Lottery Company whose lottery tickets are PowerShares themselves.
And ProtoShare holders start out with a matching set of PowerShares as a share in the DAC and a share in the recurring chances to win - thereby demonstrating to one and all how ProtoShares will actually work.
Absolutely poetic!
:)
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Very interesting. Of course like any good investment there will be different strategies, such as holding all mined shares, selling some of them, or even buying more than you can mine
So here is how you would modify ProtoShares to enable a lottery base mining reward:
1) the value of a coinbase transaction is not known until the block hash is found.
2) calculate ratio (R) of block_difficulty / target_difficulty which should be a number greater than 1
3) if R > 100 && < 1000 then R = 100
4) if R <= 100 then
COINBASE = MIN_BLOCK_REWARD * R
POT += 100 * MIN_BLOCK_REWARD - COINBASE
5) else R > 1000
COINBASE = 0.5 * POT
POT -= COINBASE
I have a feeling that there will also be different strategies in mining, ranging from mine out a block then release it asap, to continuing to mine to try to hit a higher reward.
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PowerBall, DAC is a lottery within a lottery.
We are using it to test out concepts for lottery-based mining by implementing an Unmanned Lottery Company whose lottery tickets are PowerShares themselves.
And ProtoShare holders start out with a matching set of PowerShares as a share in the DAC and a share in the recurring chances to win - thereby demonstrating to one and all how ProtoShares will actually work.
Absolutely poetic!
:)
As a holder of ProtoShares do I automatically get a piece of the action of the Powerball DAC with no action required? If this is the case than I'm starting to understand the value of being a PTS owner.
Once someone wins and the DAC pays out its shareholders their cut how would that payment look? Would I need a separate wallet for PowerShares or would I receive an amount of PTS to my existing wallet/address?
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PowerBall, DAC is a lottery within a lottery.
We are using it to test out concepts for lottery-based mining by implementing an Unmanned Lottery Company whose lottery tickets are PowerShares themselves.
And ProtoShare holders start out with a matching set of PowerShares as a share in the DAC and a share in the recurring chances to win - thereby demonstrating to one and all how ProtoShares will actually work.
Absolutely poetic!
:)
As a holder of ProtoShares do I automatically get a piece of the action of the Powerball DAC with no action required? If this is the case than I'm starting to understand the value of being a PTS owner.
Once someone wins and the DAC pays out its shareholders their cut how would that payment look? Would I need a separate wallet for PowerShares or would I receive an amount of PTS to my existing wallet/address?
My understanding is that you would download the Powerball DAC wallet, and then you import your PTS wallet data into it, and you get your Powerball shares. Then, you do indeed get the dividends from people winning the lottery, but you get them in Powerball shares. It's up to you to decide whether to keep them for a better chance of winning and more dividends, or to sell them for BTC/PTS
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PowerBall, DAC is a lottery within a lottery.
We are using it to test out concepts for lottery-based mining by implementing an Unmanned Lottery Company whose lottery tickets are PowerShares themselves.
And ProtoShare holders start out with a matching set of PowerShares as a share in the DAC and a share in the recurring chances to win - thereby demonstrating to one and all how ProtoShares will actually work.
Absolutely poetic!
:)
As a holder of ProtoShares do I automatically get a piece of the action of the Powerball DAC with no action required? If this is the case than I'm starting to understand the value of being a PTS owner.
Once someone wins and the DAC pays out its shareholders their cut how would that payment look? Would I need a separate wallet for PowerShares or would I receive an amount of PTS to my existing wallet/address?
Yes, if the implementer of this DAC agrees to honor the ProtoShares Social Contract. That would of course be a condition for Invictus to sponsor it, which bytemaster has offered to do under those terms.
Winnings would be paid out according to the terms of the final lottery design and published rules.
They would automagically show up with all your other shares/coins in your Keyhotee wallet and presumably any compliant third party wallets.
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Interesting. Since the DAC genesis block would be poured from the ProtoShares block chain it seems a PTS holder would be getting a piece of the action right from day one even if they didn't do the import until later. Cool.
Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
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Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!
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Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!
Maybe I'll start buying some up 8). Given the potential they seem dirt cheap right now.
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Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!
Maybe I'll start buying some up 8). Given the potential they seem dirt cheap right now.
I completely agree, they're worth so much more than they're trading for right now
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Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!
Maybe I'll start buying some up 8). Given the potential they seem dirt cheap right now.
I completely agree, they're worth so much more than they're trading for right now
People are discounting the price until they see something. So I think this loto-chain will be a great way to demonstrate both the value of PTS and test new ideas prior to BitShares being released. I think it has potential in its own right as a multi-million dollar market-cap alt-coin.
Some people have worried that we are stretching ourself to thin and not focusing. I want to make it very clear that our main development team will be focused on BitShares / Keyhotee and we are going to outsource development of some of our experimental DACs to third parties who will manage it all. We have earned enough from PTS already to fund this ALT coin and I suspect it will more than pay for itself if it is even moderately successful. Each time we learn more and these learning experiences make our future DACs better.
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Interesting. Since the DAC genesis block would be poured from the ProtoShares block chain it seems a PTS holder would be getting a piece of the action right from day one even if they didn't do the import until later. Cool.
Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
Yes, and you don't have to "spend" your PTS, you get a clone of whatever shares you hold as shares in the new DAC as well. Both. And again and again and...
Owning ProtoShares is owning rights to all future DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract. All Invictus sponsored DACs will do so. We hope others will adopt our community that way too.
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Let's experiment then.
I am willing to pay someone to create this provided it honors the holders of ProtoShares in the genesis block. I am looking for a full-time DAC developer that can quickly put together interesting new DACs like this to experiment with various incentive models. I will offer a 1 BTC referral bounty to anyone who can give me a lead that results in the hiring of someone with the skills necessary to develop variations on Bitcoin in a rapid manner.
What skill set are you looking for in this developer? Also, what other positions are you looking for?
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The ideal candidate is someone who has already implemented a fully functioning crypto-currency. Bytemaster will personally provide the training required beyond that foundation.
Or you can simply be brilliant enough to implement a working prototype from scratch and plunk it down on bytemaster's desktop as a fiat accompli before he can hire someone with the above credentials.
My apologies if I offended anyone by using the four-letter word "fiat". :)
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this concept will really impress small time miners who just mine in the background for fun. Either they win nothing or something big.
and it also bring in new user base to DAC system itself who buy in powerball shares as an investment portfolio to get dividends.
But beware
the jackpot concept was already intorduced in Starcoins, but the coin itself lost its value after a period of time
But it all works only if the new DAC is considered much of a value. so rather to create a new DAC it would be bettter to implement the concept in Bitshares itself which has been considered to value high even before its launch. In this way the the existing bitshare concept would complement the jackpot and also the vice-versa.
And in the end we'll have a single DAC which has been awaited with high value will gain more popularity and perish with new user base of solominers and small time investors.
my opinion is that the scrypt-coin segment(except for litecoin) lost its value only because too many new coins were rushed. we really do not want tht kind to happen here.
a slow and steady set of DACs would help the users to choose which to opt rather than confusing them with too many options
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I think you are right about too-many DACs. If such a DAC were to be released it would be as a TEST NETWORK to test the mechanics and not as a speculative play in its own right.
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Interesting. Since the DAC genesis block would be poured from the ProtoShares block chain it seems a PTS holder would be getting a piece of the action right from day one even if they didn't do the import until later. Cool.
Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
Yes, and you don't have to "spend" your PTS, you get a clone of whatever shares you hold as shares in the new DAC as well. Both. And again and again and...
Owning ProtoShares is owning rights to all future DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract. All Invictus sponsored DACs will do so. We hope others will adopt our community that way too.
So in a round about way PTS has a proof of stake type behavior based around a social contract? is it fair to compere it to proof of stake or is there a better metaphor?
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Interesting. Since the DAC genesis block would be poured from the ProtoShares block chain it seems a PTS holder would be getting a piece of the action right from day one even if they didn't do the import until later. Cool.
Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
Yes, and you don't have to "spend" your PTS, you get a clone of whatever shares you hold as shares in the new DAC as well. Both. And again and again and...
Owning ProtoShares is owning rights to all future DACs that honor the ProtoShares Social Contract. All Invictus sponsored DACs will do so. We hope others will adopt our community that way too.
So in a round about way PTS has a proof of stake type behavior based around a social contract? is it fair to compere it to proof of stake or is there a better metaphor?
I wouldn’t call it a proof of stake in the traditional sense because it is a one-time event at genesis that is performed by the developer as a social contract not by miners in the block chain.
ProtoShares was conceived with a number of objectives.
• A way to separate investing in an idea from investing in one or more implementations of the idea.
• An incentive for competitors to cooperate on building an implementation because they are all stakeholders in the idea.
• A way to vet an idea and attract venture capitalists based upon prediction market evidence that the idea has value.
• A way for developers to invest in an idea and raise funding by generating growth from showing more and more evidence that they will successfully implement the idea in a way that benefits investors in the idea.
• A way for someone with a good idea but lacking the ability to implement it to share it and benefit from its ultimate implementation by somebody else.
• A way for an entire community to participate in “pre-mining” in a way that might be deemed fair (e.g. for DACs that must start out with enough currency to operate and enough credibility to get listed on exchanges from Day One.)
• A more graceful “soft fork” way to upgrade to version two of a DAC by instantiating the new in parallel with the old and let the owners (shareholders) not just the employees (miners) decide when and if value transitions from the old to the new.
• A way to build a community and get them to cooperate on the implementation because they all have a stake in the idea.
Here’s the biggie: If a currency backed by the services of an unmanned company like Bitcoin makes sense, then a currency backed by the potential of an entire product line of unmanned companies should be much stronger, and eventually one backed by the potential of an entire industry would be even more robust, stable and valuable.
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I think you are right about too-many DACs. If such a DAC were to be released it would be as a TEST NETWORK to test the mechanics and not as a speculative play in its own right.
Too many from one source could be tragic, but implementing one to work in a different way that it had previously operated should be ok to do many times over, I kind of hope you could launch a test network, you do have quite a few volunteers for beta testing :) I am in, I just hope a test network wont draw to many away from the main focus.
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Definitely an interesting idea. I read somewhere about a percentage of bets being able to be stored as "savings" for people both when they lose and when they win. It is a User Option that needs to be set up. Perhaps it would not be a bad idea in this case?
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Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!
My question is: why do people who decide to develop DAC want to honor PTS, or why even Invictus Innovation want to honor PTS at all (besides marketing PTS at early stage)?
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Second question...which is more about the nature of ProtoShares: If I import my PTS privkey into the PowerBall DAC wallet have I "spent" by PTS or just gained access to a clone of them in the form of Powerball DAC shares leaving me free to also import my PTS privkey into the next DAC and the next one and the next one and....?
The great thing about PTS is that you get shares in every DAC that honors the PTS contract! You don't lose them, you just get shares in the new DACs that are released, and then you keep your PTS!
My question is: why do people who decide to develop DAC want to honor PTS, or why even Invictus Innovation want to honor PTS at all (besides marketing PTS at early stage)?
Because PTS helps raise capital for the development of these DACs and if you didn't honor it then someone could fork your code and honor it anyway.
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Powerball, DAC sounds cool, and allot faster to develop than BitShares.
What is the status on this one?
Have we found some people to develop it?
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Powerball, DAC sounds cool, and allot faster to develop than BitShares.
What is the status on this one?
Have we found some people to develop it?
It is on our roadmap, to be undertaken when we are able to raise enough funds to pay for its development.
But if some other developer were to start credible work on it, we would be happy to cheer them on.
It doesn't matter to us who develops these DACs, we will invest in them on their merits like everyone else.
This generates decentralization in developers just like the DACs themselves.
Once we have multiple credible developers, hopefully on different continents, the whole industry will be much safer.
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Powerball, DAC sounds cool, and allot faster to develop than BitShares.
What is the status on this one?
Have we found some people to develop it?
It is on our roadmap, to be undertaken when we are able to raise enough funds to pay for its development.
But if some other developer were to start credible work on it, we would be happy to cheer them on.
It doesn't matter to us who develops these DACs, we will invest in them on their merits like everyone else.
This generates decentralization in developers just like the DACs themselves.
Once we have multiple credible developers, hopefully on different continents, the whole industry will be much safer.
I was more hoping the launch of Powerball, DAC would be able to raise funding for Invictus (because Invictus would have allot of shares in this if it honors PTS). Then this added funding could be used for BitShares development.
But I guess we have a bit of a chicken-egg situation here.
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Powerball, DAC sounds cool, and allot faster to develop than BitShares.
What is the status on this one?
Have we found some people to develop it?
It is on our roadmap, to be undertaken when we are able to raise enough funds to pay for its development.
But if some other developer were to start credible work on it, we would be happy to cheer them on.
It doesn't matter to us who develops these DACs, we will invest in them on their merits like everyone else.
This generates decentralization in developers just like the DACs themselves.
Once we have multiple credible developers, hopefully on different continents, the whole industry will be much safer.
Stan,
I honestly think one of the first and most important tasks of Invictus Innovations should be to develop and release an exquisite DAC development kit. If this were any other industry, say the gaming industry for example and you're building a platform for construction of games then you release an easy to use development kit to facilitate the process. If it were mobile technology like Android then you'd release a kit which any programmer can make use of using whatever language they know.
The reason most developers (myself included) don't know where or how to get started right now is because there isn't a development kit. This would mean a lot of documentation, reference protocols and a high level interface. If there are enough programmers opening up the development so that other programmers can write reference implementations, or templates, that could help too.
I've taken a look at Keyhotee and I can figure out what it's doing, and I've looked at Protoshares as well. Protoshares is based mostly on Bitcoin and Bitcoin is very daunting for anybody to mess around with, as a result not a lot of people are able to make anything more than small changes. When I tried to compile Protoshares I could not get it to compile in Linux due to the various dependencies.
Bitshares in my opinion is where it really gets interesting. I hope the API for it is high level enough that I can build on top of it and that development can take place in many programming languages at once. I could easily see a scenario where we are building DACs on top of DACs.
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Powerball, DAC sounds cool, and allot faster to develop than BitShares.
What is the status on this one?
Have we found some people to develop it?
It is on our roadmap, to be undertaken when we are able to raise enough funds to pay for its development.
But if some other developer were to start credible work on it, we would be happy to cheer them on.
It doesn't matter to us who develops these DACs, we will invest in them on their merits like everyone else.
This generates decentralization in developers just like the DACs themselves.
Once we have multiple credible developers, hopefully on different continents, the whole industry will be much safer.
Stan,
I honestly think one of the first and most important tasks of Invictus Innovations should be to develop and release an exquisite DAC development kit. If this were any other industry, say the gaming industry for example and you're building a platform for construction of games then you release an easy to use development kit to facilitate the process. If it were mobile technology like Android then you'd release a kit which any programmer can make use of using whatever language they know.
The reason most developers (myself included) don't know where or how to get started right now is because there isn't a development kit. This would mean a lot of documentation, reference protocols and a high level interface. If there are enough programmers opening up the development so that other programmers can write reference implementations, or templates, that could help too.
I've taken a look at Keyhotee and I can figure out what it's doing, and I've looked at Protoshares as well. Protoshares is based mostly on Bitcoin and Bitcoin is very daunting for anybody to mess around with, as a result not a lot of people are able to make anything more than small changes. When I tried to compile Protoshares I could not get it to compile in Linux due to the various dependencies.
Bitshares in my opinion is where it really gets interesting. I hope the API for it is high level enough that I can build on top of it and that development can take place in many programming languages at once. I could easily see a scenario where we are building DACs on top of DACs.
I completely agree. These are the kinds of reasons why developers need to raise funds. So we can provide a complete full-service ecosystem as soon as possible.
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Wouldn't it be better if the people who were in the lottery were the ones who owned the actual coins? For example, anyone with a Lotterycoin could send a transaction into the blockchain to be added to the next block. Once the next block is mined, a transaction is chosen as the winner and gets the sum of all the coins from the transactions in that block, minus a reward for the miners. Maybe your odds of winning could be increased depending on the size of your transaction. This would give the coin serious utility as a DAC and also give miners an incentive to mine.
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Wouldn't it be better if the people who were in the lottery were the ones who owned the actual coins? For example, anyone with a Lotterycoin could send a transaction into the blockchain to be added to the next block. Once the next block is mined, a transaction is chosen as the winner and gets the sum of all the coins from the transactions in that block, minus a reward for the miners. Maybe your odds of winning could be increased depending on the size of your transaction. This would give the coin serious utility as a DAC and also give miners an incentive to mine.
When you enter most casinos, you must exchange your fiat for "chips" and cash them out at the end of the night. Think crypto-chips!
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Powerball, DAC sounds cool, and allot faster to develop than BitShares.
What is the status on this one?
Have we found some people to develop it?
It is on our roadmap, to be undertaken when we are able to raise enough funds to pay for its development.
But if some other developer were to start credible work on it, we would be happy to cheer them on.
It doesn't matter to us who develops these DACs, we will invest in them on their merits like everyone else.
This generates decentralization in developers just like the DACs themselves.
Once we have multiple credible developers, hopefully on different continents, the whole industry will be much safer.
Stan,
I honestly think one of the first and most important tasks of Invictus Innovations should be to develop and release an exquisite DAC development kit. If this were any other industry, say the gaming industry for example and you're building a platform for construction of games then you release an easy to use development kit to facilitate the process. If it were mobile technology like Android then you'd release a kit which any programmer can make use of using whatever language they know.
The reason most developers (myself included) don't know where or how to get started right now is because there isn't a development kit. This would mean a lot of documentation, reference protocols and a high level interface. If there are enough programmers opening up the development so that other programmers can write reference implementations, or templates, that could help too.
I've taken a look at Keyhotee and I can figure out what it's doing, and I've looked at Protoshares as well. Protoshares is based mostly on Bitcoin and Bitcoin is very daunting for anybody to mess around with, as a result not a lot of people are able to make anything more than small changes. When I tried to compile Protoshares I could not get it to compile in Linux due to the various dependencies.
Bitshares in my opinion is where it really gets interesting. I hope the API for it is high level enough that I can build on top of it and that development can take place in many programming languages at once. I could easily see a scenario where we are building DACs on top of DACs.
+1. A development kit would be very very helpful. Can a separate thread be started for the resources / tools / skills requirements - this will help us to plan ahead.
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Powerball, DAC sounds cool, and allot faster to develop than BitShares.
What is the status on this one?
Have we found some people to develop it?
It is on our roadmap, to be undertaken when we are able to raise enough funds to pay for its development.
But if some other developer were to start credible work on it, we would be happy to cheer them on.
It doesn't matter to us who develops these DACs, we will invest in them on their merits like everyone else.
This generates decentralization in developers just like the DACs themselves.
Once we have multiple credible developers, hopefully on different continents, the whole industry will be much safer.
Stan,
I honestly think one of the first and most important tasks of Invictus Innovations should be to develop and release an exquisite DAC development kit. If this were any other industry, say the gaming industry for example and you're building a platform for construction of games then you release an easy to use development kit to facilitate the process. If it were mobile technology like Android then you'd release a kit which any programmer can make use of using whatever language they know.
The reason most developers (myself included) don't know where or how to get started right now is because there isn't a development kit. This would mean a lot of documentation, reference protocols and a high level interface. If there are enough programmers opening up the development so that other programmers can write reference implementations, or templates, that could help too.
I've taken a look at Keyhotee and I can figure out what it's doing, and I've looked at Protoshares as well. Protoshares is based mostly on Bitcoin and Bitcoin is very daunting for anybody to mess around with, as a result not a lot of people are able to make anything more than small changes. When I tried to compile Protoshares I could not get it to compile in Linux due to the various dependencies.
Bitshares in my opinion is where it really gets interesting. I hope the API for it is high level enough that I can build on top of it and that development can take place in many programming languages at once. I could easily see a scenario where we are building DACs on top of DACs.
+1. A development kit would be very very helpful. Can a separate thread be started for the resources / tools / skills requirements - this will help us to plan ahead.
I agree. The prototypical nature of the bitcoin software has exploded into many forks. Cryptocurrency is still in a gold-rush era and instead of focusing on user-friendlyness or even developer-friendlyness there has been a rapid succession of new coins and ideas based on coins. I think the first to develop a good SDK for DAC-creation can pull an enormous developer-audience towards his project.
I have been following bitshares and related projects for some time now and have not been able to help much. I have some skills and some experience, but like luckybit delving into bitcoin-code is still tough. When a there is a new documented layer on top of protoshares enabling high-level DAC implementation I would be able to do more. I might be willing to contribute to such a project.
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I would like to take lead on this, since every attempt at CPU mining only has fallen flat i'd like to take this experiment and add a few ideas then deploy.
I noticed this part
#define PSUEDORANDOM_DATA_SIZE 30 //2^30 = 1GB
#define PSUEDORANDOM_DATA_CHUNK_SIZE 6 //2^6 = 64 bytes
#define L2CACHE_TARGET 16 // 2^16 = 64 K
#define AES_ITERATIONS 50
In momentum.cpp and would like to try changing it to
#define PSUEDORANDOM_DATA_SIZE 31 //2^31 = 2GB
#define PSUEDORANDOM_DATA_CHUNK_SIZE 6 //2^6 = 64 bytes
#define L2CACHE_TARGET 17 // 2^17 = 128K
#define AES_ITERATIONS 50
or
#define PSUEDORANDOM_DATA_SIZE 32 //2^32 = 4GB
#define PSUEDORANDOM_DATA_CHUNK_SIZE 6 //2^6 = 64 bytes
#define L2CACHE_TARGET 18 // 2^18 = 256K
#define AES_ITERATIONS 25
To see if it can escape GPU implementation. Even if it became famous and widespread enough to warrant an ASIC, it would be a long time from now, by then we would have other new innovations.
The increases in required memory would render GPU mining either useless or equivalent to CPU mining. Some would ask why not 8 GB or 16 GB, my response is 4 GB machines are becoming the norm as most people use windows & nowadays.
While the Social Consensus License is not yet in place i'd like to release this experiment into the wild. (Also....i have a vague idea how to import PTS into the chain but everyone who can is mum about it so i don't think i will).
If you however know how to import the balance, perhaps we can work together on this.
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Add a 1%-3% fee per transaction.
Half of all the fees collected in the entire pot go to paying out a surprise jackpot, which is awarded to random transaction pairs.
So if Bob sends Jane 100.00 coins, and they are lucky either Bob or Jane or both will get a surprise jackpot donation as a reward for using the currency, i.e. 100100.00 coins.
This will boost incentives to spend rather than just hoard it.
Protoshare: Pfd7yVHojcWvcLeDCSmKPo77QD3EgZ3r8F
Btc: 19ZEhBMWtsntY4Kc8wPAkYfekYgCvJVh4Q
Doge: D9XzmPpHSAcfWn4VdBF93HC6pq4k7df1iT
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Add a 1%-3% fee per transaction.
Half of all the fees collected in the entire pot go to paying out a surprise jackpot, which is awarded to random transaction pairs.
So if Bob sends Jane 100.00 coins, and they are lucky either Bob or Jane or both will get a surprise jackpot donation as a reward for using the currency, i.e. 100100.00 coins.
This will boost incentives to spend rather than just hoard it.
Protoshare: Pfd7yVHojcWvcLeDCSmKPo77QD3EgZ3r8F
Btc: 19ZEhBMWtsntY4Kc8wPAkYfekYgCvJVh4Q
Doge: D9XzmPpHSAcfWn4VdBF93HC6pq4k7df1iT
Hoarding is more desirable than spending... darn Keynesian economics teaching that hoarding is bad.
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In addition to Bytemaster's point, adding fees to transactions does not encourage transactions. Also, such a transaction jackpot (if it encouraged any sort of transactions) would encourage spam transactions between addresses controlled by the same entity, which could load the network so as to impede legitimate transactions.
If the only way to get anyone to use a DAC is to pay them to use it, you're doing it wrong...