The new BTS will now be rewarded with 20% dividends of all newly created DACs.

That's the ticket! I wanna see this in writing in the official proposal we'll vote on.

What form will that 20% come in, shares, existing share value, deflationary burn? There are several options and I would like the proposal to be explicit.

Wow! how things move fast around here.

I listened to the mumble session and have spent the last 6 hours reading. I hold only BTSX and got in about 2 months ago.

But I haven't really seen the X of BTSX materialize. There is no way to trade other cryptos with BTSX unless you use some OTHER exchange. So there's something quite different about the btsX than all other crypto exchanges available today. There's so much discussed and so many ideas I've practically forgotten about BTSX as an eXchange.

I'm generally in favor of BM's proposal. I do have a question about what I'll be invested in after the merger. When I bought BTSX I thought I was investing in the eXchange, which would become worth more as each new DAC was added. I viewed it similarly to how PTS investors view their share "dividends" accrued with each new DAC launched.

I'm not too sure that was an accurate perspective, but that was my viewpoint. I never felt I had an explicit understanding of how a new DAC would add to my BTSX value.  But I was confident in BM's vision and believed the time was right to get onboard. I've been listening to BM since April.

So what will change after the merger? Will I get any Music, Vote, DNS or XYZ DAC shares, or is my gain more through association like my original impression?

Quote from: bytemaster on October 20, 2014, 05:44:20 pm

Why choose to believe in an objective reality that you cannot prove exists?

I don't really care what people believe in as long as it doesn't affect their behavior in a way that I view as undesirable. I may not agree with all of the beliefs you hold as you have expressed them in these posts, but ultimately I am judging you by your actions and decisions. And what I can say is that I am very impressed and pleased with the decisions you have been making and the way you have been acting in the context of directing this complicated project and ecosystem. And for that reason I am happy to continue supporting this project with you in the leadership position. Now if your beliefs change your behavior considerably, for example if your metaphysical solipsism makes you think you can just will BitShares into a trillion dollar market cap without having to do any real world work as long as you meditate hard enough, then that would be a completely different story. But I see no reason to fear something like that since it would be such a radical departure from how you have been behaving thus far.

But to more directly answer your question, I would respond by asking you why you choose to believe in a subjective reality that you cannot prove exists. I actually know the answer to that question, you already answered it:

Quote from: bytemaster on October 16, 2014, 04:09:15 am

So I choose to adopt the views that make life most enjoyable... and I can honestly say that switching perspectives lets you see the world in a whole new way.  The thought of adopting any kind of objective view of reality at this point in time seems painful and "dead".   

And as I said before that is fair. Similarly, I believe in an objective reality because it just makes more sense to me (it is more palatable to me). Ultimately, these beliefs don't really matter because they are in the realm of metaphysics (cannot prove or disprove them). What matters is that which is in the physical realm (the things we can prove or disprove using rationality and the scientific method). This is why I don't really care what you believe as long as it isn't influencing your behavior to be against my own interests.

I love this thread, and this is my first post in it as I have been very busy with other maters and also b/c the conversation has been deep and fast paced I wanted to be sure I understood what's really at play here before jumping in.

I've been somewhat troubled since bytemaster said:

I attempt to avoid labeling my views as labels carry baggage.

 I submit for your consideration the following unprovable and impossible to disprove hypothesis: there is only one consciousness and that consciousness is me.

As was pointed out previously, this is the philosophy of solipsism, a term I wasn't familiar with though I'm keenly interested in philosophy. As you yourself pointed out bytemaster, it is pointless to argue for or against this perspective. Given what you are doing here it is very surprising you hold this view, and I'm left to ponder how such an intelligent person as you finds value in such a perspective.

Further, you work in a field where labels are everything. Actually that's what language is all about so avoiding the label of solipsism is just a symptom of rejecting objective reality. You defined your belief quite well and that is what everyone accepts as the basic definition of solipsism.

You appeal to this community through rational, objective reason, yet you deny the participants in it our very own autonomous, individual identities.

I am curious about how much of an interest in philosophy you have, and how long you've been pursuing such knowledge.

It appears to me we both share strong libertarian / anarchist perspectives, for which I have grown to have a strong respect for you. However, it's causing me some cognitive dissonance as I am an objectivist and choose to believe in an absolute, objective truth.

I applaud your willingness to put yourself and your beliefs out here and to be vulnerable. You continue to amaze me, as well as puzzle me with how your mind works.

Thank you for sharing.

This is the least amount of activity I've seen on this board since getting involved here. Is there something going on I should know about?

Tasteful shit being dropped in this thread. I especially enjoyed listening the queen song, and I've been a Dire Straits fan for many years.

How about...

Make the Money by Macklemore
Taxman by The Beatles
Mr. Banker by Lynyrd Skynard
Eat the Rich by Aerosmith
The Big Money by Rush
Moneytalks by AC/DC

Yeah! Lots of "tasteful shit" happening here!!!

I loved the Elephant revival tune too Riverhead (not so great for BitShares, but lovely to listen to).

A lot of the so-called leading figureheads in bitcoin have been almost begging for the red-flag laws to be called upon bitcoin and others, like mr BTC-China. Saying stuff like we need legislation that does not stifle or other nonsense like that, because history shows us that is a contradiction in terms. What's the point of making trustless, robust and corruption preventing systems and then asking for legislation, that's just admitting the design is flawed and the experiment has failed.

"if there could be a social decentralized network that nobody can spy on you, if you could send money without the need to disclose all your personal information, if you could have an internet that no one can spy your search habits, would you be interested in such services?" the most common answer I get is "NO. Because in the end of the day I am not doing something illegal and have nothing to hide."

Don't fall into depression from such thinking and sentiment. I know it's prevalent and difficult, especially when you're surrounded by it.

We change it by giving our unique skills to the ecosystem we believe most reflects our own values.  And by being brave enough to make a stand. 

What Fuzz said here is the best answer, and the one thing we can do within our own power to control. Turn your back on "the system" as best you can, and face the challenges of what YOU can do IN YOUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE to make a different, alternative, better world.

I love threads like this. I feel they're kindof "pep talks" to keep the troops focused on the big picture, the goal we should all be striving for though every effort, coding, marketing, evangelism etc.

As to why people resist and are victims of propaganda and seem to be comfortable with violence (the violence of taxation, which makes the violence of war possible), you need to dig into philosophy and study the nature of man's psyche.

Like Charlie Chaplin said:

Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost....

I agree with him there's not enough empathy in the world, but I disagree there's too much thinking. It's NOT THINKING that has allowed the psychopaths to persuade those that DON"T THINK their way is the better way for humanity, all the while they sit in wait as they slowly take control of the fruits of labor everyone else produces but they refuse to.

Don't defer your will to another through authority - take responsibility for your actions and think about their ramifications. Each of us have choices to make in our everyday lives. Make them count for something good, something that will last beyond your brief time of being alive.

I was once an extremely religious person, not pious and seeking leadership but rather always seeking truth. It took decades but truth finally prevailed and I cast off the limiting chains that restricted my freedom to live to my potential. But like so many things, religion has both good and evil elements, and it's important you learn how to discern between them.

Some believe mankind is born evil and must learn to become good. Others the opposite. I believe neither of those are true. We are born as a blank slate, like a fresh new computer without an operating system. Whether that computer does great things or brings the network to it's knees is all a matter of it's software, how it's programmed. The potential for good or evil is in all of us from the beginning. For children their role models dictate their early programming or BIOS, and it isn't within their control to change it. They're caught in the web of dysfunctional history unless they are born to parents that can see through it and make changes to give that new life a better chance take a different path than the trajectory his / her ancestors have placed them in.

So much of life is learning how to do that and learning how to strike a balance. But don't confuse balance with compromise. Stand firm to the principles of truth and let it guide all your decisions. Learn how to find truth, act on it and you will lead a virtuous life and a better place to posterity than you inherited.

For those who wish to pursue the root causes of violence and explore the philosophical basis for what I said above check out http://www.freedomainradio.com/. To stop the cycle of violence lets stop inflicting it on the most helpless among us - children. 

Sorry for the long post. But I get rather passionate with threads like this.

Can't beat the sound and crazy great vocals of Freddy Mercury, but I'll stick with Dire's MFN to be more on point all around.

Great thread! I am wondering tho what the reason for asking is the OP mentioned...