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Messages - ruletheworld

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16
General Discussion / Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« on: December 28, 2013, 05:40:31 am »
Quote from: hammerbrain on December 28, 2013, 04:51:21 am
Quote from: Geneko on December 27, 2013, 07:18:31 pm
There is one thing that bothers me. This one is related to inevitable influence to future Pts trading.
 All Pts accumulated in the pool for Ags could not be used directly in order to pay developers , bounties , promotions and etc…It has to be traded for Btc. Who is controlling supply of those accumulated Pts to the market. Are those accumulated one day, going to be traded next day.  If not then when? Obviously the one who controls supply of those accumulated Pts is going to influence the market price in a big way.

+1

hook or by crook somebody wants to accumulate PTS.
Why do you think so? I don't think it's right to assume that the PTS donated for this would flood the market. I don't see why bounties shouldn't be paid in PTS. They also have funds from the BTC pool to pay for developers who don't want to work for BTC, but I see no reason why bounties shouldn't be paid and accepted in PTS.
If anything, this whole thing is going to increase the velocity of PTS.

17
BitShares PTS / Re: Couple of newbie questions.
« on: December 27, 2013, 12:33:37 am »
Quote from: zyxxer on December 26, 2013, 02:46:26 pm
Quote from: ruletheworld on December 25, 2013, 08:17:13 pm
Quote from: zyxxer on December 25, 2013, 08:03:35 pm
Hello!

I have a couple of general questions on PTS and Bitshares, maybe someone can help:

1. Since PTS are mined, how did the developers (i.e. Invictus) raise funds from starting PTS? By mining relatively early?
2. Its my understanding that Bitshares are mined as well. How then do PTS lead to a stake in Bitshares, given that these are mined?
3. Will there be different kinds of PTSs for given kind of DACs, and if so, will the current PTSs also also lead to ownership in new PTSs?
4. In the whitepaper I read that different BitAssets are supposed to follow the price of an underlying, e.g. gold. Its not quite clear to me what should make this happen. To me (I am a financial engineer), a BitAsset seems to resemble a financial futures (e.g. on a stock). In the financial world, the price of the future is ultimately tied to that of the underlying be a right to  physical delivery that the futures holder has. This does not seem to be the case for BitAssets, so I wonder what mechanism is supposed to steer the price.

Thanks!
1. Invictus had VC funding before the project, but yes, they do own a lot of PTS too, by
a) Mining early
b) Running an early PTS mine and taking a fee
c) Buying PTS on the open market
d) Selling a founder Keyhotee ID for 10PTS per id

2. BitShares will probably be Proof of Stake. However, the answer to your question is similar to what MemoryCoin 2.0 did, although hopefully a little bit easier (i.e. direct importing of PTS wallet.dat) in that when the genesis block is mined, it will contain the distribution information based on wallet addresses. If you hold the private keys to a given wallet address, then you'll automatically have a stake in BitShares because the genesis block was mined that way.

3. There will only be one PTS but different DACs from Invictus and your PTS will give you a share in all the DACs that honor PTS.

4. BitAssets are not really like financial futures, see <shamelessPlug>http://btcgeek.com/bitshares-guide/</shamelessPlug> - I discuss a lot of frequently asked questions about Bitshares/BitAssets

Hope this helps

Having read the link you listed in 4., I must point out that this does not really make it clear how the price of the BitAsset is supposed to be tied to the underlying (in the critical part of the paper a book is referred). From what I have seen elsewhere (and I do this for a living), there always is some kind of arbitrage opportunity between a derivative and the underlying. In the case of an American option, for example, you can buy the option, exercise it and thus obtain the underlying, if said option is too cheap. In the case of a futures, its the same thing (with the difference that delivery is possible only at maturity, but thats not critical). I think what resembles BitAssets more closely is a prediction market we e.g. see in sports betting, say Betfair.com. Here, you can trade the probability of a particular event occuring, say that Manchester wins against Arsenal. If the traded probability is say too low, you buy the market at say 0.2 and then obtain 1.0 at the end of the match if Manchester really wins. Thats the arbitrage. In the case of BitShares, I do not see that. I am not 100% sure what will happen without such a mechanism, but there would surely be a big opportunity for market manipulation, e.g. driving up the price of the BitAsset to force a short squeeze, thereby inducing more buys, etc.

I added an additional paragraph in the original link about how the prediction market is supposed to work.
The basic idea is that if the price of a BitAsset deviates significantly from the market price of the underlying Asset, then there will be incentives to bring it back in line, by longs/shorts.

I am with you on your concern of a short squeeze. If people can corner a given market, short-squeeze might occur (this is automatically enforced by the protocol). If there are many independent market participants, it is unlikely to happen. This is another reason I'd like to see Bitshares spread to as many people as possible and the more independent players in the market, the better. Hopefully there will be no collusion at least in the initial stages when the system might be a bit more vulnerable to big players colluding. As Bitshares disseminate to more and more people, hopefully, the chances of this happening should go down significantly.

18
General Discussion / Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« on: December 26, 2013, 01:48:39 am »
Quote from: bytemaster on December 26, 2013, 01:36:57 am
Honoring AngelShares only applies to anyone who uses our code (paid for by the Angels) to develop their DAC.  Obviously they have very different value propositions.

1) PTS is liquid and allows you to speculate on not just Invictus but all DACs
2) AngelShares is much closer tied to Invictus and we encourage other DAC development teams to form their own funding method or perhaps simply copy the AngelShares model.
3) If you don't like how the project is going you can sell PTS... AngelShare holders are in it for the long run. 

Obviously the market will sort it all out and price them accordingly.   Note that AngelShares creates DEMAND for PTS as a means of purchasing AGS on part with BTC.

Does this mean that there is no way BitShares will be released before 200 days into 2014, and possibly later?
Is Invictus signing a social contract now that says AGS holders will get access to at least 10% of ALL future DACs (I know you said that on the website, but just confirming again)?

19
General Discussion / Re: Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation
« on: December 26, 2013, 01:31:43 am »
phoenix raises an important point. It seems like AngelShares is a more economic way to get a piece of the BitShares pie than ProtoShares (granted ProtoShares has other advantages such as liquidity).

If every DAC released by Invictus in the future will honor both AngelShares and ProtoShares, it might prompt more people to convert from ProtoShares to AngelShares and thus cause a drop in price of ProtoShares.

Also, unlike ProtoShares, I don't see any reason why a community member not involved with Invictus would want to honor AngelShares.

Looking forward to how the market will price and value AngelShares.

20
BitShares PTS / Re: Couple of newbie questions.
« on: December 25, 2013, 09:04:37 pm »
Quote from: zyxxer on December 25, 2013, 09:00:48 pm
Quote from: ruletheworld on December 25, 2013, 08:17:13 pm
Quote from: zyxxer on December 25, 2013, 08:03:35 pm
Hello!

I have a couple of general questions on PTS and Bitshares, maybe someone can help:

1. Since PTS are mined, how did the developers (i.e. Invictus) raise funds from starting PTS? By mining relatively early?
2. Its my understanding that Bitshares are mined as well. How then do PTS lead to a stake in Bitshares, given that these are mined?
3. Will there be different kinds of PTSs for given kind of DACs, and if so, will the current PTSs also also lead to ownership in new PTSs?
4. In the whitepaper I read that different BitAssets are supposed to follow the price of an underlying, e.g. gold. Its not quite clear to me what should make this happen. To me (I am a financial engineer), a BitAsset seems to resemble a financial futures (e.g. on a stock). In the financial world, the price of the future is ultimately tied to that of the underlying be a right to  physical delivery that the futures holder has. This does not seem to be the case for BitAssets, so I wonder what mechanism is supposed to steer the price.

Thanks!
1. Invictus had VC funding before the project, but yes, they do own a lot of PTS too, by
a) Mining early
b) Running an early PTS mine and taking a fee
c) Buying PTS on the open market
d) Selling a founder Keyhotee ID for 10PTS per id

2. BitShares will probably be Proof of Stake. However, the answer to your question is similar to what MemoryCoin 2.0 did, although hopefully a little bit easier (i.e. direct importing of PTS wallet.dat) in that when the genesis block is mined, it will contain the distribution information based on wallet addresses. If you hold the private keys to a given wallet address, then you'll automatically have a stake in BitShares because the genesis block was mined that way.

3. There will only be one PTS but different DACs from Invictus and your PTS will give you a share in all the DACs that honor PTS.

4. BitAssets are not really like financial futures, see <shamelessPlug>http://btcgeek.com/bitshares-guide/</shamelessPlug> - I discuss a lot of frequently asked questions about Bitshares/BitAssets

Hope this helps

Thats super helpful, thanks vm. As a follow up to 2.: Does that mean that all BitShares will go to PTS holders? I.e. if I own 1% of all PTS, will I also end up owning 1% of all BitShares? Cheers!
The original promise was that PTS holders will get 10% of Bitshares when they are released, i.e. if you hold 1% of all PTS, you'll hold 0.1% of all BTS when they come out. Bytemaster proposed getting this up to 50% somewhere but not sure what the status of that proposal is.

21
BitShares PTS / Re: Couple of newbie questions.
« on: December 25, 2013, 08:17:13 pm »
Quote from: zyxxer on December 25, 2013, 08:03:35 pm
Hello!

I have a couple of general questions on PTS and Bitshares, maybe someone can help:

1. Since PTS are mined, how did the developers (i.e. Invictus) raise funds from starting PTS? By mining relatively early?
2. Its my understanding that Bitshares are mined as well. How then do PTS lead to a stake in Bitshares, given that these are mined?
3. Will there be different kinds of PTSs for given kind of DACs, and if so, will the current PTSs also also lead to ownership in new PTSs?
4. In the whitepaper I read that different BitAssets are supposed to follow the price of an underlying, e.g. gold. Its not quite clear to me what should make this happen. To me (I am a financial engineer), a BitAsset seems to resemble a financial futures (e.g. on a stock). In the financial world, the price of the future is ultimately tied to that of the underlying be a right to  physical delivery that the futures holder has. This does not seem to be the case for BitAssets, so I wonder what mechanism is supposed to steer the price.

Thanks!
1. Invictus had VC funding before the project, but yes, they do own a lot of PTS too, by
a) Mining early
b) Running an early PTS mine and taking a fee
c) Buying PTS on the open market
d) Selling a founder Keyhotee ID for 10PTS per id

2. BitShares will probably be Proof of Stake. However, the answer to your question is similar to what MemoryCoin 2.0 did, although hopefully a little bit easier (i.e. direct importing of PTS wallet.dat) in that when the genesis block is mined, it will contain the distribution information based on wallet addresses. If you hold the private keys to a given wallet address, then you'll automatically have a stake in BitShares because the genesis block was mined that way.

3. There will only be one PTS but different DACs from Invictus and your PTS will give you a share in all the DACs that honor PTS.

4. BitAssets are not really like financial futures, see <shamelessPlug>http://btcgeek.com/bitshares-guide/</shamelessPlug> - I discuss a lot of frequently asked questions about Bitshares/BitAssets

Hope this helps

22
MemoryCoin / Re: Show support for MemoryCoin on cryptsy!
« on: December 25, 2013, 04:16:38 am »
Supported, and also tweeted out to Cryptsy (https://twitter.com/BTCGeek/status/415692557897584640)

23
MemoryCoin / Re: Please support MMC to be included on coinmarketcap.com
« on: December 24, 2013, 10:58:45 pm »
Supported! Others should do the same, it's the first ProtoShares child, after all :)

24
General Discussion / Re: Common Questions about BitShares Answered
« on: December 24, 2013, 01:21:31 am »
Quote from: devilfish on December 23, 2013, 05:54:30 am
hey yeah I had a look when you posted it sorry, looks good to me just change " The project generated a good amount of buzz around the proposal, although the original scope and timelines were has changed since."
Changed to "have", my bad!

Quote from: que23 on December 23, 2013, 07:21:13 am
sorry, thanks for the article

Where did you get all that information about bitshares? Most of the stuff I've found is still ambiguous.
I've done quite a bit of research into Bitshares and the surrounding ideas. The original bitcointalk thread and the white paper are good starts.

Quote from: oco101 on December 23, 2013, 03:15:11 pm
This is good great job we need more of that out there.
 
The only thing I will argue is, you are saying " the scope and details of the project have been modified". I would say the details changed yes, but not the scope of the project.
Thanks. Actually, the scope has changed along with the details. For example, the initial scope was to include Keyhotee into Bitshares but that was later developed as its own project. DomainShares was also mentioned to be a part of BitShares in the initial announcement. There's nothing wrong at all in changing the scope of such an ambitious project, IMHO. It only shows there is so much potential for future projects! :)

25
General Discussion / Re: Common Questions about BitShares Answered
« on: December 23, 2013, 02:52:03 am »
No other takers?

26
General Discussion / Common Questions about BitShares Answered
« on: December 22, 2013, 05:44:12 am »
I wrote a post on my blog, answering some of the common questions I encounter about BitShares and BitAssets. I might have missed some things or overlooked some points. Would appreciate the community's input. Also, if there are other questions that you have which I haven't addressed, please post them and I'll add to the post. I wanted to share the details and information about BitShares with all my readers.
(bytemaster has taken a look already)
http://btcgeek.com/bitshares-guide/

27
General Discussion / Re: Vegas Baby, Vegas: The Buzz About Bitshares by Brian Page
« on: December 20, 2013, 03:03:42 am »
It was a pleasure meeting you, and hope to see your magic soon :)

28
General Discussion / Re: Getting Started buying bitshares
« on: December 07, 2013, 12:03:31 am »
Quote from: cryptkeeper on December 06, 2013, 10:57:56 pm
Can someone explain to me how to get started on buying bitshares. I just found out about this recently and would like a step by step guide to get my feet wet. Also can you give some advice as far as what are the best resources to use? Thanks your help is greatly appreciated.
Did you mean BitShares or ProtoShares? BitShares is not yet released. ProtoShares, you can buy on exchanges.
(This post from my blog might help: http://btcgeek.com/buy-protoshares/)

29
General Discussion / Re: Vegas!
« on: December 05, 2013, 04:01:54 am »
I'll be there! Look forward to hearing you talk, and would love to meet you in-person.

30
General Discussion / Re: Princeton professor is building a Bitcoin-inspired prediction market
« on: December 03, 2013, 03:40:16 am »
Started a thread about it already :)
http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1143.0

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