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Messages - monsterer

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1651
General Discussion / Re: feed price relative bid/ask order will hurt us
« on: November 19, 2014, 03:46:36 pm »
A)
A single delegate can have at most 1 active feed. Only the last feed from each delegate matters if it is published in the last 24 hours.

Ok, so that reduces the discontinuity to when a new delegate gets voted in. Less serious than having discontinuities every block :)

1652
General Discussion / Re: feed price relative bid/ask order will hurt us
« on: November 19, 2014, 02:42:51 pm »
For each bitAsset you sort all active feeds in ascending order (a delegate's active feed is his last feed if its age is less than 24h).
If the sorted array of active feeds has N elements the (N+1)/2  th element is chosen as median. (Havent actually looked in the code and there could be slight difference but that is the idea)

Sorry, it still isn't clear - are you saying:

A) the median is over N different delegate feeds
B) the median is over N different feeds within one delegate

?

1653
General Discussion / Re: Upgrading bitcoin
« on: November 19, 2014, 01:43:28 pm »
How exactly do you envision this "counter attack" happening? They're going to bribe all stakeholders to only vote for delegates who don't create blocks?

Same way as you'd do it to them. Use buying power to buy a controlling voting stake - last I heard that was something like 13% of market cap. Then you just vote in a bunch of bad delegates and 'whoops wheres your blockchain'.

1654
we need to start considering reaching out to coinmarketcap to start a discussion on giving them a more robust means of rating the top coins. 

I've sent them a support request about it the other day, but it can't hurt for more people to do the same thing. You're right, it does give a pretty false impression to the casual observer.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IZf5cBivam_93zENT_arFFuvWDidHGjWxoTMVmFSoWg/viewform

FYI - the single line of text input is all you get for your support request!

1655
General Discussion / Re: feed price relative bid/ask order will hurt us
« on: November 19, 2014, 11:27:12 am »
No, I think the actually used price feed is the median of all published ones.

Are you sure its not a median of all current feeds to the current delegate?

1656
General Discussion / Re: Upgrading bitcoin
« on: November 19, 2014, 11:17:14 am »
I agree that beginning with a scrypt coin to test the economics is the best strategy. It needs to be presented in a way that is clearly profitable to the altcoin: after their coins have migrated to the main chain the next target is bitcoin; if the strategy is succesful against any POW altcoin, it will be successful against bitcoin.

There is no way to sugar coat this. This will be seen as an attack, and will likely be met with a counter attack and then it's just a case of bigger market cap wins. Last time I checked, litecoin had a bigger cap than bitshares.

Feeling lucky?

1657
General Discussion / Re: feed price relative bid/ask order will hurt us
« on: November 19, 2014, 10:40:57 am »
Yes.
And that is a good thing.

Doesn't that mean that the price feed will change abruptly every block?

1658
General Discussion / Re: feed price relative bid/ask order will hurt us
« on: November 19, 2014, 10:07:43 am »
And delegates are free to set trust_level for each exchange which is essentially a weight of that exchange's feed.

Wont that mean each delegate could have a totally different feed price?

1659
Prior to yesterdays 'event', the orderbook on bitrex (the only exchange trading ethercoin) looked like this:


Code: [Select]
bids                       asks
0.00020    20              0.00030       15
0.00010    10              0.00035       20
0.00005    200             0.08          100

'Market cap' was 0.00030 BTC x 1000000 = 0.15 USD x 1,000,000 = $150,000

This figure is just the best price X coin supply and ignores the fact that the buy side of the book only contains 0.015 BTC.

Then, some fat fingered trader comes along and places a market buy order of value 0.0115 BTC, which eats into the sell side of the book, leaving it looking like this:

Code: [Select]
bids                       asks
0.00020    20              0.08             100
0.00010    10             
0.00005    200     

Now, the 'market cap' becomes 0.08 BTC X 1000000 = 30 USD x 1,000,000 = $30,000,000

So, 'market cap' increased by 200 times, and yet there was only a buy order of roughly $4.

The mistake here is the market cap valuation using the best price. In markets that are this lacking in liquidity (like all cryptocurrency markets are), it is totally meaningless to calculate the market cap like this. To do it right, you need to clear the available supply against the buy side of the orderbook, aggregated for all market places.

note: these orderbook examples and trade sizes were simplified for illustration purposes.

Cheers, Paul.

1660
General Discussion / Re: Ethercoin up 4533.49 %?!?! $ 32.63!
« on: November 18, 2014, 10:34:27 pm »
And just like that it's out of there. Currently $4.

Market depth much?

1661
General Discussion / Re: Why BTS is falling like this?
« on: November 18, 2014, 10:17:17 pm »
I was madly putting in sell orders at 4500 and rebuying at 4300 (which was still 5% above the btc38 price), and I was getting hit instantly on every order I put in on BOTH the buy and sell side, as fast as I could put them in!  It was literally free money, I made 4000 BTS in five minutes just being the market maker on both sides of the spread!  Then it calmed down again and the price went back to tracking btc38.

In my experience market making like that is great... until you get lumbered with a large holding of the wrong sort at the beginning of a strong trend and lose it all the profit again!

1663
General Discussion / Re: Upgrading bitcoin
« on: November 18, 2014, 10:07:26 pm »
I still fail to see how any of this is possible without an outside investment large enough to buy all the mining power in whatever coin the attack is directed against.

You cannot just print currency to fund this, it doesn't make any sense.

1664
General Discussion / Re: Upgrading bitcoin
« on: November 18, 2014, 07:48:34 pm »
IMO consider actually doing this attack will result in a counter attack against bitshares, and with the much lower cap and vulnerable voting apathy problem, you might find this idea backfires quite horribly. I wouldn't recommend trying it.

1665
General Discussion / Re: Why BTS is falling like this?
« on: November 18, 2014, 07:36:42 pm »
You're partly right. I see it in trading, where they compare how 'correlated' two things are. And though I can't do the maths, I do see BTSX is highly correlated to BTC and then other 2.0 vs. just an independent price.

Here's the evidence, and this was a PITA to do, so hope you appreciate it! :)



These are the overlaid market caps from the last 30 days. NXT is red, BTS is green. Notice the massive positive correlation :)

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