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Messages - biophil

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706
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Website name. Brainstorming
« on: April 30, 2014, 02:19:14 pm »
Who came up with Keyhotee.. that's a great name and not so lazy/obvious as ones above.

Perhaps look to baby names.. I haven't time atm.. but Native American throws
Ujurak - rock (Inuktitut)
Kanti - Sings (Algonquin)
Knoton - Wind (NAtive American)
+?

+5% for Kanti. It also evokes musical words in European languages: cantar in Spanish, cantare in Italian.

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707
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Website name. Brainstorming
« on: April 29, 2014, 01:26:37 pm »
I will vehemently argue against anything containing the word "beat." Anybody ever heard of "beats by Dre?" They're insanely expensive celebrity-branded headphones that "kids these days" just can't keep their hands off of. I have a hard time thinking of the word "beat" without thinking about beats headphones and peoples' headlong rush to throw money at marketing gimmicks.

That, and you'd probably run into trademark issues.

708
Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Website name. Brainstorming
« on: April 28, 2014, 11:49:11 pm »
My favorites so far:
Canary
Upnote
Swingset (this one is pretty darn cute)
Unison



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709
hey biophil, one question : if you had a generally accepted way for accounting energy transfers, it would be possible for you to calculate an accurate energy balance?

...thats the basic idea behind emergy, putting different kind of energies into comparable units.

The problem with emergy is that is not 100% exact theres always uncertainty.

I ve read also that its possible to measure the amount of uncertainty of emergy calculations, but i dont know what can be this useful for.


If there is a margin of error in emergy calculation , what do you think about using all the nodes ( owners of emergy coins)  in the net to fix in a collaborative way this error and get a consensus of what is gonna be the fixed value?






Tipon, emergy is a fun theoretical concept, but I'm guessing that in this system you're envisioning you'd need to tabulate emergy values for all different types of energy conversions. Do you have any idea how difficult that would be to do accurately? I worked in the renewable energy industry several years ago and we never were able to calculate an accurate energy balance for our product alone, much less for biofuels in general. The problem wasnt that we didn't try; it was that there is no generally accepted way to account for energy transfers. If we accounted for it one way we'd get vastly different values that if we accounted for it another way. I think emergy is a useful concept because it threatens our intuitions about how energy works, but I'm not sure it has great practical quantitative value.

Furthermore, how could you ever create a cryptocurrency that "knows" how much emergy this or that thing has, when humans can't even calculate precisely how much emergy it has?

I'm not trying to shoot down OP's idea, but I'd love for him to elaborate a little on how it might work.

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I think computing energy balance is still hard and maybe even chaotic. Think about energy balance for a liter of biodiesel:

One energy input is the electricity to run the plant and keep the lights on. This electricity comes from some combination of coal, nuclear, and renewables. Let's look at the nuclear: uranium has to be mined, transported, refined, and when its gone through fission, the waste has to be disposed of. All of those steps require energy. Take refining: the centrifuges have to be built somewhere, and it costs energy to do that. You could keep playing this game forever.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's computationally infeasible to compute an accurate energy balance because the energy web is so tightly interwoven. The only way you can figure out a product's energy cost is to make some educated guesses along the way. There's nothing wrong with that, but you could never guarantee that a mistake somewhere wouldn't throw the whole calculation off. Throw eMergy into the mix and you dramatically increase the complexity of an already-challenging problem.

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710
General Discussion / Re: DPOS Free-Rider question
« on: April 28, 2014, 11:33:07 pm »
Yeah, that all makes sense but it wasn't quite what I was asking. I guess I'm asking about the mechanics of DPOS: In the current DPOS design, do non-delegates contribute to security? If not, then there's no free-rider problem. My guess is that the answer is that they don't.

An add-on question: do delegates get to fire other delegates? Your post seems to suggest that they do.

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711
General Discussion / DPOS Free-Rider question
« on: April 28, 2014, 09:25:06 pm »
I may be missing something important, but maybe someone can help.

Normal POS (PPC, NXT, etc): If you leave your client open and unlocked for staking (or minting, forging, whatever they call it), you contribute to the security of the network and are paid for your efforts.

DPOS: 100 trusted delegates are paid to maintain the security of the network. Nobody else has any incentive to leave their client open, since they earn dividends whether they do or not. In fact, for their personal security, they should put most of their holdings in cold storage.

My (probably naive) question: is this bad? Are the (n-100) users who put their tokens in cold storage free riders? Would they be contributing to network security if they had their clients running?

712
Meta / Re: New Forum Icons
« on: April 28, 2014, 06:19:21 pm »
I think my second thought was the practical side of fixing the hexagons to size but where size permits perhaps those could work well, so down the side of the forum list, for example; and in headers, in favicons and small usage perhaps do without.

I got used to Keyhotee having a splash of red and miss that.. perhaps maroon sits better with blue, I don't know but I don't think anything would be lost from having red and perhaps yellow as splash eye catch. The more rare the use the more it will notice. The [Technical Support] forum was the other example that calls out for red and white hoop.

It's all good. Content matters more than presentation but you don't want to hear that :)

FWIW, the icons do still have the hexagons on the website; I'd guess hexagons matter more on the website (and places like coinmarketcap) than they do on the forum.

713

Whats OP?


OP means "original post." You're OP. :)

714
Meta / Re: New Forum Icons
« on: April 28, 2014, 04:00:29 pm »
Very, very cool.  +5%

715
Tipon, emergy is a fun theoretical concept, but I'm guessing that in this system you're envisioning you'd need to tabulate emergy values for all different types of energy conversions. Do you have any idea how difficult that would be to do accurately? I worked in the renewable energy industry several years ago and we never were able to calculate an accurate energy balance for our product alone, much less for biofuels in general. The problem wasnt that we didn't try; it was that there is no generally accepted way to account for energy transfers. If we accounted for it one way we'd get vastly different values that if we accounted for it another way. I think emergy is a useful concept because it threatens our intuitions about how energy works, but I'm not sure it has great practical quantitative value.

Furthermore, how could you ever create a cryptocurrency that "knows" how much emergy this or that thing has, when humans can't even calculate precisely how much emergy it has?

I'm not trying to shoot down OP's idea, but I'd love for him to elaborate a little on how it might work.

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716
BitShares PTS / Re: Just bought a load of PTS
« on: April 25, 2014, 08:26:55 pm »
I'm just starting to wrap my head around the concept of PTS and decided it's a great opportunity to invest in.

I do understand the idea that the PTS value just before a snapshot increases as the anticipated value of the new DAC is included in the price, just before 10% of the new DAC shares are given to the PTS holders. So what I'm wondering is what happens with the new shares after the snapshot? Do we need another wallet than a standard PTS wallet? Is the wallet compatible with all the various shares? Will these new shares be convertible in some way in more PTS? If so, is there a mechanism in place as we speak? Will the future dividends from every new DAC shares be given in share value (share buy back with destruction of the share, which then rise the price of each share) or in another crypto-currency/equity?

An answer to all these questions will help a lot my understanding of "the gift that keeps on giving".

Thanks

Initially, each new DAC will come with its own wallet. I think the long-term plan is to integrate all DACs together into one wallet with Keyhotee, but that's probably a ways off. When a new DAC is launched, there will be instructions for how to redeem your shares in the DAC that you got through PTS. Your new shares won't magically appear in your PTS wallet, but don't worry - you'll be told what to do when the time comes.

717
General Discussion / Re: DPOS almost the same as a mining pool?
« on: April 25, 2014, 02:59:08 pm »
How to prevent someone setting up a voting pool and collect all votes from shareholders, then split the earning among them? More small shareholders would like to join this pool to earn transaction fees instead vote again it. Then the pool will have enough votes to sign several delegates and centralize the power. Am I missing anything?
Can this be addressed?

If a pool tried this then I suspect that many people would vote against that pools delegates.   The average individual is already getting 90% of the trx fees as dividends and thus what remains for the delegate is hardly enough to justify this kind of move.

A pool operator that wants support in this form would just commit to taking less than their allowed 10% and pay the rest as dividends to all shareholders.

What is the weakest point of DPOS that has been discovered up to now?

I too am interested in what is perceived to be the weakest point... and compared to what...

I think all POS chains suffer from the inability to validate block headers on their own.   IE: bitcoin can do a fast check of POW difficulty before even looking at the transactions.  Finding a way to do rapid validation of the chain you are on without having to process the whole thing would be helpful.

I suspect trusting a few delegates to sign statements on threat of being fired for lying is the best we can get.

You talk a lot about firing delegates for lying. I'm curious: will the firing process be automatic? If so, is it possible that someone could be fired spuriously? How does the firing process work?

718
BitShares PTS / Re: Just bought a load of PTS
« on: April 25, 2014, 02:50:41 pm »
That is assuming the new DAC begins trading at Snapshot PTS price minus post PTS snapshot price. It could trade for more or it could trade for less. I don't think you could guarantee either way.

They will drop like a ton of bricks after each snapshot of upcoming DACs. Fortunately the price should increase towards that days, too once the snapshot dates are announced.

Aah, i see.. So worth holding onto for now. I would have to be quick in that case to get them onto the exchanges to sell after the DAC snapshot's. Seems a shame to have to keep doing that though, what with the whole bitshares eco system looking like the best economic solution out there right now for the crypto world. Surely invictus are working on a solution? Like some kind of incentive to NOT sell after the snapshot? Just thinking out loud.

Unless a bunch of miners jump on board, with this difficulty you will not be able to be quick.

Another reason you won't be able to be quick (DPOS or no) is that most of the exchanges issued a trading halt, some for a couple days, right around the time of the snapshot.

719
General Discussion / Re: New Economic Paradigm, Collaborative Commons
« on: April 25, 2014, 02:16:03 pm »
is it not possible for capitalism to evolve into socialism? if the greatest means of production were information and all information were made free and public, is this a socialist or capitalist society? the reason for property rights stems from the tragedy of the commons. but with information, a non-scarce resource, you have what is known as a comedy of the commons where by information becomes more valuable as more ppl use it.
Information and knowledge will always be costly to acquire. Also the affirmation that an information is more valuable when more people know it is highly counterintuitive and debatable.

Blockchain technologies allow a decentralize control of ownership, they are the empowerment of the individual ownership. I don't see how we can interpret that as the premise of socialism.
Capitalism will end the day where human nature will change, a transhuman shift can end capitalism, nothing less. But even when transhuman technologies will be avalaible I don't think people will choose to abandon the primacy of their individuality.

I don't see how information and knowledge is costly to acquire since there are tons of free resources online that allow you to acquire new information/knowledge. Coursera, Udacity, various forums, youtube etc.

I think a deeper issue is that information and knowledge are costly to produce. Sure, once they're out there, modern technology allows them to be distributed with almost no cost, but distribution is not the same as production. Today's abundance of information is pretty cool, but it's at least a little illusory: is something abundant because there are a million identical copies of it? Or is it scarce because it takes training, education, resources to create the very first copy of it?

720
BitShares PTS / Re: Just bought a load of PTS
« on: April 24, 2014, 04:21:30 pm »
They will drop like a ton of bricks after each snapshot of upcoming DACs. Fortunately the price should increase towards that days, too once the snapshot dates are announced.

Aah, i see.. So worth holding onto for now. I would have to be quick in that case to get them onto the exchanges to sell after the DAC snapshot's. Seems a shame to have to keep doing that though, what with the whole bitshares eco system looking like the best economic solution out there right now for the crypto world. Surely invictus are working on a solution? Like some kind of incentive to NOT sell after the snapshot? Just thinking out loud.

A lot of people seem to think that the post-snapshot price drops are a problem that needs to be "fixed." I completely disagree! The price drops are just a natural consequence of the market valuation of the new DAC that the snapshot creates. A post-snapshot is not a loss of value; it's a transfer of value to the new DAC. It's hard to see this with the Feb 28 snapshot because it's taken I3 so long to make Bitshares X liquid; in the future, I believe they're going to make sure that snapshots happen much closer to product launches so there won't be this long illiquid waiting period.

Fret not; post-snapshot price drops aren't something to be afraid of. :)

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