I will vehemently argue against anything containing the word "beat." Anybody ever heard of "beats by Dre?" They're insanely expensive celebrity-branded headphones that "kids these days" just can't keep their hands off of. I have a hard time thinking of the word "beat" without thinking about beats headphones and peoples' headlong rush to throw money at marketing gimmicks.

That, and you'd probably run into trademark issues.

hey biophil, one question : if you had a generally accepted way for accounting energy transfers, it would be possible for you to calculate an accurate energy balance?

...thats the basic idea behind emergy, putting different kind of energies into comparable units.

The problem with emergy is that is not 100% exact theres always uncertainty.

I ve read also that its possible to measure the amount of uncertainty of emergy calculations, but i dont know what can be this useful for.


If there is a margin of error in emergy calculation , what do you think about using all the nodes ( owners of emergy coins)  in the net to fix in a collaborative way this error and get a consensus of what is gonna be the fixed value?

Quote from: biophil on April 28, 2014, 02:20:59 pm

Tipon, emergy is a fun theoretical concept, but I'm guessing that in this system you're envisioning you'd need to tabulate emergy values for all different types of energy conversions. Do you have any idea how difficult that would be to do accurately? I worked in the renewable energy industry several years ago and we never were able to calculate an accurate energy balance for our product alone, much less for biofuels in general. The problem wasnt that we didn't try; it was that there is no generally accepted way to account for energy transfers. If we accounted for it one way we'd get vastly different values that if we accounted for it another way. I think emergy is a useful concept because it threatens our intuitions about how energy works, but I'm not sure it has great practical quantitative value.

Furthermore, how could you ever create a cryptocurrency that "knows" how much emergy this or that thing has, when humans can't even calculate precisely how much emergy it has?

I'm not trying to shoot down OP's idea, but I'd love for him to elaborate a little on how it might work.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

I think computing energy balance is still hard and maybe even chaotic. Think about energy balance for a liter of biodiesel:

One energy input is the electricity to run the plant and keep the lights on. This electricity comes from some combination of coal, nuclear, and renewables. Let's look at the nuclear: uranium has to be mined, transported, refined, and when its gone through fission, the waste has to be disposed of. All of those steps require energy. Take refining: the centrifuges have to be built somewhere, and it costs energy to do that. You could keep playing this game forever.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's computationally infeasible to compute an accurate energy balance because the energy web is so tightly interwoven. The only way you can figure out a product's energy cost is to make some educated guesses along the way. There's nothing wrong with that, but you could never guarantee that a mistake somewhere wouldn't throw the whole calculation off. Throw eMergy into the mix and you dramatically increase the complexity of an already-challenging problem.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

I may be missing something important, but maybe someone can help.

Normal POS (PPC, NXT, etc): If you leave your client open and unlocked for staking (or minting, forging, whatever they call it), you contribute to the security of the network and are paid for your efforts.

DPOS: 100 trusted delegates are paid to maintain the security of the network. Nobody else has any incentive to leave their client open, since they earn dividends whether they do or not. In fact, for their personal security, they should put most of their holdings in cold storage.

My (probably naive) question: is this bad? Are the (n-100) users who put their tokens in cold storage free riders? Would they be contributing to network security if they had their clients running?

Whats OP?

OP means "original post." You're OP.

Tipon, emergy is a fun theoretical concept, but I'm guessing that in this system you're envisioning you'd need to tabulate emergy values for all different types of energy conversions. Do you have any idea how difficult that would be to do accurately? I worked in the renewable energy industry several years ago and we never were able to calculate an accurate energy balance for our product alone, much less for biofuels in general. The problem wasnt that we didn't try; it was that there is no generally accepted way to account for energy transfers. If we accounted for it one way we'd get vastly different values that if we accounted for it another way. I think emergy is a useful concept because it threatens our intuitions about how energy works, but I'm not sure it has great practical quantitative value.

Furthermore, how could you ever create a cryptocurrency that "knows" how much emergy this or that thing has, when humans can't even calculate precisely how much emergy it has?

I'm not trying to shoot down OP's idea, but I'd love for him to elaborate a little on how it might work.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

Quote from: delulo on April 25, 2014, 01:36:16 am

Quote from: bytemaster on April 23, 2014, 03:41:17 pm

Quote from: delulo on April 23, 2014, 03:32:36 pm

Quote from: Amazon on April 17, 2014, 06:42:29 pm

How to prevent someone setting up a voting pool and collect all votes from shareholders, then split the earning among them? More small shareholders would like to join this pool to earn transaction fees instead vote again it. Then the pool will have enough votes to sign several delegates and centralize the power. Am I missing anything?

Can this be addressed?

If a pool tried this then I suspect that many people would vote against that pools delegates.   The average individual is already getting 90% of the trx fees as dividends and thus what remains for the delegate is hardly enough to justify this kind of move.

A pool operator that wants support in this form would just commit to taking less than their allowed 10% and pay the rest as dividends to all shareholders.

What is the weakest point of DPOS that has been discovered up to now?

I too am interested in what is perceived to be the weakest point... and compared to what...

I think all POS chains suffer from the inability to validate block headers on their own.   IE: bitcoin can do a fast check of POW difficulty before even looking at the transactions.  Finding a way to do rapid validation of the chain you are on without having to process the whole thing would be helpful.

I suspect trusting a few delegates to sign statements on threat of being fired for lying is the best we can get.

You talk a lot about firing delegates for lying. I'm curious: will the firing process be automatic? If so, is it possible that someone could be fired spuriously? How does the firing process work?

Quote from: BldSwtTrs on April 25, 2014, 02:35:12 am

Quote from: clout on April 25, 2014, 01:36:17 am

is it not possible for capitalism to evolve into socialism? if the greatest means of production were information and all information were made free and public, is this a socialist or capitalist society? the reason for property rights stems from the tragedy of the commons. but with information, a non-scarce resource, you have what is known as a comedy of the commons where by information becomes more valuable as more ppl use it.

Information and knowledge will always be costly to acquire. Also the affirmation that an information is more valuable when more people know it is highly counterintuitive and debatable.

Blockchain technologies allow a decentralize control of ownership, they are the empowerment of the individual ownership. I don't see how we can interpret that as the premise of socialism.
Capitalism will end the day where human nature will change, a transhuman shift can end capitalism, nothing less. But even when transhuman technologies will be avalaible I don't think people will choose to abandon the primacy of their individuality.

I don't see how information and knowledge is costly to acquire since there are tons of free resources online that allow you to acquire new information/knowledge. Coursera, Udacity, various forums, youtube etc.

I think a deeper issue is that information and knowledge are costly to produce. Sure, once they're out there, modern technology allows them to be distributed with almost no cost, but distribution is not the same as production. Today's abundance of information is pretty cool, but it's at least a little illusory: is something abundant because there are a million identical copies of it? Or is it scarce because it takes training, education, resources to create the very first copy of it?