Hi Troglodactyl, can you recommend a paper, a web site or book that explains about scalable and actionable reputation?


cheers

Quote from: Troglodactyl on June 04, 2015, 11:12:58 PM
The way to do this is with scalable and actionable reputation, which BitShares is working on.

Once the platform for tracking it is in place, it can be used to build a reputation for any characteristic for which there's a market, which can be acted on by anyone who cares about that characteristic.

hi, im new with bitcoin and crypto stuff . Some days ago i saw a conference in the internet about block chain consensus algorithms where the speaker was talking about creating systems that align the incentives of the individuals with the outcomes of the whole system . He gave a lot of examples of actions that can be incentivized , these actions were actions performed with a computer (actions that can be easily trackable).
But what about other kind of actions not performed with a computer?
do you think its posible to create a system that  incentive other type of actions? do you know proyects related with this?

I was thinking for example the idea of creating a crypto currency that incentive to take care of nature? Do you think something like this is possible?

is blockchain a way of controlling time?

 in which way the blockchain locks down time?

I been thinking about your question.
I think my plan would be to to create a currency that couples in an isomorphic way the currency itself ( the blockchain)  with esential biological processes  specifically as environment of the coins .
The coins should live in a healthy environment that is a representation of biological processess of nature that are vital for sustainability, but example measuring photosynthesis in an ecosystem , also the value of each virtual agent ( each coin) should be connected to the the health and wealth of the real environment of the real world,  that currency should promote people to cooperate to make the natural environment better because in that way the make more money (energy ) and also helping to restoring the environment means more wealth for all the agents ( more wealth and value for the currency itself).
In this way this technology would promote sustainability and termodinamic efficency.

What do you think?

Quote from: liondani on April 28, 2014, 08:58:52 AM
what is YOUR plan?

Theres this old darwinian theory that says that evolution is determined by competition.
This theory is incomplete.
Evolution has always be also determined by cooperation.
This idea that we humans are in escence competitive is wrong .
Classical economists used to think that individuals following individual interests  and acting competitive would lead to the satisfaction of the whole society.  These theory is wrong.
In humans history there have been a lot of cultures and civilizations that have existed without competition , cultures that have existed in a sustainable way.
I think competition is not something inherent to human nature that cant be changed.
Collaboration on global scale would need a radical change of paradigms, first all those liberal economic theories based on a reductionistic approach should be proscribed as obsolete.
We need to recognize ourselfs not as separate individuals but as part of a bigger community , not only the nearest communities living around you but the whole planet.
We all act in a shared biosphere and exist in an interdependant relationship with nature. All our actions leaves an ecological footstep that  affect the wellbeing and  lives of others human  and species in the world.

I think the posibilities of technologies as crypto stuff and block chain is that it allows new ways of social collaboration and cooperation that would lead to the construction of a new society with a new economic paradigm based on cooperation.
Capitalists markets are gonna be obsolete.

Quote from: Agent86 on May 01, 2014, 03:25:50 AM

Quote from: tipon on April 30, 2014, 11:25:29 PM
oh sorry , i think i should have started with my definition of capitalism, here we go:

For me capitalism is our actual system based on infinite growth.
Infinite growth is the esence of capitalism and its result from competition.
Competition in the system impose to each capitalist the necessity of growing

tipon, You can't stop people from being competitive or motivated by self interest and you seem to think this is the root problem that leads to "infinite growth" which is your definition of capitalism.  I don't think the definition makes much sense.  Bytemaster said to define capitalism by the actions that lead to it, so you say the action that leads to it is competition.  Well, competition can't be avoided, people are not inherently altruistic otherwise you might just give away all your money.

I just did, please read my previous posts.

Quote from: bytemaster on May 01, 2014, 02:24:24 AM

Quote from: tipon on May 01, 2014, 02:13:49 AM
Energy use is related with specific organizations that adopt societies.
Which kind of social organization would allow a sustainable use of energy?
Capitalism tend to centralism, concentration of power, gigantism, and the creation of megalopolies that are not sustainable.

In which way can block chain technologies made it possible to create new types of social organizations?

Quote from: tonyk on May 01, 2014, 02:09:17 AM
You need always more oil.
Can we change this using block chain technologies?

That is a question for Dan.
Dan can you find a way to use blockchains as fuel/and main ingredient for pretty much everything?
...
I do not think the Prophet will be enough here, you will need the God herself, but let's wait.

I am sorry, but your definition of Capitalism is interfering with the ability to reason.   You are defining it by 'effects' instead of what it actually is...   You then judge the effects as wrong.   

Please describe capitalism by the actions that create it rather than by the effects.

Energy use is related with specific organizations that adopt societies.
Which kind of social organization would allow a sustainable use of energy?
Capitalism tend to centralism, concentration of power, gigantism, and the creation of megalopolies that are not sustainable.

In which way can block chain technologies make it possible to create new types of social organizations that can be sustainable?

Quote from: tonyk on May 01, 2014, 02:09:17 AM
You need always more oil.
Can we change this using block chain technologies?

That is a question for Dan.
Dan can you find a way to use blockchains as fuel/and main ingredient for pretty much everything?
...
I do not think the Prophet will be enough here, you will need the God herself, but let's wait.

I think you guys need to understand that is not possible to make a capitalist ecological sustainable system.
Capitalism is inherently insustainable.

You need always more oil.
Can we change this using block chain technologies?

The first thing you need to answer is , what does it mean being sustainable?

Agent86, Economic growth is connected to environmental impact and natural resources consumed.
The problem is that economist dont notice these because all economic theory is wrong.

Growth in our capitalist system is based on fossil energies, particularly oil.
Using oil in agriculture ( as productive insume , for making fertilizers and pesticides)  made it possible to increment radically the production of food available in the planet.
That lead to a radical growth in population.
Oil is not infinite.  And very soon we humanity are arriving to the peak oil.
That would mean a collapse in the agriculture system in the whole world.




We need to construct alternatives to the actual system that is not sustainable in ecologic and energetic terms . The question is , how can we use block chain technologies for this??


I have the intuition that it has to be with creating an architecture that would limit competition and pay for collaboration.
BEcause competition is the escense of the insustainability of the system.

Quote from: Agent86 on May 01, 2014, 01:21:41 AM
tipon, You seem to be thinking of growth in terms of environmental impact, natural resources consumed etc.

Do you think if people were cooperating in a "non capitalist" way that there won't be growth?  Would there still be population growth?

Maybe what you mean by capitalism causing growth is how others have mentioned that inflation can cause people to spend more recklessly because their money will be worth less tomorrow than it is today so you basically have to spend it now and this might be wasteful.

I think a lot of growth in terms of natural resources consumed is caused by population growth; perhaps this would happen regardless of capitalism.  A lot of other species grow exponentially until they max out their resources, habitat, food sources etc. and then stabilize

You cannot compare a hammer with other technologies.
In the same way as you , i think hammers are neutral technologies.
But take in consideration other types of technologies.
The necessity of growth of the system impulsed the development of a certain type of technology with specific characteristics.
This necessity of growth doesnt only implies the necessity of incrementing productivity but also the necessity of incrementing the mechanisms of social control.
The development of techniques and technologies in capitalism is result of a political process of social forces impulsed by big capitals.
Much of the characteristics that tecnology had adopted is not result from a technology that have evolved autonomously independent from a social context and withouth influence of economic powers.
Is result of a technology concieved to be used as political weapon of economic powers.
Technologies are not neutral because they changes the world, they affect individuals. Its not possible to separate a capitalist technology from the use we made of it. Capital ideology is incorporated and hidden in technologies.
In every information architecture theres always hidden a power structure.
Now, most of the characteristics that have adopted technologies of information is result of a technology conceived to be used as a mechanism of social control.


You cannot think in "growth" as something independant to the natural world.
You cannot have growth for ever, thats the problem .

I would like that our world was infinite and we can have infinite growth, but its not possible.

Quote from: luckybit on May 01, 2014, 12:40:57 AM

Quote from: tipon on May 01, 2014, 12:28:04 AM
Are you telling me that is possible to have a capitalist system withouth growth?


I think you are making a big big big mistake interpreting technologies as political neutral.

Technologies are NOT neutral !!!! Neutrality of technologies is part of the ideology of capitalism.

Technology is neutral but you aren't. The hammer doesn't care about any ism. The Internet itself doesn't care what information flows through it, people care. The Internet resulted in economic growth and as a result we are able to communicate right now.

I never said you can have capitalism without growth. I'm saying growth in itself isn't bad. Any social problem you wish to solve requires growth. If you want a better world that also requires growth. You cannot build renewable energy technology, explore space, or do anything without growth.

So growth is important. But it's a matter of whether what is growing at this time is important? Growth in the right areas is what should be encouraged and this is a social decision. If you're advocating an anti-growth stance even if it's positive growth then we are in disagreement. If you're arguing that the current system promotes growth which is counter productive to the future survival of humanity, which is unsustainable, then I will agree and say redirect the growth and make it sustainable.

Are you telling me that is possible to have a capitalist system withouth growth?


I think you are making a big big big mistake interpreting technologies as political neutral.

Technologies are NOT neutral !!!! Neutrality of technologies is part of the ideology of capitalism.

Quote from: luckybit on May 01, 2014, 12:17:12 AM
As I've said on this forum in the past, inflation contributes to the thug mentality.

I define the thug mentality as the same sort of mentality you're talking about where people have to compete to survive, where resources are artificially made scarce to force people to compete using the most ruthless means they can, why does this happen?

People say inflation is a good thing because it causes people to spend money. But using inflation to cause people to spend money means people are going to be on a constant treadmill which requires them to earn money as fast (or faster) than they spend it. It makes it so people can only think about short term profits, it provides an incentive for people (corporations) to act psychopathic.

It's not capitalism which is the problem, it's the form of it that we have. And the reason we have this form of capitalism is because it was forced on us all without the option of letting us choose. People don't choose to be born rich or poor, nor do they choose to be desperate, but when people are both poor and desperate they do anything necessary to resolve their conditions.

Rich people who have property/wealth will do anything necessary to protect it. This is why rich people tend to want strong property rights to protect themselves from the have nots who want to either use the government to tax and redistribute the wealth to themselves, or who want to burglarize them.

The problem isn't the "ism", and it's not the people, it's the culture and the system which shapes the behavior. If you have capitalism but only social corporations are allowed to exist then all of the problems you mentioned wouldn't be problems with capitalism.

So my advice to you is to look at Bitshares as a politically neutral technology (just a tool like a hammer). Next look at how that politically neutral technology can help you solve a social problem. Focus on social enterprises, social capitalism, social entrepreneurship, because the Bitshares community is working hard to help empower people who want to use the tools of capitalism to solve the social ills of the world.

In fact, that is why I'm interested in Bitshares. I want to see a better world, and just going with the program set for us by the system is a path to failure for anyone who wants a better world. The system we have now isn't designed for producing a better world and the ism you use is irrelevant. If we used socialism then the socialism under this culture, using this system we have now, would be just as broken.

The reason I make that strong claim is because I think the source of all of these sorts of problems is that most people still are stuck in the industrial age with their thinking, their culture, their systems, institutions, schools, and until they move into the information age there isn't going to be positive change. Decentralized autonomous cooperatives will force the outdated thinking to adapt to the technological innovation and over time thinking will change just as it has with the Internet.

Yes, instead of a capitalist market based on competition what about a post-capitalist market based on cooperation created using blockchain technologies?

As I said before the actual Economic theory decoupled itself from nature ( thermodynamic processes) .
Since second world war there have been a constant growth of productivity in the world.
This growth implied also a growth of use of energetic and natural resources.
An economy that doesnt grow is an economy on crisis.
Capitalism is the only system in all our history that needs to growth for continuing existing.

Quote from: puppies on April 30, 2014, 11:36:38 PM

Quote from: tipon on April 30, 2014, 11:25:29 PM
oh sorry , i think i should have started with my definition of capitalism, here we go:

For me capitalism is our actual system based on infinite growth.
Infinite growth is the esence of capitalism and its result from competition.
Competition in the system impose to each capitalist the necessity of growing


Instead of using blockchain technologies for expanding competition , how about using them for expanding cooperation?

I'm all for cooperation.  as long as its the voluntary kind.  I think the idea that capitalism requires constant growth stems from two errors.  First is an inflationary monetary policy, and second is a confusion about what money is.  I would point you to Bastiat's what is money.  It was written in 1849 but still holds true to this day.  Ultimately value is subjective and the issue with capitalism is that it can lead to the erroneous belief that dollars are a measure of value, or that all value can be measured in dollars.  In other words some believe that everything is for sale.

oh sorry , i think i should have started with my definition of capitalism, here we go:

For me capitalism is our actual system based on infinite growth.
Infinite growth is the esence of capitalism and its result from competition.
Competition in the system impose to each capitalist the necessity of growing


Instead of using blockchain technologies for expanding competition , how about using them for expanding cooperation?

Quote from: biophil on April 30, 2014, 11:12:39 PM
Tipon, do you really think you're going to get anywhere around here denouncing capitalism? Have you not noticed that capitalism is a popular word on these forums?

Here's my suggestion: come up with some other word for the evil system you're describing. The word "capitalism" has too many meanings. To you, it means greedy unsustainable growth and development, but to a lot of people around here it means something much less sinister: something like "the concept that people should be able to own things freely without someone else violently taking them away."

I'm just trying to give you some friendly advice to help you get your point across better. I hate seeing people shooting themselves in the foot through poor choice of words.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

why? the speed of use of natural resources in capitalism goes much faster than the speed of regeneration of the earth.
These speed is always increasing.
The planet is not infinite.
Thats a destructive process.
Theres a contradiction between the need of infinite growth with the physical limits of the planet.

Now, how can we use blockchain technologies for fixing these?

Quote from: tonyk on April 30, 2014, 10:59:06 PM
Capitalism is a cancer that is destroying the planet.
Thats because its based on infinite growth.



Not big fan of Marks in this regard...