Quote from: bytemaster on September 29, 2015, 01:56:32 PM
99% of people are AFRAID of what would happen if they respond in love rather than violence and control. 

One of the best sentences I read on this forum  +5%

Quote from: bytemaster on September 29, 2015, 03:40:18 PM

The cost to attack POW is not the cost they advertize ($414K per day for BTC).   The cost to attack any system is to attack at its weakest link, not its strongest.     For $18,000 per day in transaction fees you could completely cripple the bitcoin network until all of the wallets out there raised fees.  Then once they raise fees you pull off your attack until the wallet providers lower fees... then attack again.    For $18,000 per day you could easily make competing mining pools unprofitable.       

So the argument that it costs X times less to attack it is wrong on its face.        What does it cost to "attack" a swiss bank and get them to change their policy to censor/limit transfers?

You must compare COST to ATTACK vs VALUE of DAMAGE.   VALUE of DAMAGE is measured by how long the attack can be sustained and how costly it is to recover.   

The COST to ATTACK BTC may be $18,000 per day, but the attack can continue indefinitely.    As the attack progresses the value of BTC will fall which will make the attack cheaper to maintain.   

In DPOS the COST of a DIRECT attack is much higher  $1.5M dollars for BitShares 0.9 to gain control of all delegates via "frontal attack" compared with going after 51% of BTC.
In DPOS2 the COST of a DIRECT attack is even higher due to proxy voting and collateral voting raising the barrier

The cost to attack BTS2 is the cost of getting a TRUSTED community member to TURN on the community.  While some men/women are easily bought, other men/women have integrity that cannot be bought. 
The cost to attack BTC is the cost of getting a TRUSTED mining pool operator to TURN. 

If we assume that the cost of getting a mining pool to turn is similar to getting a witness to turn, then the fact that we have more witnesses means it costs more to get 50%
We know that many mining pools charge 0% while others charge 1%.  At 1% with 20% of BTC the mining pool has INCOME of $50K per month, but also has expenses. 

What we can conclude from this is that if witnesses had a combined income equal to that of the mining pools, then the cost to corrupt them would be the same.   

If we keep witness pay at 50,000 BTS per month (as proposed) and had 17 witnesses (as proposed) and BTS grew to be the size of BTC then they would each earn over $70K per month with far lower expenses.

From this I can conclude that the security of DPOS is greater while the cost is LESS which makes if much more efficient.   

I have written a blog post with pretty much the same type of arguments regarding POW vs DPOS security in a more structured form.
Maybe you find it useful to have these arguments in structured form for ppl who don't know the exact context of this conversation here:

http://consensus-analytics.com/pow-vs-pos-a-comparison-of-security-costs-in-open-distributed-ledger-protocols/

It wasn't my intention to to get brownie points but here is what I have done that may have helped to spread the word about the innovative things happening around Bitshares and DPOS:

As I consider Bitshares one of the most innovative projects I have honorably mentioned the project and/or concepts like DPOS about every second article on consensus-analytics.com

I published a rebuttal of the "nothing can ever be cheaper than POW" post by Paul Sztorc http://consensus-analytics.com/pow-vs-pos-a-comparison-of-security-costs-in-open-distributed-ledger-protocols/ and discussed it here extensively on his blog.

I like the values of this community and the tools developed by Bitshares and hope it will have an influence on the wider society :)

My Bitshares account: consensus-analytics

I saw that you are discussing this too.

I made a blog post responding to Paul's article: http://consensus-analytics.com/pow-vs-pos-a-comparison-of-security-costs-in-open-distributed-ledger-protocols/

Overall the discussion about work / cost is pointless if not geared towards some to be maximized criteria. 

You can follow the discussion here: http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/#comment-2179988839

Quote from: xeroc on July 02, 2015, 01:51:38 PM
I know that blog .. well written articles that stick to the facts .. thanks for writing and publishing them

Thanks xeroc!

I have observed the Bitcoin / Crypto Economy Space now for a while and so got in touch with libertarian theory. I am personally very interested in theories about social interaction. I thought a lot about the ins and outs of libertarian theory in a relatively unstructured way until I finally wrote that paper which deals with the very broad concept of externalities.

I hope you enjoy reading it! Feel free to discuss it. I like the free way things are discussed on this forum :)

You can find it here: http://consensus-analytics.com/publications/

If you like it share it :)

I am sad to say that I won't be able to write the paper. At least not to the extent I wished. The professor refused it because it is not his "field of expertise". What a surprise :)

But I will at least, at some point make it into a longer blog post (consensus-analytics.com). Can't say when though since the thesis has to be written anyway (on another topic).

THANKS for all your contributions! It will not have been for nothing!

Quote from: Carpet Ride on March 14, 2015, 03:09:18 PM
Imo the important piece is Blockchain based reputations for supporting commerce - ala gets rid of need for contracts and lawyers.  Blockchain voting will show how governments are disenfranchised from their people, however, the people will not be able to shift away from Gov'ts until Blockchain reputations are ubiquitous. 

Good luck with your paper. Keep us posted!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for your comment!

That could be categorized as the elimination of private law (enforcement).

Hi everyone,

I am thinking about writing my master's thesis about the "political implications of blockchain technology". Here I would like to share some of my ideas with you and see whether this topic has enough substance. Your ideas are very welcome.

Where do you think lies the biggest potential of this technology to change how social interaction and the resolution of conflict among humans is arranged?

What would you say is the core of the innovation that changes how humans get along with each other? My take: Being able to control (hold private keys) assets that are tracked on a distributed ledger that is maintained based on public rules (open source software defining the rules to update the ledger). 

Any ideas you have help! Especially those that are very specific or are substituted by an example or embedded in sociological / political theory.

Here are my thoughts up to this point:
1. Money sovereignty: With debt based asset management (today) the control of the asset is transferred from it's owner to either banks or any entity that has control over the bank (e.g. a state). Blockchain technology would allow the owner to fully control his/her assets. This might lead to less influence of the state due to the increasing difficulty of collecting taxes, imposing capital controls etc.

2. A new form of governance: Continuous voting, voting for representatives in specific areas (vote for a health politician etc.).

3. In my opinion libertarian solutions don't work without the according political culture, not without certain norms and not without social enforcement of these norms (outlawing that is not only based on the interests of the individuals that practice the outlawing but on a social norm they follow that does not increase their personal profit). In a global society where the individual does not depend as much on "its" group like in Rothbard's ancient Ireland the cultural basis for a state free society is at least more difficult to establish. Blockchain technology can help here in two ways:

a) Less trust necessary among anonymous individuals: The lack of reputation and trust based on personal relations and on being known in today's relatively anonymous society with its global markets is compensated these days by government regulations (customer protection etc.). Blockchain technology would allow to write the customer protection and the "regulation" into the open source software that defines the business rules that can not be changed by any one party. Further any change to the self enforced "terms of conditions" would be public. Example: Collateral rules for blockchain based derivatives.

b) Bringing back trust and reputation to otherwise anonymous individuals: Blockchain technology would allow an unforgeable reputation system that creates "local liability" on a global scale. Unforgeable rep. system means: No identities with an arbitrarily high repuation can be created and no identities can be destroyed by  a system administrator that does not exist with decentralized databases.
What other problems with rep. systems can blockchain technology solve?

Smart contracts should be very helpful in the sense described under 3a and 3b. In what other sense would "smart contracts" have political implications?

I find 3) the most interesting part and might focus on that.

If you have any scientific literature you think I should read let me know! If you know someone that would like to collaborate let me know.

I find libertarian theory and austrian economics very valuable in that they widen the narrow view of many mainstream theories about the existence of the state and it's relation to the economy. I am also critical of libertarian and austrian theory and think it has a few blind spots. But I think blockchain technology could help to relativise them substantially. The potential implications of this can not be underestimated. It is a challenge thought to make them understood.
Therefore I would attempt to embed the use cases of blockchain technology described above in the discourse about political theory and the state and help to mediate between social sciences and computer sciences.

Quote from: Ander on January 07, 2015, 04:33:55 PM
Thanks, its great to see people recognizing the potential of Bitshares!


In the footnotes, #3, you said that Bitstamp makes almost a billion dollars a month.  Did you mean a million?

It is definitely a million :) Thanks. Corrected.

Feel free to vote / comment on reddit and bitcointalk....

Hello Bitshares people! I have been reading your forum for some time.

I have a blog about crypto 2.0 technologies and made a blog post titled THE BITSTAMP BREACH AND THE NEXT BIG "PLATFORM". I also mentioned your project.

Here is the link: http://consensus-analytics.com/

I also posted this on Bitcointalk https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=917057.msg10069188#msg10069188  ...

... as well as on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rmyov/the_bitstamp_breach_and_the_next_wave_of/