Quote from: bytemaster on October 10, 2015, 04:52:48 am

Very interesting that Ripple is migrating to a platform focused entirely on an old idea, atomic cross chain trading (ACCT)

It looks like they have written a 25 page white paper expounding upon the concept in very general terms.   

It is clear why banks are interested in this:  they each have their own internal ledgers and they want to keep it that way.    This means the only solution that the banks will accept is one built around atomic trading.   

Atomic trading depends upon multiple ACTIVE participants in every trade and is limited in speed by a need for various timeouts and exchanges of data.   

At the end of the day picture two banks using this system.   A customer of Bank A wishes to send funds to a customer of Bank B and we assume Bank A and B are not cooperating with each other.     Their protocol assumes that Connector C has an account with Bank A and Bank B and that both Bank A and Bank B support time locked escrow protocol (ACCT).  Connector C must run a server to facilitate the transfer of money from A to B and customers must know how to discover the potential paths between various banks.

Connector C is effectively a trust-free version of Shape Shift, Meta Exchange, and Block Trades.   When user Sam of Bank A transfers  $100 BankA.USD  to user Alice of Bank B, Alice receives $100 BankB.USD.    The connector is performing a shape-shift from BankA.USD to BankB.USD and as a result is exposed to any and all volatility between BankA.USD and BankB.USD and must also maintain sufficient liquidity.   If there is a bank run from BankA to BankB the connector may run out of funds in its account on BankB while its balance in BankA grows.   

As a result of this, connectors must charge fees and their fees will change based upon how their portfolios are balanced.   Making a payment between two trustworthy solvent banks issuing notes for the same currency will have relatively low spreads.    Providing a connector from Bitcoin or BitShares to a bank account would have much higher spreads.   In fact the fees would probably be prohibitive when compared to Credit Cards.

Furthermore, even though there is no longer any need to trust the connector, the connector is theoretically exposed to the same legal risks and barriers to entry as ShapeShift, MetaExchange, and BlockTrades.   Market forces will tend to push all trades through the same connectors to maximize volume and minimize spreads charged by the connectors. 

The ultimate conclusion from all of this is that governments will regulate the connectors which will effectively keep some ledgers from ever gaining a connector. 

Creating a version of ShapeShift or BlockTrades that is Trust Free does mean that there is less need to regulate the connectors from the perspective of potential theft, but regulations will still be required from the perspective of Anti-money-laundering.   

Ultimately all they have accomplished is the elimination of the need to trust ShapeShift for a single minute.  The amount of money lost in the market by companies like ShapeShift defaulting is pretty close to 0.  Therefore the value of eliminating this particular risk is pretty close to 0.   

The only way that this Interledger system would have any value at all is if the operators of Connectors were free from all regulations because they can perform their function in a trust-free manner.   This would allow many people to set up all kinds of businesses like Shape Shift to connect everything to everything for very low fees.     Eliminating the need for regulating these entities would have tremendous value.   

Unfortunately I fear that Connectors will be heavily regulated.   BankA or BankB could shutdown Connector C at any time by freezing their account.  While no user funds would be lost, the market would be anything but free and the only connectors that would exist would be the same ones that could be trusted in the first place.

Since Bitshares is trying to woo the banks, maybe it might be a good idea to highlight the fact that Bitshares supports the feature?

Even if it is rarely used or only used in instances between Bitshares and Bankchains it still would be useful.

This is such a good idea. I read in the Forbes article just that:
"OpenLedger, The first decentralized "FinTech Exchange" that enables users to convert Bitcoin to "Fiat-Pegged" smart-coins that can be held or traded within a decentralized system. Smart Coins can be cashed in through PayPal, Ripple gateway, and money transfer".

I've yet to see how to do any of this.

Quote from: bytemaster on November 09, 2015, 10:57:26 pm

Quote from: yvv on November 09, 2015, 10:39:47 pm

Is not ripple's interledger going to solve the same problem?

Not the same way. Our approach is more fundamental than Interledger.  In other words,  Interledger could be built on top of Plasma.


I am very intrigued. Are you going to cooperate with ripple team?

I agree; I am very intrigued as well.

So you can build Interledger on top of you solution Plasma? Are your developers going to do this?

What is planed regarding a connection to Gateways on RippleTrade with OpenLedger and vice-versa?
All I've read [heard] is about the way BitShares 2.0 is connected to Ripple & PayPal yet only vague details have barley been released of it... yesterday in the "Ripple Gateway?" Forum I started:

- https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=20058.msg257746#msg257746

I would love to look into Plasma; any recommended links where I can learn more to understand how Interledger [ILP] fits on top of Plasma?

I'll spread what you are saying about OBITS...

I'd definitely like to know more specifics about how these OBITS will help create Gateways to RippleTrade & PayPal though... It's been the #1 question I've been ask when explaining all this. Why it can't be done now with Interledger [ILP] now?

I see the challenge as just needing to get folks to understand what OpenLedger has done to BTS (it's not what people have in mind, trust me... I've had BitShares for over a year... had BitSharesX all those changes have made people think this change is just like all the others).

Until one uses it; they just don't understand its power OpenLedger's Interface/Wallet is!

RippleTrade and OpenLedger could be such a powerful duo with Gateways on each side connecting the two! It's really exciting!

Does anyone know how to connect an OpenLedger Gateway to RippleTrade or vice-versa? I've got a forum post up addressing the issue:

- https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=20058

One thing I keep reading is this description of OpenLedger:

"OpenLedger, the first decentralized “FinTech Exchange,” that enables users to convert Bitcoin to “fiat-pegged” smart coins that can be held or traded within a decentralized system. Smart coins can be cashed in through the Nanocard network, Paypal, Ripple gateway, and money transfers."

I'm new to BitShares 2.0 but extremely impressed. I've owned BitShares through a number of wallets and changes but had given up on them until I read a Forbes article and decided to try and transfer "claim" my old account. I successfully did so and proceeded to get very familiar with the new interface and needless to say; I'm in love with OpenLedger and am trying to learn as much as possible about it.

I have been a long time Ripple & RippleTrade user/supporter. I understand how it's Gateways work very well. I have noticed that OpenLedger has what looks to be a similar Gateway Interface (Bridges also). I am just learning OpenLedger though, and unlike Ripple I do not know how to add a Ripple Gateway. Can anyone help me with this? Or does one add an OpenLedger Gateway to RippleTrade? Or is a connection needed on both sides?

Also... What about PayPal Gateways? Like I said I've read the claims of OpenLedger being able to connect to: Ripple, PayPal & NanoCard in so many places it's not possible to quote them all... Yet all I see in regards to gateway options on OpenLedger are: CCEDK, MetaExchange & BlockTrade (and no where to add any other Gateways).

I've written this same appeal for help regarding the connection of OpenLedger & Ripple on XRPchat:

- http://www.xrpchat.com/index.php?/topic/280-OpenLedger--the-decentralized-fintech-exchange/page__view__findpost__p__3205

I'm very hopeful someone can help from one of these forums.

I hope we can get these two amazing systems working together; as letting more people know how to do it.

Thanks so much for any one who can help!

Charles R Douthat | @creiddouthat

Sent.   

Just sent your PTS Back. I sent 150 because it said their was a 25 PTS fee and wasnt sure if you had to pay that or if it took it out of my transfer and you would only get 100 if I only sent you 125. This is my first time using this PTS wallet so not exactly understand all the fees and such. Let me know if you got what I owe you and we are square.
Thank you again I appreciate it so much!

Kind Regards,
Reid

Quote from: reiddouthat on January 05, 2015, 07:16:43 am

Thank you so much! I have allot of funds on BTER just cant get them off; ill pay you back immediately. It says in the instructions (and I read: I could withdrawal funds to an unregistered account using the key) but I get a message: "cancelled:PTS account is not registered or memo is too long" when I enter my Key into BTER and try to get my funds to my wallet.

Do you need my key or just my
Username: reiddouthat
Account Key: PTS67WQkNsxUB4FGaTeHGqtALfqxr7zGndP4oHE1mVt8hbsMEZtHF

If you need my key let me know, I would post it but am unsure if its supposed to be kept to myself or if it doesn't matter. Just please let me know. I appreciate all the help that users have given me, steering me in the correct direction to figure this out; and you offering to help me get the funds to register on the blockchain. I thank you all.

Hope your holidays ave been wonderful.

Kind Regards.
Reid

You're most welcome.  I'm only sorry for the delay in sending the funds.

Please post your public account key as that is necessary for sending funds to an unregistered account.  Once you have your account name registered on the blockchain, you can then use that name for withdrawing from Bter and other transactions.

And thank you for warm holiday wishes and for your patience!

I understand. I just hope I can get it registered eventually. I want to get these off BTER. Ill pay you back immediately, I just edited my post and added my key. It is:
Account Key: PTS67WQkNsxUB4FGaTeHGqtALfqxr7zGndP4oHE1mVt8hbsMEZtHF
Username:reiddouthat

Thanks so much...