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Messages - JoeyD

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151
Second hangout of the day with Greg Slepak of OkTurtles, about his project, DNSChain and possible use cases and integration in BTS/KeyID.

Ogg
Mp3
M4a/Aac
Flac

152
Ok I've got mumble up and running and ready to record. I'm a bit ashamed that I did not know about OkTurtles, I guess I have not been paying as much attention to namecoin as I thought I was.

153
Chinese community joins, these are different encodings of the unedited recording. This was the first time trying to bridge the language barrier in real time, so things are a bit awkward as we tried working out how to do the translations and questions.

flac
mp3
m4a/aac
Ogg
chatlog

PS
Could someone from the Chinese community check if the Chinese characters came through on that chatlog link, somehow in my browser it doesn't seem to be following UTF-8-encoding, but the file I uploaded was in utf-8-format.

154
[Whispers behind everyones back into emskis ear] Are you sure about that he called you an economist man an economist, that's even worse than laywer.
lol :) Just wanted to point out that emski has a profound  knowledge about it .. in contrast to me .. I am still learning

I just want to clarify: I'm not an economist. I have no economic background (except some game theory, and economics in games). I do not claim I understand anything about economics.

Lol, no problem man, I'm messing with you. I have a hard time keeping up my serious face on this forums, to me it's like a staring contest with everybody trying to keep on their not laughing serious face.

155

I'm more concerned about the lack of criticism in tonyk which was the main point. He surely deserves that.

[Whispers behind everyones back into emskis ear] Are you sure about that he called you an economist man an economist, that's even worse than laywer.

156
fuzznuts (idealist, evangelism)
tonyk (helpful guy.. and funny too)
luckybit (criticism, opening _very_ intersting discussions)
A86 (economist)
liondani (idealist, pretty helpful)
cass (awesome designs)
delulo (different perspective, enlightening)
gamey (criticism, hangout recordings)
JoeyD (hangouts!!)
alt (trying to crush the market!)
emski (criticism, economist)

pretty sure I forgot some ..
thanks to all you guys .. it's a pleasure 'working' together with you even though opinions might differ (but thats what they are good for :) )

Why do i get criticism and tonyk doesn't ?

Because you don't hangout more with me, isn't that obvious, tssk!

EDIT
Btw I do love the part where you complain about being seen as critical, but are okay with being called an economist. Even I'd been angry if someone would call me names like that.

157
General Discussion / Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« on: October 23, 2014, 10:50:14 am »
And AGS has 0 liquidity. :D

This has been said over and over, also as an accusation to the effect that AGS is being gifted liquidity.

First of all, AGS holders never wanted quick liquidity.  That's why they bought AGS.  It was a long term investment to start with.  Otherwise they could have bought PTS.  I don't think AGS holders are thanking their lucky stars now that they have liquidity.  It's more of a liability now.  They will have to watch the markets and manage it, be tempted to sell it, etc. AGS holders probably aren't happy with this sudden liquidity.

Another point is that that AGS was always intended to end up effectively liquid.  Every time a new DAC came out it was becoming more liquid.  Also based on the fact that all along the idea was to build foundation-industry DACs which would then be "snapshoted" in the the future.  With time, AGS was alway supposed to be tending toward complete liquidity.

Wow, what an absurd comment. AGS was never "intended to end up effectively liquid." The fact that you can sell your stake in future DACs does not suddenly make AGS liquid. Nice way to contort reality to fit your objective. AGS was always "locked in" and this is exactly why AGS investors received 6X equity for each dollar they invested. PTS investors paid a 6X premium for their liquidity. Now we are going to shoulder the cost for AGS? Nice bait and switch.
Since we're talking about absurd.

Would you mind giving the sources of your stated facts? Your facts differ quite a bit from how AGS was presented to me. Where did you get the idea that AGS was never to become liquid? Discussions on how to do so date from before I joined the forums in February / March, I only recall that there were technical issues and riscs in doing so, which I3-team-members were not going to address. Afterwards the topic of making ags-liquid has been a recurring one ever since. Not that strange considering we are trying to build a separate selfsustaining entity from bitcoin after all. AGS being illiquid was a technical limitation, since there was no other way to do a similar blockchain fundraiser at the time.

Also where do you get this ridiculous notion about AGS receiving a bonus as if that was planned? I don't see how you can't seem to grasp how PTS (and the entire project) got its ass saved by the donations to the ags funds and ags-donaters did take the bigger risk as they had no way of divesting. Anybody who did so as a way of speculating was just doing it wrong. I personally recall many people not at all being convinced about bitsharesx or the peg holding as a sure thing even after launch. Ignoring that period of the donations post 2/28 is uncool.

Btw I do hold PTS, close to the same amount as I do AGS. I'm also helping trying to lower the PTS network transaction times at a loss compared to just buying PTS. Granted that I was helping the PTS network in the hope that it would be upgraded into a bigger, better, more productive, DPos-sessed Proto-DAC.

158
Random Discussion / Re: Spooky!!! BM works for the Illuminaty
« on: October 23, 2014, 09:42:05 am »
Or he's trying to fit a round peg in a not so square hole.

But, I propose some of the dev funds be used for a PROPER WORKING CAMERA.
Has anyone ever seen a decent photograph anywhere related to bitshares, ever?
I've heard certain people complaining about I3 being a certain type of singularity, but never in my wildest dreams would I suspect them actually affecting photons.

159
General Discussion / Re: Bytemaster on Mumble Now!
« on: October 21, 2014, 09:10:47 pm »
Here is the unedited version in several formats, I'll edit it for the links.

OGG
Flac
m4a
mp3
Chatlog

Kept on talking and Bytemaster showed up again to give a follow up and address some concerns. Sorry for not editing, just skip through until you hear Bytemasters distinct voice.
Flac
Ogg
Mp3
AAC/M4A
Chatlog

Oh and I made my 300-th post with this as well, whish I knew the symbology behind it. Oh wait, how many spartans were supposed to hodl again, or was it huddle? Huddling Spartans!

160
General Discussion / Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« on: October 21, 2014, 04:28:39 pm »
PTS AGS with the biggest difference is that PTS can free trade business, while AGS can't; so exchange AGS ratio is relatively high, but now the PTS with the AGS as to deal with it, is not unfair to PTS? This is not to let AGS can become a deal? Is not with the original issuing AGS contrary to the original intention?

I still do not see how it is unfair as those who donated to AGS still did so with the knowledge that they were risking FAR more than PTS.  PTS holders who have no AGS will have a hard time understanding that the relative risk they had by holding PTS could be liquidated at any time during the most critical growth phases of the project (when risk was Highest)...AGS knew the risk and took it anyway fully expecting to never be made liquid.  So to me it comes down to loyalty (and if loyalty deserves higher rewards)...but that is just me and as you probably know by now I'm borderline crazy in my loyalties sometimes. 

P.S.  even if AGS are made liquid, I have no intention of liquidating them.  I want to see what an older, wiser Bytemaster has in store for me 15 years from now...

When I see comments like this I really lose faith in this forum... Let me explain it very simply for you:

Your "high risk" investment in AGS was based on a social contract that required you to be "locked in" to your investment perpetually. In exchange for this "high risk" investment, you received 6X, let me repeat - 6 times, more equity than PTS investors for every dollar you spent. As a result, you now own 6X more BTSX for every dollar you invested. Now you are proposing that we "gift" AGS holders the liquidity of PTS, violate the social contract, AND allow you to maintain your 6X equity in not only future DACS, but also BTSX! So you get to double dip into BTSX, you get liquidity, you keep your 6X equity, ALL IN VIOLATION OF THE SOCIAL CONTRACT and sadly at the expense of PTS holders when half of your friends liquidate (please don't argue this if you value your reputation).

Still don't see it?

So how much do you think your PTS and resulting BTSX stake was worth without AGS? AGS donators could just as well turn around and fling your argument right back at you. How much of the development was actually paid for with PTS? AGS could argue that PTS are essentially free-loaders, but I don't see how that will improve this discussion all that much.

Credibility is worthless on forums anyway, only arguments should count in this. I personally don't care much for people flaunting their so called reputation and credibility anyway and I hope that will never turn into the accepted measuring stick. Eventhough I'm proven wrong time and time again.

161
General Discussion / Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« on: October 21, 2014, 02:42:09 pm »
I'm having a real hard time believing this can be decided on the forums and centrally.

AGS-donators and PTS holders can sign messages with their keys and cast their votes weighted with their stake.
If DPOS offers a similar mechanic, the vote can be cast with actual stakes instead of random people from the internet having opinions on a forum.

162
General Discussion / Re: IMPORTANT: BTS Merger (Poll)
« on: October 21, 2014, 02:26:48 pm »
AGS is the sole reason we can even talk about PTS/BTS or anything right now. So AGS are the superheroes, we should all receive bitshares capes and start wearing our underwear on the outside. People don't respect superheroes like they used to anymore. Is that the fault of the parents or is it just complaincency?

But on a less serious note, deciding stuff like this on a forum be it poll or not, does not sit well with me at all. But seeing as we don't have a decentralized honest voting mechanism tied to stakes(all of them), it probably is impossible to do this in a fair way.

Personally I am not and probably never will be a proponent of the Cathedral model, so not opposing this move made out of compromise is going against my religion. So either I have lost faith in the Bitshares-priests and think competing religious factions will arise in their wake or I trust that Bytemaster is a saint-like being able to turn a Cathedral into a bazaar, as a tongue in cheek reference on how Cathedrals were born the other way around.

163
Meta / Re: Adding the BeyondBitcoin IRC/Mumble Chat on top of the forum
« on: October 21, 2014, 01:40:35 pm »
IRC will definitely get a more prominent place on the forum. We are looking into how to do something useful with Mumble. If the sessions happened on Google hangouts we could display the youtube live feed on top every time they happen.

Looking into also linking youtube and skype, but those work more like radio shows, not like irc and need a lot more preparation and coordination. At least I don't know how to have a 24/7 youtube session running that is free for people to join and leave as they see fit.

Mumble kinda is like irc with the option of voice. Oh if you are looking into linking the mumble chat with irc that is trivial with this bot.

EDIT
Another problem with live youtube shows is getting people willing to do the show in the first place, just trying to get people to use their microphones is not easy, getting them to use their webcams would be a lot harder. Add to that the fact that there is no regular cast with people with 100% attendance for the hangouts, so who is going to host them? I'm willing to host the streams when I'm around for the hangouts, but I have missed quite a few of them, or was afk.

164
Oh, yeah, the irritating chimes throughout the recording was because Bytemaster has sound notification turned on in his mumble client and wasn't using headphones. So every time somebody typed in the chat part of mumble (which is actually a lot more active than the voice part during most sessions I attended) you could hear it via Bytemasters microphone. Lucky for us he had the text-to-speech turned off, for some inexplicable reason quite a few people seem to enjoy that feature.

I've never done any audio-postprocessing, but since the source soundfile of that notification is accessible in every mumble client, maybe there is a application/plugin that will allow the filtering of all occurrences of the wave-form from an audio stream. Should be way easier than trying to filter random noise or other random sounds.

If need be I can try my hand at it, somehow I seem to be fairly quick on the uptake for stuff like that. Doing editing and transcriptions however is not my strong point. So Fuz if you want a filtered source stream for you to edit, just give me a shout.

165
Need a bit more clarity on proposal.

PTS + AGS + BTSX => BTS
DNS => ?
VOTE => ?
PLAY => ?

Any third party dacs as I understand it will stay separate.

As far as I know, bytemaster was thinking out loud on the forums when he posted the proposal, but hadn't discussed it yet with Vote or DNS/Toast. But his idea was to have all DACS currently developed in house by the bitshares team be part of bitshares (BTS) and that  probably means talking to Vote and DNS to see if they are willing to join.

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