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Messages - Lighthouse

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46
General Discussion / Re: Angel Shares Feedback Requested
« on: December 16, 2013, 03:42:09 am »
Yes, at the expense of people who haven't yet gotten into Bitshares.  We go from having 90% being distributed via mining which is perceived to be free and available to anyone (because we keep talking about how CPU minable Momentum is) to Invictus selling 50% into the market. 

Of course thats a better deal for existing holders of Protoshares, but the deal is already plenty good for them.  This will make it seem like the people who are already in are voting themselves a better deal, or being bribed.  Either one is a bad outcome, the deal is plenty good already - The focus should be on raising the funds required and maximizing the equitable distribution of Bitshares through non-monetary means.

Thats a fancy way of saying take the part we like about mining (that anybody can do it, in theory, and be rewarded) and do it with something other than mining.  I've already proposed educational games that reward with it, contests, sponsoring DAC specific media with it, lots of ways you can spread it around the ecosystem without just selling it.  Be a little creative, because going from 90% will be mined to 50% will be sold looks very bad and that's unfortunate because it doesn't have to be.

47
Also, to the guys at Invictus - If you have investors who have a large amount they want to invest with you, and they want to do it over multiple weekly investment periods you can offer to take all their funds up front and invest them proportionally over any number of weeks for a small fee as a convenience.

48
General Discussion / Re: Angel Shares Feedback Requested
« on: December 16, 2013, 03:20:05 am »
I just want to make sure everyone is on the same page. There will be no windfall mining of Bitshares. They have been actively working to prevent any unfair mining for all future DACs. There has been a lot of talk about this on other threads. If you think you know a way to defeat their new system, then you should tell them, so they can fix it.

Nobody cares about mining, we care about the social contract being changed in any way whether good or bad.   Change is the enemy, the social contract must not be violated or it sets a precedent that Invictus can change the rules of the handshake deal whenever they want.  Do you want that?

Once a blockchain is released, the social contract that surrounds it needs to be treated like an immutable object.  Static, out of reach even of the best intentioned.   For examples of why this is better than letting a benevolent caretaker organization address events as the arise, see: Federal Reserve, et al.

49
General Discussion / Re: Development and Accountability Tracking
« on: December 16, 2013, 03:01:07 am »
I think at least a weekly update from the development lead about what is being worked on, any changes to the schedule, etc.

You should consider it the task of these updates to manage the expectations of those watching you.  Don't make promises you can't keep, just demonstrate competance and consistently deliver what you predict.

50
General Discussion / Re: Large 10+ btc buys on cryptsy today!
« on: December 16, 2013, 02:10:51 am »
Bytemaster was talking speculatively about changing some things and it made the market nervous

51
General Discussion / Re: Angel Shares Feedback Requested
« on: December 16, 2013, 01:45:03 am »
Link?

52
General Discussion / Re: Angel Shares Feedback Requested
« on: December 16, 2013, 01:40:59 am »
Why would we think an upgraded version of momentum wouldn't be minable by cloud or botnets?   Has any actual innovation been made, I must have missed it

53
General Discussion / Re: Large 10+ btc buys on cryptsy today!
« on: December 16, 2013, 01:29:13 am »
I think memorycoin is a bit of a wash, I see no reason why I would want to hold or why it should succeed any more than another altcoin that doesn't have any advantages over Bitcoin

54
General Discussion / Re: Angel Shares Feedback Requested
« on: December 16, 2013, 01:12:45 am »
Quote
Your greed is pushing you to try to combine two things. You want to move to proof-of-stake mining because you learned it is more practical for DACs. The problem is you are now trying to change the social contract for ProtoShares to increase the ownership that you felt you missed out on. In the process, you are undermining all PTS value to investors and encouraging centralization of power. In just one evening I've gone from one of your biggest supporters to thinking I want out entirely. I recall how you gleefully told another investor how their departure means cheaper shares for you, so don't bother. Your primary concern was obvious then, and I should have trusted my instincts. I'll review further before making such a rash decision.

First of all I thing this was just a idea that Bytemaster proposed and by no means a final decision, in fact he clearly stated  and  the name of the topic is : Feedback Request. Ultimately I thing everybody wants the project to succeed. So before accusing Bytmaster of greed or else. There are some obvious  things that are not right and bytemaster is trying to solve. The bootents and the chinese super computer. Those guys they don't give a shit about protoshare they are in short term  for the money, and if we let them be, they gonna take the big part of every pie that they can get there hands on,  be it DAC, Bitshare or else. Don't get me wrong we all hopping to make some money of course but at least we are trying to do something about it like arguing in this forum, or trying already to build a DAC like WETube for example.  Botnets , for them, all this   is just money out of thin air nothing more.

What Invictus proposed is something  that potentially could change the cryptoworld or even the way we do business as we know it. In order to succeed the project needs programmers, needs marketing, needs people to believe and be involved, for all of that the project  needs money the more the better.
Now let's  not forget that Invictus said, if need be, there will be a Protoshare 2.0, so it is not  breach of contract IF Protoshare 2.0  will be forked IF  is solving obvious problems and this with the consensus of everybody  and in a way that is still very interesting for new investors. I mean I'm not saying that we should change everything but this project it is very young still, so if there are thing to be fixed this is the time to do it of course we need sound reasons and be completely transparent about it.

So should be a good ideea to find a better way to address those needs instead of accusing or even worst threatening to dump protoshares, anyhow those that are dumping right know  they are in for short term so they may as well do whatever and get the hell out of this project we don't need them.

This is excellent. Earlier bytemaster said there was someone willing to leave their 150k job to work on the Bitshares project. I want that guy on my team. I'm not heartless, I care about the guy who was making a PTS miner, but that was only ever good for 2 million PTS. It's not a very sustainable business. Getting high class programers is very good idea.

Important to get the numbers right.  Bytemaster proposed 100k new shares sold per week, which at current prices would be about 2 million USD per week in revenue.  That's a LOT of developers.

55
I'm not sure if I understand what's being discussed. Did I miss something from bytemaster? Does he want to create a PTS2.0 or something?

Yes, although he has walked back from the idea now
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1397.0

56
General Discussion / Re: Angel Shares Feedback Requested
« on: December 15, 2013, 10:34:55 pm »
I'm of the opinion that when a blockchain launches, the social contract is effectively set in stone.   Bitcool nailed it, it is BAD for existing stakeholders like ourselves to vote ourselves a better deal because it comes at the obvious expense of those who would join the project after us.  I would not join a project that engaged in that type of behavior, and I wouldn't be an investor in a project that did either.  I want Invictus to succeed, and in order to do that they need to be beyond reproach and obviously in this for the right reasons.   

When you make a deal, keep your word.  No other option

57
General Discussion / Re: Angel Shares Feedback Requested
« on: December 15, 2013, 09:59:56 pm »
Luckybit, I don't care if you want the deal to be better for PTS holders or think that 21 million is too many.  When you bought or mined PTS, 10% of 21 million PTS was the deal and this plan does not change that at all.  You will have instant support for this plan because it does not impact PTS holders at all, if they want to ignore it they can and the deal will be exactly the same as if the change had never been made.

Try to understand, the problem here is Invictus looks like they don't know what they're doing and so are changing the game because they miscalculated early on.  Thats bad because the value of PTS and all invictus projects depends entirely on their ability to deliver, so demonstrating incompetence even if it is well intention-ed is inherently bad for the value of PTS.

You are already invested in PTS, Invictus and Bitshares and so you no longer matter with regards to the remaining distribution.  You understand the value, so if you want more you'll buy them, so of course you think it's a good idea for your usergroup to get 50% instead of 10%.  Now look at it from someone on the outside and suddenly the picture doesn't look so clear and in a competitive market where you can invest in increasing numbers of decentralized corporations that means Invictus is more likely to fail.

So just leave PTS alone and make a new deal where you get it right.  Don't change the deal for better or for worse, and then Invictus doesn't have to care what PTS holders think because they're getting exactly what they expected, even if it's not a new better deal you might think you should get.

58
It was pointed out in the other thread that Bitshares is supposed to be out sooner than in 21 months, I think it is still appropriate to target this number of months because things don't always go to plan and as a startup you want to have "a long runway" so that even if it takes a few extra months you can not need to raise funds in a time of weakness where you might be compelled to take a bad deal because you have few options.

I believe Invictus should be able to essentially presell another 10% of Bitshares to fund its creation, but I disagree with them taking more than 25% in this way.   If that was the dicision that was to be made, they needed to do it before the first set of promises were made. 

59
General Discussion / Re: Angel Shares Feedback Requested
« on: December 15, 2013, 09:40:45 pm »
I don't think the deal should be improved for existing Protoshares holders, that deal should just be the deal.  If PTS holders want to sell their PTS to Invictus in exchange for AngelCoins, that's a voluntary endorsement by PTS holders of the new AngelCoins idea and if the price is advantageous you'll find people doing that.

Regarding the number of coins, one of the dangers Mastercoin faces is someone forking it and creating a version that has more opportunity for people to buy into them, I believe all mastercoins are held by less than 1000 individuals which sounds pretty centralized to me.


60
Meta / Re: PTS Price
« on: December 15, 2013, 09:28:30 pm »
The hope is they'll learn to consider their words carefully before introducing the idea that everything could change, regardless of if they perceive that change to be good or bad.  Change is the problem, not its directionality.

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