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Messages - CoinHoarder

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31
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: June 11, 2017, 04:39:44 am »
Wow. 100x increase from the lows.

And that's before the next 1000x in the Billion Hero Challenge!

Appreciate the efforts Stan.  +5% +5%

Give me a break. This is the 100th time Stan has endorsed scammers claiming their project will be the next big thing for Bitshares. This is just a random pump in a random alternative coin bull market which is pumping random coins arbitrarily. What goes up must come down.

Stan endorsed the following as the latest and greatest things for Bitshares:

Protoshares...
AGS...
Tried PTS2.0, but no one was having it...
Used Kevin Harrington's name...
MUSE...
VOTE...
DNS...
Play...
Identabit...
Lottoshares...
Peak Venture Group...
Bitshares ATMs...
Banx...
Bitshares Stealth...
Mutual Aid Societies...
Steem...
EOS...

Stan talks to an old lady at the grocery store and spins it as if Oprah will be investing her net worth into BTS tomorrow. Now something with the dumbest name like "HERO" is going to be Bitshares' savior? lol. There's so much elaborative scamvertising on that web site that I would be wasting my time tearing it apart. IMO, he is just stringing us along so we don't come after daniel and company for breach of contract (AGS/PTS/etc.)

32
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: June 10, 2017, 10:04:00 pm »

33
General Discussion / Re: Bancor: Smartcoins With Infinity Liquidity
« on: May 14, 2017, 07:26:41 am »
In my own words (someone correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm still trying to understand it):

Bancor's Smart Tokens are backed by the real assets they contain, which are autonomously held in reserve funds.
Smart Tokens can consist of a single asset or a basket of assets.
Smart Tokens have an infinity amount of liquidity, liquidity of which is not dependent on finding someone to match your buy/sell order.

The price of Smart Tokens is calculated as: Price = valueHeldInTheReserveFund / ( totalSupplyOfTheSmartToken * anArbitraryPercentageWhichIsDefinedWhenASmartTokenIsCreated)

This price moves with the amount that is bought/sold, because it is continuously recalculated for every fraction of a coin bought or sold. For instance, when selling one Smart Token you would get a different price for every 0.000000001 of that one token.

The higher the arbitrary percentage, the less volatility there will be in the Smart Token's price due to there being more reserve funds for every 1 Smart Token coin.

There is no spread since both a buy and sell price are calculated with the same formula.

When the price of a Smart Token changes due to a buy or a sell, it then creates arbitrage opportunities for market makers who have incentive to correct the price closer to the value of the reserveFundValue / totalSmartTokenSupply. If the Smart Token is under or overvalued then an arbitrageur can instantly liquidate or purchase the Smart Token and profit by selling it on an exchange. This opportunity is amplified because there is immediate and unlimited buy/sell liquidity without the need of someone to match an order with, which increases market depth.

Optionally, the Smart Token issuer can set a fee for each exchange which can be reinvested back into the reserve fund. This increases the Smart Token price with every time an exchange takes place, because the value of the reserve fund increases compared to the value that was transferred. This works similar to interest bearing Smartcoins in Bitshares.

34
General Discussion / Re: Bancor: Smartcoins With Infinity Liquidity
« on: May 14, 2017, 07:14:11 am »
Is there a distilled rundown of how the algorithm works?

The explanation in the whitepaper is fairly easy to follow.

Quote
Advantages of Smart Tokens

Smart tokens introduce multiple advantages over the traditional exchange model:

1. Continuous Liquidity​ - Since purchasing and liquidating is done through the smart
contract, smart tokens are always liquid, irrespective of their trading volume.

2. No Extra Fees​ - The only mandatory fees applied by a smart token are the blockchain
platform fees (gas) which are relatively low.

3. No Spread​ - Since the price calculation is done algorithmically by the smart token, the
same price applies for purchasing and liquidating the smart tokens.

4. Predictable Price Slippage ​- Smart tokens allow pre-calculation of the precise price
slippage, based on the transaction size, before it is executed.

5. Lower Volatility - ​A smart token with a 10% CRR (for example) is comparable to an
exchange with 10% of the entire supply of a token in its order-book at all times, forming
substantial market depth. In a typical crypto-exchange, the share of the supply in the
market depth at any given moment is well below 1%. The higher the CRR, the lower the
smart token’s price volatility. The lower the CRR, the more “new credit” is created relative
to the original reserve amount.


Quote
A New Method for Price Discovery

A smart token utilizes a novel method for price-discovery which is based on a “Constant Reserve
Ratio” (CRR). The CRR is set by the smart token creator, for each reserve token, and used in price
calculation, along with the smart token’s current supply and reserve balance, in the following way:

Price = Balance / (Supply * CRR)

This calculation ensures that a constant ratio is kept between the reserve token balance and the
smart token’s market cap, which is its supply times its price. Dividing the market cap by the
supply produces the price according to which the smart token can be purchased and liquidated
through the smart contract. The smart token’s price is denominated in the reserve token and
readjusted by the smart contract per each purchase or liquidation, which increases or decreases
the reserve balance and the smart token supply (and thus the price) as detailed below.
When smart tokens are purchased (in any of their reserve currencies) the payment for the
purchase is added to the reserve balance, and based on the calculated price, new smart tokens
are issued to the buyer. Due to the calculation above, a purchase of a smart token with a less
than 100% CRR will cause its price to increase, since both the reserve balance and the supply are
increasing, while the latter is multiplied by a fraction.

Similarly, when smart tokens are liquidated, they are removed from the supply (destroyed), and
based on the current price, reserve tokens are transferred to the liquidator. In this case, for a
smart token with a CRR less than 100%, any liquidation will trigger a price decrease.
This asynchronous price-discovery model works by constantly readjusting the current price
toward an equilibrium between the purchase and liquidation volumes. While in the classic
exchange model price is determined by two matched orders in real-time, smart token prices are
calculated over-time, following every order.

The above formula calculates the current price, however, when a purchase or liquidation is
executed, the effective price is calculated as a function of the transaction size. The calculation
can be described as if every transaction is broken up into infinitely small increments, where each
increment is changing the smart token’s supply, reserve balance, and thus its price. This ensures
that purchasing the same amount of smart tokens in a single or multiple transactions would yield
the same total price. Additionally, this method ensures that the CRR will be kept constant and the
reserve can never be drained. Essentially, the effect of the transaction size on the price (due to its
changing the smart token’s supply and reserve balance) is incorporated into the effective price
for any transaction. The mathematical functions for calculating price per transaction size are
presented further in this document.

Using this method, the Bancor protocol can enable liquidity and asynchronous price discovery for
existing standard tokens -- through smart tokens holding them in reserve, enabling backward
compatibility.

Quote
A Solution to the Coincidence of Wants Problem

The coincidence of wants problem , in the current asset exchange model, creates a situation
where assets are required to be traded at a certain minimal volume or else face liquidity risk.
The cause for this limitation is that the chance of finding a second party with opposite wants to
exchange with, correlates to the asset’s trading activity level. Smart tokens solve this problem
through the use of reserve tokens which embed market depth directly into the smart token’s
smart contract.

Smart tokens are a technological solution​ to the coincidence of wants problem for asset
exchange, rather than a labor-based solution as used in traditional (or decentralized) exchanges.
The current laborers in asset exchange are the professional market-makers who provide liquidity
and facilitate collaborative price discovery. In the domains of information exchange and trade, the
technologies of writing and currency replaced labor-intensive solutions (speaking and barter) with
technological ones, creating mass efficiencies for societies and unlocking collaboration on a
global and intergenerational level. The Bancor protocol proposes to similarly advance the domain
of asset exchange by replacing the need for labor with a technological solution to the existing
coincidence of wants problem.

The above describes is effectively describing Bitshares' Smartcoins when it refers to "labor-based solutions".

35
General Discussion / Bancor: Smartcoins With Infinity Liquidity
« on: May 14, 2017, 03:31:30 am »
What do you guys think of the economics behind Bancor? I would ask on Bitcointalk, but I think this is the best place to have this discussion. I am still digesting the economics of it, but essentially the Bancor project is purporting that they have conceptualized a way to create Smartcoins with infinity liquidity.

https://www.bancor.network/
https://www.bancor.network/whitepaper/en
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1789222.0

So far the best proposals I have seen for highly liquid Bitshares Smartcoins are:
- Using inflation to provide autonomous market depth:
https://www.docdroid.net/2OcoImM/autonomous-smartcoin-liquidity-funded-by-dilution.pdf.html
- Tonyk's idea to make BTS unspendable, thus all BTS trading would take place on the BTS chain (unless exchanges program a special IOU trading module specifically for Bitshares trading... which is unlikely IMO due to the risk/reward):
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21409.0.html
- Using a worker proposal to use reserve pool funds to create smartcoins and sell them into the market at feed price plus 10%:
Discussed many places
- Using inflation to pay people to provide liquidity, similar to how Nubits does (this was not the reason Nubits failed btw):
Again, discussed many places.

But... the main question I am proposing in this thread... has Bancor come up with a better idea than all of the above (and better than Bitshares' historical idea of a "if you build it, they will come" mentality)?

[off topic]
If the economics of Bancor are sound, then this could be a Bitshares killer considering the DEX space is getting quite competitive recently (some implementations of which are better IMO, as far as decentralization goes). Again, IMO, Smartcoins is one of the last few things Bitshares has going for it.

In the DEX space... you now have:

Bitshares (derivative and IOU based)
cons: derivative and IOU based
pros: convenient and more established market

Waves (IOU based)
cons: IOU based
pros: highly funded project, big userbase and hype, clean and easy to use GUI

Supernet is apparently nearing a release of a DEX (autonomous multisig)
cons: multisig
pros: convenient and hold/trade real assets, not derivatives

Blocknet (atomic swap based)
cons: Have to download the entire blockchain, but this inconvenience can later be reduced to simply running SPV nodes of coins you want to trade. This inconvenience could technically be further reduced by building a multi coin SPV wallet which is integrated in the Blocknet wallet.
pros: fully decentralized, no IOUs and no derivatives or IOUs

Honorable mention to: B&C Exchange ... although the Nubits dev abandoned the project, they did conceptualize a great idea for how to implement a DEX that would be superior to IOU and derivative DEXs.

There are too many autonomous multisig and IOU-based DEX projects to list really...

Considering Bitshares is derivative based and/or IOU based, I value it around the same level as other autonomous multi sig, derivative, and IOU exchanges. I think Blocknet has the best design for a DEX thus far (as long as it is made to be convenient by implementing multicoin SPV wallets directly in the Blocknet client).

So, that leaves Smartcoins as Bitshares main "killer feature", which is why I am interested when new smartcoin-like proposals come out.
[/off topic]

36
General Discussion / Re: Dan's Next Project - EOS Rears its Head
« on: May 14, 2017, 02:40:41 am »
That doesn't really address any of permie's concerns (concerns that I also share), though. I'd like to believe Dan is willing to look out for the best interests of all his creations, but...I have my doubts at this point.
 
:-\

Just like he looked out for the best interest of Bitshares' bitUSD by creating Steem Dollars?

He is so ashamed of himself that he won't even come here. I think that answers your question...

Stan championing the previous Bitshares merger is also quite funny. So when will BTS Vote and BTS DNS be active on the BTS 2.0 chain Stan?  ::)

Do you really think the BTS community is going to fall for the bait and switch a second time?

37
Just curious... will Dan be working on the Peerplays project now that he has left Steem?

Dan's working on his new project EOS.

Hmm, yeah. I figured that out. Thanks!

I am skeptical to invest in Graphene forks that dan is not participating in, because all of them have failed and never made it to a public release. I hope Peerplays will run against the grain.

38
General Discussion / Re: Next Committee Proposal: Witness Pay
« on: May 08, 2017, 06:48:12 am »
Witnesses should be paid nothing, zilch... nada.

In such a scenario, they will be compensated from the value rising due to the amount of BTS in circulation being lowered from burned fees and the token value rising due to demand staying the same (or increasing due to deflation).

$95,900 a month is ridiculous for  23 delegates. That is what... ~$4169 a month for doing nothing? Give me a break..

1- Should we consider how much the witness "ideal" guy is worth on the real world? (ie. how much a (even Junior) SysAdmin gets paid)

No, running a witness node is stupidly easy. Junior level SysAdmin skills are not a necessity. I could write directions easy enough to follow that my grandma could do it.

2- Should we consider the 24/7/365 requirement aspect of the witness job? (you can sleep, have week-ends and holidays, but you still have to "go to the office" in a timely manner no matter what the day and time is)

No. When was the last time witnesses had to do anything? They haven't even needed to update their nodes in what... over a year? lol. There is zero maintenance required due to the lack of non-GUI bitshares development.

3- Should we consider how much other blockchains spend (invest?) for their own security? (ie. how much BTC, ETH, etc spend, compared to market-cap) (even other dpos like STEEM and soon PEERPLAYS)

Since when has Bitshares cared about what other blockchains spend securing their blockchain? Especially when 99% of them are doing it wrong. That is one of the biggest selling points for dPoS... it is cost efficient.

4- Should we consider the current profitability of the DEX DAC?
   4a- If so, should it be able to greatly increase what the points 1,2,3 would suggest?
   4b- If so, should it be able to greatly decrease (or even reset) what the points 1,2,3 would suggest? (ie, no profit for the DEX == no profit for the witnesses --> witness pay = costs of running a witness)

No, it requires the same amount of work for witnesses no matter the profitability of the DEX.

Maybe more tough (and subjective?) questions:
5- How much is the whole blockchain task, security and decentralization worth? (this is what a witness really do, from a pure blockchain pov) (looking at point 3 may help)


Raising witness pay does not increase the decentralization of the dPoS consensus algo. Neither does lowering it, as you will always have the same amount of delegates.

Security with dPoS is obtainable without delegates leeching off of the ecosystem. I plan to release a dPoS-based coin to prove this point (that is, if no one beats me to it). dPoS is the ideal consensus algorithm for a deflationary asset, which is what Bitshares was initially championed as. Unfortunately, Bitshares has wavered many times from that path with much dilution through mergers etc.

39
General Discussion / Re: Dan's Next Project - EOS Rears its Head
« on: May 07, 2017, 11:45:01 am »
The ICO for BithSharesX  has been one of the fairest there ever was in crypto. Why not use the same model again? Sharedrops, mergers, mining will not make it fair, just more confusing and more easier to get advantage for insiders.

I can agree with that. Unfortunately they took two steps back with the Steem model. When BM came to the forums and told everyone they should check out Steem and mine it, I thought it was simply another Graphene fork that would probably never come to fruition. Just like the few forks before that had been advertised on the foeums. I didn't realize Dan himself would be developing it. I would have participated if I had known that.

40
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: May 06, 2017, 12:52:34 pm »
The price rise is a direct result of three things:

Diminishing confidence in Tether
An increasingly ALT/Bitcoin bear market
The fact you can't buy bitusd on exchanges anymore.

People are hedging a crypto bear market with bitusd. Notice the uptick on bitusd volume and market cap the past 3 days.

If bitusd stays off of centralized exchanges, and bitusd gains more popularity and maintains the peg, expect Bitshares to be a sanctuary in a bear market. But, at the same time, expect it to fall back down when the bear market turns bullish.

41
General Discussion / Re: bitassets market cap in coinmarcketcap wrong?
« on: April 25, 2017, 02:50:57 am »
CMC updates data once in awhile, and the amount of  outstanding bitUSD changes every minute, so no wonder that CMC data is out of sync.

CMC updates every 5 minutes

42
Just curious... will Dan be working on the Peerplays project now that he has left Steem?

43
General Discussion / Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
« on: March 16, 2017, 04:14:42 pm »

Your incessant cheerleading has brought Bitshares so far, please continue...

44
General Discussion / Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
« on: March 16, 2017, 04:12:29 pm »
I think this is a bad idea.  It is speculation, far from a "no doubt" proposal.
It is simple economics, far from speculation... supply and demand, man.

Relying on volunteers is in fact a subsidy. By relying on unpaid volunteers is not a wise way to operate a company, a DAC, and have stability, growth and sustainability.
A true DAC would not have paid employees, autonomous is part of the acronym for a reason.

I am all for volunteerism. BitShares wouldn't exist without volunteers, but for essential operations that maintain the integrity and security of the network in a decentralized manor it would be foolish to remove the incentive for good quality witnesses to do their job.

A "DAC" has certain expenses, such as infrastructure, "witnesses" for example. Name a not-for-profit company in the real world that is not subsidized and is also self sustaining AND GROWING.
Delegate expenses are unnecessary at this point in Bitshares' life. It can stand on its own two feet. What business would not cut unnecessary expenses?

I don't even think you could technically call non-paid delegates volunteers, as certainly they have enough skin in the game to make it worthwhile due to the appreciating value of the token that would result from their running a delegate node.

Now that there is very little development and client updates, running a delegate node requires little to no effort.

Where were you @CoinHoader when the discussion about witness fees took place? Are you aware witness pay was recently doubled in an effort to improve feeds and witness involvement?
I have given up on Bitshares, as have most of the crypto speculators. I own no equity, and would not recommend investing in it. I just thought I'd pop in and suggest this idea is all. Do with it what you will.

Doubling delegate pay seems like a horrible idea though. A failing business that is bleeding cash should be cutting expenses, not increasing them, and it is even more so idiotic to be doubling them.

45
General Discussion / Re: A plan to revive the value of the BTS token
« on: March 16, 2017, 03:51:16 pm »
.
on a serious note,  bitshares will be very expensive should it ever scale, and you need professionals for that. can't expect shareholders to do this stuff.

It will never scale as-is. Bitshares is becoming less and less relevant in the crypto space with every day that passes. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole at this point.

Anyways, what I proposed could be done by committee, so it could be reversed if that time did come.

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