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Messages - clayop

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General Discussion / Re: What if we let the registrars set the LTM price?

« on: February 04, 2016, 06:56:08 pm »

Quote from: jakub on February 04, 2016, 06:19:22 pm

Quote from: clayop on February 04, 2016, 06:03:35 pm
Why he's not a businessman in this case? Do you think the CEO of Alipay is not a businessman too?

My point is this: if he's a businessman (as I'm sure he is), he'll sell LTM for zero only to those customers who would not have bought LTM in the first place.
So no network's income is actually lost. What is lost is *theoretical* income that would not have materialized anyway.

Quote from: clayop on February 04, 2016, 06:03:35 pm
And your approach is based on the same assumption. LTM fee decrease -> more demand for LTM / Transfer fee decrease -> more demand for transfer

I don't understand why you associate more demand for LTM with transfer fee decrease.

I meant that you argues LTM fee decrease -> more demand, while you opposites transfer fee decrease -> more demand for transfer. It's ironical.

And I get your point - price differentiation. But it cannot be applied when the product is exactly same. If you can get LTM for free, why would you like to pay for it? There can be some reasons, such as informational barrier, but I believe people will move to zero cost registrar quickly.

General Discussion / Re: What if we let the registrars set the LTM price?

« on: February 04, 2016, 06:03:35 pm »

Quote from: jakub on February 04, 2016, 05:59:59 pm

If you say he'll sell LTM for zero to customers who could have bought it for more than the current minimum price of $20 - well, you are right, the network would have lost some revenue.
But that would also mean that bitcrab is not a businessman.

Why he's not a businessman in this case? Do you think the CEO of Alipay is not a businessman too?

And your approach is based on the same assumption. LTM fee decrease -> more demand for LTM / Transfer fee decrease -> more demand for transfer

General Discussion / Re: What if we let the registrars set the LTM price?

« on: February 04, 2016, 05:46:05 pm »

Quote from: jakub on February 04, 2016, 04:55:30 pm

Quote from: xeroc on February 04, 2016, 04:44:05 pm
The biggest problem that I have with this proposal, is that you are proposing to give a way one of the biggest sources of revenue of the network it self. It's not just the referral program that makes money out of it, but also the network itself. How would you compensate for that?

I think this is a misconception.
I'm not giving away "the biggest sources of revenue of the network".

Actually the opposite is achieved here: I'm trying to maximize for the network the revenue stream from sold LTMs .

What scenario would you choose?
- bitcrab treats the referral program as a "trouble maker" and sells 20 LTMs a year. Network's income: 20 * $100 * 20% = $400
- bitcrab embraces the referral program and sells 2000 LTMs a year (some of them for free but with an average price of $10). Network's income: 2000 * $10 * 20% = $4000

bitcrab will do his best not to give LTM for free, if he feels some of his customers could pay something for it.
So he'll most probably give away LTM for free only to those who would not buy LTM anyway.

He is most likely to sell ltm at $0. In this case how can you compensate the network income?

General Discussion / Re: Real-time Market Making Bot Kkachi is Live on OpenBTC Market

« on: February 04, 2016, 09:46:20 am »

Quote from: karnal on February 04, 2016, 09:35:41 am

Quote from: tonyk on February 04, 2016, 05:46:08 am
I mean any smart coins trading coming anytime soon or huhu nono?

My thoughts exactly. I don't want to hold 3rd party UIAs, might as well leave them at MtGox then.

If there's a BTC gateway with flat fee, Kkachi can make bitBTC markets. Potentially Kkachi algorithm can be used to (T)CNY-BTS market thanks to transwiser.

General Discussion / KKachi is on OPEN.ETH:OPEN.BTC market!

« on: February 04, 2016, 04:23:12 am »

Kkachi (magpie) is a real-time bot that provides liquidity to OpenBTC-based market with lower spreads.
If you want to trade BTS with BTC, use OpenBTC and Kkachi! You don't need to move your BTS to Poloniex or other exchanges, and do not have to wait for super long 50 confirmations hoping that the price not changes much.

Kkachi now supports real-time price detect, multi-currency, and multi-bracket order. It seems quite busy because it's real-time and has price sensitivity because of low spread.

Compare the price with other exchanges and decide. I'm pretty sure that Kkachi will provide you with great service and good price.

It will provide OPEN.ETH - OPEN.BTC market when available. So stay tuned!

Muse/SoundDAC / Re: Unanswered question thread

« on: February 02, 2016, 12:44:31 am »

Quote from: Marky0001 on February 01, 2016, 06:56:07 pm

Quote from: TravelsAsia on February 01, 2016, 06:53:09 pm
Quote from: Marky0001 on February 01, 2016, 06:28:18 pm
- what about the exchanges?
- poloniex, chinese exchanges?

- if you are raising new funds what relevance will our muse investment have then? I mean not a single word about muse and liquidity

There's been a few of us already in contact with the exchanges (ClayOp, Xeroc and myself come to mind). I know Xeroc was following up with Poloniex, I will follow-up with Bill from Bittrex tonight. Not much luck on the Chinese exchanges so far from my end.

so why are exchanges not interested?

I was pushing Muse in the poloniex trollbox and someone said "No reason for adding muse, because it will be dead soon anyway"

No i might understand why poloniex is not adding...

What will happen? People will dump to sub 100sat? The liquidity is key right now. Some weeks ago MUSE had over 30k of volume, what was this?

btw: thats the link to the article from Germany:
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/digital/lieder-kaufen-im-internet-nach-bitcoin-blockchain-soll-musikindustrie-auf-den-kopf-stellen-1.2751548

They should. Because they still have customers MUSE for pts.

General Discussion / Re: [Survey] Do you like Kkachi's service?

« on: February 01, 2016, 11:15:53 pm »

Quote from: noisy on February 01, 2016, 11:09:14 pm

Could you share source code of this bot? I would like to write a similar for http://testnet.bitshares.eu/ to create a demo environment with liquidity on all markets.

All market includes smartcoin markets? Since Kkachi cannot work on smartcoin markets, it maybe not helpful..

General Discussion / [Survey] Do you like Kkachi's service?

« on: February 01, 2016, 10:59:54 pm »

Kkachi is a liquidity providing bot in OPENBTC markets on DEX. Currently it's playing with BTS and OPENDOGE for testing purposes.

Do you like Kkachi? Or not?

If you have any suggestions, please let me know.

P.S. I'm planning to make OPENETH-OPENBTC market when available. Sounds good?

General Discussion / Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal

« on: February 01, 2016, 07:25:38 pm »

Quote from: jakub on February 01, 2016, 07:21:15 pm

Quote from: clayop on February 01, 2016, 07:11:53 pm
Just one point too: the success of referral program is not determined by the fee level, but by how many times people use BTS system.

With lower fees, you can make enough referral income, if your customers use BTS system actively. Why do you think low fee hurts your business? Please give me the number.

Over and over again, you keep making this assumption: low transfer fees = high number of users.
If this assumption is false (i.e. the correlation between transfer fees and number of users is weak) your whole argument collapses.

Actually not. I agree with that lower fee does not attract many transactions.

However, as we see now, high fee can drive out some business models. It's not inclusive. If we can only support a single business model - based on referral program, can we have as many as services compared to when we have lower fee system?

100

General Discussion / Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal

« on: February 01, 2016, 07:23:03 pm »

Quote from: onceuponatime on February 01, 2016, 07:15:43 pm

Quote from: clayop on February 01, 2016, 07:11:53 pm
Just one point too: the success of referral program is not determined by the fee level, but by how many times people use BTS system.

With lower fees, you can make enough referral income, if your customers use BTS system actively. Why do you think low fee hurts your business? Please give me the number.

I was not talking about referral income, but of STEALTH income. Why would anyone use STEALTH at a premium fee for small purchases from a mobile wallet, or for small transfers of funds?

Stealth must have much higher fee than basic transfer I think.

101

General Discussion / Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal

« on: February 01, 2016, 07:11:53 pm »

Just one point too: the success of referral program is not determined by the fee level, but by how many times people use BTS system.

With lower fees, you can make enough referral income, if your customers use BTS system actively. Why do you think low fee hurts your business? Please give me the number.

102

General Discussion / Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal

« on: February 01, 2016, 04:58:08 pm »

Quote from: Akado on February 01, 2016, 01:12:18 pm

Quote from: clayop on February 01, 2016, 01:51:30 am
Quote from: alt on January 31, 2016, 12:37:48 am
Quote from: Akado on January 31, 2016, 12:24:25 am
Where's bitcrab's plan then? What does he intend to do? How does he intend getting more users? What plan can he shows us that his business model can outcompete OpenLedger? That way people might consider him. Until then, they won't.
what bitcrab have done for BTS?
he is the fiat gateway for bitCNY
look at bitCNY and bitUSD market, it's bitcrab who make bitCNY peg CNY more better.
he had develop a whole system, exchange from bitCNY to fiatCNY automaticly.
and he never asked for 1 BTS from community.
before bitcrab, gulu is the gateway for fiatCNY, but his business is manual, bad user experience, and community have give a 100% delegate to sponsor gulu.

also, bitcrab have ask btc38 to accept bitCNY, TCNY
he have ask yunbi to accept bitCNY also, but had been refused, because they don't want to spent more time for BTS, they have lose interesting for BTS.

and bitcrab have try to find a USD fiat gateway
and maybe many other things I don't know

No replies on this post :p
Cannot rebut?

lol this is the kind of comments that lead people into useless attacks against each other. I simply didn't see it.

I didn't ask what he has done. I asked what is he going to do. What's his plan. Alt didn't understand my question giving a reply that has nothing to do with what I asked (it happens) an I still get provoked? I really hope you didn't do this on purpose and was simply a joke, which is fine, otherwise these kind of comments are useless and only contribute to unnecessary discussions. If I reacted like Ken I would already be flaming and turning this into a fight.

I could argue the same about other questions that have been asked but that would simply be childish.

So I will ask again. What is his plan in the future with the lower fees? And to be even more specific, this is not an rhetoric question aiming to insult his business plan or understimate it, I merely want to know what he plans to do. Continue with what he has done so far or take advantage of the lower fees to do something else?

I know this is strectching it but assuming he has good relationship with chinese exchanges, with lower fees does he intend on trying to convince them to run on top of BitShares like OpenLedger? Given that lower fees could open the door for that.

Your question makes no sense to me. What is the better plan than making the current business profitable (or at least out of danger)? Other guys can give you a good plan because their business has not started yet. But bitcrab's business is running now, and in danger. If this continues, the next plan will be closing the business I think.

103

General Discussion / Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal

« on: February 01, 2016, 08:32:02 am »

FYI... Ethereum charges 0.01 ETH ($0.02) per transfer for all users, while we charges 30 BTS ($0.10). Oh I forgot LTM... yeah you need to transfer 833 times to recoup LTM fee.

104

General Discussion / Re: poll for the "1 BTS for transfer" proposal

« on: February 01, 2016, 05:11:04 am »

Quote from: kenCode on January 30, 2016, 09:45:25 am

Quote from: bitcrab on January 30, 2016, 09:30:16 am
the current BTS referral program are not welcomed in China.

How the f*ck would you know? Or.... the referral program is not welcomed by YOU?

Get real. Go out, hit the streets, take an honest poll of the Chinese people en masse. Ask them if they would like to receive $50 for every lifetime member that they sign up. Go to a college campus and have some kids go out and canvas with you.

Get out there in the real world and see how many people you can talk to about Bitshares, get them excited, start a Meetup group, show them the mobile wallet, send them 100 BTS, get them signed up on ccedk.com or OL, shake some hands, encourage others to do the same.

Your hubris far outweighs my ability to describe it.