Nice thought experiment, but I think the original model, were shorters paid interest to longs in bitUSD or bitEUR was much better. This should be reintroduced in my opinion... as an alternative at least to the current interest-free bitUSD... perhaps the bondmarket as well.

I understand the logic behind this... but people would not like to see such experiments and they might not understand it, as the whole project is already called an experiment...

Ok, I want to give you a vision and the reasoning behind it, why BitShares might have enormous potential in its CURRENT state.

I am very sure for myself that the entire crypto-marketcap will go from the current 15 Billion USD to a 100 or 500 Billion marketcap. I do not know which currencies will contribute to it, if it is Bitcoin, Dogecoin, Ethereum or The DAO... but I am quite sure that within the next few years the total marketcap will skyrocket from the current 15 Billion.

If we assume only a 100 Billion USD marketcap and there is no exchange which runs away with the money of their users:

• reaching 100 Billion some of the Bitcoin users, who know more than latecomers, will diversify into the second tier of cryptos, some will buy into BitShares... I think this can easily be 1-5 Billion... I suppose that even current permasceptics will run out of shares to sell very soon.
• there will be many times more volume searching for a counterparty-risk-free smartcoin like BitUSD, so liquidity starts as premiums for selling bitUSD will go higher because of demand, as BitShares rise because of demand shorting bitUSD will be more interesting than in a falling bitshares market, tying bitshares as collateral
• everything depends on SmartCoin (bitUSD/bitCNY)demand in my eyes... fees and so on I really do not see this as something crucial for the marketcap... they might even be ZERO...
• the only serious USD smartcoin is bitUSD... NuBits are out of the race leaving everybody broke already...

If we assume only a 100 Billion USD marketcap and there is one or more exchanges who run away with the money of their users:

• people will consider storing their wealth instead of MtGox in part in bitUSD, how much might that be if the cryptomarket is a 100 Billion worth.. no idea... but assuming they want to park 2 Billion... than Bitshares has to skyrocket to at least 10 Billion marketcap in my eyes

Please... this is only a vision... do not base any investments on this. Many will argue that the 15 Billion Marketcap is already too high and that it will come down in short time... Also all the cryptoprojects are loosing money right now or deluting... be it Bitcoin or whatever.
Others say that now the exchanges have proven to be trustworthy and that MtGox is already forgotten... newcomers might not even know what MtGox is... So even entrusting these exchanges with 100 Billion USD in cryptos and another 50 Billion in trading money in FIAT might not be a problem. So if these points are what it is... than surely there is no need for a DEX and you should all dump before it is too late...

Imho this is not the case and that we just should give it some time and thanks to the witnesses and so on who manage so beautifully that the 3 second blocks work without a hickup.

 

I love posting to BTS bulls... They defend their investment like it's their only child.

People have been screaming "rock bottom" since 30 million market cap.

and OkiDoki,  I've already divested a significant amount of BTS into other projects.  And you are probably right about bank stocks being a better investment now than BTS.  Government bonds would be better too since you won't be down 20-50% in a month (unless the world blows up of course).

Dump it all and get it over with... 

Hold your cash... I think we see BTS sub 7 million market cap much sooner than we see 14 million.

The trend of lower highs and lower lows will most likely continue.  Especially if the bottom falls out of bitcoin when people realize that the halving was baked into the price.

If I see such optimism I tend to think that we are at rock bottom

I think the announcement from Dan marked the absolute lowest point... although I think Bitshares doesn't need him anymore it has all the important features... and wait if another exchange runs away with the money of their users... being the marketcap of bitcoin a 100 billion...

Quote from: okidoki on June 03, 2016, 04:44:59 pm

Quote from: arhag on June 03, 2016, 04:34:22 pm

Perhaps this will be easier after November 5th when there is (presumably) less sell pressure from the merger to compete with sell pressure from worker proposals. Although, if someone was willing to defer selling until after November 5th (and say wanted to keep the majority of revenue in BTS), then BitShares already provides the ability to pay from the worker in vested form such that it cannot be sold prior to November 5th. So if a credible developer was willing to take such a deal for something that added value to the platform, there should be no reason to delay that work until after November 5th (other than anti-spending zealotry).

Can you please elaborate on the type of sell pressure regarding to Nov. 5th? Have they gotten shares all the time and after this date they do not get anything anymore, or will they get access to all the shares Nov. 5th at once?

They have been gradually vesting over two years.  Some people claim them as they come free and immediately sell them generating downward pressure on the price like Bitcoin mining fees.  Others have yet to claim any of them, or do so in infrequent chunks.  After two years they will all be vested and available to sell or spend.  Right now, about 80% are already out there, with the last 20% slowly releasing between now and November 5.

Thanks Stan for clarifying this. Good news in this case! So only a 100 million to go... I think this was definitely holding down Bitshares for the last 18 months...

Welcome back, Jakub! Could you comment on this post please: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21230.msg288507.html#msg288507

You bring up some interesting points.

I agree that we need a replacement for bm. Someone who has a vision and can be a driving force, towards that vision. However, I think that vision should be mostly non-technical. Graphene provides us with a very stable codebase. The blockchain is ticking along nicely. We have a few items in the queue that should be finished, like free transactions (see above), but I don't see any major changes being required.

Rebranding is a tricky subject. DEX has a much better ring to it than BitShares, IMO. In my understanding, the origin of the name BitShares is the connection from BitCoin to company shares, putting an emphasis on the difference between currency and stake. Depending on what happens to BTC after the reward halving, it might be a good idea to get rid of the "Bit" in the name altogether.

I also see the built-in exchange as the most powerful asset that we currently have. SmartCoins are practically dead. Currency tokens are having a difficult time trying to gain traction. But the exchange just works nicely, it's fast and secure!

Since I'm very sceptical about Steem, I'd strongly recommend to not rush to integrate ideas from Steem into our codebase. IMO Steem is going to crash heavily after July 4th. It has nothing to offer for us.

I think you are rushing your conclusion that SmarCoins never will be used... give it some time... BitShares 2.0 has been there for only 6 months for god's sake... If Bitcoin would have been altered after 6 months rebranded and so on it might have never gotten traction.

Quote from: okidoki on June 03, 2016, 02:26:40 pm

Bitcoin has not had any innovation for 7 years and look where it is...

You are comparing apples and oranges. Bitcoin is successful despite its lack of innovation. That is how powerful the first mover advantage is.

Counterpoint to your argument: Ethereum has innovated a lot and isn't stopping yet and look at its marketcap rise.

Ethereum has a big market cap because for years everybody was fantasizing about what this could become. but in reality it is not used for anything right now... and as there is almost no scalability I think it will never be used for anything but speculation... Lisk is a lot smarter in several things than Ethereum and it might be used someday for something. But the real massive usecase in my eyes are the financial apps like BitShares, although there are and will be many issues with regulators.

Also Bitcoin is on top because of its liquidity. Chinese cannot enter and exit Bitshares without moving the price at this point. They use it for protection from devaluation from CNY... but you cannot pump even a million USD in Bitshares without doubling the market cap. So for this type of usage they have to use Bitcoin until volume and market cap goes up for BitShares.

I see nothing wrong with the name BitShares, I'd like to leave it alone. The name itself screams what we do. "bit" saying something to the geeky minded that we are a digital company of some kind and "shares" which says company shares to me. It's a place for businesses to go.
 
Making rash decisions right now because the market cap sits is not a good idea. BitShares Munich is out there (as you can see everywhere) striking up relationships, deals, partners and bringing investors now for marketing and they LOVE our name.