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Messages - Thom

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1501
General Discussion / Re: Beyond Bitcoin Mumble Server Now Up
« on: September 21, 2014, 05:22:38 pm »
Yeah, I finally figured it out. Guess you missed my PM to you about it.

I heard about 20 minutes of it before I had to leave. Will an MP3 of it be posted somewhere I can listen to the rest of it?

1502
General Discussion / Re: HELP! This thread needs reason!
« on: September 21, 2014, 05:19:38 pm »
What do you hope to gain by collecting posts of bad arguments / misinformation here in the choir space?

I've seen other posts here on the forum (I believe many are from you or you're at least a contributor) discussing threads on readdit etc. and people being set straight invitro, and that makes sense; it's a form of evangelism & marketing.

But here? What purpose do you have in mind?

1503
General Discussion / Re: Open Transactions Promise
« on: September 21, 2014, 05:06:28 pm »
IMO Open Transactions is a centralized solution disguised as a decentralized one.

I'm not even sure how disguised it is...but wondering if the functionality/api can be leveraged for a decentralized use on blockchain.

Indeed, it didn't appear disguised at all. In the voting pools video Justus R. states "...this is a client-server model not a blockchain model."

1504
Technical Support / Re: Does the X of BitSharesX stand for eXperimental?
« on: September 21, 2014, 04:11:05 pm »
Here is a good place to  start:   https://ieonline.microsoft.com/#ieslice

What is that? Any chance you can provide a URL that I don't have to opt into some MS bullshit?

Thanks!

1505
KeyID / Re: confused - KeyID and DNS DAC
« on: September 21, 2014, 04:04:28 am »
Pls excuse the noob question: what is TLD? Is it Top Level Domain?

1506
KeyID / Re: Agent86 wins again
« on: September 21, 2014, 03:43:13 am »
It does seem like what's missing is how a domain owner can "give back" to the DAC and how that is measured. It should be a meaningful metric but not an onerous one. Most won't like it if "giving back" entails much effort or thought. About the only thing on my mind regarding an ICANN domain is when it expires and where I bought it.

The only things I can think of in terms of value add are more of a delegate type of function, like an ICANN to BitDNS bridge or search service or some type of rep system or rating service.

1507
KeyID / Re: Agent86 wins again
« on: September 20, 2014, 10:59:02 pm »
To me it sounds like this lease + auction system completely destroys the usefulness of BitShares DNS as an actual domain name system, while making squatters' wet dreams come true.

IMO the concerns raised by Empirical1 and gamey in the thread referenced above are valid and were not addressed (at least not in *that* thread).

I too am a "lowly tech type" as gamey described himself. I am now a BTSX shareholder b/c I believe in I3's whole DAC perspective. My first foray into this tech was thru Derrick S & MWD. That's my background into this, but I am even more interested in a DNS DAC than BTSX.

I tend to agree with the above comments. Whatever is rolled out needs to be a practical replacement for the current ICANN DNS system, and IMO that implies names must be awarded for some period of time without fear of it being lost to another, stronger influence during that rental period.

The auction scheme sounds pretty good to me, but once a name is "won" it should be settled for some X period of time.

Why not have different classes of rental periods? The longer term rentals will cost more than shorter periods. I don't see much of a market for names without a way to deterministically have control over a it for a known length of time.

1508
I'm quite impressed with your very methodical approach :)

The voting process is simpler than you imagine, you get P votes for each delegate, so your total voting power is simply P*101. Here's a quote from BM on the topic in another thread:

With approval voting each individual can approve up to 101 delegates with their stake.  If you don't approve of a full slate (101) then you are effectively abstaining with 90% of your voting power.

Thanks cvk, I really appreciate that!

Couple of followup questions:

1) Regarding what you quoted BM saying, why did he say 90%, and why is it irrespective of how may delegates less than 101 I may choose not to vote for?

2) Can you confirm if these statements are correct:

Bitcoin minors simply look for the next prime number in a sequence (based on the agreed upon algorithm) and the first miner to find it and use it to encrypt (or sign) a transaction block is awarded the number of bitcoins for that era of the award schedule (50 initially, then 25 etc).

Bitshares delegates don't have to solve a CPU intensive task and race to sign a transaction block as with bitcoin. Rather, one of the 101 delegates is chosen in a random sequence to sign the next transaction block. The 101 delegates are chosen by popular vote of the DAC shareholders.

1509
Technical Support / Re: Does the X of BitSharesX stand for eXperimental?
« on: September 20, 2014, 04:38:32 am »
The X in BitSharesX stands for eXchange. BitSharesX is live, it's the final chain. If there is to be any related offspring there will be a snap-shot from itself.

ProtoShares were renamed to PTS due to trademark issues, it's the same thing.

So PTS is or isn't the same thing as BTSX?

1510
Technical Support / Does the X of BitSharesX stand for eXperimental?
« on: September 20, 2014, 02:44:19 am »
And is there a PTS DAC or is PTS the obsolete "ProtoShares" that have now evolved into the BTSX DAC?

What is the roadmap to going "live"? Will my BTSX shares have to be transferred to a new blockchain or will the current bc just evolve and grow as the toolkit code matures?

1511
Now that I'm a shareholder I feel the need to ramp up my understanding so as to make informed decisions, such as how to select delegates. I've discovered the bitshares wiki on github and am reading up there. I'm also studying the topics on wiki.bitshares.org.

Given the rapid pace of development "getting up to speed" is a moving target. My current level of knowledge is fairly low (releative to this community) so the dated materials shouldn't be much of an issue for me, and I plan to tune in to the mumble media and stay abreast of bleeding edge changes and what's coming down the road. I just watched Patrick Byrne's keynote address video at the bitcoin conference in the Netherlands, and an interview with him on Audio Triangulation. Loved both of those, really excellent talk.

I'm particularly interested in the delegate selection process, and just what factors are important to consider in choosing delegates to endorse with my votes. Until I feel I have a good handle on things I'm not intending to be an active trader, more of a sit & hold shareholder. Nevertheless, selecting delegates is one responsibility all shareholders have, and I take it seriously enough to be informed so as to make wise choices.

I find the bitsharesblocks.com webpage intriguing and informative. But before I can make informed decisions about 101 out of 881 voting delegates to choose from, I want to thoroughly understand the mechanics of exactly what the blockchain is, what a bitshares transaction is and how a delegate affects those elements.

I think a small relevation just occured to me: bitcoin minors simply look for the next prime number in a sequence (based on the agreed upon algorithm) and the first miner to find it and use it to encrypt (or sign) a transaction block is awarded the number of bitcoins for that era of the award schedule (50 initially, then 25 etc).

Bitshares delegates don't have to solve a CPU intensive task and race to sign a transaction block as with bitcoin. Rather, one of the 101 delegates is chosen in a random sequence to sign the next transaction block. The 101 delegates are chosen by popular vote of the DAC shareholders. Precisely how the full voting power of each shareholder (whose strength is proportinal to the number of shares in the DAC they own, i.e. is relative to their stake in ownership) is used to vote for 0 to 101 delegates I have yet to understand.

Lets say shareholder S has voting power P between 0.0001% to 99.9999% of the stake (owns P% of the stake). S can vote for 0 to 101 delegates. Is the strength of his vote for each of the 101 delegates equal to P / 101? If S only voted for a subset of the 101, we'll call that N, would the strength of his votes for each of those delegates be equal to P / N ? Are the votes applied equally for all delegates or if S only votes for 10 delegates can he choose to back 8 candidates with 5% of P, and 20% of P for one and 75% of P  for the other?

The delegate voting system is where I get confused, assuming I understand the other aspects correctly as I described above. My study continues...

1512
General Discussion / Re: Beyond Bitcoin Mumble Server Now Up
« on: September 19, 2014, 06:45:40 pm »
I'm trying to get on in real time for the first time today. I thought these were on Friday (today). In the past I've only listened to MP3s of them after the fact.

I'm trying to figure out the certificate thing. Do I just have mumble create a new one, or is there some type of linkage into bitshares authentication through the client? My mind is quick to link things when they're not always related, like crypto keys within the bitshares client and mumble certificates. Separate animals, right?

If I create a cert in mumble and provide name & email, why doesn't it ask for a password? If I try to connect mumble says "Wrong server password  for unregistered user account..."

What am I missing?

1513
 +5% Thanks guys, your answers are helpful. Every bit helps build my understanding!

1514
I am not aware of any 'secret' or delegate-only code in Bitshares X.
Now, *svk has done his share of coding to make this site, but the basic functionality comes from the  BTSX client itself...

You seemed to misunderstand. I never said or implied that anything was secret; I was only speculating about the code base required for delegates to fulfill their role. What you seem to be saying if I understand you correctly is that all of the functionality required to sign transactions and do everything on the bitshares network - examine blocks, get delegate stats, find users, send shares to other accounts etc etc, are built on a single toolkit. The same toolkit everyone has at their disposal is what svk used to obtain the info on his BitsharesBlock website. It's the same toolkit the client app is built upon.

That is good to know. If I want to get into those details I'll turn my attention to code development discussions, presumably found elsewhere here on this forum.

My only interest in such technical underpinnings right now is to understand how things work, in more detail than most discussions but less detail than looking at lines of code. I'm looking on the net now to find such intermediate info or possibly a bitcoin developer that could answer some of these basic blockchain oriented questions.

I do need to be cautious however b/c of the significant architectural differences between the bitcoin and bitshares networks. It might therefore be better to find someone like svk to discuss such things with, but I probably need to refine my questions and focus on specific things starting at the top and working my way down in detail.

I will state my apologies in advance and ask, is there a better place to be posting such questions? I don't wish to become a PITA as I learn this stuff. Fell free to point me elsewhere if you think my newbie questions are too basic or are already answered elsewhere.

Regarding the DPOS paper / website Daniel published on April 3rd linked above, I have some questions that span the range of the higher levels of abstraction down into lower (code oriented) levels.

In the background paragraph Daniel says there are two problems to solve: 1) selecting a unique node to produce the block and 2) making the ledger irreversible.

For bitcoin, producing a block is a computational algorithm of work performed by the miners. My understanding is that work is finding the next prime number in a cryptographic sequence such as SHA256 or SHA512 for example. How finding that relates to a transaction I'm not sure exactly.

I hear discussions that give me the impression transactions and the prime number searches are entirely separate things, yet other discussions where the prime number found is used to "sign" transactions. Does signing the transaction just mean to encrypt it with the prime number key? Is a signed transaction the same thing as a block on the blockchain, and the word blockchain and ledger are synonymous terms? If the transaction is encrypted (and thus it's contents private) does the blockchain include metadata for public info to support messaging, account registration / delegate info etc?

I'm pretty sure what Daniel is referring to when he says "selecting a unique node to produce the block" is what the delegates do in DPOS or who comes up with the longest series of signed transactions in the bitcoin network. The irreversibility problem relates to how much effort is represented by each subsequent transaction, such that going backwards in the chain to unlink those transactions essentially becomes impossible. Is my understanding of this correct?


1515
If you are anywhere near IT, you should not be afraid to run the client and execute commands in it...That's just my way of thinking...I am no pro in that field though.

I'm not afraid to do that, it's an interesting suggestion. I've looked briefly at the console and list of commands and it is quite large. It would be a rather tedious way to learn. I've got decades of SW development and some IT experience. The BitharesBlocks website has info that seems to come from a vantage point not available to client nodes. I could easily be wrong but in my mind there seems to be 2 major pieces of code: 1) the client node software, currently version 0.4.15-a and code used by delegates to sign / create transaction blocks.

If all of the info on the BitharesBlocks website comes from the same version 0.4.15-a client software I'm running (using python scripts or API calls available in the client), that surprises me. It doesn't shock me, just not the picture of the code architecture I had envisioned. That's the reason for my questions.

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