My short order at 315 didn't match, even though there is a margin call order whose call price is 318. My short at 310 did. The lowest margin call's price is at 310. So I put a new short at 311. It didn't match.

=> So, new interpretation : the margin price with the lowest indicated "call price" must be covered first at this call price ? Regardless of the 10% above the feed price thing ?

I know that most people here don't actually try to use the market and don't want to short, but come on, this market is our product, its inner workings must be crystal clear.

Currently on the internal market, there is an order to buy bitUSD at 339 BTS/bitUSD, and short orders to sell at 320. They don't match.

I guess that is because there are uncovered expired shorts, and the price feed is at 290. 290+10% is just under 320. So it seems that shorts cannot be sold while there is an expired margin order not covered.

Is that correct ? Is that a bug or a feature ?

Quote from: Stan on April 29, 2015, 10:11:39 pm

This also means that, right now, a lot of BTS are being transferred into stronger hands making this less likely to happen in the future.

How can you conclude this is really true?
Have you ever thought that the opposite scenario could be more likely? (that we are loosing stronger hands...)
let me explain...

Considering from my self (and not only) I have lost more than 80% of my "investment" because I was shorting all the way down to this prices... I never sold BTS, except to cover my old short positions and to open new short positions... I have no more money to invest and soon if we continue the decline I will loose all my bts to cover my last short's...
So one is sure! My money have not gone to stronger hands... maybe not weaker BUT NOT TO STRONGER HANDS...

If I am the only example here, then I must agree with your analysis Stan... but if out-there are many supporters in a similar position like me (and maybe your top supporters) ... I would consider "You need to think bigger, Pinky!"

Same here. I'm actually closer to 90% loss, because I bought at the highest, believed in the bull threads all the way down, and kept shorting. It's crazy how many say they believe, but shorting is not for them. You can sustain the system ONLY by shorting. Of course you're at risk, especially if nobody else does, like what's happening now. As I see it, the crash is due mainly to shorters having to sell. Useless altcoins don't have such sell pressures.

The price matters a lot because bleeding all the shorters is CERTAINLY not a good idea. I would want to see the BTS whales giving strong signals by shorting near the price feed.

Quote from: skyscraperfarms on April 28, 2015, 11:22:47 pm

Because the market rules suck for shorts. I lost near 25% of my BTS because of it.

Unless you lost specifically because of the bug, I dont think you lost due to the market rules.


The reason people lost BTS is because:

* Short bitUSD means being MARGIN LONG BTS.
* If you are MARGIN LONG anything, and that thing just goes down and down and down, you lose a huge chunk of it eventually when you get margin called.  Depending on your leverage, and how much it goes down, and the margin call, its quite possible to lose absolutely everything.


Many people here just do not have experience with margin.  If you just buy and hold something (like buy and hold BTS), it is okay to just never sell and hold no matter how much it goes down.

But if you are on margin you CANNOT do that.  You must have a stop loss and sell to cut your losses at soem point, or you will get margin called any lose it all.

Thats what happened in BTS.  People who have never been on margin before shorted bitUSD because they were bulish on BTS.  But instead BTS went down a lot, and they lost a huge amount of BTS.  So they think "this is bullshit", and they get mad, and they sell all their remaining BTS.


The problem is that shorting bitUSD was something that was really for professional traders to do, not for average BTS holders.  And yet a bunch of us normal BTS holders shorted bitUSD and got burned by margin.  (I didnt.  I got burned by margin in other things years back and will never use it again, so I have never shorted bitUSD). 


Anyways, I think that there are a lot of people out there who lost because of their margin position going against them, and are now blaming BTS.  Its not BTS' fault that thats how margin works.   If you bet on margin on are wrong, you have to lose your BTS, because your BTS is going to the people who own bitUSD, because that bitUSD is worth more BTS now.  Thats how it works.

Yeah, we all should have bought BitUSD instead of shorting them, how silly are we. Wait...

It's not that difficult to understand that you increase your exposition to BTS, you don't need to be a professional trader to understand that.
But here is what do sucks :
- you cannot cover with the collateral
- when you partially cover, you don't get the covered collateral. Obviously you should make numerous little short orders, but that's only obvious afterwards.
- the 10% rule after 30 days. Combined with the fact that nobody wants to short new bitAssets, this creates a sell pressure at 9.99% above the feed price when cove time happens

Today, supporting BTS means shorting some bitAssets so that people like me, who believed in all the vision and bull threads and kept shorting, could exit their short positions and get some rest, forget about al that shit, hodl those BTS and come back in a month with a smile without having to watch coinmarketcap.

Proposed action plan : the tons of BTS in the hands of developers and those infamous 30M by FMV should short BitAssets in order to stop the "f*ck I have to cover" sell pressure.
I shorted myself to death and I've lost almost everything, and what I am the most angry about is the fact that almost nobody is shorting. Obviously, shorting seems quite stupid now, it's a bad move in a decision game, but without shorters, the sell pressure to cover at 10% price will kill the price.

"Yeah but we will have BitAssets 3.0 so never mind those BitAssets 1.0 shorters, I won't short". I really like the features of BitAssets 3.0. But claiming that they will cohabit ? That's not a solution.

bugs still exist in the market place, according to the designed rules, some BitUSD/BTS orders should be traded but now they do not, even the old  users are disappointed for this, please try to fix the bugs ASAP.

This is crucial... Losing money because of bugs is excruciating. It's sad and probably very telling how many long term believers /people that invested much time and energy have become disappointed (on the top of my head, I'm thinking of tonyk, toast, Ander... Rune and Methodx are not active anymore).
Every geek I met is excited by what bitshares can offer. But currently, if the proof of concept is here, it still doesn't deliver as promised. Get rid of the bugs, have a working market and a flawless user interface, only then people won't jump out of the ship. At the moment, acquiring new users that aren't nerdy enough to believe in the vision is useless.

Thanks ! We need such updates every week, not only on april fools day ! 

Yes, thank you ! 
Shorting frenzy !