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Messages - Ander

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General Discussion / Re: My plan for how to make Bitshares succeed
« on: November 06, 2015, 01:05:15 am »

But 1A may hurt gateway partners, since their main source of income is market fee (trading fee).

If Gateway partners are the referrer of their users, they would get 80% of the fees, correct? 

I think you have to execute some command to claim the saved BTS or something like that.

General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: November 06, 2015, 12:38:40 am »
One more thing: it makes my eyebrows go up when everyone encourages each other to buy BTS with borrowed money. That is not investing -- it's gambling. Slow and steady wins the race.

Sorry for our loss  :(

I totally agree.  When people are going crazy margin on BTS it makes me want to sell, because it means the price it is at is nto really sustainable because those people have to sell later to cover.

If I had known just how much people were margin longing at the top of the september pump I wouldve sold and been in better shape now. :P

General Discussion / Re: Best Exchange Website
« on: November 06, 2015, 12:04:56 am »
I suggest changing the black background,  or give the user the option to switch to a white or lighter color background.

According to a study made, 50% of the population suffers from astigmatism which makes reading light letters on dark backgrounds hard on their eyes.

We should have night mode and day mode imo, like polo.  I love night mode.

Technical Support / Re: BTS supply growth -- worker voting
« on: November 06, 2015, 12:04:02 am »
Also: - keep in mind it doesn't take into account accumulated BTA fees

I think we need to make this take those accumulated BTA fees into account.  Because really they do not represent inflation in BTS, right?  But they make the graph look like BTS is inflating.

Technical Support / Re: BTS supply growth -- worker voting
« on: November 06, 2015, 12:02:21 am »
If I understand the 'refund400k' worker, this worker basically recycles pay back into the reserve pool, meaning that we arent actually paying anyone.  The purpose of this is so that this is the cutoff point, where all workers below it will not get paid.  Is this correct?

If this is the case then the current state looks good to me, we really arent paying any workers other than funding a pool to use to pay for UIA fees so that people can use assest without paying high fees, which seems liek a fine idea.

General Discussion / Re: My plan for how to make Bitshares succeed
« on: November 05, 2015, 11:56:31 pm »
I like this. My only conflict is with the order at which things would be done. But I guess that's debatable.

Really the different parts are meant to be done in parallel, not in order.  So I dont think we actually disagree there.

General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: November 05, 2015, 11:48:26 pm »

Basically, markets gonna market. If the project is a success, the price will follow.

Agreed.  The manipulation only worked because of a combination of Bitshares 2.0 not being up to some peopels expectations + sell the news drop + bitcoin rallying hard causing all alts to drop.

The market determined Bitshares must fall.  The actual method of how it fell ended up being as described, with some whales profiting and some margin users getting liquidated.

General Discussion / My plan for how to make Bitshares succeed
« on: November 05, 2015, 11:44:47 pm »
Starting from the ideas in threads like this:,19791.0.html

Here is my plan of ideas that Bitshares needs to execute on in order to succeed. 
This plan involves several parts, some of which can be done at the same time by different people, in parallel.

Part 1: Fix what is broken and add new needed features.
1A: Fix trading fees.  The fee for a cancelled order becomes X, where X is as low as possible, and only exists to prevent spam attacks.  The fee for a completed order becomes Y + Z%.  Z% is initially set to 0.2%, and can be modified by shareholder vote in a delegate proposal.  Y is a small value used to prevent spam, it could be the same as X.  0.1 BTS is preferable imo.
MOST of the trading fees should come from the 0.2% fee!  Not the flat rate that is used to prevent spam!
Lifetime membership reduces these amounts by 80%.  Therefore, a lifetime member pays 0.04% fee instead of 0.2%, which is much lower than almost all the exchanges out there!  This makes lifetime membership attractive.  It makes referring people attractive, since you get a large cut form their trading.  The referral program still works!

1B: Implement margin trading just like poloniex system.  Implement lending system just like poloniex system.  Lending for the margin trading IS the bond market!!  It works great currently for poloniex, so it should work for us, we just have to get it working on the blockchain.

1C: Implement prediction markets. 

The most important thing about this is that we are not reinventing the wheel like we tried to do in Bitshares past, but instead we are taking the trading system and margin system that already works, and is used by all exchanges, and just copying it and implementing it on the blockchain.  We just take what works, and make it decentralized blockchain technoogy, instead of a centralized 3rd party exchange that users must trust, and that gets hacked and loses their funds.

Part 2: Improve the UI. 
2A: Take a poll of bitcointalk users.  Ask them what exchange interface they like best and what they want us to emulate. 

2B: Implement this UI, or license it from a partner, or get 3rd parties to develop this for us.  The bitshares core dev team needs to work on Part 1 of my plan, which is their area of expertise anyway, we really need the UI improvements to come from a partnership or from using or licensing what already exists that people like.

Part3: Attract users.
3A: Make it easier to migrate from 0.9.2 to 2.0.  This will help us get more users (like me!) who are not as technical and had trouble migrating and therefore couldn’t use 2.0 yet.

3B: Referral system kicks in, people promote Bitshares through it, and bring in users.

3C: Continue developing business partnerships, and get these business partners using Bitshares, generating more users, liquidity, transactions, etc.

Part 4: Communicate the plan to the crypto community at large.  Create a roadmap for the creation of these features.  Explain to everyone what we are looking to improve about bitshares 2.0, and why.  Follow the roadmap, and when we reach a milestone, have our marketing guys announce this milestone via press releases, like we were doing this summer.

These four parts of the plan can be done in parallel.  Different people will be working on them.  The core devs are working on Part 1, GUI people are working on part 2, the community plus our business partners plus marketing team is working on part 3 and 4.

Some of these parts are already in motion.  A bitshares team and community working together to achieve these goals and doing a good job to communicate them to the crypto world would do well and regain the traction that we started to have in the runup to 2.0, but lost after release. 

We need traders to buy in to what we are doing.
We need to provide traders something that works well and is a good experience.
We need to listen to their comments that they dont want to pay fees for cancelled orders, and they want the UI to be simpler to use.
If we do this, traders will want to use us because they can avoid getting goxxed, they can cut their fees from 0.2% to 0.04% with a membership, and they can refer people and make money doing it.

Thank you!  I hope that we can as a community discuss and flesh out this plan and perfect it, and then execute on it and make Bitshares succeed.

General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: November 05, 2015, 11:37:07 pm »
There was a situation a couple of days ago where a 50btc market buy would have been enough to double the price and a 50btc market sell would half the price.
This was on poloniex which has the deepest BTS books.

this means a whale could drop the BTS/USD feed and create black swan events on bitshares which could be beneficial.

Such spikes dont last long, they just give money for free to the peopel who had orders on the books.

Real movements that last take more BTC to pull off, and they require you to continually put in orders supporting the price.  But this is a better way to do it, because you end up buying at much better prices.

General Discussion / Re: Best Exchange Website
« on: November 05, 2015, 11:17:03 pm »
I like all of puppies ideas.

General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: November 05, 2015, 11:14:41 pm »
Not really looking to go broke :)

I was just curious on a hypothetical level how a whale with 50M BTS would profit from manipulations

The way the whales have been doing it is:

1) Put in large buy orders slightly below the current price as support (this requires BTC, not BTS, you need to not be on margin yourself to do this trick).  Place other orders well below the current price.

2) Wait until foolish BTS true believers margin up heavily, relying upon your orders that are near the price.,

3) Remove your near-the-price large buy support, and simultaneously market dump millions of BTS onto the market in a short period of time.  Watch as the foolish BTS true believers get margin called by the polo system, causing them to liquidate into your orders that were way below the previous price. 

Net result, you sold a bunch of BTS and got it right back at a lower price due to the margin calls, making a profit.

Repeat this over and over as long as you have more BTS believers willing to margin.

After reviewing the design of margin trading on Poloniex I think we can do the exact same thing on BitShares.

Lets do this.  This plus a good UI is what Bitshares needs to succeed.

We do not need to reinvent the wheel, we need to copy these WORKING systems that others use successfully, and make them work on a blockchain.

General Discussion / Re: Best Exchange Website
« on: November 05, 2015, 10:51:30 pm »
I will not give my opinion on what to copy. mainly because I do not really like  the polo site, but most people praise it to no end. So I consider my personal opinions a bit off from the majority, in this area.

What do you not like about polo / like better elsewhere?  Perhaps we could combine multiple UI ideas and make something better.

I cannot see the orderbook and the graph or last sales at the same takes scrawling. Maybe my small 15' screen is the issue.

I've also heard more people complain about the fact they need to be constantly scrolling through the page. That seems like an issue.

This is true.

Okay, so what we want to do is copy polo, but make it so we need to do less scrolling.

General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: November 05, 2015, 10:43:58 pm »
Lead dev no, but you can and every BTS holder could.

Yeah but I think as a community we need to be more careful.  Too many people in here got burned on this downtrend and lost their bts by margining.  Try to buy fully paid for more, and use smaller margin leverage you guys!

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