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Messages - xfund

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76
Quote
Did I understand this right? A voters has to vote for at least 14 of 27 delegates that participate in the "Fund program"?
yes

Quote
The question is whether the "FUNDs" voters get for voting are worth anything? Can they be redeemed for CNY or BTSX? If they can plus if the redeemed amount (in CNY or BTSX) is worth a considerable amount of money then the problems described in here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5775.msg77880#msg77880 apply.
Worth:there may be  a little bit.
First  redeemed is buy wall .
Buy wall used : CNY  BTSX USD ROSE.


Quote
But this is more of an academic / theoretical problem at the moment. It is only a problem if bribing for votes is applied at a grand scale...
Stan and Bytemaster are social philosophers;we can experiment。

77
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 关于喂价,空仓操作
« on: September 28, 2014, 02:01:44 pm »
现在btxs的受托人人不好当,时不时要更新钱包版本,还要手动喂价。
就是因为btsx有市场交易功能,以后的dns vote music 什么的dac 应该没有喂价了吧

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9434.0
alt大神的自动喂价

78
新手入门 / FUND受托人教程(自学版)
« on: September 28, 2014, 02:00:29 pm »
喂价--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
参考:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7528.0
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7787.0

(1)git clone https://github.com/Bitsuperlab/operation_tools.git
cd operation_tools/btsxfeed
cp config-sample.json  config.json

(2)安装配套程序:
apt-get install python3
apt-get install python3-requests
apt-get install python3-numpy

(3)按自己的要求修改
vi config.json
i编辑
服务器用户名 服务器密码

 "delegate_list": ["delegate.baozi", "delegate2.baozi"]
按esc :wq
-----------------------------------------
(4)以新的方式运行client(每次都需要)
去./bitshares_client  --server --httpport 9989 --rpcuser 服务器用户名 --rpcpassword 服务器密码

(5)再回到operation_tools/btsxfeed目录
screen
./bts_feed_auto.py USD CNY GOLD BTC

投票链接-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

只需要更改自己的名字

Approve she.bitrose
Code: [Select]
[url=http://daslab.io/scheme/btsx/she.bitrose/approve]Approve she.bitrose[/url]

79
DAC 委托人 / Re: 如何看待bts里的贿选和政治献金
« on: September 28, 2014, 01:47:50 pm »
今天,香港占中。向这些热血男儿致敬。 +5%

80
DAC 委托人 / Re: 如何看待bts里的贿选和政治献金
« on: September 28, 2014, 12:06:08 pm »
BM:
Happy I appreciate the effort you are putting into the ecosystem and hope things go well for you.    One thing I can say is that compared to bitcoin we already have a ton of people reinvesting their fees/profits into helping the community in what ever way they can.

By paying 2/3 to all shareholders he has already helped increase the dividend for everyone and providing incentive for people to take some time to actually vote for him.   If he provides a reliable service then the network will continue to function. 

Lets not demonize people because of a gut reaction to "vote buying".  After all votes are personal property and if you think you benefit more by giving your vote to happy than by giving it to someone else then that is legitimate. 

I would encourage everyone to drop the personal attacks and instead make the case for why voting for some other delegate is *BETTER* than voting for happy.

重要的是:投票要愉快

81
DAC 委托人 / Re: 如何看待bts里的贿选和政治献金
« on: September 28, 2014, 11:55:16 am »
有个村子,村长兢兢业业搞新农村建设,建的像花园(得罪钉子户难免,自己搞十套八套房子难免)。村民,安居乐业(想超生交5000,就不会被强迫人流,其母也不会被关小黑屋)。

严打一来,就进局子了。

然后,新安排了个致富能人当村长。结果,人家啥事也不管,只忙自己的生意。新农村建设资金躺在银行里没人用,计划生育没人管。村民依然安居乐业。

82
Bm:I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.

投票人想要什么,受托人就可以给他们什么。

83
DAC 委托人 / Re: 如何看待bts里的贿选和政治献金
« on: September 28, 2014, 11:30:48 am »
bm和stan并不反对这种行为:
I am not terribly worried about this kind of behavior because market competition to reduce transaction fees will quickly eliminate the potential for profit sharing.

I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.

投票人想要什么,受托人就可以给他们什么。

84
DAC 委托人 / Re: 如何看待bts里的贿选和政治献金
« on: September 28, 2014, 11:16:47 am »
如果从公司角度看,就没有这么多问题:

投票人以投票权入股受托人公司;受托人公司分红给股东。

85
DAC 委托人 / 如何看待bts里的贿选和政治献金
« on: September 28, 2014, 11:13:17 am »
英文区争议:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9384.0
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5775.0

受托人给予投票人分红,可以看做是贿选。

受托人拉票团的付出可以看做政治献金。

FUND两者皆备。

Quote
贿选或俗称买票指利用给予利益给投票人贿赂以换取选票的行为。贿选是一种跟随着选举出现的现象,对于一般对政治没有热情或研究的大众施以小利就能得到支持。

Quote
政治捐献是指金钱或有价物的赠与、捐赠、借贷、垫付或储存,用以影响联邦公职的选举。

Quote
无偿捐助”背后的“红利回报”
西方政党及其候选人在获胜后,当政者一般都按贡献大小原则对捐助方给予“红利”回报,回报的方式包括召入内阁、派驻条件优越的国家任大使,以及制订有利于财团的政策。
一个监管的“灰色地带”
巨额的政治献金不但容易诱使人“做手脚”,而且,因为接受政治献金在很多时候与受贿界限模糊,只要没有明显的利益交换和对价关系,很多人都把自己的受贿推到政治献金上,以此脱身脱罪。
合法性与消除腐败的悖论
“投桃”焉能不“报李”?政治献金的本质就是权和钱的一场交易,只要有利益交换,就无法彻底根绝腐败,因此,承认政治献金的合法性和要铲除其诱发的腐败,本身就是一个悖论。
或应探索新型民主道路
“政治献金”是不能取消的,但有效约束它现在看来也是不奏效的。也许,西方国家摆脱“政治献金”丑闻的真正出路在于,跳出既有的选举形式,探索一种新型的民主道路。

在3i的bitshares系统里,倡导的是全民君主。但,问题来了,都是君主,贿选是不是一种权利呢?

86
我想详细了解一下fund的运作可以吗?谢谢
另我的地址:ccc2ccc
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9098.0

87
中文 (Chinese) / Re: JustDice风格的骰子DAC提议(JDS)
« on: September 28, 2014, 10:39:28 am »
能不能直接fork个btsx的版本,btsx还是在bitsharesx主链上,我们就用btsx来投注。
关系就像mastercoin对bitcoin

手续费直接打到某个bitsharesx账户上就行。据此还可以发行收购私人资产。

88
Does "fund" have any value? Or does the amount of fund just show that you are voting for some of the delegates in the fund group?

See this https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5775.msg77810#msg77810
The happyshares concept would be harmful to any DPOS network if it is applied at scale.

I think the people who vote base on a small bribe does not have enough asset to control the system.
Rich guys who have much voting power will not accept a small bribe.

so,you get my point.after all ,DPOS voting power is not about head count,it's about the amount of the asset.

You are completely right with what you said! I would only be worried if a "voting culture" is established where shareholders do not vote anymore for the best delegates but instead for the biggest pay back.
Like you said there would be little benefit for big stakeholders to vote for delegates who are not the best for the job but give high pay backs. 2 Questions / issues arise here:
1) There is no difference between small and big shareholders here (with small shareholders the pack back is small compared to the effect they have on the delegates approval).
2) If such pay back culture is establish and wide spread once big shareholders might just do the same without thinking much about it because they might not completely comprehend that the benefit/cost ratio is negative here.

One question I have: Do you get "fund" proportional to the amount of stake you voted with or x amount of fund if you vote at all vote a delegate. The last option would be beneficial to the system because it would encourage voting at all...

Normal mode:choose the 100 delegates from the 1000 delegates,for reason:the server configuration ;system maintenance ability ;
In FUND game :choose the 14 delegates from the 27 delegates ,for reason:the server configuration ;system maintenance ability ;reward .

The reward can improve the enthusiasm of retail vote;Why we will focus on retail? Because  they don't care the vote system.

Who will leads to centralization? I think is the dealers .
We are all free , include big shareholders.We are monarch,include big shareholders.
In addition,everyone can cast opposing votes in any reason.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Delegate is a company,
Voter is a shareholder,
You become a shareholder with voting rights;The company to distribute dividends to its shareholders.
                                                                                                                               --------Fund
Bytemaster:
Quote
I am not terribly worried about this kind of behavior because market competition to reduce transaction fees will quickly eliminate the potential for profit sharing.

I say let them do their best, in order to get elected they need to be in the top 101 by shareholder approval and if this is what shareholders want then that is what they will get.

Quote
Happy I appreciate the effort you are putting into the ecosystem and hope things go well for you.    One thing I can say is that compared to bitcoin we already have a ton of people reinvesting their fees/profits into helping the community in what ever way they can.

By paying 2/3 to all shareholders he has already helped increase the dividend for everyone and providing incentive for people to take some time to actually vote for him.   If he provides a reliable service then the network will continue to function. 

Lets not demonize people because of a gut reaction to "vote buying".  After all votes are personal property and if you think you benefit more by giving your vote to happy than by giving it to someone else then that is legitimate. 

I would encourage everyone to drop the personal attacks and instead make the case for why voting for some other delegate is *BETTER* than voting for happy.


Quote
A DAC is a Sovereign Co-op

89
I think this (to a certain degree) could be a thread to the system (which also exists in POW/Bitcoin and POS/NXT). If it becomes the primary focus of shareholders to get tx fees as a reward for delegating their vote then we have two effects:
1) the focus when choosing delegates is not anymore primarily on trustworthyness, tx fees destroyed (dividends for all), delegates performance etc. but on how much the delegate give back to his voters.
2) economies of scale then play a role with dpos as with pow and (nxt) pos: The one that can profitably run a delegate and still pay more of the tx fees back to his voters than any other delegate will will the voters, which leads to centralization.
So it comes down to whether shareholders loose more by harming the system and this way themselves than gain from the pay back. The conclusion then would be a low reward for delegates to tweek the above calculation in favor of the system.

Normal mode:choose the 100 delegates from the 1000 delegates,for reason:the server configuration ;system maintenance ability ;
In FUND game :choose the 14 delegates from the 27 delegates ,for reason:the server configuration ;system maintenance ability ;reward .

The reward can improve the enthusiasm of retail vote;Why we will focus on retail? Because  they don't care the vote system.

Who will leads to centralization? I think is the dealers .
In addition,everyone can cast opposing votes in any reason.

90
找到打不开网站的原因了,得翻墙加载几个google的文件。加载好,就不用继续翻墙了。

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