Quote from: Empirical1 on January 03, 2014, 01:50:47 am

Ah, I've realised why the PTS price might be suppressed by the AGS allocation.

To get AGS you either need to contribute to the PTS or BTC fund.

But most Bitshares believers will already have made their max $ bitshare allocation into PTS.
But when they see that the BTC to AGS address is more lucrative than PTS to AGS they willl want to put BTC into there. However they've already invested their max $ into PTS, so the only way for them to unlock/offset funds for the BTC to AGS address is to sell PTS.

So the BTC to AGS address may inadvertantly create some selling pressure on PTS (by Bitshares believers) that is hard to offset with new demand in the quiet New Year week.

Is BTC to AGS address really more lucrative than PTS to AGS? Take Jan 1st, 2014 for example, there are 61.86 BTC totally to AGS and 2269.99 PTS totally to AGS, the price should be 1/61.86*5000 AGS/BTC=80.82 AGS/BTC, 1/2269.99*5000 AGS/PTS = 2.2 AGS/PTS alternatively. 1 PTS = 0.025 BTC on Jan 1st, 2014, rewrite the AGS/PTS price here, 2.2 AGS/PTS = 2.2/0.025 AGS/BTC = 88 AGS/BTC!!!

What do you really think???

What do I really think? (Well only because you asked the question in such unnecessary big red letters with three question marks.)

I think maybe you're not very smart???

Firstly: Day 1 was closer than you suggest. (PTS was 0.027 not 0.025)

& I think yesterday you will find that BTC to AGS was more favourable than PTS to AGS, which may inspire PTS to BTC selling today.

Secondly: The end of day prices you are using, don't show how the process I am suggesting played out. (Think of the addresses like balancing weight scales, if one gets too full early in the day, people may start putting there funds into the other address to even it out...)

Anyway the point is it's not a bad thing if my idea is partly correct,  because, once the general crypto market gets busier next week, the trend will probably reverse. (Especially when some form of Keyhotee is released, because even though it's not related to Bitshares it inspires confidence in the team behind Bitshares.)

So all it means imo is that this is a GREAT week to buy both PTS &/or AGS  because both are potentially much cheaper than they will be next week.

Could someone update the daily statistics in this or another thread?
I know there are links you can click on, but it would be nice if a daily update was available on this website

Day 1:

Angleshares value in PTS: 2.133 AGS/PTS = 9.50 USD. Total donations today: 2,343.996 PTS = 47,770.64 USD.
Angleshares value in BTC: 80.825 AGS/BTC = 9.28 USD. Total donations today: 61.862 BTC = 46,693.44 USD.

Day 2:

etc.

Ah, I've realised why the PTS price might be suppressed by the AGS allocation.

To get AGS you either need to contribute to the PTS or BTC fund.

But most Bitshares believers will already have made their max $ bitshare allocation into PTS.
But when they see that the BTC to AGS address is more lucrative than PTS to AGS they willl want to put BTC into there. However they've already invested their max $ into PTS, so the only way for them to unlock/offset funds for the BTC to AGS address is to sell PTS.

So the BTC to AGS address may inadvertantly create some selling pressure on PTS (by Bitshares believers) that is hard to offset with new demand in the quiet New Year week.

On Christmas Day I was asking, "Where's the Kaboom?  There's supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"

I honestly think the information just got lost the way it was announced. I thought this thread 'Announcing Angel Shares & BitShares Allocation ' was just about how AGS relates to Bitshares.  I didn't notice till yesterday that you'd decreased Bitshares from 20 million to 4 million.

I guess people will see these posts now, but I also think you should consider starting another announcement thread, because I know I would be upset if I'd missed this. Something like -
 
Attention Protoshares holders:  PTS now worth 5x more Bitshares.

Instead of the initially proposed 20 million Bitshares, there will now only be 4 million Bitshares.
This means that Protoshares holders will now be issued with 50% of all Bitshares. (Up from 10% previously)

See full announcement here -
website -

We are establishing the share allocation of BitShares 1.0 which will have 4 million total shares.  2 million will be allocated proportional to PTS holders and 2 million proportional to AngelShare (AGS) holders.

Hi guys, I just wanted to confirm this was right.

Will there still be 20 000 000 Bitshares in total and AGS & PTS will make up 4 million of that total?
Or will there only be 4 million BTS in total now?

Thanks

Edit: Ok pretty sure it looks like 4 million total from the posts above but just wanted to confirm as makes a big difference.

I was quite skeptical of bitshares initially, but having looked at Mastercoin, I prefer Bitshares, the team behind it and the way you've gone about including the community more.

I have to echo what Gekko has said though, the marketing is super important in terms of inspiring confidence at these early stages. Look at Megacoin, they are an example of being a clone but with a good website and wallet and yet I'm confident they can take the no.3 market cap spot for the interim meanwhile PTS which is the most groundbreaking and profit+, may struggle to stay in the top 10 till bitshares is released.

All you need is a bitshares website that animates that graphic you have of the bitshares icon with the currencies in a circle around it. If you make it 3D and have the currencies turning in a circle, and have them grow bigger when your mouse hovers over them is an idea.
Also succinctly  explaining the bitshares concept on the front page in 1 inspiring sentence.

I appreciate that you guys are some if the best technical guys out there and the marketing is rightly 'fluff' compared to developing bitshares. But in terms of maximising the PTS development budget and inspiring confidence that there is a team that's on the ball and behind this, a sexy website will quintuple the short term valuation which will keep you in the top 10 market caps till launch which is advertising enough for the thousands of people that are looking to invest in the next development phase of this technology. Just my 2cents. (Think of your fav products - they can't wrap them in no name white packaging - as superficial as it is, the branding is key.)

(PS. Please announce if you're going to release a new website so I can buy more PTS b4 it comes online )

To add on to what phoenix is said, don't forget that we are on the verge of decentralized exchanges. Mastercoin, Colored coins, Bitshares itself. Why would we follow bitbtc when we can just look at the value of the real thing.

Thanks for the replies guys.

As the Bitshares video and you seem to say smiley35, it is hard to derive the true value of BTC from centralized exchanges so we would be checking decentralized exchanges to 'look at the value of the real thing?'

But when you say 'why would we follow the bitbtc ratio to derive the value of BTC', do you mean bitshares will be such an insignificant decentralized exchange when compared to Mastercoin/colored coins that most people will be discerning the real (non centralized exchange) BTC value from them instead?


 

Hi newbie here, I didn't grasp all the information regarding bitshares so apologies if the following doesn't make sense...

As you mentioned in one of your videos, all BTC are not equal, the value of the BTC on different exchanges can vary based on things like the perceived riskiness of the exchange & expected time delay for receiving fiat.

Is it possible that Bitusd will trade at a slight discount to a real USD? Because in order to make a bitusd into a real USD you will still have to go through an exchange. So even though that is not the purpose of your exchange,  I think the market will price in the avg. fees, risks and time delay associated with changing a bitusd to real USD?

As also won't the biggest market for bitusd be real world merchants (or companies that service those merchants)?
Right now most merchants don't want to sell for BTC because they don't want to be exposed to the volatility but they may happily sell for Bitusd because then they can capture the BTC market without BTC volatility risk but only if the bitusd price reflects the costs to them of changing Bitusd into real USD. (Unless service companies can deposit real $ into merchants accounts in exchange for Bitusd for less than a 2.5% service charge, then I guess they BitUsd could = Real Usd if merchants are the ones willing to take the fee in exchange for access to the crypto-market the way they currently do with credit cards.)

Edit: I guess bitpay already offers the above service/market to merchants.