1261
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: [Committee Member] Jademont's proposal to join the BitShares Committee
« on: March 23, 2018, 12:08:09 pm »
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1262
General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an committee controlled open market operation fund
« on: March 15, 2018, 03:21:08 am »I don't think this suggestion is "pumping BTS", I think I have expressed clearly that the point is to "adjust smartcoin and BTS supply according to market condition".
You are going to "adjust smartcoin and BTS supply according to market condition". This means that you will try to make actions like Central Banks in most of countries do (they make money emission). And I am sure this actions will be directed to move BTS price up. That's why I say it's "pump". You are going to implement something like "monetary policy" of "Central Bank of Bitshares " and going to decide when buy additional quantity of BTS and when sell it.
But:
1. When Central Banks realize their monetary policy they have calculations and clear vision about the final result. There is no any calculation in your suggestion. You just say "let's try and then we'll see result".
2. Constant changes in the market condition is the nature of every markets, especially in cryptomarkets. This makes it extremely difficult (if at all possible) for any regulations to archive their goals in the longterm.
yes, we may need to introduce economists or CFA to provide more professional analysis and suggestions.
but, I don't think my suggestion is based on nothing, I have suggested to change the force settlement offset compensation and limit to current level, I provide about 20% of current bitCNY and bitUSD supply, I helped magicwallet to build the biggest bitCNY/CNY C2C exchange market, I believe I have enough understanding to the markets.
the so called "Bitshares Central Bank" now has a simple but solid logic base to start, A perfect analysis infrastructure is not ready yet, if you can help to build one, thanks a lot.
trying to do this do not because it easy, but because it is hard.
1263
General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an committee controlled open market operation fund
« on: March 14, 2018, 08:11:54 am »Frankly speaking this suggestion should be formulated shorter like this: "Let's pump bts using reserve pool funds!"
IMHO, the pumping is definitely NOT that thing that Bitshares need "to make Bitshares great again". If somebode wants to pump let him do it with his own funds and not with the reserve pool. This suggestion smels like market manipulation in it's worse kind.
I don't think this suggestion is "pumping BTS", I think I have expressed clearly that the point is to "adjust smartcoin and BTS supply according to market condition".
I think BTS will be great if the problem of smartcoin shortage can be resolved with the help of these open market operations.
I think and also hope this suggestion can help BTS price to go up, but this is not the logic base to do open market operations.
1264
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 对比特股市值管理手续费回收资金池使用规范的细节条款建议
« on: March 14, 2018, 04:59:09 am »这个时候我甚至有了极端的想法，把cny的手续费提高到5%。因为收取手续费是单向的，只会抑制卖出资产得到cny的收益。而对买入资产者毫无影响。同时这会让爆仓者损失更多，但是这样好像会提高资不抵债的倍率。但是如果挂卖单的少了？爆仓的是不是也会更快被吃掉。现在就是抢着卖的太多了，一占掉了流动性，二让爆仓吃不到。收回来那么多手续费再大量吃爆仓，然后吃的时候还能收手续费，这样能慢慢循环起来了。相当于卖方每笔交易都要额外付出5%/(1-5%)=5.26%的价值，比千分之一收得多得多。其实可以考虑一下。可以有效抑制瀑布恐慌，鼓励人们长期持有。这个只能当笑话讲讲。
*增加一个条件就是爆仓单很多很多的时候才用那么高的手续费率，一旦爆仓基本被系统吃完同时系统开始抵押释放流动性，就要退出高手续费率，借以恢复正常的卖出秩序。
你没办法逼谁一定在内盘卖，而且一定在bitCNY交易对卖，你收费高了，用户大不了用脚投票，到别的交易所卖。而对于爆仓卖出的，损失更大了。还有，收5%只会告诉用户，这是一个贪得无厌的交易所。
1265
General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an committee controlled open market operation fund
« on: March 14, 2018, 03:25:53 am »I'll take the current market conditions into considerations when next talking about the BBF worker proposal. So far, it used to buy bitUSD off the market and did not go short on bitUSD yet.
The reasons was mainly due to liabilities against the actual workers that have a right for their pay and going short adds a risk .. as well as for accounting which needs to be transparent and easy to follow ...
I'll re-iterate with the BBF over the previous decision to stick with "buying" ..
something depend on the purpose and operate logic of the worker proposals, the "committee controlled open market operation fund" WP is to give impact to smartcoin supply like a central bank, so definitely it can add more smartcoin supply to the market only by borrowing, buying smartcoin in the market will not help to increase the smartcoin supply.
1266
General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an committee controlled open market operation fund
« on: March 14, 2018, 03:01:13 am »Sounds like a fair enough experiment, however I feel these are to jump start the market and should not be permanent.
-Is there a set liquidity goal where the worker will not be required any longer?
-Plan of action to maintain that 4x collateral ratio in big price down trends? Committee will need to act quick, perhaps daily adjustments required?
-Phase out plan to settle all the outstanding debt if liquidity reaches x goal?
in my opinion it is not defined permanent, but possibly it will last long time.
a metric to decide how to operate is whether bitCNY/bitUSD is over supplied or is in shortage, and the fund need to have enough BTS/smartcoin to give apparent impact to the market while necessary.
I can not tell "how much BTS/smartcoin" does this fund need?" but I think the answer will be clear half or one year later.
I prefer to not let the committee-account to operate each trade/borrowing, let smaller team - committee-cnytrader and committee-trade to do the trade and borrowing activity, committee-account can be responsible for the distribution of the BTS get from the worker proposal.
if sometime in the future a clear trend begin that smartcoin continuely behaves as over supplied, then the the fund will begin to sell BTS and reduce debt position. however, I don't think we should set "close debt position" as a final goal.
1267
General Discussion / suggestion for an committee controlled open market operation fund
« on: March 13, 2018, 03:25:48 pm »
A worker proposal will be created soon with below setting:
we now have 2 committee controlled open market operation accounts: committee-cnytrader for CNY relevant operation and committee-trade for USD relevant operation.
the worker proposal mentioned above has a daily pay of 200k BTS, which will be transferred to the 2 operation accounts for subsequent use, with the collected bitCNY and bitUSD market fees.
below are some suggested principles for the open market operation, surely the principle will be refined in the future.
1.the purpose of the fund is to adjust the supply of smartcoins, so operators need to decide depend on the market condition, borrow smartcoins and buy BTS while the smartoin is in shortage, sell BTS and reduce debt position while the smartcoin is over supplied.
2. operators need to take good care while operate with debt positions, as an initial rough principle, when BTS price is under 2CNY:
while collateral ratio > 4, borrowing more smartcoin is allowed.
while 4>collateral ratio>3, smartcoin income can be used to buy more BTS, but borrowing more smartcoin is not allowed.
while 3>collateral ratio, smartcoin income need to be used to reduce debt position, buying more BTS is not allowed.
3.when more than 10M BTS are accumulated in one operator account, the account need to be locked by setting both active key and owner key to committee-account, a new operation account will be created for subsequent operation.
hope the worker proposal be approved then we can get great power to cultivate the smartcoin ecosystem and also the whole BTS ecosystem.
Code: [Select]
"owner": "1.2.0",
"work_begin_date": "2018-04-01T00:00:00",
"work_end_date": "2035-12-31T00:00:00",
"daily_pay": "20000000000",
"name": "committee controlled open market operation fund",
"url": "https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26107.0",
"initializer": [
1,{
"pay_vesting_period_days": 0
}we now have 2 committee controlled open market operation accounts: committee-cnytrader for CNY relevant operation and committee-trade for USD relevant operation.
the worker proposal mentioned above has a daily pay of 200k BTS, which will be transferred to the 2 operation accounts for subsequent use, with the collected bitCNY and bitUSD market fees.
below are some suggested principles for the open market operation, surely the principle will be refined in the future.
1.the purpose of the fund is to adjust the supply of smartcoins, so operators need to decide depend on the market condition, borrow smartcoins and buy BTS while the smartoin is in shortage, sell BTS and reduce debt position while the smartcoin is over supplied.
2. operators need to take good care while operate with debt positions, as an initial rough principle, when BTS price is under 2CNY:
while collateral ratio > 4, borrowing more smartcoin is allowed.
while 4>collateral ratio>3, smartcoin income can be used to buy more BTS, but borrowing more smartcoin is not allowed.
while 3>collateral ratio, smartcoin income need to be used to reduce debt position, buying more BTS is not allowed.
3.when more than 10M BTS are accumulated in one operator account, the account need to be locked by setting both active key and owner key to committee-account, a new operation account will be created for subsequent operation.
hope the worker proposal be approved then we can get great power to cultivate the smartcoin ecosystem and also the whole BTS ecosystem.
This is an upgraded version of the last post "suggestion for an official market value management infrastructure"
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=26072.0
After reviewing the last post, I now feel it's better to call them "open market operation" than "market value management", here the operator is like central bank, it trade in the market to adjust the supply of smartcoins and BTS.
Now smartcoins like bitCNY have big demand, but are always in serious shortage, this limit the adoption of smartcoins and also the development of trading in DEX.
So currently the main policy of the open market operation is to buy more BTS, and create more smartcoins, mainly bitCNY by borrowing.
As the income from market fee is limited, normally 10k-30k, so I suggest to add fund from reserve pool with a worker proposal.
Now Bitshares has daily budget of about 310k, among them about 240k are go into refund400k work proposal and return to the reserve pool.
I suggest to create a new worker proposal “committee controlled open market operation fund” to replace refund400k, each day about 240k BTS will be collected, with a higher than 4 collateral ratio, more than 50k bitCNY can be borrowed and be used to buy BTS.
We need to make good use of the 1 billion BTS in reserve pool，
I understand that borrowing smartcoin based on collateralizing public BTS bring risk to the system, however the risk is tolerable.
The operation account is a multisig account of committee members under public supervising, not possible to set too lower collateral ratio. When BTS price is under 2CNY, it will be safe enough to set the collateral ratio higher than 4, right?
Committee-account has continuous smart coin income to reduce the risk.
Even the worst thing happen, the result is that the collateralized BTS be sold at a price 10% lower than the market price, no further hurt to the system.
On the other hand, if we just leave the 1 billion BTS sleep in the reserve pool, surely we avoid all the risks, but at the same time we give up the chance to supply more smart coins, create more purchasing power and income and make BTS great.
I believe a community with courage and vision will select to go ahead with tolerable risks.
I'll collect feedback and build details on this suggestion
1268
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 对比特股市值管理手续费回收资金池使用规范的细节条款建议
« on: March 13, 2018, 02:40:32 pm »
这个并不是平准基金，而是更类似央行的公开市场操作资金。
做这个的最主要的目的是根据市场情况调整bitCNY供应量以及BTS的流通量，当然目前的选择是增加bitCNY供应量，减少BTS供应量。
做这个的最主要的目的是根据市场情况调整bitCNY供应量以及BTS的流通量，当然目前的选择是增加bitCNY供应量，减少BTS供应量。
1269
General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an offical market value management infrastructure
« on: March 09, 2018, 01:37:13 pm »supported at a fee of 0.1% and using committee-trade for execution
I prefer use 2 accounts to handle bitCNY and bitUSD trade separately, team members that handle the bitCNY trade need to be close to CNY market
1270
General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an offical market value management infrastructure
« on: March 09, 2018, 09:31:19 am »I agree with the BTS market mangement.I don't agree with you.
But I don't agree with below point of view:
-------
3. Borrow bitCNY/bitUSD by putting the bought BTS into collateral with high collateral ratio and continue to buy in BTS.
-------
I think some of bitCNY/bitUSD should be the fee when use them to Buy other coins but these BTS should not be COLLATERAL to borrow bitCNY/bitUSD.
Then there will be no risk for this account pool.
These BTS bought by fees should be locked for long time or forever, or use this as bonus for some development projects and projects like billionare project etc.
我主要想表达的是bitCNY/bitUSD可以作为交易费用，但是费用池中买回BTS不应该继续作为抵押。使得这个费用池出现任何风险都是不应该的。
而买回的BTS可以作为长期锁仓，或做长远项目费用拨备或支持类似billionare计划。
with enough higher collateral ratio(at least 3) the bought BTS can be put into collateral for borrowing bitCNY/bitUSD. the worst result is that the debt position is margin called and these BTS is selled out in a lower price, no further risks.
just locking BTS there is a waste of resource, with collateral it can add more power to the ecosystem.
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General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an offical market value management infrastructure
« on: March 09, 2018, 05:27:16 am »This proposal would cover all current BitAssets or just CNY & USD?
apply to CNY and USD at first, do not want to cover other smartcoins currently as they have very low trading volumes.
1272
General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an offical market value management infrastructure
« on: March 09, 2018, 03:19:12 am »Generally speaking, charging fees on bitCNY and etc is doable.
However, I don't think those fees would be enough to do effective "market value management".
Say, on average 10M CNY volume a day, and a fee rate at 0.05%, means 5K CNY of income per day. In order to have a working "market value management", I guess we need billions of CNY.
Another possible con:
* charging fees introduces friction, thus may reduce activity, thus may harm reputation of BitShares and price of BTS token.
By the way, why not increase basic network fees? The fees were reduced when BTS is 6CNY each, now BTS is around 1CNY each.
0.05% is really low, if most members from the community agree, I have no problem to set the fee rate to 0.1%.
we need billions of bitCNY supply, but I don't think we need so much just for market value management, after the operation begin, it will not only create purchasing power for BTS, but also change the expectation of traders, leverage effect here, I believe even 10k bitCNY/day will make sense.
I think we can do this first, if necessary, we can also modify the fee schedule later, or even seek more ways to optimize the liquidity.
I don't think such a fee rate friction will reduce the trading activity greatly, central exchanges like poloniex, Bitfinex have higher fee rate but still have big trading volume.
1273
General Discussion / Re: suggestion for an offical market value management infrastructure
« on: March 09, 2018, 03:01:17 am »Broadly speaking, I support the concept of a Committee controlled market bot. Owner set to Committee is required. I have some reservations about Active set to M/N accounts.
Consider the following implementation concepts (for each SmartCoin):
1. committee.smartcoin: Owner, Active set to Committee
2. Each Committee member runs (to-be developed) code locally that:
3. --Calculates which Committee Member is the 'Market Maker Proposer' (highest votes, next highest if Proposal delay exceeds threshold below)
4. --Observes SmarCoin market:
5. ----Market Maker Proposer (MMP) evaluates SmartCoin market conditions for Triggers (OP examples):
6. ----MMP broadcasts Proposed Transaction containing market actions based on Triggers
7. ----Observes Proposed Transactions:
8. ------Evaluates Triggers
9. --------If TRUE: Signs Proposed Transaction
10. The automated decentralized bot should execute the intended market actions using a dynamic set of Committee authorities.
The above rough concept is similar to a Block Producer (Witness) providing Price Feed data by observing and having authority to sign their findings. However, the decentralized bot above requires observations from multiple sources to form the authority to perform the market actions.
interesting concept, however, I believe it will cost some time for development and test before getting reliable bot, we cannot wait while seeing the BTS price go down, we can start from manual operation and migrate to bot while it is available.
actually there is already a committee controlled account committee-trade which has a 3/4 multisig active key, this account do a lot trading in the past and works well.
if we need some enhanced setting for security, I think one choice is to block the committee-cnymaker account when too much(>10M?) BTS accumulate in it by setting both owner key and active key to null-account. and then create a new account to trade continully.
1274
General Discussion / suggestion for an offical market value management infrastructure
« on: March 08, 2018, 02:46:16 pm »
Frankly speaking, Bitshares ecosystem, especially smart coin ecosystem is facing bottleneck, recently the whole cryptocurrencies is in bear market, BTS price also wander in low level, consequently, margin calling happen frequently and smartcoins like bitCNY is in big shortage. When I wrote this, in magicwallet traders need to pay 1.12 fiat CNY to buy 1 bitCNY. AEX, the first central exchange that open bitCNY market, now issue CNC, a token similar to USDT, and adopt it as base currency because now they are not confident that bitCNY can work well and fulfill the exchange demand，if we cannot find solution to overcome these hurdles, “make Bitshares great again” will be hollow words.
The current margin call rule has some flaws, which give BTS shorters big chance to make benefit and bring BTS longer big risk, hopefully the flaws will be solved by a planned hardfork with “sell only required collateral while margin call” feature in 1-2 months, however, even the hard fork happen without delay, it still do not solve all the problems, Bitshares need some infrastructure to do BTS market value management, to bring the ecosystem to a more stable an active level.
I now propose to do “official market value management” to add power to Bitshares, below is the planned steps:
1. Charge market fee for smarcoins like bitCNY and bitUSD.
2.Use the collected fee to buy BTS.
3. Borrow bitCNY/bitUSD by putting the bought BTS into collateral with high collateral ratio and continue to buy in BTS.
With this procedure, more and more BTS will be locked as collateral and more and more smartcoins will be supplied, all this will create incentive and also the expectation for BTS price to go up, consequently this will speed up the grow up of the smart coin ecosystem and then the whole Bitshares ecosystem.
what a market fee for smartcoins is appropriate?
the fee rate should be low enough to keep the user experience as almost same as before, and also should be high enough to provide enough fund for market value management, considering all this, 0.05% should be a good level.
how to manage the whole operation procedure?
create a trading account for each smartcoin, for example create committee.cnymaker for bitCNY operation, the account will be owned by committee-account and the active key will be set as say 3/5 multisig, normally the accounts in the multisig structure are from committee members.
operation will follow some predefined rules, taking bitCNY as example:
Rules for placing/canceling orders to buy BTS:
1. while bitCNY is priced lower than 1 fiat CNY in market, then stop placing new buy orders.
2. while bitCNY is priced higher than 1 fiat CNY in market, place order to buy BTS, with the price at least 1% lower than the top buy order in market.
3. if any exist buy order A is with a price more than 10% lower than the top buy order, cancel order A.
Rules for borrowing bitCNY:
While borrowing bitCNY, the collateral ratio should be set as no less than 3, while the collateral go down to less than 3, stop buying BTS and use the collected bitCNY to reduce debt until the collateral is higher than 3.
Now more decentralized exchange appear in the market, CYBEX，a decentralized exchange forked from BTS with adding many ICO friendly features, is planning to get big share in the market, Bitfinex also plan to develop EOSfinex on the coming EOS platform, if Bitshares cannot make big advance by making good use of its specific advantages, no one can guarantee a good future. I hope everyone can carefully check the proposal and suggest constructively, I hope we have chance to make such a change happen and make bitshares great again.
The current margin call rule has some flaws, which give BTS shorters big chance to make benefit and bring BTS longer big risk, hopefully the flaws will be solved by a planned hardfork with “sell only required collateral while margin call” feature in 1-2 months, however, even the hard fork happen without delay, it still do not solve all the problems, Bitshares need some infrastructure to do BTS market value management, to bring the ecosystem to a more stable an active level.
I now propose to do “official market value management” to add power to Bitshares, below is the planned steps:
1. Charge market fee for smarcoins like bitCNY and bitUSD.
2.Use the collected fee to buy BTS.
3. Borrow bitCNY/bitUSD by putting the bought BTS into collateral with high collateral ratio and continue to buy in BTS.
With this procedure, more and more BTS will be locked as collateral and more and more smartcoins will be supplied, all this will create incentive and also the expectation for BTS price to go up, consequently this will speed up the grow up of the smart coin ecosystem and then the whole Bitshares ecosystem.
what a market fee for smartcoins is appropriate?
the fee rate should be low enough to keep the user experience as almost same as before, and also should be high enough to provide enough fund for market value management, considering all this, 0.05% should be a good level.
how to manage the whole operation procedure?
create a trading account for each smartcoin, for example create committee.cnymaker for bitCNY operation, the account will be owned by committee-account and the active key will be set as say 3/5 multisig, normally the accounts in the multisig structure are from committee members.
operation will follow some predefined rules, taking bitCNY as example:
Rules for placing/canceling orders to buy BTS:
1. while bitCNY is priced lower than 1 fiat CNY in market, then stop placing new buy orders.
2. while bitCNY is priced higher than 1 fiat CNY in market, place order to buy BTS, with the price at least 1% lower than the top buy order in market.
3. if any exist buy order A is with a price more than 10% lower than the top buy order, cancel order A.
Rules for borrowing bitCNY:
While borrowing bitCNY, the collateral ratio should be set as no less than 3, while the collateral go down to less than 3, stop buying BTS and use the collected bitCNY to reduce debt until the collateral is higher than 3.
Now more decentralized exchange appear in the market, CYBEX，a decentralized exchange forked from BTS with adding many ICO friendly features, is planning to get big share in the market, Bitfinex also plan to develop EOSfinex on the coming EOS platform, if Bitshares cannot make big advance by making good use of its specific advantages, no one can guarantee a good future. I hope everyone can carefully check the proposal and suggest constructively, I hope we have chance to make such a change happen and make bitshares great again.
1275
General Discussion / Re: BitCNY Force settlement offset still at 5%?
« on: February 09, 2018, 03:19:01 am »
5% offset does not mean bitCNY peg 0.95 CNY. please understand this first.
currently bitCNY is too scarce and too expensive, not too cheap, magicwallet clearly shows that 1bitCNY worth more than 1.11 CNY.
current time is not a proper time to lower the offset.
currently bitCNY is too scarce and too expensive, not too cheap, magicwallet clearly shows that 1bitCNY worth more than 1.11 CNY.
current time is not a proper time to lower the offset.
