If it was that simple right now, it would suggest a ~62% increase in payments. I see no advantage in expecting reality to fairly match such an artificial spread.

Is there a reason you would expect the current set of approval ratings to carry over at the same percentages into the new style system?

Wouldn't the community simply re-align their votes accordingly?

Mods: This may have been discussed and flushed out in the past, if so, please link to relevant thread and lock this thread.

Idea:

Setting 100% pay rate for the highest approval delegate and paying down a percentage relative to the highest delegate to 3% pay for 101st delegate. (or some differing calculation if the community believes all 101 deserve >3%)

Advantages I can see:

1. Allows community to set varying pay rate per delegate, rather than requiring a re-approval to change.
2. Allows constant feedback on perceived value/performance of delegate.

Quote from: bobmaloney on March 26, 2015, 11:16:58 pm

I have a feeling the terminology is about to get very muddy:

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote



*Edit: 1 BIT share = 0.1 BTC

$500?

It's been there for a while and nobody has been willing to sell.

I think OldMan may be right about this...

I have a feeling the terminology is about to get very muddy:

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote



*Edit: 1 BIT share = 0.1 BTC

Bitcoin grew without MLM help.  Don't forget the world is about to go through a cataclysmic economic implosion.....BitShares simply needs to be there with its products when it does
Hopefully having maintained it's core principals and unblemished trust.

Bingo.

2. We get called scammers and MLM'ers all the time now by some retarded bitcoiners.  Bitcoiners get called drug dealers by some retarded people all the time too. You can't base your life and your business on what dumb people call you.  We already get called names.  True with a 1 tier referral system we will get more of it.  From a multi-tier system we will get even more of it again.  We all had the intelligence and the integrity to repell accusations of being drug dealers because we were involved in crypto. Hopefully we have the intelligence and integrity to repell these accusations too.

This is borderline Straw Man.

If anyone here believes that the negative MLM perceptions will stop at bitcointalk - they have spent far too much time on discussion forums.

Negative attitudes and perceptions of MLM span our entire society and I would guess that this holds for the large majority of the population (especially the demographic that I would consider more likely to be early adopters of any crypto-related financial properties)

3. For those that have the Pavlovian response to MLM, I say get educated first.  A pyramid/ponzi has 2 defining characteristics.  1. There is no product and 2. It is impossible to earn more than your referrer.  We obviously have a great product, but thee is an easy way to put this fear to bed.  Simply have more non-income earning customers than income earning customers.  You achieve that by making the business opportunity less attractive. eg: Payout a smaller percentage of fees as rewards and/or increase the upgrade fee.  And by structuring the tiers so that the first tier gets a much higher percentage than the other tiers you easily guarantee that producers get paid the most and free loaders get paid the least.  ie: people can out earn their referer.

That Pavlovian response is usually quite logical.

I have listed to a couple people pitch their MLM wares, but I have simply had no want or need to belong to a product fiefdom.

Is that what we want with Bitshares? 

Because this MLM proposal is worrying me that we are laying the foundation for our potential endgame in a niche product closed ecosystem.

***I agree that you have a good point with (2.), but once Bitshares becomes MLM, when/where are you going to get the opportunity to explain that difference.

I know that I no longer give MLM pitchmen my attention and most people I know are the same.

How do we get around/over that wall once it is in place?

4. Now that you know what an MLM is and is not, know that some of the largest companies in the world are MLM and billions of dollars are generated from MLM each year. It is just a marketing structure. That is all. One that lends itself perfectly to blockchain technology I would think.

Does this impress anyone?
http://www.networkmarketingcentral.com/2013/02/19/top-50-mlm-companies-global-revenue/

We are expecting a world/cultural changing product and tool with Bitshares, this approach does not seem to align. I am trying, but I just can't imagine a scenario where the benefits outweigh the potential risks.

5. Because we need to have an upgrade fee to be an earner (point 1) we will never be a nice neat and clean referrel program like Paypal was. Even a single tier program will get called a scam.... a lot.

The big difference is that Paypal has laid the groundwork and precedent - We can more easily define Bitshares referral program as such and we can always refer back to it.

I think most would prefer to have more similarity with Paypal than Amway.

7. Quote from world famous marketer Jay Abraham.  "If your marketing doesn't make you uncomfortable you are doing it wrong"

"It is not necessary to do extraordinary things to get extraordinary results." - Warren Buffett

Maybe a PayPal-like simplicity will be the best approach?

The classic Amway business model has been around as long as I have... it must work:
Amway was ranked No.114 among the largest global retailers by Deloitte in 2006, and No.25 among the largest private companies in the U.S. by Forbes in 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway

Quote

Pyramid scheme accusations

Amway utilizes a tiered distribution and remuneration model (the Amway Sales and Marketing Plan) that promises to reward participants who grow Amway's market share through a combination of sales and recruitment. This tiered distribution model relies on Independent Business Owners (IBOs) acquiring and training further Independent Business Owners, which is the principal characteristic of a pyramid scheme.
Harvard Business School of Leadership, which described Amway as "one of the most profitable direct selling companies in the world", noted that Amway founders Van Andel and DeVos:
"...accomplished their success through the use of an elaborate pyramid-like distribution system in which independent distributors of Amway products received a percentage of the merchandise they sold and also a percentage of the merchandise sold by recruited distributors. "

The "pyramid-like distribution system" of the Amway business model led to Amway being accused of being a pyramid scheme. A 1979 US Federal Trade Commission ruling established that the Amway business model is not illegal in the United States.[citation needed]

Robert Carroll, of the Skeptic's Dictionary, has described Amway as a "legal pyramid scheme", and has said that the religion-like devotion of its affiliates is used by the company to conceal poor performance rates by distributors.[72]

You've got to think bigger, Pinky!

If the dreams for Bitshares and Bitshares technology will be considered successful at the size of Amway, it will make a lot of people here wealthy, but a lot of people are here to share BM's initial world changing vision, too.

The LAST thing I would want to see with Bitshares is to see it compared to or associated with something like Amway - I'm afraid that would stunt growth and lock ourselves down to a limited number of users by building up the near permanent wall that the MLM construct typically does to the most consumers.

I think it is safe to say that for the large majority of the population: If they're selling Amway, walk the other way.

Why?

I think most people get their spidey sense tingling when the product being sold is seeing more incentive laid before the salesman than the consumer.



Also, is there any demographic convergence between traditional MLM consumers and anything Bitshares plans to be over the next 5 years?  I don't see it.

I think of all the people I have known over the years involved with Amway, Avon, Mary Kay, etc. - NONE of them are the demographic I would expect any interest in Bitshares.

Whether or not this is "successful" - we should expect the Amway branding - it will come...has NewMine chimed in here yet?


*Edit: I find something like this more agreeable:

I think you're missing the reality of why people do not like marketing of whatever flavour that is:[MLM/ponzi/pyramid/scams/etc]. Only marketeers like MLM because it's a lazy way to a quick profit. Such an approach considers the product as fodder.. single level marketing reward makes more sense here where the product is its own reward. MLM I suspect also fails because people resent earning money for chumps further up the chain. Flat reward is perceived as 100% of the reward to the one who earned it.


I'd suggest that we keep this simple.

There is nothing wrong with a referral fee as reward but that should be a straightforward and time limited - the big long term reward follows from real growth in the value of BitShares. So you could approach it from that direction too.. reward those who do best after the fact.

X% of fees for a year, seems to me really generous as a long standing commitment and if the delegates are widely happy with that, I'd support it.. getting those involve who can create excitement is worth the cost, if it sees a big uptick in userbase.

If X% of fees is not considered enough in the first year, then you could enhance that with a reward based on a league table.. pay to top 10 promoters and celebrate their success each month. There could be a pool account for that or a delegate.. your chance to grab a fraction of a 100% delegate would motivate more than 10 people.

Certainly such an approach as OP, makes more sense than gifting 100% delegates to those who don't deliver. Not having any referral fee, makes no sense.. the more generous that is the more seductive the idea of promoting BitShares.

He is right.

The market for Darkcoin is showing us market demand for privacy (it is obviously very valuable due to the high price of a coin that is essentially a placeholder for Zerocoin).


Question if anyone is willing to entertain it:

Will it be possible to create a Zerocoin-type UIA within Bitshares that will allow for some amount of coin "purification" by trading into and out of?



*Edit: for the cleans