Quote from: JonnyBitcoin on November 04, 2017, 10:28:42 am

Does anyone have any suggestions on how we could fix this issue?

I will never stop repeating: fix margin trading flaws first. Debt should be created ONLY when bitAsset leaves the issuing account. bitUSD sell order is not your debt and should not be counted in total bitUSD supply until this order is filled. We should not need to deposit 2x collateral upfront to issue bitAsset. If you have 1000 USD worth of BTS, you should be able to go ahead and put 1000 bitUSD sell order for BTS, and when this order is (partially) filled, BTS should be automatically added to collateral. We should not need to add funds on top of 2x collateral to close the position, because this is ridiculous.  And there is really no need to keep a separate collateral pool for each bitAsset, because all you care about is that your total debt is properly backed. In case the value of collateral falls, the most liquid bitAssets should be margin called first.

I think this is a sound suggestion and I can see it increasing the supply side.

Are you able to make a BSIP regarding this? That would be a proper push to further the case.

I don't understand too much about trading, but 2 things come to mind:

• A limit order states "I will buy at least x.xxx of asset A with no more than x.xxx of asset B". The limit order is signed with the private key, and cannot be counterfeited. Thus if someone front-runs, the limit order just fails to fill immediately, and remains as an order waiting to be filled.
• Everything is transparent, front-running will eventually be detected, and the witness could loose his (hopefully profitable) position as a witness.

So recently I had some shares I bought on cryptostocks moved over to bitshares by the company. I now have my account and my shares on the account, but I can't figure out how to sell the shares.
I have 45.9 shares in EVETAB and would like to sell them for either bitcoin, or etherium. But I have no idea how.
Please can somebody help me by explaining the process. It was fairly easy on cryptostocks, but bitshare baffles me.
Or if somebody is interested, I'm happy to sell them to anybody who is interested. I have 45.9 shares valued at 0.09341btc. I would happily accept 0.08btc to sell them quickly and get my investment back

• Go to the EVETAB:USD market pair, like this: https://openledger.io/market/EVETAB_USD.
• Offer your EBETAB for as many dollars as you like
• Wait
• You can also let people know you are trying to sell
• If you think people are interested in trading EVETAB, get some bitUSD and offer to buy some EVETAB for a little cheaper than you sell. Get people to join you in trading, and take profit

I have buy orders on the BTWTY:bitUSD market. I will gradually try to buy €3k worth of BTWTY

MarkoPaasila
If the price rises 300% per year on average, and you bought at 2 x feed price, you will need to wait approximately 8 months, and you can force settle your Bit20 to receive as much BTS as you once invested.
You can also put up a sell order at the same premium you paid. I'm sure someone will pick it up. I will buy it from you if you sell it at 1.5 x price feed.




I dont think your post is funny, this is a real issue, its not about what you would buy when get it cheap, DEX this is not a used car-dealership..this supposed to be a market where one invest and risk his hard earned money, I would rather go to poloniex and buy all 20 individually  and sell for market price, before I have to sell for much less because I need money or need cash to buy e.g. Dash, what about that idea?
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Just an idea for everyone here without any special talents like software development:

• Borrow USD
• Borrow something else or deposit some other awesome crypto you don't mind holding
• Check the USD price from coinmarketcap.com
• Set up buy and sell orders at 2-4% spread, 10 orders on each side at 1% increments
• Check out your market every 12 hours

Why?

• You will make a profit once someone else takes your orders
• You will make the DEX look good
• Your actions act like a seed. A bootstrapped market invites more participants
• You can hold your BTS while trading other coins against USD, which itself benefits Bitshares
• You don't take any risk by holding something you fear might crash
• You can diversify within the DEX
• You will need other exchanges less
• People want to trade on the DEX, and together we can provide to them.
• You don't take the risk of leveraged trading, unless you trade in BTS markets

I've done this to the USD:MAID, USD:STEEM, USD:BLOCKPAY, USD:BTWTY, USD:EUR, USD:GOLD, USD:SILVER markets, and next I'm getting some Synereo AMP and Tauchain AGORAS to bootstrap USD:AGRS and USD:AMP markets. Once LBRY and Solarcoin are added, I will do the same to them. I'm doing all this with some €4k, which is all I have.

I'm a little amazed about the fact that I'm bootstrapping or helping bootstrap several markets, while I hold only 1/1,000,000 of all BTS (or something to that degree). What are all other holders doing? How much liquidity and how amazing markets could we provide with all that BTS? Is everyone so afraid, so the keep BTS at Poloniex just in case? Come on everyone! I don't want to brag, but point out that we have everything we need. We can do it by - doing it :-)

EDIT: If you check out the markets, you might notice that I fail to keep all the markets nice. I keep running out of liquidity myself, but then I try to readjust my holdings in order to be able to continue. Then there's the STEEM:USD market, where my orders are tiny compared to one single $6k wall, which makes it look ugly, but so what. The market is working!

If the price rises 300% per year on average, and you bought at 2 x feed price, you will need to wait approximately 8 months, and you can force settle your Bit20 to receive as much BTS as you once invested. You can also put up a sell order at the same premium you paid. I'm sure someone will pick it up. I will buy it from you if you sell it at 1.5 x price feed.

Quote from: MarkoPaasila on March 24, 2017, 12:49:34 pm

How much should I be ready to pay for Bit20 in terms of USD? What will the price be when markets are efficient and price discovery has happened? Do you expect it to continue trading above feed price?

if we dont have liquidity, I want bother to buy into, regardless the price, what good does it do, when price rise but you cant sell. get the liquidity in order and you will have a viable market, I promise
I own a few BIT20 but I do not even bother to look at it, why should I, can buy cant sell for some time to come, takes days or weeks ..there is not a market, its monopoly, just monopoly is over after a few hours, its sad, because I love the idea a lot

I don't know if "price discussion" is the right place to discuss this, but I'll reply here.

Isn't the core exchange rate given a certain weight in the price feed - so the settlement price doesn't solely depend on external sources? Now if that is the case, what if this external price feed already contains the exchange rate of the DEX with a certain weight, as seems to be the case with CMC. If the DEX volume is the largest, it would be the dominant source of the price.

And another thought: If BTS was more expensive on the DEX, wouldnt' people go to Poloniex to buy BTS off the order books, and migrate them to the DEX. And vice-versa; people willing to liquidate BTS would prefer the DEX, after which the BTS would probably stay on the DEX and the user would exit with some OPEN.USDT.

Quote from: intelliguy on March 28, 2017, 08:03:02 pm

However, people always run to where the largest noise is... We're not shooting fireworks off, nor is there any band playing.   We have the quietest party on the block.

"Faking volume" so that the volume listed by third parties increases and we "make some noise". Coinmarketcap ranks the exchanges (including the DEX) by the volume of bts traded in 24/hours.

Currently, the DEX ranks #3 by USD volume. $9,000 traded in 24hrs.
The #1 exchange is Poloniex, who trade $100k worth of bts per 24 hours.
To become #1 exchange (on a single given day) the DEX has to achieve another $90k volume of bitUSD traded vs bts.



Moving up the ranks so fast would get the DEX on a few more people's radars.
It DOES NOT MATTER THAT PEOPLE KNOW IT'S FAKE.
EXPOSURE
EXPOSURE
EXPOSURE

"Faking volume" is trading bitUSD:bts between 2 accounts owned by one person.
It's possible to make about 5,000 trades in a 24/hr period. (1 trade per ~20seconds)
Each trade would cost about 0.5bts.
5,000 trades * 0.5bts fee per trade = 2,500bts in total fees (paid to the network) to fake volume for 24hours.
At a price of $0.0056USD per bts; 2.5k bts would cost $14 per 24/hrs


A "Faker" who wants to boost the EXPOSURE of the DEX, would need capital (a fund of bitUSD and a fund of bts) to use to repeatedly trade back and forth.

If the target is to gain an extra $90,000 worth of volume (to rank #1 exchange):
$90,000(volume) / 5000 (# of trades) = $18.
$18 traded back and forth 5,000 times would produce $90,000 worth of volume, which would show up on coinmarket cap. Raising BitShares awareness, and getting exposure.

$18 is the minimum capital, and it would cost a flat rate of $14 per day.

If the "Faker" had $500 worth of capital, the daily "faked volume" would be $500*5,000 trades = $2.5Million. 24/hr volume. CRAY

Could a worker proposal fulfill this need?


Currently the lowest paid worker advertises on 8btc.com, costing 8,400bts per day.

The same payrate being directed to a "Fake Volume Bot" would enable 5,000 trades per day, costing -2,500 bts per day. This leaves 5,900bts per day to accumulate in the capital fund.

If the worker proposal was accepted and properly/securely implemented:

Day 1: Bot has 5,900bts in capital (worth $33bitUSD). Bot pays $14 in fees to make the trades. The bot "fakes" $165k worth of volume on this day ($33*5,000)

Day 2: Bot has (5,900+5,900bts) worth $66bitUSD. Bot pays $14 in feeshttps://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=post;msg=303984;topic=16894.3315 to make the trades.
The bot "fakes" $330k worth of volume on this day.

...Day 31: After 1 month the bot would have (5,900*31) 182kbts ($1000) accumulated in capital. The bot would spend 2,500bts (~$14) in fees on this day. The bot "fakes" $5,000,000 volume per day after 1 month of starting.

FIVE MILLION DOLLARS OF VOLUME PER DAY

The momentum is clearly coming back, but you are certainly right in that it will take years to get "early adopters" in. This is still the phase where most users are "innovator" types.