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General Discussion / Re: ALTCAP - SMARTCOIN - backed by bitBTC - CRYPTO-CURRENCY COMPETITION
« on: April 11, 2016, 02:00:05 pm »
Pretty Cool
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Pretty Cool
122
General Discussion / Re: Promote BitShares Exchange with a LISK and WAVE auction!! Call to action
« on: April 11, 2016, 01:22:03 pm »i would like that we could setup an escrow account and the community members who are willing to send their Lisk could send some bitshares assets as colleteral for their promise that they will send the Lisk.
How much collateral per Lisk?
123
General Discussion / Re: [Poll] REAL GOLD BLOCKCHAIN?
« on: April 09, 2016, 03:45:39 pm »My contention is that it's suspicious because given the references of much more popular projects it takes a long time to raise that amount of money from a wide investing audience.
Well to help ease your suspicions I will tell you why it did as well as it did vs the others you have mentioned. Simply put, both Augur and Lisk were pure pipe dreams with nothing to show but a pretty page saying they would do something with ethereum that had no connection to regulatory bodies or any kind of registered body that was responsible. Instead you put your money in and hope something comes out of it.
DigiX on the other hand was a 1 year old mature project.. had clear plans based on regulatory requirements on how their operation would work, and already had something to show people. It was very clear who the corporate entity that ran it was involved also. Also look at the nature of what they are looking to do.. bridge physical assets with the blockchain. This is of far more importance application wise, and more easily understandable than other said sandbox experiments.
With all that considered, it easily attracts more institutional investors who are willing to throw more money at it. Perhaps not millions, but if they had ethereum as part of their portfolio putting a quarter million into it would just be a good hedge.
So the lessons that should be learned from this is if you want to see that kind of success.. do the hard work first, aim for things that solve real world problems, and don't make offerings pretending to be some mystical decentralized thingamabob that lives outside any reach of being convicted for breaking laws of any sorts. Then the serious money in the world will be able to start looking at your seriously.
Exactly they're a centralised entity who were clearly able to raise funds within hours from a handful of institutional investors so they didn't need to crowdfund. It comes across as a pre-orchestrated investment event that was either done as a legal workaround or because as a blockchain based service they think they will benefit from the perception of being crowdfunded like BitReserve. They also unlike most put a cap on funds raised.
Their crowdfunding thread is all of 5 pages long and 1/2 those comments are negative & I can't find one thread with lots of interest for this one year old mature amazing project... I think it has potential but as you say it's clearly attracted a handful of institutional investors vs. the decentralised crowd at this stage which is why I don't think it will be recognised as a valid crowdfund by the market and in the records.
(& I do see it has potential. I think I answered no to your poll originally but while not long term I actually could see myself using a gold backed crypto-currency for brief periods depending on how it was done.)
124
General Discussion / Re: Does anyone has an opinion to Lisk?
« on: April 09, 2016, 02:05:09 pm »That should defenitively be done !!!Well, that's crazy. So they already have around 650M MC before launch ?Is the price now on yobit 130x bigger than during the ico
I though I made a mistake, it should be 13x but I can't find it.
My math has to be wrong, right ?
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
No your maths is right
That's way too much.
I guess there is no way to sell some ?
Maybe they reach 1B$. It could be cool ! I missed the ETH train and my heavy load is on the BTS one but it is still in the station.
Guys like tbone have been attempting to arrange something with Ronny/CCEDK to create a market at these prices.
Also if we created a BitLISK SmartCoin on the DEX we could short it. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22035.msg289022.html#msg289022
The volume & exposure that could bring to the DEX could be very beneficial too.
I just spend 10 days trying to send the pricefeed in the testnet (and still trying) , I'm the guy to do that but we shoukd find the ones who can make it happen.
This lisk is a volume bomb !!! We need it !
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
125
General Discussion / Re: Does anyone has an opinion to Lisk?
« on: April 09, 2016, 01:15:08 pm »Well, that's crazy. So they already have around 650M MC before launch ?Is the price now on yobit 130x bigger than during the ico
I though I made a mistake, it should be 13x but I can't find it.
My math has to be wrong, right ?
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
No your maths is right
That's way too much.
I guess there is no way to sell some ?
Maybe they reach 1B$. It could be cool ! I missed the ETH train and my heavy load is on the BTS one but it is still in the station.
Guys like tbone have been attempting to arrange something with Ronny/CCEDK to create a market at these prices.
Also if we created a BitLISK SmartCoin on the DEX we could short it. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22035.msg289022.html#msg289022
The volume & exposure that could bring to the DEX could be very beneficial too.
126
General Discussion / Re: Does anyone has an opinion to Lisk?
« on: April 09, 2016, 09:59:30 am »Is the price now on yobit 130x bigger than during the ico
I though I made a mistake, it should be 13x but I can't find it.
My math has to be wrong, right ?
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
No your maths is right
127
General Discussion / Re: [Poll] REAL GOLD BLOCKCHAIN?
« on: April 09, 2016, 09:49:11 am »It was fully transparent so not sure why you consider it suspicious. There are lots of ETH early birds who've made tons of money and are looking at ways of diversifying while supporting ethererum, that's the easiest answer to why it took off like it did. The biggest individual investments were around $800k with several around $200k-500k.No. The Digix crowdsale was incredibly suspicious. They raised what $5 million in 14 hours? Possibly a legal workaround or something else going on there.
I didn't thought that way before your comment... Have you some evidence that the majority of the tokens didn't reached a wider audience but only a little minority?
(the only suspicious, that make sense after your comment, was that they apologized because many fund-raiser never managed to sent their ethers to the crowd-sale addresses due to the "fact" that they didn't configured they wallet's for variable(?) GAS transactions...)
I personally participated and I setup my ETH wallet for the very first time that same day. Only issues I had were the slow syncing times took around 4 hours using Mist.
Sent fra min MotoG3 via Tapatalk
My contention is that it's suspicious because given the references of much more popular projects it takes a long time to raise that amount of money from a wide investing audience.
Digix clearly doesn't have even a minuscule fraction of the interest LISK/Augur had/has & yet it supposedly raised the same amount of money in <1% of the time from a wide investing audience?
Have you some evidence that the majority of the tokens didn't reached a wider audience but only a little minority?
You've positively affirmed my contention and Liondani's concern in your response.
The biggest individual investments were around $800k with several around $200k-500k.
So we can confirm that they didn't raise $5 million from thousands of small individual investors in a traditional crowdsale sense like LISK and Augur did but rose the majority from people purchasing 5% equity plus, with their money ready to go within hours of launch.
Possibly a handful of ETH rich whales as you speculate, possibly even one or two who broke their orders up into smaller purchases but more likely just the owners/investors in the underlying Digix company. (Slightly similar to STEEMIT, setting it up to become the majority owner of STEEM.) Or similar to BitReserve who claimed to have the second largest digital crowdfund in history but actually the vast majority went to a single investor....
Quote
Bitreserve has become the second largest crowdfunded digital currency company by hitting US$9.5 million in a public Series-B investment round
http://cointelegraph.com/news/bitreserve-raises-us95-million-in-second-largest-crowdfunding-round-in-the-digital-currency-sector
But you don't see them on this list, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_funded_crowdfunding_projects
Similarly given the evidence it's unlikely Digix will be recognised as a 'valid' crowdsale.
128
General Discussion / Re: Is there a creative way to sell Lisk on the Dex prior to the mid April launch?
« on: April 08, 2016, 06:15:02 pm »There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
If there was a BitLISK, ICO LISK holders could just short it.
In terms of CCDEK yes that could be successful too. He could make a fortune right now. I would pay a 20% commission to sell some of my LISK at anything near YoBit prices.
Ronny could offer LISK for Sale on CCEDK and then credit it to LISK ICO owning forum members based on a combination of trust and collateral as well as not letting them withdraw the BTC from their account until they've sent actual LISK to the exchange once it's launched.
So for example he could say I trust you're good for 10 000 LISK Empirical1.2. I will credit your account with 8000 LISK which you can sell. However the account will be locked for withdrawals until you deposit 10 000 LISK which must be done within 72 hours of when LISK officially begins trading.
Ronny could easily get 300 000 LISK which could be put up for sale. At current YoBit prices 20% commission on that would be $500 000 profit for CCEDK in a matter of weeks.
(The high commission also allows for a high failure rate even amongst trusted members of this community and as prices are clearly inflated at the moment even if a small % of people failed to provide actual LISK the BTC they would have received for them in their locked account should more than cover the purchase of actual LISK once trading if required.)
Yes, pretty much my sentiments. Although personally, I was thinking of a lower commission since I'm willing to put up some collateral and give him a screenshot of my Lisk ICO exchanges. But yes, I think among some of the members of the community who have established some reputation, we could come up with a nice chunk of Lisk to enable a nice little market to trade on the DEX.
Regarding the BitLisk option, I'm just wondering how we would explain to people (especially outside this community) that they can trust this asset that we just shorted into existence all of a sudden. I mean, it's not issued by the blockchain, the issuer is not a trusted organization, and this particular asset would have no track record in the marketplace. That doesn't mean people wouldn't buy into it or that it wouldn't work. And of course if it did work, it would be awesome for us on several levels. I'm just having a hard time getting my head around it.
Yeah I would be willing to provide collateral and ICO screenshots too. But I would pay 20% commission at these prices any day of the week.
In terms of BitLISK. I imagine people would be willing to short it at far lower than YoBit prices which means the incentive to be a buyer & take that risk would be that you could get it for much cheaper than elsewhere at this stage. With the knowledge that you could redeem it 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS once LISK trading starts. I think there'll be a market for it but as I say maybe some other people have some opinions on it, there's often things i miss.
Ok, so walk me through this. What absolutely guarantees that they will be able to redeem 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS? Forced settlement? What are the potential pitfalls there? What if the market becomes extremely volatile and there isn't a lot of liquidity? What is the risk for those of us shorting BitLISK into existence, both before and after price feeds become available and forced settlement must be instituted?
As for the price feeds, so they would be coming from external Lisk:BTC markets once real LISK trading begins, correct? Does that mean that BitLISK needs to trade against BTC? Would it be BitBTC? OPEN.BTC? What about BTS? I imagine it would be best if it was not fragmented among multiple pairs. But if it was BTS, how would that work with the Lisk:BTC price feeds? Don't worry about answering that if you think it should only trade against some version of BTC.
By the way, what prevents people that don't have ICO Lisk keys from shorting BitLISK? Ok, I guess that doesn't matter as long as they have enough collateral. But again, I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around that. Enough collateral based on what? And would people trust that it's properly collateralized?
I'm certainly not shooting the idea of BitLISK down. I'm just trying to get comfortable with it. It would be amazing if this could work. And I appreciate you advancing the idea.
I think this is how it works. Say for example we used the YoBit LISK price as the price feed https://yobit.net/en/trade/LISK/BTC with a forced settlement offest of zero.
Then you can either make a BitLISK/BitBTC market in which case you would need to buy BitBTC with BTS first to either buy BitLISK or short it https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/BTC_BTS
Or you could create a BitLISK/BTS market and I 'think' using the BTS/BTC price feed it should be able to calculate where forced settlement should be on that market too and then you could buy BitLISK with BTS or short it with BTS.
Then you can offer to buy BitLisk if there was a willing shorter. Once you own it you could either sell it for BTS to someone else wishing to buy it or you could request forced settlement which would convert your BitLISK to BTS or BitBTC based on the YoBit price in 24 hours taken from the least collateralized short.
So the option is to use the YoBit price feed for now and and add more price feeds as they become available or use no price feeds for now, meaning that you will only be able to use the forced settlement function once there are feeds in a couple of weeks. If you bough BitLISK in that time you would only be able to get BTS for it by selling it to another willing buyer.
I think that's how it all works, but I don't use BitAssets very much.
https://bitshares.org/technology/price-stable-cryptocurrencies/
129
General Discussion / Re: Is there a creative way to sell Lisk on the Dex prior to the mid April launch?
« on: April 08, 2016, 05:09:48 pm »There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
If there was a BitLISK, ICO LISK holders could just short it.
In terms of CCDEK yes that could be successful too. He could make a fortune right now. I would pay a 20% commission to sell some of my LISK at anything near YoBit prices.
Ronny could offer LISK for Sale on CCEDK and then credit it to LISK ICO owning forum members based on a combination of trust and collateral as well as not letting them withdraw the BTC from their account until they've sent actual LISK to the exchange once it's launched.
So for example he could say I trust you're good for 10 000 LISK Empirical1.2. I will credit your account with 8000 LISK which you can sell. However the account will be locked for withdrawals until you deposit 10 000 LISK which must be done within 72 hours of when LISK officially begins trading.
Ronny could easily get 300 000 LISK which could be put up for sale. At current YoBit prices 20% commission on that would be $500 000 profit for CCEDK in a matter of weeks.
(The high commission also allows for a high failure rate even amongst trusted members of this community and as prices are clearly inflated at the moment even if a small % of people failed to provide actual LISK the BTC they would have received for them in their locked account should more than cover the purchase of actual LISK once trading if required.)
Yes, pretty much my sentiments. Although personally, I was thinking of a lower commission since I'm willing to put up some collateral and give him a screenshot of my Lisk ICO exchanges. But yes, I think among some of the members of the community who have established some reputation, we could come up with a nice chunk of Lisk to enable a nice little market to trade on the DEX.
Regarding the BitLisk option, I'm just wondering how we would explain to people (especially outside this community) that they can trust this asset that we just shorted into existence all of a sudden. I mean, it's not issued by the blockchain, the issuer is not a trusted organization, and this particular asset would have no track record in the marketplace. That doesn't mean people wouldn't buy into it or that it wouldn't work. And of course if it did work, it would be awesome for us on several levels. I'm just having a hard time getting my head around it.
Yeah I would be willing to provide collateral and ICO screenshots too. But I would pay 20% commission at these prices any day of the week.
In terms of BitLISK. I imagine people would be willing to short it at far lower than YoBit prices which means the incentive to be a buyer & take that risk would be that you could get it for much cheaper than elsewhere at this stage. With the knowledge that you could redeem it 1 BitLISK for 1 LISK worth of BTS once LISK trading starts. I think there'll be a market for it but as I say maybe some other people have some opinions on it, there's often things i miss.
130
General Discussion / Re: Is there a creative way to sell Lisk on the Dex prior to the mid April launch?
« on: April 08, 2016, 04:43:58 pm »There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
I agree that someone here should do something. I have been very vocal about my belief that this would create great exposure for the DEX, both on the forum and in private with Ronny. I tried to get him to escrow some collateral from me in exchange for issuing an asset representing a portion of my Lisk ICO shares. But he is too busy with the Moscow conference. And I don't know that there is another good way to do it that will be trusted. Thoughts?
If there was a BitLISK, ICO LISK holders could just short it.
In terms of CCDEK yes that could be successful too. He could make a fortune right now. I would pay a 20% commission to sell some of my LISK at anything near YoBit prices.
Ronny could offer LISK for Sale on CCEDK and then credit it to LISK ICO owning forum members based on a combination of trust and collateral as well as not letting them withdraw the BTC from their account until they've sent actual LISK to the exchange once it's launched.
So for example he could say I trust you're good for 10 000 LISK Empirical1.2. I will credit your account with 8000 LISK which you can sell. However the account will be locked for withdrawals until you deposit 10 000 LISK which must be done within 72 hours of when LISK officially begins trading.
Ronny could easily get 300 000 LISK which could be put up for sale. At current YoBit prices 20% commission on that would be $500 000 profit for CCEDK in a matter of weeks.
(The high commission also allows for a high failure rate even amongst trusted members of this community and as prices are clearly inflated at the moment even if a small % of people failed to provide actual LISK the BTC they would have received for them in their locked account should more than cover the purchase of actual LISK once trading if required.)
131
General Discussion / Re: Is there a creative way to sell Lisk on the Dex prior to the mid April launch?
« on: April 08, 2016, 03:24:27 pm »There will be plenty of people willing to short BitLISK at even a 1/4 of what it's trading for on Yobit.
Can/t we create BitLISK and only enable forced settlement once LISK is properly trading?
But what would we use for price feeds in this case?
If there's no forced settlement, I don't think we need price feeds right now because the market will know price feeds & forced settlement are coming and trade accordingly. Then once it's released we use price feeds from whichever main exchange/s are trading it.
Alternatively you could use the YoBit IOU LISK price as the price feed for now & add other exchanges as real LISK begins being traded though I doubt there will be much LISK demand at YoBit prices.
For some reason I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of a BitAsset with no price feed.
I don't 'think' it's a major issue because the price feeds and forced settlement will be available once LISK is trading so people should trade accordingly. Perhaps others can give their opinion.
We'd have to move quick but it could create quite a lot of exposure & demand for BTS.
132
General Discussion / Re: Ethereum price discussion
« on: April 08, 2016, 01:36:41 pm »I'm margin selling all the way up to 0.030 myself.
You made the mistake to not participate on ethereum crowd-sale... don't make another one! We need you here...healthy!
Yeah I might lose on this one
If you look at LTC when it had that kind of inflation, it could never maintain a high level, as that 30% inflation would always drag the price down when the current reason for speculative demand dried up.
It's been a good trade so far. ETH made it up to 0.0295 (on NY times article and Visual Studio News) and has been falling since.
It's falling a little bit slower than I expected but it's pretty clear that with the current inflation level it needs frequent big news to sustain this valuation otherwise it's an easy short.
133
General Discussion / Re: Does anyone has an opinion to Lisk?
« on: April 08, 2016, 01:31:20 pm »LISK IOU prices on YoBit are hysterical
If those LISK prices hold (they WONT), I will sell and buy 10 million BTS.
It's a real pity we haven't found a way to trade LISK at these prices on the DEX. We could attract a lot of customers and sell some of our LISK stash.
134
General Discussion / Re: [Poll] REAL GOLD BLOCKCHAIN?
« on: April 08, 2016, 01:22:40 pm »No. The Digix crowdsale was incredibly suspicious. They raised what $5 million in 14 hours? Possibly a legal workaround or something else going on there.
I didn't thought that way before your comment... Have you some evidence that the majority of the tokens didn't reached a wider audience but only a little minority?
(the only suspicious, that make sense after your comment, was that they apologized because many fund-raiser never managed to sent their ethers to the crowd-sale addresses due to the "fact" that they didn't configured they wallet's for variable(?) GAS transactions
If you look at LISK for example they raised around $6 million recently and that took a while, you can also see from their thread that the level of interest from a wide group is extremely high. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.0
Also Augur raised a similar amount but it took a while and there was also a high degree of interest, their Youtube video has over 200k views. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yegyih591Jo
Digix clearly doesn't have even a minuscule fraction of the interest LISK/Augur had/has & yet it supposedly raised the same amount of money in <1% of the time from a wide investing audience?
It's an interesting project but no I don't believe Digix genuinely entered the top 20 highest crowdfunded projects in history in the space of 14 hours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_funded_crowdfunding_projects It doesn't compute unfortunately.
135
General Discussion / Re: [Poll] REAL GOLD BLOCKCHAIN?
« on: April 08, 2016, 10:53:04 am »
One of the issues in the case of Digix is what would happen in the event of a Digix bankruptcy?
In terms of existing competitors there's BitGold.com but presumably they need KYC.
There is also Xaurum which I believe is backing/attempts to back it's units with gold in some way. (They also have the ticker symbol XAU which is pretty good.) http://xaurum.aurumproject.io/
No. The Digix crowdsale was incredibly suspicious. They raised what $5 million in 14 hours? Possibly a legal workaround or something else going on there.
In terms of existing competitors there's BitGold.com but presumably they need KYC.
There is also Xaurum which I believe is backing/attempts to back it's units with gold in some way. (They also have the ticker symbol XAU which is pretty good.) http://xaurum.aurumproject.io/
heck.. the crowdfund that was expected to go a month that sold out in 14 hrs is a pretty clear indication of what others think about this.
No. The Digix crowdsale was incredibly suspicious. They raised what $5 million in 14 hours? Possibly a legal workaround or something else going on there.
