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Messages - Samupaha

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31
It's like antidilution gang doesn't even understand how DAC is supposed to work. There are also other ways to decrease current supply, like I tried to propose in other thread earlier. But nobody from antidilution gang didn't even bother to answer. It's like this whole thing is just made up reason – but I don't know what they are trying to achieve.  If price goes down because lack of development, they are going to get hurt also. They have quite a lot of BTS, otherwise they couldn't be able to vote so powerfully.

Maybe this is a coup? First they are trying to get people so frustrated that most of the developers leave, and when the price goes down because of this, they will buy more BTS so they can fully control Bitshares. I just don't know how they could get anybody to trust Bitshares after something like that.

32
Bitshares need a good reputation more than its technology, then people come, developers come.

You are destroying the repuation of Bitshares. You are acting directly against one of the biggest advantage that we have: an ability to fund blockchain development directly from the blockchain. This is a huge thing which other people are starting finally to realize: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckRPUqnFlIs

No developers want to work for a project that is hostile against development. If there are no developers, there is no development. If there is no development, there are no features that customers want. If there are no features, there are no customers.

Current situation his horrible. I have stopped all my marketing efforts for now because I'm ashamed to present Bitshares to anybody. If newbie comes and sees what's happening, he will run away very quickly.

So tell me, how we should go on with marketing? What's working marketing strategy in a situation like this? I don't see any.
During the last two year, how many newbie comes, and how many of them stay?
Code: [Select]
Most Online Today: 103. Most Online Ever: 373 (December 05, 2013, 11:28:00 PM) 
See the forum statistics, that is the truth, almost no newbie here. Did the last two year Bitshares stop develope?  then why they left?
It is not shame to present Bitshares to anybody , it is a shame that we can't have them stay.
Old guy left, newbie left, that is the situation.

Yes, I'm very well aware of the fact it's difficult to get people stay. And you are making it even more difficult!

Funding from blockchain is one of our core features, it's adverized on our website, look: https://bitshares.org/technology/stakeholder-approved-project-funding/

If you don't like that, then tell me how you are going to replace it? How the new system will function and how we should market it to potential customers and other developers?

33
Bitshares need a good reputation more than its technology, then people come, developers come.

You are destroying the repuation of Bitshares. You are acting directly against one of the biggest advantage that we have: an ability to fund blockchain development directly from the blockchain. This is a huge thing which other people are starting finally to realize: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckRPUqnFlIs

No developers want to work for a project that is hostile against development. If there are no developers, there is no development. If there is no development, there are no features that customers want. If there are no features, there are no customers.

Current situation his horrible. I have stopped all my marketing efforts for now because I'm ashamed to present Bitshares to anybody. If newbie comes and sees what's happening, he will run away very quickly.

So tell me, how we should go on with marketing? What's working marketing strategy in a situation like this? I don't see any.

34
Ah, I see.

Are confidential transactions still seen as possible? Is the bug viewed as fix-able?

Yes, it's coming, only a little bit slower than anticipated. If I remember correctly, there will be first a dedicated client for stealth transfers and when it has been tested enough, GUI will be implemented to the regular wallet.

Stealth = confidential + blinded transfers

Developers will know better but I think it will need maybe a month or so until it's ready.

35
You mean fork? Impossible to hard fork due to no enough votes/support.

Why shareholders wouldn't support this? This solves two problems: Other exchanges can't attack Bitshares anymore with BTS of their customers (this doesn't apply only for Yunbi at the moment but all other exchanges also which can vote badly in the future) and voter apathy (well, not necessarily solve it completely but at least helps a lot).

As far as I can see, this will solve the problems that Bytemaster saw with tonyk's original proposal.

36
General Discussion / Re: alt appreciation thread
« on: March 28, 2016, 12:18:16 pm »
I'll say it again, personal attacks only reflect poorly on yourself, and they're probably part of the reason why alt and so many others (Hoskinson comes to mind) are no longer active in this community.

Again, they are asking for it. Antidilution gang had started their attack against Bitshares long before I become really pissed of at them. They have been asked nicely to explain and defend their point of view. But so far nothing.

As a DAC we all should be on a same page. We should all know how we are going on, otherwise things like marketing are really hard. How we can create a positive image about Bitshares, when there is really big minority that is against all development? What do you think that newbies think when they start to learn about Bitshares? How you think we can attract new developers when there is open hostility against them?

I have been very open about my perspective on DAC and it's development. So far nobody from the antidilution gang hasn't criticized it in any meaningful way. Why?

And Hoskinson didn't recieve any personal attacks AFAIK. He ragequitted because one of his posts was moved to a more suitable subforum. If somebody can't handle that, he is probably quite difficult person to cooperate with, so I'm not surprised that he has left many other communities too.

The current state is that all serious worker proposals have enough votes to be active, regardless of alt's stance, so your argument that the anti-dilution crowd is "making sure that Bitshares won't gain any momentum" is an obvious strawman.

Then explain to me how Bitshares can gain momemtum if all development is stopped? This is what the antidilution gang wants.

I suspect alt and co feel that the current feature set is more than enough to compete with most other cryptos out there, and that what Bitshares needs more than anything else is feature stability. We keep on increasing the complexity of Bitshares by adding feature upon feature, but perhaps feature creep and additional complexity are not what we need at this point in time. Bitshares is already quite complex and hard to grasp for newcomers, so there's certainly a case to be made for reducing complexity rather than adding to it.

If this is their stance, they should explain that rather than quitting all communication and attacking Bitshares. What they are doing now isn't helping anybody.

I'm of the opinion that any major value added to Bitshares will come from third parties building services utilizing the blockchain itself, not from worker proposals or "marketing" paid by workers, and for that to happen we need stability.

Then why antidilution gang is also against things like xeroc's documentation which will be very much needed when other businesses are built on Bitshares blockchain?

37
bm change the total supply of BTS without consent too

What the hell this is supposed to mean?

He means many unpopular dilutionary changes were pushed through by a minority of BTS stake that was actually voting, on the basis of 'Silence means consent'. So too with this, if BTS users don't remove their stake from Yunbi or enough BTS votes can't be raised to counteract them then 'Silence means consent.'

So that happened like 2014? And these people haven't got over it and want to revenge for Bytemaster and other developers because of that? And they don't care if Bitshares is destroyed at the same time? Really, what the fuck is wrong with these people? They don't make any sense.

38
General Discussion / Re: alt appreciation thread
« on: March 28, 2016, 11:21:02 am »
He has been voting for stopping all development since February. That is very clear attack against Bitshares in my mind. He hasn't even bothered to explain why he is doing it.

He certainly has explained why: like wildpig says he believes the current marketcap is too low to support dilution at the current rates. Clearly quite a few people agree with him since he's not only the proxy with the most votes behind him (by a large margin), but also the proxy with the second most accounts behind him.

He has been asked several times to explain how the "antidilution" plan would work, but he, or anybody else from antidilution gang, hasn't answered. Like in this topic: No dilution. Now what? Everyone anti dilution please report

The competition is strong in cryptosphere. If we stop development for a few years and hope that somehow mystically BTS price will shoot up even when the project is mostly hibernating, our chances for success are pretty much nonexistent.

How we can market with plan like that? "Well, we are now in a stage where we have stopped development and just wish very hard that price will go up." Everybody will laugh at that and think that Bitshares is dead project. Everybody will see that Bitshares has failed as a DAC.

It is fucking frustrating for me to watch all this happen. We are still leading in tech, but that's not going to last forever. Lisk is coming with DPOS and it might take away a considerable portion of our investors because it has momentum and it's using it, while antidilution gang is making sure that Bitshares won't gain any momemtum ever again. If not Lisk, you can be sure that there will be other projects coming. We can't just wait and see when they grab all potential customers.

He's not crazy just because you don't agree, and resorting to name-calling and personal attacks will only serve to alienate him and his supporters even more. Hell, I'm a worker myself but I tend to agree with him.. Now Data has been insinuating that alt is behind the recent "dividend" worker, but there's no evidence to that effect and as you may have noticed alt is NOT voting for that worker.

Well, what else you could expect? Alt has been real asshole and has stopped communicating with the rest of us. You get what you ask for. I don't have any respect for him.

This is a several million dollar business, and the goal is to get it to several billions. Alt and the whole antidilution gang are acting like retarded children. I have very little patience for behaviour like that.

39
I think the developers have gained enough profit.LINUX strong is not to rely on others to pay wages. I agree with Yunbi.

Then explain what incentives the developers have? Linux is totally different kind of project, explain how we can make the development happen like it does? Bitshares is more like a company than a open source project. Our goal is to make money. Don't you agree with that?

This kind of short oneliners don't help to convince anybody. You have to EXPLAIN how you think Bitshares can go on when funding for  development is stopped.

40
General Discussion / Importance of early adopters
« on: March 28, 2016, 09:49:46 am »
There was good comment on Slack, I move it to here so it won't disappear so quickly.

This was a comment by viz10nari for my claim that we need more early adopters.

Quote
well i very respectfully hold a different view on that, because as a marketer, and i speak for myself only, getting a significant amount of people (or even just one person) to take a specific desired action is for me simply a matter of creating the right value proposition to motivate them to act. In other words, non-early adopters (the so called masses being the demographic that doesn't care two hoots about how the underlying technology works as long as it works, ) can most definitely be incentivized to become "early adopters". Also, the masses don't arrive all at once as in a million of them in one day... so the first 10 that turns into 100 and into 1000, 10,000 are effectively "masses early adopters". My question for you @ samupaha, would be this - what exactly are these early adopters doing that the masses are waiting for them to do? I do not agree that early adopters for a crypto platform have to be limited to or defined as "crypto enthusiasts". I really cannot imagine a single housewife or young professional, upon being presented with a powerful and compelling BitShares powered value proposition, sitting down to do research and then telling themselves "hmmm, i don't think they're enough "early adopter crypto enthusiasts on board with BitShares yet, so despite the amazing solution presented to me using BitShares that can clearly solve my financial problems in the next 6-12 months, I'll sit on the fence until whenever BitShares manages to get 20,000 crypto enthusiast early adopters on board." I personally think too many marketers accept widely promoted marketing "principles" as being irrefutible. For me, everything is irrefutible and anything is possible. In closing I will say this - if I invented a new kind of screw and when i advertise it nobody rushes to buy it, it doesn't mean that my new screw technology is flawed or not useful (a la BitShares), it just means that the value proposition I presented wasn't compelling enough. So if I then design some visually beautiful and functionally cool household gadget that solves a real pain in the but problem for consumers and my new screw is at the heart of the new gadget's ability to solve the pain problem, the new value proposition i present around the pain solution can be compelling enough to get a million units of the gadget sold. But guess what, not a single one of those million buyers will have given a single thought to the screw that's in it, yet they have indirectly bought and are using my new screw technology. Then screw manufacturers and retailers would take notice and come knocking trying to licence the patent, offer distribution etc. BitShares is an enabling technology that when adopted by and wrapped within a truly powerful "use case", will gain rapid users "by default". That is what Sollarsand Sense is trying to do right now and I'm sure many others, like Ken's OpenPOS and ECHO... when the masses see something really useful and "accessible", they migrate up the early adopter food chain as fast as their motivation drives them. Marketing without strategy is just plain old gambling unfortunately, and nobody really wants to be doing that.

Crypto projects are quite different thing than for example simple gadgets. Nothing is ready for the prime time yet. Products are still very much incomplete and buggy. And very complicated to understand, especially Bitshares.

Because of this environment the early adopters are really important. They are people who will help others to use and understand what all this is about. They will file bug reports when newbies encounter problems. They will do continuous marketing wherever they happen to be. They will show other people how wallets work. They will buy stuff with cryptocurrency just to show support for the merchant who accepts them. They will try to attract more developers to join.

Without very active early adopters it's much more difficult for big masses to adopt any cryptoproduct. Most of the value comes from network effect. Big masses will lose their interest very quickly if there are not other people using the product, no matter how beautifully it's packaged. They don't do anything with a currency that nobody else uses.

IMO Bitshares is suffering right now lack of active early adopters. There is too much to do and only a few people actually doing. That's why we should be targeting marketing to people who can be easily attracted to become early adopters (like libertarians and other people who want to change the current financial system).

41
General Discussion / Re: alt appreciation thread
« on: March 28, 2016, 08:55:50 am »
So what made alt to go crazy and instead of improving Bitshares to attacking it?
What makes you say he went crazy and attacked Bitshares?? Enough with the innuendo and personal attacks already...

He has been voting for stopping all development since February. That is very clear attack against Bitshares in my mind. He hasn't even bothered to explain why he is doing it.

42
you means the BTS price is decide by Bitshares development,and the price go down not by Devs always change rules ?

Yes, of course. Bitshares is a DAC. The value of a DAC comes from customers. If Bitshares doesn't have customers, it's shares don't have any value. And of course we can't get any customers if we don't develop new features that customers want.

When devs are "changing the rules" they are what is expected from them. They make Bitshares better. If you disagree, please explain why so we can avoid making any mistakes.

And not all workers are even "changing the rules", there is for example xeroc who is doing documentation. How the hell you think that existence of documentation will make BTS price go down?!

And now most of the real rule changing happens by the committee. Why you are not complaining about them? There was recently a major change in fees, there were lots of changes. Why that wasn't a bad thing?

43
A while ago there was discussion if BTS should be made non-transferable. A lot of good arguments have said in defence of the idea, but it has also some problems (mainly how it would be difficult to implement). Here I'm trying to find a reasonable, step-by-step process how non-transferableness could be enabled.

This has become important when chinese exchange Yunbi started an attack against Bitshares development by voting with it's customers BTS to stop all development (including documentation and bug fixes).

Badly behaving exchanges are not anymore just a theoretical threat to Bitshares. It's real threat, already in use. To make Bitshares more resilient against attacks like this we should disable transferableness of BTS. It will force users to withdraw their BTS out from exchanges and solves the problem.

1. Free transactions for shareholders

Free transactions feature is probably coming in the near future because it has a lot of support in the forum. Thanks to abit we already have a simple and elegant implementation proposal. This will mean that users can make free transactions depending on how much they own BTS.

2. Creation of BitBTS

BitBTS is a derivative of BTS that is backed with 100 % of BTS so it tracks the price of BTS. The biggest difference is that BitBTS owner doesn't have voting power.

BitBTS is borrowed into existence just like any other smartcoin. Borrowers can use more than 100 % collateral if they want to decrease the risk of force settlement.

Borrowers will retain the voting power for the collateral. When they sell BitBTS for BTS they will have double voting power and BitBTS owner has none.

If BitBTS owner wants to vote, he must either force settle or buy BTS with BitBTS (exchange rate will be very close to 1:1).

When BitBTS is created, we can inform all other exchanges that it will replace BTS everywhere else exept Bitshares internal exchange, so they have time to make necessary changes.

BitBTS is also elegant solution for the voter apathy problem. There are lots of investors who just want to make profit when BTS price goes up, but they are not interested in voting because they don't have time to keep up with everything that's happening in Bitshares. With BitBTS they will give up their voting power for those who borrow BitBTS into existence. It is becoming clear by now that proxies alone are not a sufficient solution for voter apathy, disinterested shareholders don't use even those.

3. Disable free transactions feature for BTS

We can reduce the incentive of using BTS as a currency by disabling the free transactions feature for it's transfers. Users could use the subvention credits for BTS trading in the DEX but not for transfers. This will reduce a little bit the incentive to send BTS to traditional, centralized exchanges.

4. Raise the price of BTS transfers

This will create bigger incentive to use BitBTS for everything outside our internal exchange. If users want to trade in other exchanges, they would rather send BitBTS for free than BTS with expensive fee. Little by little we will make it more expensive.

5. Make BTS non-transferable

When most of the transfers outside our internal exchange are happening with BitBTS, it won't be difficult to just disallow BTS transfers entirely.

44
A way of convincing the market that it won't happen again is more significant than the end of inflation which is already priced in  ;D

Very good point.
Don't easily change the rule again like it 's a bed game with girlfriend.

Isn't it clear to everybody that after we changed to 2.0 it's pretty much impossible to add new BTS to the total supply? Should we somehow advertize it more or what?

Bitshares is very flexible system, but as far as I see, changing fundamentals like total BTS supply or the rate how much BTS is taken out from reserve pool are really, really difficult to change even if there was considerable part of shareholders demanding that.

45
General Discussion / Re: alt appreciation thread
« on: March 28, 2016, 07:20:22 am »
So what made alt to go crazy and instead of improving Bitshares to attacking it?

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