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Messages - Samupaha

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46
bm change the total supply of BTS without consent too

What the hell this is supposed to mean?

First, we have now changed to Bitshares 2.0 where Bytemaster has no power to change the supply anymore. Didn't you know that? We made the change last year!

Second, if you didn't like the supply change, why didn't you sell everything and leave the project? If you don't believe in Bitshares anymore, why you are in the forum still? Remember, Bitshares is a DAC so it's like a company. If you think that company is doing badly, you either try to get it to work better or sell your shares. So far anti-Bytemaster gang hasn't offered any improvement proposals so I guess that you don't have any idea how to make Bitshares better.

Attacking against Bitshares with exchange votes to stop the development is probably the most retarded way of action in this situation. It will make the BTS price go down when markets realize that Bitshares development is in danger. Why do you want BTS price to go down? Please, explain.

you have a thief as your comminitee
your man always want get more and more money,
never want to clear the thief,
and said sorry to BTER

Mindphlux doesn't have anything to do with this situation. Pretty much everybody agrees that what he did was wrong.

47
I mean focus more on products and less on the (price of) shares.

As a company(-like entity) Bitshares DAC has one goal that all shareholders agree: to make profit for shareholders.

Because Bitshares doesn't pay dividend to shareholders, only way to make the investment profitable is to get shareprice to go up. This is something that we should never forget.

By locking some BTS we can achieve two things at the same time: shareholders will be happy when the BTS price goes up and we will have more funds (measured in fiat currencies) to develop and make Bitshares even better. It's much easier to focus on products when share price is high.

It's risky to have shares be a part of products (like what we did).

Once we have side chains, it's best to use SIDE.BTC etc as default collateral of all smart coins, or create new smart coins, let market select the best ones. After then, dumping and pumping of shares (BTS) won't impact liquidity of products (smart coins), and perhaps no price feeding is needed at that time. A new era, BitShares 3.0.

If you use SIDE.BTC as default collateral then the more popular SmartCoins becomes the more demand there is for BTC... So you're mostly growing BTC demand with that strategy not necessarily BTS unless you earn fees from their transactions. (Even in a ninety percent BTS price decline, BitAssets still retained their value so they're designed pretty well in terms of using BTS as collateral.)

I will add to this that because foundations of Bitcoin are very weak, there is high probability that it's price will drop significantly in the near future (that's one reason why I'm interested in Bitshares so much). If the price of an asset is going to drop, it's not good asset for collateral. There will be very small incentives to borrow smartcoins into existence with bitcoin.

48
Has anybody got any explanation? My email was replied just:

"Our opinion on voting is based on our community and our customers.
If you don't agree with us, you can withdraw your BTS from yunbi."

WTF? They don't even bother to explain why they are doing it?

Is this some kind of bigger project, with dividend worker, to make BTS price drop dramatically? More attacks coming? So they can buy more BTS with cheaper price? Even that doesn't make any sense, because most of the antidilution gang don't want to continue development on themselves. If markets stop believing that Bitshares can develop to a profitable DAC, how they are planning to get confidence back?

49
I knew something like this would happen when @bitcrab got Yunbi to vote.

I suggest that everybody will tweet (https://twitter.com/yunbicom) and send email (https://yunbi.com/documents/contact) to Yunbi. I already did.

https://twitter.com/samupaha/status/714174291730935808

Maybe we can make them stop voting, that is so horrible use of customer funds that I'd guess they will understand it themselves too. By attacking workers they are trying to stop development of Bitshares, which will cause BTS price to go down, which will cause direct harm to their customers who own BTS.

50
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51
Personally I think the best way to offer a POS minting reward that removes BTS from current supply is by offering yield on SmartCoins.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21597.msg286581.html#msg286581

It will also create demand for SmartCoins and because BitUSD is less volatile than crypto, the yield required to attract BitUSD demand is much lower.

Yeah, this would be probably good idea, but it might take some time until we reach a consensus about exact model and implement it. In the mean time I think we could still do something simpler that even the antidilution gang can understand and accept.

Isn't free market the best idea?

What do you mean?

Bitshares is a DAC, so it's like a company. Shareholders want to see the value of their investment to go up. We should consider all possibilities how this can be achieved, whether it is offering products and services to customers, incentivizing smartcoin liquidity or locking BTS away from markets.

Dash is a case that proves that it is possible to raise the price of core token by locking it away from liquid markets. Is there any good reason why we shouldn't do the same?

52
General Discussion / Can we reduce the current supply of BTS somehow?
« on: March 27, 2016, 10:08:23 am »
Recently there was a hangout with a guy from Dash. One really interesting concept was masternodes that Dash has. Especially the collateral that is demanded for masternode seemed to be very successful idea.

Every masternode has to have 1000 dash that they lock for so long as they are a masternode. This has been very helpful for dash price because it has sucked a lot of dash away from market liquidity.

It's more profitable for dash owners to lock it up and get rewarded rather than trade on exchanges: they get an interest for the collateral and dash price goes up because there is less to sell.

What would be the best way for Bitshares to implement something like this?

First and most obvious option is of course that we will have a worker that will pay interest for accounts that have locked a certain amount of BTS. And of course there will be the old antidilution argument... but in this case, the funds from reseve pool are not going to liquid markets, they are going to be locked away from markets.

Those funds are not increasing the current supply and they incentivize people to reduce current supply. That would be pure win for everyone. In addition that will incentivize people to move their BTS from exchanges to their own wallets. So the "antidilution" argument doesn't apply in this case.

Couple of questions:

- Should there be a minimum amount of BTS that is entitled to the interest? 1000 dash is approximately 1 000 000 BTS.

- How often interest is paid? Once a month? When funds are unlocked?

- How much is the interest?

- Is there some minimum time for locking? If user unlocks before that, they need to pay a fine, which is added to the interest pot and divided for those who keep their funds locked?

Another possibility is "savings club" that @Empirical1.2 suggested a while ago.

Users will deposit assets to an account where they sit for a year (or some other time). When year is over, they need perform "proof of life" to get their assets back. If they don't, they lose the assets and those are divided for other users as an interest. So it's like a mild form of gambling.

Originally Empirical proposed that this would be for BitUSD but I think it would work best with BTS. We want BitUSD to be liquid, so there is not much reason to lock it away from markets. Instead we want BTS to be locked away from current supply to make it more valuable.

This could be funded with fee backed assets so there is no need to use reserve pool funds.

53
Technical Support / Re: How much witnesses earn?
« on: March 27, 2016, 09:39:07 am »
Here is better formula:

[block reward] * (60 / [block interval time]) * 60 * 24 * 30 / [total number of witnesses] = [witness salary for one month]

54
General Discussion / Re: About workers: 1.14.35/36Fund to pay dividend
« on: March 26, 2016, 04:53:04 pm »
I'm thinking about this from a DAC and community point of view.

This is totally shitty move and our community should decide some guidelines how we will deal with stuff like this.

Forum should be reserved only for productive efforts. We really shouldn't have to deal with shit like this here. Just remove the cancer before it gets too big. I've seen too many times that communities start to suffer when they don't get rid of bullies and antiproductive persons soon enough.

55
General Discussion / Re: About workers: 1.14.35/36Fund to pay dividend
« on: March 26, 2016, 11:23:01 am »
So this is basically a direct attack against Bitshares. While some of us are trying to build a world changing financial platform, these guys go totally "fuck everything, we just want to us Bitshares to get money for ourselves" and ruin the development.

I suggest that anybody who votes for those workers will get lifetime ban on this forum. That's the least we can do, our community doesn't need to tolerate behavior like that.

56
Technical Support / Re: !!! Stupid Questions Thread !!!
« on: March 26, 2016, 10:59:34 am »
This is the stupid questions thread, not the stupid answers thread :)

Of course I started there. But when I landed on the homepage, I read about the technologies. But, I really miss a general path on how to start with things. As a user, but also as a possible contributor with a tech background. What is there to be done and how to start learning it so it it will be possible to contribute later.

Thanks

Unfortunately the newbie friendly information is still mostly missing. But this documentation page will probably help you to get started, and then you can ask here on this forum more spesific questions: http://docs.bitshares.eu/

57
As far as the markets are concered "non-transferable for a certain period" (and slowly released?) is the same thing as bts being created. One could argue that 21million bitcoin have already been created but are just not transferable until they are mined.

Yeah, but it's better to let markets do that analysis by themselves. People have been complaining that Bitshares is complicated and they don't understand it, so we should use every possibility to make things clearer. It doesn't help if we are not using proper terms. If we talk about inflation newbies can understand it that we have same kind of system than other cryptocurrencies – which is totally wrong, because we have the reserve pool where funds are constantly flowing in and out.

Bitcoin is a different case because nobody owns new coins. They are paid as a salary. Vested balances in Bitshares are already paid, they are owned.

Could someone direct me to a place where I can see the (transferable) supply of Bitshares... perhaps a chart over time?

This shows the reserve pool: http://cryptofresh.com/reserve

58
General Discussion / Re: Let's try to get @bitshares on twitter
« on: March 26, 2016, 10:33:46 am »
If the worker doesn't get voted in I'll keep it and monetise it myself but it's obvious to most it would be better controlled by the comittee or cryptonomex.

I don't think that committee members should be required to take any part in marketing. Their job is to set blockchain parameters and that's enough for a nonpaid work.

Also Cryptonomex seems to be uninterested in marketing so accounts might be left underused if they are given to them.

Right now the best option might be that you'll gather a group of people who are interested and can post relevant stuff every now and then. I use Facebook quite regularly so I can be admin there if needed.

Maybe you could first ask donations to cover you expenses before you make the worker proposal? All donations you collect makes the worker less expensive so it gets voted in more easily.

59
If we want to maximize the impact, I think the best thing to do is wait until the vesting period is over and then make everyone aware about that. If we start advertising it now, markets will slowly adapt the information and nothing happens when vesting is finally over. Information is already in the price.

But if it's not generally known, there is a good chance for price rally.
- "Oh, so that's why BTS price has been so low and now it doesn't happen anymore! I have to buy it before anybody else realizes the same thing! Quick, buy buy buy!"

And again I'd like to remind that Bitshares doesn't have inflation. When we are talking about releasing funds from vesting, that's what we should talk about. If you talk about inflation people will think that new BTS is created, which isn't true. BTS has been already created, it just have been non-transferable for a certain period.

60
Meta / Forum profile information
« on: March 23, 2016, 09:46:44 am »
Delete MSN (nobody uses this)
Delete Payrate (not in use anymore)

Add Proxy (all who are proxies should be better known)

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