Hopefully you will come to see the potential of Bitshares.  It has many levels.  Hopefully the devs can succeed in getting us a strong product, and then the community can succeed in promoting it to a high level of success.  Hopefully we can make it to at least the first marker of success: a profitable exchange.  And then after that we can see if the project can change the world.

10/10 analysis Ander!
No-one can know for sure what will happen, but if bts is still alive in a years time then it will almost certainly be more valuable than it is today

To any other lurkers or newbies reading - Feel free to ask as many questions as you like! We are a welcoming bunch, here and it is in everyone's interest for new people to learn more about BitShares

Quote from: Stan on July 07, 2015, 11:17:51 am

Quote from: xeroc on July 07, 2015, 07:55:30 am

Quote from: monsterer on July 07, 2015, 07:25:12 am

Bitcoin is trustless, bitshares is not.

That quote is IMHO not correct ...
BitShares makes a trade-off .. it reduces the trustlessness and gains efficiency ..
but when you compare the "trustlessness" of bitcoin you will notice that pooled mining killed it for bitcoin ..
if everyone was solo-mining bitcoin would be unbeatable in terms of trust ..

How many entities do you trust to sign half the blocks?

Bitcoin:                  3 self-appointed, CEO's for life
BitShares:           51 elected delegates you can fire in 10 seconds
BitShares 2.0       N elected witnesses you can fire in 1 second where voters choose N

Which is more trustless?

Unless something has changed since it was announced by BM, the highlighted statement is INCORRECT.

BM said that the cost of voting is so high that voting results in BitShares 2.0 will only be compiled once a day. It was when I reviewed the recording (I think it was the mumble on 6/8, but not positive) the impact of that statement registered with me.  I recall bringing this up in a conversation with fuzzy also. That is a major shift in policy and security, if you want to factor in voting as a short term security measure as you did here. Voting for real time security concerns has been thrown out - another unilateral decision that was made by Cryptonomex without community consensus.

That said, if you want to argue the merits of that decision based on what has been learned about voter apathy, I think you can make a defensible case, especially for real time problems. Nevertheless, you should stop making claims like this for BiitShares 2.0 because they just aren't true.

Thanks for pointing things like this out, Thom

Could delegates be given the authority to call a vote immediately given x% agree that a bad actor needs ousting asap?
If witnesses will not build on an invalid block, the bad-actor has only a 1 second window. Is there any further danger or possible damage due to the bad-actor remaining a witness for up to another 24 hours?
Why will they/not repeatedly attempt their 'attack' every 101 seconds when it is their turn again?

I understand that witnesses signing blocks are deterministic and a bad-actor couldn't (or findit very hard) to reliable ensure that his bad-actor accomplises would be next in line to sign a block (and therefore be able to continue the attack for longer than 1 second).

Why is it safe to only vote once per day? If trivial, please explain, and if not trivial why aren't members being consulted for a vote?

New Banx Update Video >> http://banxcapital.com/banx-update-6th-july-2015

Banx in process of migrating to BitShares
Banx lotto new product release
BanxPlatinum release 30th July (Not sure what it is)
Presentation on what Banx is coming soon

Sounds really promising Mark! I am interested but unwilling to identify myself in order to purchase BanxShares.
How are you catering to potential-investors like me?

Can we get an "official" bitAsset that tracks the price of Banx?

yeah, but they need to figure out their growing pains.

I run v/smartcoin

Getting them to integrate bitshares at the same time as building their system could be a good thing though, couldn't it?
It would save them the hassle of re-doing work once they decide to integrate bitshares. Bts could get in on the ground floor. Voat is struggling to keep up with demand and needs funding to improve. They are currently asking for donations, but a way to really monetize their product would probably be received very well.
From sticked thread on Voat.co
https://voat.co/v/announcements/comments/194043

Voat is currently getting hit with a huge amount of traffic as a direct result of recent changes happening over at that other place.
Everyone, we’re sorry. We’re both sad to see what we once loved change in this manner, but we’re also excited about the future, but our future won't be traveling down this same path.
We won’t be getting any sleep tonight (again) and we are doing everything we can to handle the traffic.
Our budget is limited but we’ll make sure to fight to the last penny in order to keep Voat alive for this community. If you want to donate, well, now is the time. Our bitcoin address is 1C4Q1RvUb3bzk4aaLVgGccnSnaHYFdESzY.

If we can get some solid ideas for how they can use bts, I shall approach them and try and get them into a thread for discussion.
Reddit failed to integrate bitcoin into tipping, as they sacked the enginerr who was working on it - although they guy seemed to be doing well and had high hopes for how crypto could enhance the user experience

1. Brownie points system of upvotes. Upvotes give "karma" as well as allow premium Voat purchases (like reddit gold, but more sophisticated). Maybe they can imitate Team Fortress and sell "hats", like flair or special avatars that only threshold-level users can access.

2. Lease server time from BunkerMining on a dynamic basis. Could their system be programmed to quickly purchase additional servers during peak hours? A way to efficiently manage their server costs would be AMAZING.

3. Voat want to avoid censorship, reddit's downfall. How can bts help in this respect? Could /v/ subvoats(?) utilise Dynamic Account Permissions so that only the moderators of that sub can censor, taking power away from Voat admins? BitID could help with this.

4. User logins. BitID to save time logging in. Could UIAs be used to back up user data? I'm thinking of a system where a bitID maps to a basket of UIAs that track #posts, upvotes, premium membership etc. I know hosting data on the blockchain is expensive but it may be in Voat's interest to pay the fees. "Your account data will never be lost and is only accessbile by you!" would be a great selling point.

Any ideas?

Maybe not a good idea. There is already LaZooz which might end up doing the same thing.
Is there a big enough differentiation?

http://lazooz.org/

I'm just glad it's getting done!
They look like strong competition.
If anyone wants to take these ideas and challenge them, feel free

Mr Jeans has just posted some data on 'the books' of bitshares and btc

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tj8qlZNkjV37UEwhpOcDtixuJICVWGFLSIXCeECaGlw/edit?pli=1#gid=2138521667

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zd8gyzZqWz1uSbj2kTmGHYj2pNYaSI7KNoEJzo_WQMg/edit?pli=1#gid=0

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17419.0/topicseen.html

My main findings:

BITCOIN
Annual share inflation (YTD):   10.52%
Earnings per share (EPS):   USD 0.12
Price/EPS (P/E ratio):   2158.5
Return on Equity:   0.046%
Operating expense ratio (expenses/earnings):   278.4


BITSHARES
Annual share inflation (annualized)   1.275%
Earnings per share (EPS):   USD 0.00004353
Price/EPS (P/E ratio):   154.6
Return on Equity   0.647%
Operating expense ratio (expenses/earnings)   13.9

This could be an interesting way for us to monitor Bitshares for profitability, and in the future an interesting way to compare DACs for investment purposes.

I'm agree that it's not the time to go viral. The product is not ready for that can lead to a reverse effect and makes us bad publicity.

I don't think Ken is aiming that.

Here is a quick list of what he achieved lately. I don't see anything he has done that have not its place in our "waiting phase" before the release of 2.0.

Helping Ronny at CCEDK
Develop more features for the Nanocard such as Branding, Affiliateships, Cash back rewards and merchant (stores, restaurants, etc) discounts.
He's bringing whales.
Tweet like crazy about BitShares and related companies like CCEDK
Bring in businesses like ZappTales
As a PR Agent, he bring more media to Stan such as Bitcoins and Gravy, Cointelegraph articles, etc.
Working on the BitShares POS project which will bring millions in transaction fees.
Crypto Coaching services via BitShares Munich brand
Youtube channel
G+ pages
Working on the DAC Wizard project which allows businesses to quickly and easily setup a DAC on BitShares 2.0 tech.
Create more google food thru videos, links, social posts, video subtitling, etc.
Working on the BitShares Munich Expo (aligning speakers, partners and sponsors now).
Help newbies in the tech support threads.
Faucet newbies as well
He translated a LOT of content in different languages. When 2.0 launched, anybody without a good level of english won't understand a thing about BitShares, languages are primordial.
...

Maybe it's delegate project would be better received if he could describe a road map on what he will be working until the release ? Focusing on all the things that can be done in a symbiotic way with our "waiting the 2.0 phase".

Opinions ?

It's really great what Ken is doing, and he has my vote but bts members are already getting all this for free (from him).
Also a lot of the things you listed are part of private businesses.

Maybe Ken needs to hold something back and offer his services to bts members after payment. A roadmap of "here's what I'll do if you pay me" could also help.
Community members rallying around Ken so strongly does speak to the amount of effort and good work he has produced though.

Rational members will want to see: the benefit to bitshares, reasons why members should pay for this benefit, integrity of the candidate and a demonstrated ability to follow through with their stated goals. Has Ken done all of these to the extent desired by the members?
It may not have anything to do with Ken, the announcement of DPOS 2 seems to have halted voting for new delegates.

Members who have not voted for Ken, can you name one thing that Ken can do to persuade you?