Number four. Number four, number four, number four.

Having a decentralized btc gateway would make bitshares utterly unique (though it is already), and position it against poloniex, etc. Though challenging, I have long thought this to be possible and desirable.

Why?

Real bitcoins... Not pegged bitcoins... Real bitcoins... Via the bitshares dex.

So I vote three times for number four.

You have the same, but more direct, with Atomic Swaps.

Quote from: erizo on October 26, 2017, 06:46:46 am

Quote from: bitcoinerS on October 26, 2017, 02:30:10 am

In the short term cherry picking some improvements from EOS and integrating them into Bitshares 2 may make sense. Long term Bitshares 2 will not be able to compete with BEOS, as the latter will have a superior foundation with many significant advantages over Bitshares 2.

And what are those features that make EOS absolutely superior and essential? we should remember that the most capitalized currency has no relevant technical characteristics. I suspect that all those characteristics are beads and colored glasses to deceive the unwary.

Technically inferior technology can lead in capitalization, maybe even for a long time. However superior tech will succeed and will likely win out in the end. EOS is Dan Larimer's 3rd blockchain and is being built with lessons learned from the first two, Bitshares being the first.  EOS is a natural upgrade path for Bitshares.

Some of the most significant advantages BEOS will have over BTS 2:

• Smart contract support
• Compatibility with EOS Dapps
• Massive scalability
• Low latency (likely sub-second)
• Free transfers

Do not lose sight of the fact that cryptos are used as an investment. As an investor I have clear the advantages of Bitshares: stable and self-guaranteed price currencies with which I can make backups of my investments. Coins that give 5% per year, a DEX own where no one can steal the coins. Instant transactions.

All this is easily understandable. From EOS I am clear the free transactions, but the rest I am not sure to fully understand, and how many of these functionalities would be used by 75% of investors.

It is possible, I do not doubt, that EOS is a magnificent platform, but that will not be enough to succeed if we do not perceive its advantages in a way as clear and honest as those of Bitshares.

When will any official proposal appear on bsips?

If you want to swap BTC with OPEN.BTC, why not do it via OpenLedger's gateway? It needs trust from the first place. If you want to swap BTC with BitBTC, there will be a fee involved, and may have liquidity issue. If you want to swap BTC with BTS or other token, it will be a mess. BitShares has on-chain order books, which IMHO should not be weaken by any means. That said, we are an exchange, OTC markets are our competitor.

We have really understood it well. There is no need to use a trusted third party, if the blockchain can do that job. That is part of the concept of Bitshares and, in fact, of all the cryptocurrencies. The gateways have not solved the liquidity problem of the Smartcoins, but a direct exchange in the DEX (BTC by BitBTC and ETH by BitETH) could do much to solve the problem. There is no danger that operations will exit the DEX. Once you have BitBTC, BitETH, etc. trading will be faster and cheaper than in exchanges that only operate with Atomic Swaps.

I think the opposite is true. Atomic swaps could provide trustless gateways between bitBTC and BTC, which would be a big plus.
But atomic swaps are complicated and slow. Too slow for everyday trading, and certainly too slow to be a competitor for the 3-second-trading you can do on our DEX.

Exact. That's the problem. The Atomic Swaps could serve to initially obtain BTS through BTC, as does a Gateway, but would be very slow for the intradia trading, where the exchange of smartcoins is fast and cheap.

That's why I made the above proposal, to allow the direct change BTC BitBTC in the DEX, without Gateway.

Have you made a detailed proposal? Or is this still in the idea stage?

No. It's just an idea, I do not understand how something so obvious is not working from the beginning. I would like someone with better knowledge of bitshares to fully develop it.

There is at least one possibility to exchange BitBTC and BTC in the DEX, without any need of Gateway or third parties.

For example: Alice, Bob and the witness create a 2-of-3 multisign BTS address. Two signatures are required, the witness and Alice or Bob to withdraw the deposit.

A has 0.1 BTC and B has 0.1 BitBTC and both want to exchange them. For this, A and B deposit an escrow of 0.12 BitBTC each in the BTS multisign address. A and B report their bitcoin addresses to the DEX and both close the operation. The DEX checks periodically if the bitcoin has been transferred between the specified addresses and if so and there is a confirmation, he signs and returns the escrow to A. It also checks if BitBTC has been transferred. In that case he signs and returns the escrow to B and the operation ends completely.

It is necessary to have BitBTC to buy BitBTC, but as it is possible to iterate the procedure, a very small amount is enough. The Dex could handle this iteration, performing the interchange in stages.

so you want atomic swaps ... yeah, why not. nothing new though, and no need for witnesses

Sí, pero parece ser que la implementación de atomic swaps es muy compleja, mientras tanto mi propuesta funcionaría

There is at least one possibility to exchange BitBTC and BTC in the DEX, without any need of Gateway or third parties.

For example: Alice, Bob and the witness create a 2-of-3 multisign BTS address. Two signatures are required, the witness and Alice or Bob to withdraw the deposit.

A has 0.1 BTC and B has 0.1 BitBTC and both want to exchange them. For this, A and B deposit an escrow of 0.12 BitBTC each in the BTS multisign address. A and B report their bitcoin addresses to the DEX and both close the operation. The DEX checks periodically if the bitcoin has been transferred between the specified addresses and if so and there is a confirmation, he signs and returns the escrow to A. It also checks if BitBTC has been transferred. In that case he signs and returns the escrow to B and the operation ends completely.

It is necessary to have BitBTC to buy BitBTC, but as it is possible to iterate the procedure, a very small amount is enough. The Dex could handle this iteration, performing the interchange in stages.