If staking is removed for now then the only winner is proper governance / consensus.

I'm open to discussions on staking and how it can protect from exchanges etc but I think really that part needs a lot of thought.

It's really sad to see that Abit has still support.

No remorse at all.
On the contrary attacking Rudex and other people who condone his actions being confident in his final success and no consequences.
People should really read what he says.

Abit More, [16.08.20 12:36]
Alt clearly stated he doesn't support forking. You know what does it mean?

Abit More, [16.08.20 12:37]
Your friend Thule will be abandoned

I don't care if i have 100 million votes,1 million votes or 1 vote.
I condem your actions and your low ethics.I posted already months ago that your ethics are fucked up which you just proof each day from new .
You are burned for the most people in western community because of your bad actions.


Abit suggesting to someone else that cn-votes patch is malcious or broke (which i personly don't belive)

Abit More, [16.08.20 12:30]
You surely know what's in the cnvote patch

Abit More, [16.08.20 12:30]
I said run it at your own risk

But even it should be true ,he is not willing to say what exectly.
So what does he really care about?
The good for bitshares and its community or his own personal success?

People should open their eyes and look who Abit surrounded himself with and support.The most corrupted people on bitshares who destroyes everything in western chats by supporting his abuse claiming what he did was rightfull and that the patch is an act of trojan horse.

How much more do we need to listen to these scammers?

Quote from: matle85 on August 16, 2020, 10:15:20 am

I will just steal Thule's listing format:

vote decay          YES
collateral            YES
DPOS1               YES
Stacking            No - needs some thought about weighting etc, let's figure that out first.

Way of implementation    - we need to figure out how this vulnerability is closed in the future. I agree with Bitcrab that Abit wasn't doing evil and I'm actually glad someone has stepped up but really it shouldn't be possible for one person to make such big changes.

Ill vote on chain when I'm at my computer.

The solution I suspect is probably that witnesses will have to do some due diligence on deployment in the future so the process of reviewing updates is more decentralised.

Part of this may be the calibre of witness - cn-vote brought in witnesses who agree to give them part of their pay and we lost witnesses like clockwork, does anyone think clockwork would have missed this change?

Maybe the corrupt voting of witnesses is part of what let this happen.

Alternatively we code in some additional payment to witnesses that they get at each release to pay for the time they spend on this review or something if we feel it is too much to ask of them otherwise.

or
liondani or terradac.
Providing simple VPS and even not participating in bithares.

Best witnesses we can get.But who is blaming BEOS or the chinese guy outside from cn-vote who made the inside deal ?

Simple question

Is BEOS currently voting reasonable or do they only vote for self benefit ?
Inside deals on witnesses
Inside deals on committee who are over 1 1/2 year inactive.
How do you perfom control function as committee if these people are inactive ?
Supporting scam workers.Denying to vote what even own community wants.
Wanting funding from reserve pool for BEOS
Very bad reputation

So why exectly would one give them more voting power ?

Who dumped again 60-80 millions of BTS ?


Lets compare Dima vs BEOS

Dima builds on bitshares and brings community of active traders.Developing for free gateway and mobile app.Even a trading bot
He is going to lose majority of his support.


And we have BEOS doing nothing only putting themself into good positions without providing anything or participating in anything.
Their VP in total increases against before and they get the ability to stake since they don't do anything with their BTS.

Is this a fair system ?

How much time did we gave one of our biggest proxy OL to ask his voters to update their vote to not lose completly voting power to have  a say in stacking feature?

Also from the logic of the new voting system?
Who is the winner in general of these changes ?Clearly not the average community member but the big stake holders increasing their influence even bigger.

So it's best to fork.

Didn't community already showed that they have no more trust in you guys ?
Rudex having more liquidity and volume without MM contest than you when paying to trade on gdex from committee funds.
How much more proof do you need ?

Who is going to follow you ?Foreigners who call you scammer or cn-vote members ?

Quote

The biggest fear of a lot of foreign businesses is the increase of power of beos/dl .They want increase of power for the whole community against big proxies and not another group (which is openly celebrating these changes) which they consider worse than cn-vote.

I didn't get these information from foreign businesses, many businesses seems support these changes.


This is  the vote power now, let's the data talk:

beos:          70.0M
baozi:         53.3M
B-DEX:        47.5M
CN-VOTE:    237.0M

So you can tell us which foreign businesses have this fear about beos?!

The vote power of BEOS is 270M in 2019, now only have 170M bts on beos account, why did they fear BEOS, noe fear CN-VOTE?!

The highest vote power of CN-VOTE is 271M, only have 30M BTS is not leveraged collateral.

Fair vote.

I can tell you many businesses however i doubt they want to be named public as these conversations are always in private chats.
2 businesses who have knowingly big issues with dl and beos are for example Palmpay or Rudex.
The gateways who have been threatened by DL to be kicked out over a longer period of time people seem to not know.
Ask foreigners in bitsharesdex channel what they think about BEOS.
You will hear that S word.
Ask people there what they think about DL and his KYC and centralization plan ?
Majority say they can't be so dumb to really execute their plan as bitshares would be gone quickly.
Ask Palmpay how quickly he would fork away when BEOS/DL should be in control.
Or if Rudex will keep building ?
Or if old core members will stay at bitshars when BEOS gets control.

Everyone knows even from past private chats which have been leaked that BEOS is looking to get control over reserve pool to finance BEOS.

Here a snippet what goes arround old members

Michael Taggart (aka "Murderistic", "Michael X", "fromzer0t0her0") is getting away with blatantly defrauding thousands of consumers. The law will catch up with you and others. There comes a time where you can no longer hide behind calling everything “FUD.” - Aenigma Capital
 
1) adventure marketing llc
2) pr guerrilla
3) rock steady inc
4) bitcoin united, btc-u
5) dac marketing llc
6) steem cash
7) infinite markets llc
landmark technologies
9) accrusoft webinars (with matt trainer)
10) island paradise llc
11) all-in-one seo
12) fake referrer generator tlt (youtube)
13) fake poll bots, web summit etc.
14) lotto shares (customers refunded)
15) mogul - build your invisible empire (a game?)
16) banx mint, banx shares, banx platinum, banx mining, banx capital ponzi (with mark lyford)
17) entrepreneur action (as per ian demartino)
18) steem voting bot (unpaid. blames it on mark lyford)
19) bitcoin latina
20) sovereign hero ponzi
21) arise bank, arisen, agov, afood, awater, avote, abank, arisecoin, aco/rsn, eaco (with jared rice)
22) dweb, dbank, dchurch, dgov, etc (with jared rice. major copyright/license disputes)
23) bench, bench wallet, etc (with jared rice)
24) remittio
25) ruon
26) sovereignsky (cubesats crashing into satellites)
27) missionspaceone
28) quintric gold and silver (public audits are denied), quint, quints, quintx, iquint, iquints, quintcard
29) biquitous
30) cloudcoin?
31) stokens (with john gotts)
32) eosstealth
33) eristica
34) hypernomex
35) stealthgrid, stealthcrypto, stealthcloud, stealthiot
36) beos (a $13B valuation? crypto connie show- "20% of eos" (all videos deleted)), no multisig, wif key access issues, airdrops for votes..
37) btsmd (illegal profits, and "lost keys")
38) btsma
39) manna
40) payger (with chris4210)
41) qfund security token
42) ..?
 
"To me, if one is constantly accused of been a scammer, and his defense all the more defensive.. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work it out." - @D4vegee, Bitsharestalk

I could also add pictures of past private convos with their intentions.

You see now why foreigners don't want BEOS to get in control ?
You got of course some service providers who hope with the help of BEOS to get their workers approved.

Let me tell you something.BEOS has complelty no clue what they are talking or doing.They are good talkers and nothing more.
Mainly looking for their self benefit and BEOS is the complete opposite to bitshares fundamentals.
You give BEOS power you can be sure majority of foreigners will leave sooner or later.Old members will leave sooner.

Maybe ask how many people including businesses have been threatened by Beos to get sued when not stopping to provide information about BEOS.

The vote power of BEOS is 270M in 2019, now only have 170M bts on beos account, why did they fear BEOS, noe fear CN-VOTE?!

Why did it go back ?Because beos supporting scam workers,inside deals and refused to vote for getting pegg back for bitcny ?

Their members demanded their support for it which they denied.Instead they supported inside deals and workers from jademont like the scam exchange.
Thats the result of their voting habbits.
Ask these people who left BEOS why they did.I talk with them daily.

Also what happend to proxies like OL or Dima ?Nearly all voting power gone.
So a single guy decides who will keep his voting power and who not and who's will increase by stacking ?

Would everyone be stacking in cn-vote tell me who would be using DEX ?


Sorry i don't support malcious code added by a core member.If it fits me or not.I accept this one i indirectly support the next one giving hope that something like that can pass.
Another issue is its clearly favorising beos in the long run which majority of foreigners have a clear problem with.
Also the fud created from DL and Abit against CN-Vote is not acceptable.
Just read how both supported the wise actions of cn-vote a month ago to spread now such a fud.
It was Abit who defended cn-vote and their "wise" actions and banned anyone even admins who dared to question cn-votes voting.

I prefer to focus on real solutions which is getting after august 20th positive voting features voted in via BSIP by consensus.
And give  fresh blood which have been blocked for ages by members who keep milking the reserve pool and block any ideas which don't fit in their own agenda and centralization of bitshares arround them.


You need to understand there are two group in bitshares.

One big group who belive in decentralization and old fundamentals of bitshares
and a few people who hold key positions who want to centralize bitshares arround them.

These two groups can't fit together as the first group will never accept centralization and people like DL will never stop trying to centralize bitshares arround them.

when we can spent the money from the committee-account without the permission of vote, the consensus already gone, just many of us didn't realize it on that time, we all become the trojan already from that moment.

Who started it ?Abit and Bitcrab ?So i follow their next protocol break ?


I disagree that BEOS is the better evil.
Sentiment in foreign community is to go with cn-vote instead of beos.
It's because people are aware of beos history and their voting habbits.


Also a lot of people get back active so its a good time to push for changes based on consensus as i doubt cn-vote will block any good
proposals.Also the voting power is just 240 million BTS of them.
So nobody can claim they are able to block everything when everyone else agrees on something.

I can't help you. For me personally abit and a core manager are criminals and must be blacklisted from the core forever.
I'm tired that the same group over and over again opens different pandora boxes.

Like predicted it won't stop at one trojan


DL to Abit
I get it. But then there is not much to be discussed. 2a and 2b are safest option but require significant work as to my understanding. @abitmore ? Can we do 2a for a quick fix and just remove any votes from witnesses (make voting irrelevant over fixed list) until 2b is implemented ?

Abit confirms to focus on that


Forcing at all cost his point of view not accepting a no.

I know for a fact that some people are now focusing on DL to hold him responsible for his actions and statements.
Witnesses can be also hold responsible.
Please remember DL is very well aware that witnesses are liable for their actions and told before that is the problem of witnesses.He doesn't care if you will get legal issues.
Please inform yourself first about your liability before adding KNOWINGLY a second malcious code.

I didn't choosed i follow protocol/rules even i disagree that BEOS/DL is the smaller evil.


I can't demand from others to act according to protocol and consensus and support at the same time a clear cheat caused by one of the main cheater on bitshares just because it may fit me.

Let's do it the right way.

Quote

There are more good old longterm witnesses who provided first class infra who have been replaced by bitcrab/abit and beos to add witnesses who provide a simple VPS only and don't even participate in bitshares at all.

I don't think so，this is not the fault of bitcrab/abit and beos, after CN-VOTE created, the big Proxy is not bitcrab/abit anymore，the big Proxy is CN-VOTE, even beos still support the most number witness, face the date and the true.

https://bts.ai/voting_report

BEOS did clearly inside deals nobody can deny.Or do you belive 2 witnesses from BEOS receive at the same time support when
two chinese reiceives from beos ?

4 new committee members in single hour.
BEOS supporting cn-vote members and cn-vote supporting BEOS members.

I did some digging about that voting and you can basicly say majority of cn-vote members don't know why they support liondani and evangelist who haven't been active a single time in 1 1/2 years.

Who did the inside deals i can only guess from past experience of proposals i received which i always rejected.
What is very clear is that BEOS has a very good relationship with Jademont and DL

DL is now the new director of BEOS.


If you blame CN-Vote for supporting the shitty workers or blocking then i need to tell you without the help of BEOS they would not be able to do so.
Restoring bitcny price feed was rejected from BEOS with the argumentation people can get hurt (bitcrab didn't wanted it at that time)
Today they attack cn-vote for blocking to restore pegg and claim to instantly restore pegg.
Now they have no more issue of people getting hurt when average CR got very lower ?


I know CN-Vote and i know BEOS.

BEOS is far worse than CN-Vote and together with Abit and DL it is a total mess.
Centralization and dictorship pure.


Most people agree on that.

It's easier to find consent with cn-vote than being under BEOS.


Also the attack of Abit and DL fudding that CN-Vote is forking and should leave bitshares is something i can't accept at all.
Today its cn-vote because you don't like their voting and tomorrow its me because they don't like my voice.

Abit already muted all critical foreigners using his bot which he refuses to disable even when asked from all other admins.

Another question is who is causing the big corruption on bitshares?
Is it cn-vote ?IMO and many others its not cn-vote but Abit/Bitcrab/Jademont and BEOS.
Each other supporting themself makes such a corruption we have in committee first possible.
I'm 4 years now in bitshares and never saw such a big corruption we got today.And its mainly caused by these people and that won't change just because you switch vp from cn-vote to beos which is already supporting that corruption.

Abit and Bitcrab are trying to switch vp because they lost their influence in cn-vote who got tired of their permanent ignorance.

I talked a lot with CN-Vote and they expresses me their bad feelings that Abit is not listeing to their opinions but basicly acts based on his own personal opinion (or bitcrab) .
Tell me who opened a BAIP instead of normal worker ?
Who refuses to execute community will?
Who changes rules for its own favour like gdex ?


So claiming that the new voting system is needed to change when the most corrupt people stay is just a simple lie.
Changing power from bad voters to corruption supporters is no solution at all.