I don't like DL too，but

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Debt holders in bitusd will get rekkt with his actions.

These were just a part of CN-VOTE debtor in bitusd.
 
1   1.2.458268   fangli0755   1.94
2   1.2.698   map   1.67
3   1.2.544003   chinaking888   1.5
4   1.2.166673   facem   1.88
5   1.2.1688430   dqt812   1.7
6   1.2.415588   hangjun-btss   1.73
7   1.2.18114   cny123   5.58
8   1.2.878397   zb170352718   2.99
9   1.2.5420   ptschina   2.87
10   1.2.186512   jinlicheng1   1.7
11   1.2.712461   waterkawaye509   1.78
12   1.2.187916   hongcaibao111   1.72
13   1.2.169701   yinghuilong   1.69
14   1.2.900314   guotiger1206   1.71
15   1.2.1037129   suny5392   1.73
16   1.2.1750391   shlzbts2020   1.93
17   1.2.1620696   get-richy   1.69
18   1.2.20197   xiaoshan   1.85
19   1.2.155713   hwbts   2.7
20   1.2.998   spring   1.7
21   1.2.480517   sunshine991019   1.73
22   1.2.403666   gold-star   1.68
23   1.2.129515   jinjue082016   1.84

Want to solve the problem of bitusd, i will give some thoughts later...Devaluation is too big...very hard...

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They can't make a patch on BitShares for BitShares

Maybe he said is right，seems he own the trademark of “BitShares” and "BTS", if this is true, anyone can't change it.


About consensus, i want to say when we support a consensus like BSIP 76 in such a long time and didn't want to resovle these problems quickly, we only have a false consensus, when we use a BAIP-threthold not be approved by the community as a voting standards，we didn't have consensus any more.

I was monitoring bitusd debtors before bsip76 and after.
Majority of the current debt positions had no bad debt being in margin call before BSIP76.
They increased their debt some time after the announcement of BSIP76.
So blaming them to create or increase debt in BitUSD after BSIP76 is just wrong and making them responsible or hurting for this even more.

Maybe he said is right，seems he own the trademark of “BitShares” and "BTS", if this is true, anyone can't change it.

He has no authority at all.He would love to control bitshares with legal and trademarks but his EU trademark is worth horseshit.
His threaths to gateways or all social media account users showed that he completly lost reality and looks to centralize bitshares arround him.
Calling gateway owners animals or telling gateways like rudex that he is going to kick them out of bitshares calling chinese in general dumb scammers and many other points are not acceptable .His ethics are also totaly fucked up.You should have read what he supported everything in the past and how he already planned with george a hostile takeover using witnesses even they may be held liable for their actions in their jurisdiction and fork out chinese.
His comment was "its their issue."
He has only trademark for EU so he basicly has nothing as long as he won't get world wide trademark.Also even when getting
world wide he can keep only the name community will take the chain.

Noone is going to invest a dime into his shit


George:
The main thing is we maintain the BTS ticker on exchanges during a fork.

Then China can fork off and their chain will die and if they have some new ticker on some random China exchanges who cares

xeroc: Uff
that's gonna cause a lot of drama if you think about it


George:
Also any fork will cause drama

xeroc:
not if you start 'fresh' .. different name .. learn from the past mistakes ..

George:
Yes but the mountain to climb for liquidity and impact on existing businesses is very large with a fresh chain

Building BTS traction and liquidity with exchanges in 2019 literally requires millions of dollars upfront

Therefore imho a fork of existing chain and maintaining existing liquidity and tickers is preferable as there is no upfront costs for listings and small switching costs for existing users. If stakeholders want to change name at that point too then I’m sure that get support and it may look more ‘fresh’

xeroc:
to do that 'morally' right, you'd need consensus on chain. you wont get that imho

also, whoever would do that 'forking' could be liable for fraud

George:
If people want to follow the fork then they can, if they don’t they won’t. Won’t get everyone agreeing and that’s ok


DL:
and its morally ok

compared to situation blockchain has after being too fair (moral) to some players

George:
It’s up to witnesses to move to a new fork

Xeroc:
liability!

George:
So? It’s up to witnesses who are random accounts on the internet. If you’re talking about someone who lives in some jurisdiction who may have a problem with that then that’s their problem. Not BTS or the new chain

DL:
thumbs up for (So? It’s up to witnesses who are random accounts on the internet. If you’re talking about someone who lives in some jurisdiction who may have a problem with that then that’s their problem. Not BTS or the new chain)
giving a choice is fair enough
picking one is not concern of fork


Only one who kept ethics up during that conversation was xeroc

Quote from Digital Lucifer

Here a quote from Digital Lucifer

You need to lock 1BTS to keep voting power x1
No collateral voting - at all.

They can. Make a patch, rename BTS and BitShares and move on
They can't make a patch on BitShares for BitShares. Especially not a patch which is saying "I want to have 1.7x more power than I have money"
This change, when it comes to BitShares is irreversible and there is no coming back to corruption regardless what everyone said
Second of all fixed price and collateral just means dead markets - and even margin holders are aware of that because they have no way to close positions
If you take a look at the debts of first top 5 holders in BitUSD - none of them has that BTS or BitUSD left to close the debt
Instead of arbitrage BTS/BitUSD and BTS/USDT we have no arbitrage, no markets and no liquidity
And having in mind all that BTS collateralized, held by cexes and no ability to get new one in some serious amount - no new MPA has sense (like honest assets) until we have enough BTS to spin it properly.
So only real solution to any MPA having sense here is removal of bad debts and restoration of price feeds
Mm contest and liquidity mining as proven did nothing in terms of activity or bringing new users - and costed us more than core prelude worker or UI and infra that are much needed for long time
Now if we look back 2019, workers were stopped as useless cost to the blockchain but milking contest are ok.
Wait for votes to get locked and voting slate to be formed. Workers are useless without anyone to vote on them and we changed consensus not things voted or available for voting on it. There is a limit of how much this push can do, now it's up to the new holders
I'll have worker up by end of the week for BitUSD
No, clear worker poll to remove fixed feeds, 30 days to close their margins and terms and conditions on witnesses when to apply.

You can see that guy has completly no knowledge about trading.Debt holders in bitusd will get rekkt with his actions.
And something like him is being promoted as legal for bitshares.
Anyone supporting this idiot will kill bitshares even more.People with funds will keep leaving.

If he is unhappy he could make a fork.But who with money is going to follow such an idiot ?
Instead he pushed for a hostile takeover to keep getting paid from these people funds he destroyes.

I won't support this hostile takeover and damage of big part of the community.

Best part of him claiming they changed consensus.Does he really think some people with no BTS forcing others their point of view has anything to do with a consensus ?

The reputation damage i won't even mention

They can. Make a patch, rename BTS and BitShares and move on

DL will be hold liable as he as core prelude manager knew that the mainnet 4 will include this unaproofed code.

so why submit the voting for these 4 features immediately?

Because the voting results would be diffrent with the new voting system and the main reason
bitshares protocol has been completly broken.

Today the voting system and what will come tomorrow if you accept something like that ?

Who is going to hold money in a system where a single person can decide about everything and make your investment worthless with no information,voting or announcement ?

Also what has been done so something like that can't happen again ?

The new voting system is totaly immature and has some features which are dangerous.



Also in my opinion witnesses are not being forced but its basicly their duty to be the keeper that cheats in code can't be added into bitshares.They gurantee the security of bitshares.

Big holders like beos or alt can lock for 360 days 100million bts which is not an issue and get 400 million votes +  remaining 200 milliion votes.Who is going to oppose them ?Where do you find on the other side 100 million bts willing to lock  ?
Such a system favours big holders giving them the opportunity to get even more stronger if there is such a will from their side.


Also BTS was created as utlity token with the funcionality to be used as collateral and main currency on DEX.This voting system is in deny with that functionality as you can't participate in the ecosystem creating bitassets and getting at the same time the same amount of votes as being inactive to participate in bitshares progress.


A general question.

Is a BTS holder who doesn't use his BTS better than somebody who uses his BTS in bitshares ecosystem for which it was constructed ?
The simple holder non active member gets a benefit of up to 8 times VP from his BTS where the active member who is using his BTS activly on bitshares dex gets punished for it?

A non active member should have the possibility to have up to 8 times more voting power than an active member ?


Do we really favor inactive members over active members?

这个规则本来就是老外社区提出来的，老外肯定支持啊

Quote from: binggo on July 31, 2020, 05:15:02 am

Quote from: lovegan007 on July 31, 2020, 05:08:25 am

BTS已经没救了，Abit一个人可以敌得过整个BTS社区和全部理事会，Abit一个人敌得过30亿BTS票权，还有什么好投票的?理事会全是渣渣了，干不过一个Abit。Abit一人即是天下。

我看到国外社区基本对这个规则意见不大啊😂，国内部分社区也没意见啊😹

至于规矩嘛，不是早就坏了嘛，MM投票换仓作弊，用未被社区投票激活的BAIP做规则不也是溜的不行嘛😹

所以不要激动😅

No the foreigner doesn't support anything which has not being implemented according to protocol.
Don't call Digital Lucifer/BEOS foreigners

I mentioned in the past multiple times that abit has fucked up ethics.He basicly has none and cheating or scamming someone is no problem for him as long as it fits his personal point of view.

Many foreigners left before.Some people are working on fork and are very advanced and today with abits trojan horse adding his own voting system with no consent or discussion with current holders will make that more foreigners will leave.
Bitshares is already CMC 100.
2 foreign businesses who have their own communities have already commented to look for another chain because all that BS on bitshares makes it risky to keep focusing and working on bitshares.



A serious question to people is why do you think crypto will have a major run soon ?
The answer is the devalution of USD losing sole role as world reserve currency.

So who is going to mainly flood current crypto coins (not sto)?
Its basicly countries who have USD or any kind of currency which is corelated with USD like EUR,AUD,NZD etc.
You can say basicly foreigners!!!!!Foreigners will jump into crypto to flee from big inflaton of their local currency.

What do you think how bitshares will run in the bull market when majority foreigners left bitshares and it is being considered a scam on foreigners informational websites ?
The bull will be small because majority of funds will come not from china but western countries which currencies will devalue.

Update

Another one leaving bitshares blockchain to create its own now because of the inability of longterm planing

Which Dev's are responsible for that ?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=32545.msg343183;topicseen#msg343183


You think you can just change voting system with no consensus ?