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Messages - Geneko

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121
General Discussion / Re: Have we passed a centralization tipping point?
« on: October 26, 2014, 06:29:43 pm »
Quote from: Stan on October 26, 2014, 06:05:09 pm

When delegates get paid with new share reciepts, that is exactly what is happening.  They are getting credit for their added contributions.

So, if you are tempted to use the word "inflation" with respect to BitShares, stop.  Go back to first principles and be happy. :)

Nobody is arguing here because of purpose for this marriage of Voting-Inflation but because of the way it will work.

Big problem arises with this marriage of Voting-Inflation and I think nobody is able to grasp future consequents. Voting and inflation is meant as substitute for free market forces engaged in hiring and pricing for developers work.
 
The problem arises because of know Parkinson's Law: a project will cost whatever there is available to spend.

But the cost is not the main problem. Set aside inflation problem and lets focus on Voting.
How am I, as average stake holder, going to evaluate quality and cost of developers work, and how could I predict market value of this work. Here we come with another Parkinson’s Law of triviality known as "bikeshedding":

Committee whose job is to approve plans for a nuclear power plant spent the majority of its time with pointless discussions on relatively trivial and unimportant but easy-to-grasp issues, such as what materials to use for the staff bike-shed, while neglecting the less-trivial proposed design of the nuclear power plant itself, which is far more important but also a far more difficult and complex task to criticize constructively.

Obviously this marriage of Voting-Inflation is suggested in a hurry I beg for some more serious considerations of its implications. The fact that Ethereum team come up with idea doesn’t mean it is considered carefully. 

122
General Discussion / Re: Deflationary Development Model -- Join my experiment
« on: October 23, 2014, 11:53:05 pm »
@fluxer555

Very nice work, please continue.

123
General Discussion / Re: 10% dilution = 650,000 BTS a day
« on: October 23, 2014, 11:48:28 pm »
Quote from: jsidhu on October 23, 2014, 10:56:31 pm

Have you seen this thread? https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10385.15;topicseen

It's a proposal to have the DACs proposed as a deflationary model UNTIL the DAC gets integrated or is completed satisfactorily... if merged it will dilute BTS, otherwise it's asset is removed if it can't function profitably on its own... so essentially only diluting on DACs that are shown to work and have been voted in... It's a trustless way to raise funds through BTS without diluting, people invest their BTS instead and BTS is burned in favor of the new Dac asset. If something brings in value and more value than dilution then you merge it after a vote. Essentially this would balance out any inflation and probably put more deflationary pressure on the currency depending on how competent new DACs are being released. It would be hard to imagine how collusion can steer corruption in this model.

No I didnt. On the first sight it looks brilliant,

Thanks!

124
General Discussion / Re: 10% dilution = 650,000 BTS a day
« on: October 23, 2014, 10:50:00 pm »
Collective responsibility is very dangerous thing.

Like this proposed dilution is nothing more than printing press in hands of delegates or way of taxing on share holders. If this become true soon you will have “strategic alliances” between delegates that would reconstruct all politic parties and state related structures of bureaucracy. Their only motivation will be to provide votes for dilution. As they gain power they will “kill and bribe” in order to gain more power and in synergy with whales they will change the rules so soon average share holder will no longer be able to change anything similar to average voter in today’s democracy.

And what are goals of proposed dilution. To provide funding for future development of Dacs.
If you want to support some project or development team you should be able to decide of you own, not to be up voted by majority. If you want money for development you should do something like Kick Starter funding platform or a bounty system for gaining financial support.

Self-management is utopian idea based on collective responsibility. It should be avoided for all cost. Here is one of proven examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia

Unfortunately I was able to experience it from the first hand. The most compiling example is described in Stud Hunt (i.e. Game Theory). Soon everybody is going to hunt a rabbit.

125
General Discussion / Re: 10% dilution = 650,000 BTS a day
« on: October 22, 2014, 09:04:30 pm »
Quote from: zhangweis on October 22, 2014, 08:31:25 pm
2 billion bts * (1+20%) = 2.4 billion. 2.4 billion * 10% / 365 = 657,534 bts

That makes about 650,000 bts a day. To me, this has much much bigger impact than PTS, AGS, DNS merge.

Well, btc currently has about 10% dilution but it's also decreasing along the time.

If we have to pay high to delegates at the moment, at least we should decrease the rate along the time.

Now this is very interesting. Could somebody please explain what exactly delegates are able to do. They will be able to "print shares".

 
Quote from: Rune on October 22, 2014, 08:47:39 pm
Dilution will only EVER be given to delegates that are profitable. If 650000 BTS is diluted each day, that means we are making back even more than that. The only risk is that the DAC fails to provide a framework that is transparent enough to allow stakeholders to accurately determine whether a delegate is profitable or not, or that the voting culture becomes corrupted by politics and delegate looting becomes possible.


How is this going to work exactly. Could somebody please explain assuming I have hear it for the first time.

126
General Discussion / Re: 10% dilution = 650,000 BTS a day
« on: October 22, 2014, 08:48:45 pm »
Quote from: Ander on October 22, 2014, 08:45:13 pm
Quote from: nomoreheroes7 on October 22, 2014, 08:43:16 pm
Quote from: zhangweis on October 22, 2014, 08:31:25 pm
2 billion bts * (1+20%) = 2.4 billion. 2.4 billion * 10% / 365 = 657,534 bts

Waitaminute, isn't the new share supply from the merger 2.5 billion, not 2.4 billion? Am I missing something here?

It should be 2.5 billion.


It is important to realize that while the share count is going up, so is the value.

BTS will have more shares than BTSX, but it also contains the features of DNS, VOTE, etc, and will be the primary chain to be snapshotted for any future DAC spinoffs, which currently go to PTS/AGS.

It is 2/0.8=2,5

127
General Discussion / Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« on: October 21, 2014, 09:55:17 pm »
Guys,

There is lot of games (i.e. Game Theory) going on here. Arguments are not the only card in this game. It is impossible to resolve it by democratic means.

On the other hand B.M has its Vision having hard time to draw picture for all. Although I disapprove with pragmatic nature of his deciding this is probably territory from where his genius come from. 
 
Bottom line is: Do we trust this guy or not?

I say Yes and going to act accordingly.
Good Luck

128
General Discussion / Re: AN UPDATE ON THE MARKETING CAMPAIGN....can you tell us what's up???
« on: October 10, 2014, 10:04:30 pm »
Quote from: Murderistic on October 10, 2014, 08:47:26 pm
Things are going well on the marketing campaign.  We are getting further on funnel and page development.  We are close to making a good deal for offramp on the funnel, so we have onramp - funnel, offramp.

We will be targeting people that are in lateral markets for the time being, while working on mainstreet funnel for 2015.  Our goal is to not go after everyone right now, but to expand past crypto fans right now.  To go after crypto only is like hitting on our sister or cousin.  You might bag em, but you really run out of options fast.  Like the analogy?  It is an incestuous circle, as I mentioned to people while in Las Vegas this week.  Going after crypto only right now only gets us so far...it's like playing in a public swimming pool, that is located next to a lake...located next to an ocean.  We wanna hit the lake...the people in the pool will find us regardless...and the ocean is the next stop.

This sound great!

This is called - changing the rules of the game.
I hope you are well prepared, this will cause lot of buzz..


129
General Discussion / Re: Discussion on reaching out to active traders to try BTSX experiment.
« on: September 17, 2014, 08:49:37 pm »
Quote from: gamey on September 17, 2014, 08:06:45 pm

What is the original source of the list you are wishing to contact ?


This is someone that has established relationship and curtain level of trust with our targeted audience.
Let me explain. It could be someone that regularly sends newsletter to our targeted audience.

Quote from: gamey on September 17, 2014, 08:06:45 pm

While this can be done with grassroots, I'm not sure it is very inspiring.  It sounds more to me like something that should be done by a paid marketer.  While it could be done as a grassroots thing, I would be surprised if you find the proper motivations. 


Sorry I didnt recognize from headline that you are targeting grassroots communities.

Anyway if you want to reach out active traders and make them try BTSX I couldnt think of a better, faster and more reliable way of doing this. This is not trivial task and should be approached as such.

Quote from: gamey on September 17, 2014, 08:06:45 pm

You're asking for coldcalling etc.   Personally emailing?  People aren't being motivated that much by some political sense, so if you wish to harness  grass roots help, it needs to be something people don't mind doing.

While I'm not going to push forums because I have yet to find the right forums for this stuff, I am not sure how it is any more time consuming than your proposal.


Yes that is why we have Brian and marketing team. I thought you are searching ideas for them as well.

Once again sorry I have misunderstood the whole thing.

130
General Discussion / Re: Discussion on reaching out to active traders to try BTSX experiment.
« on: September 17, 2014, 07:48:13 pm »
There are also some other ways to approach them. First of all those people are busy so I would not suggest forum approach.

I suggest direct mail targeting every one of those with its Name. I would recommend direct contact by telephone but some combination of others means could do also. For those purposes we need a list of targeted audience. At the moment I have no idea now how to create it but sure we could come up with something. We should also need recommendation source a name or some kind of explanation,how we got contact details.
 
Then I would come up with carefully designed invitation letter signed by some respectful member of community, preferably BM, introducing the whole concept and call for an action – to download and install vault and send request for initial funds which could be specially prepared for those invited.
Then let them play with it and say their professional opinion on platform.

The letter should also contain recommendation explanation and invitation for additional questions that should be handled by “sender”, actually by stuff or one man that could be responsible for all requests.

The information’s about technical details should be given with cautious, let them dig more about them, but should be made available. I don’t have in mind actual solution but it is very important to be done step by step. You wouldn’t like to bother someone with block chain technology at beginning, rather how can I use this, how the market works (those people would certainly like to know more about it) and leather what is DPOS and why is Bitcoin needs DPOS and many other we could carefully design.
 
Those on the list that didn’t respond should be contacted more than ones by same or other means also.
It is a process and should be done with execution and persistence level of a company.

That’s it. I would appreciate any comments, thoughts, ideas.

131
General Discussion / Re: Demographics to approach for Bitshares X.
« on: September 17, 2014, 06:09:19 pm »
Quote from: gamey on September 17, 2014, 05:38:44 pm

The specifics of reaching out to these people.  How ?


Ok then please proceed as you planed, open up tread and we will discus it. I have some ideas of my own but those might not been relevant. Maybe someone would come up with some cool ideas.

One more thing. I didn't follow much, how are your efforts synchronized with Brians plans. It would be better to check with them maybe they already has related plans, Brian has mentioned something, so we might be doubling jobs.

132
General Discussion / Re: Demographics to approach for Bitshares X.
« on: September 16, 2014, 10:12:54 pm »
Quote from: gamey on September 16, 2014, 09:09:30 pm

I think most people I'd consider smart on this board agree with you.  Not sure anyone would disagree. 

I'm not sure typical funds will be dipping into BTSX anytime soon, but I think sharp daytraders looking for edges etc might be quicker.  The question is where do either of these people congregate?  There is a lot of noise on the internet and smart+wealthy people are usually good at weeding out the noise.  That makes it even harder to reach them.

Listen to the last dev hangout from 9-12 and at the end Brian talks for awhile.  He had some cool ideas.  https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/bitshares-community-and-developer-hangout-9-12-2014#t=1:14:20

Thanks for the link. Brian really catch my thought.

As for idea doesn't matter is it smart or not, it is obvious. Why should we avoid to do something obvious like Brian did and see what would happen. It is our strategic objective, our final destination. Why should we circle around.

I didn't mean to argue, those are just my thoughts.



133
General Discussion / Re: Demographics to approach for Bitshares X.
« on: September 16, 2014, 08:54:22 pm »
I believe this belong to investors but this is related to assets that are professionally managed for a fee.

According to a Boston Consulting Group study, the assets managed professionally for fees reached an all-time high of US$62.4 trillion in 2012, after remaining flat-lined since 2007.[1] Furthermore, these industry assets under management were expected to reach US$70.2 trillion at the end of 2013 as per a Cerulli Associates estimate.

The survey could be found here:
https://www.bcgperspectives.com/Images/Capitalizing_on_the_Recovery_Jul_2013_tcm80-139325.pdf

The potential of this demographics exceeds all others combine. In my opinion it needs special attention.

The key wording:" The most successful managers in every region now are either specialist or traditional providers who have become "ambideixtrous" -that is they have maintained their active core-asset business while also developing capabilities to capture new faster-growth assets.





134
General Discussion / Re: *** Official grassroots marketing parent thread ***
« on: September 16, 2014, 04:10:38 pm »
You guys never stop to amaze me! Already added to DACZine.

135
General Discussion / Re: Marketing Proposal - Our Unfair Advantage
« on: September 15, 2014, 02:10:52 pm »
Quote from: MeTHoDx on September 15, 2014, 12:57:21 pm
Quote from: Geneko
What I am curies about is how Brian Marketing Department is organized how many people work on this and how they are funded. Are there enough resources available for achieving all his goals?

Brian mentioned there are "people he's talking with" that have invested millions of their own money [in BTSX shares] and will be promoting the concept. I'm really, really hoping classic internet marketing guys like Parry Belcher, Eben Pagan and Frank Kern are on board. If that's the case we'll go past bitcoin in short order.

I didn't mean that. I mean this man has many thing to do on his daily schedule, he probably needs to delegate some jobs.. Is there any actual stuff behind his operations and if there is, who pays for its salaries.

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