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Messages - bobb

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31
Deutsch (German) / Re: Volle Kraft voraus :)
« on: October 23, 2014, 01:28:57 pm »
super Sache! Viele Leute haben noch viel DNS@bter.
Damit kann evtl. allen geholfen werden.

Habe meine Gedanken grad noch einer groesseren Oeffentlichkeit vorgebracht.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10436.0

32
General Discussion / Full steam ahead! :)
« on: October 23, 2014, 01:25:57 pm »
The Bitshares Team is sitting on a flying rocket while building and fixing it at the same time. And that is a damn hard job.
From my perspective they are doing a really good job. Sure, sometimes they screw up. But who doesn't.
But it is not the screw up that matters, it is how you handle it.

If you ever launched your own start-up you know that everything is changing on a daily basis.
You have more investors, users, contractors, partners, lawyers..  than you would have ever imagined.
You learn on a daily basis.

Did the allocation work out best for my interests (alot of DNS@bter)? Not so much. Does it make me mad or angry? No.
Because Dan and Toast tried everything to make it right. I could blame bter for the withdrawal limits but I won't:

It's true that perspective matters. So in the worst case the extra BTS will go directly to bter.
Which is (afaik) the most supportive exchange for the Bitshares ecosystem.

I was avidly arguing against the DNS allocation, because it wasn't right. Was I personally compensated much, yet?
Not really. But I understand why and that is what was lacking before.

So all I ask the people who feel betrayed is to think about is how hard it is to optimize a highly dynamic system in real time while being traded live at the markets.
I guess sometimes you can't make everyone happy. You can just try to make it right for most people.
If you then go the extra mile for the minority which was left out - which you and others did (compensation/fund) - it deserves a lot of respect.
 
What I am doing next? Buying BTSX and setting up delegates (I guess I have to upgrade them soon :)

Thanks everyone! Hope you are holding up well. Full steam ahead!

33
Deutsch (German) / Volle Kraft voraus :)
« on: October 23, 2014, 12:44:06 pm »
Moin,

I3 sitzt grad auf ner Rakete die sie im Flug bauen und reparieren. Die DNS Allocation war nen Griff ins Klo, aber Dan/Toast haben alles versucht um es wieder geradezubiegen.
Auch wenn der Fix von Bytemaster mir persönlich nur bedingt hilft, da viele meiner DNS auf Bter liegen finde ich diesen Schritt wichtig.
Ich denke die erzielte Lösung (fuer PTS/AGS/VOTE/DNS) ist für die Meisten ein guter Kompromiss .   

Was meint Ihr?

34
KeyID / Re: DNS end-of-life: November 5th
« on: October 23, 2014, 06:59:47 am »
I'm a little sad and happy at the same time. But I think it is the right move.
Thank you toast! At some point I was about to loose my trust in you guys.
Instead you manged to make it even stronger. :)

Unfortunately I still have a large part of my DNS at the exchange due to bter's withdrawal limits.
Have you received any response from them yet?

Thanks for everything!

35
I'm trying to see if bter and btc38 can do retroactive snapshots
At this point in time that may be asking a lot in cost benefit...  We already narrowed the cost down to $325K which assuming only 20% was on exchanges we are talking $60,000. 

I guess the 20% assumption may not quite be correct, since it took you at least a week to get out 10M DNS for example.
They had low daily withdrawal limits, which is part of the reason I still have more on it than I would have otherwise.
Again: not complaining here, just trying to help with facts.
Thanks for you efforts!

36
doh! I bought a btc worth of DNS the day before the proposal expecting a 'merger' would push the price up, to my dismay it did the exact opposite and dropped it by more than 1/2. I of course then cut my losses yesterday and sold them all off at around 110. Then this announcement. I do not think I could have played this any worse.

The post that caused the 50% fall.

Unless this means I will get credit for having them at that moment?

I stated earlier that it wasn't just about the money. So if the snapshot with bter works out and your dns investment was a significant one for you I'll take care of that loss for you!
Just please be honest about it :)

37
I'd like to hear from Bobb as well.

Thanks! You came up with a brilliant solution!
Only problem is that bter has a 1.5M daily withdrawal limit, so I guess a lot of people have a part of their balance at bter.
Do we have a contact at bter or does anyone know to reach them? Can I help anyhow in that process?

Don't wanna complain at all: If we get this sorted with bter it is brilliant.

Thank you Bytemaster, Thank you toast!

38
KeyID / Re: Why DNS has to accept the merger, and an apology
« on: October 22, 2014, 06:45:52 pm »
I guess you are not gonna leave it like that and make it right.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10381.0

thanks everyone!

39
KeyID / Re: Why DNS has to accept the merger, and an apology
« on: October 22, 2014, 06:22:09 pm »
You wanna leave it like this?
Bytemaster did not even answer any of these questions:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10341.msg135820#msg135820

I am totally for the merger don't get me wrong.
But Dan advertised DNS/KeyID himself.
Toast assured me that the investments will be preserved.

And all you say is: deal with it?

I lost a lot of money on this and nobody even cares to answer my main  questions.
And it is not that I lost money what is bothering me most. It is that compared to the bother DACs it does not make sense.

Instead I have to listen to Dan stating that he gifted my something.
We all get to choose how to look at things, I didn't take your DNS shares, I gifted you BTS stake.    DNS folks are still free to compete.

Please guys explain to me why this allocation is the right one:

PTS/AGS a slight cut. You can even get out at a reasonable price.
DNS: a totally different story.

40
ok, I take back that 'soley from the BTSX point of view'. It just happens to be the best deal for BTSX holders.
And I know how hard it is for people to put themselves into other peoples shoes.

But my arguments are/were:
You personally advertised DNS/KeyID as one of the core DACs before.
Toast was maintaining it, he contacted exchanges to start trading.
You explicitly mentioned on the forum that the DACs will be valued according to their market cap.
Toast assured anyone that the funds will be preserved!

Could you address this? thanks again!



41
Deutsch (German) / Re: Bzgl. "Proposed Allocation for Merger"
« on: October 22, 2014, 02:08:13 pm »
Das koennen Dan und Stan doch unmoeglich erst meinen (frei 'zitiert'):

"Seid doch froh, dass wir nicht einfach DNS in BTSX/VOTE nachgebaut haben"
"Eure Investments waren nur fuers toolkit, wir haben nie gesagt das wir irgendwann ne neue DAC aufmachen die dann allen anderen Konkurrenz macht"

   Where would you be if Bytemaster had just built VOTE to be as strong as it can be (with its own internal DNS)?
Same exact place, with no one looking out for your interests.

Hat einer von Euch nen direkteren Draht zu den Beiden? Jetzt mal im Ernst.
Und wie gesagt, wenn ich was verpasst habe: Sagt Bescheid :)


42
You are arguing solely from the BTSX point of view.
You personally advertised DNS/KeyID as one of the core DACs before.
Toast was maintaining it, he contacted exchanges to start trading.
You explicitly mentioned on the forum that the DACs will be valued according to their market cap.
Toast assured anyone that the funds will be preserved!

And your argument is that you could have copied toast work anyway and "DNS" should  be lucky that you didn't do that.
I guess my main point is that I think you also have a responsibility for DNS as people invested in it because it was part of your vision.
You can not let people believe that they invest in a DAC which you are also behind and then tell them later screw you I could have copied that anyway.

Let me know if I missed something here.
Thanks for all your efforts! I appreciate it.

43
General Discussion / Can someone explain why DNS is treated differently?
« on: October 22, 2014, 12:57:24 pm »
Hey Guys/Hey Bytemaster,

I guess there is a lot of discussions happening if vesting is a good idea and AGS/PTS are treated fairly.
I also bought some PTS and I think a 10% cut is not that bad if we want Bitshares to thrive.

But I haven't heard a single valid argument why DNS is treated differently.
So maybe somebody is able to help me understand.

Dan argued that DNS's marked cap can not be treated equally because it lacks liquidity and kept telling that $10K figure.
That figure is just not true as it was just pulled from bter and the most volume and liquidity is available at btc38.

Another problem I have  with that argument is that with the proposal in the wild everyone was pulling their bids.
The liquidity established again at the new market price which was a result of the announcement.
So it is a slight stunt to first scare away/down the liquidity and than later start arguing there was none.

Look at the liquidity and volume at the new market price:
http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=dns [nofollow]
http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=dns [nofollow]
The volume on btc38 in the last 24h was about 600.000.000 DNS alone. Thats almost close to the volume of BTSX.
(I know volume is != liquidity but still, the liquidity was just shifted to the new 'announced value')
If liquidity is a reason to devalue the market cap, why wasn't this equally applied for PTS and DNS?

DNS/KeyID  was already trading live. It was pushed to exchanges. Features were announced, etc.
Additionally shareholders have been told by the core team that the invested funds will be preserved.

Do you still think this is balanced? Look at the markets:

BTSX +20%
PTS    -10%
DNS   -50% (at least)

It just feels as you have the least skin in the game at the DNS/KeyID DAC. Is that correct?

For this thread I have one wish. please stay on topic and be nice to each other. I welcome any valid argument :)

I think this merger is a good idea, but if we do so why at 7% AGS/PTS and 3% DNS?

DNS brings a lot to the table, which also BTSX benefits from.
BTSX+DNS would be great. But screwing the DNS investors that hard?
Please look at the markets and tell me what I am missing here.

tl;dr

Why was it announced (in the beginning) that this will be based on market cap (Dan)?
Why did toast tell everyone that invested funds will be preserved?
Why are the DACs (PTS/DNS) treated differently regarding their market cap/liquidity? 


Thanks again for everyone's time. Let's sort this and move on!

44
KeyID / Re: Toast - thank you in destroying my just bought DNS
« on: October 22, 2014, 12:24:37 pm »
The case BM made for that is that there was only $10k in liquidity. However, what I feel was heavily factored into the market price of DNS at the time was a faith in Toast as thought leader in the space, the bitshares_toolkit as a whole, and the discussed feature set to come.

Another problem I have with that argument is that with the proposal in the wild everyone was pulling their bids.
The liquidity established again at the new market price which was a result of the announcement.
So it is a slight stunt to first scare away the liquidity and than later start to argue there was none.

Look at the liquidity and volume at the new market price:
http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=dns
http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?mk_type=btc&btc38_trade_coin_name=dns
The volume on btc38 in the last 24h was about 600.000.000 DNS alone. Thats almost close to the volume of BTSX.


45
Deutsch (German) / Re: Bzgl. "Proposed Allocation for Merger"
« on: October 22, 2014, 11:51:24 am »
anyway:

- I3 ist genauso betroffen wie alle anderen auch .. die haben PTS, AGSpre28-2 und AGSpost28-2
- Stan meinte: Wenn alle gleich unzufrieden sind .. dann ist es fair :)

Wie gesagt, I3 ist am wenigsten in DNS investiert und das wird im Proposal deutlich.
Es kommt kein einziges valides Argument warum DNS benachteiligt wird.
Das Liquiditaetsargument ist schlicht falsch.

Ich lasse mich gerne vom Gegenteil ueberzeugen. Danke schon mal fuer eine Meinungen bisher!
 

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