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Messages - AdamBLevine

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1
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 13, 2015, 01:02:15 am »
It's a placeholder number, I'm attempting to define the real cost with Kuro which can then be used to create the proposal.

2
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 11, 2015, 10:49:58 pm »
this has freebie's full support, we love the concept and would love to work on this project with adam.

 +5%

The first thing we need to do is understand the scope of the project so we can figure out how much in funding we'll need to seek from the blockchain.  I've PM'd you contact information, let me know if you want to get on a call or collaborate on a google doc to start defining the scope.

3
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 11, 2015, 10:48:12 pm »
do you plan to make money via referral system?

I don't think we're going to turn down revenue streams where we find them but the referral system is not core to the model.

4
General Discussion / Bitshares would benefit from Tawk.to
« on: November 01, 2015, 09:21:07 pm »
Hey all,

I'm listening to an episode of the Beyond Bitcoin hangout from a few weeks ago and Daniel is being asked to provide tech support service, I wanted to suggest that you guys take a look at http://tawk.to which is a free chat-agent service that is totally free and can integrate very simply and quickly into any website or service including a wallet.

Community members could cover all timezones and really provide a source of answers or at least good links to new users, I think it would be valuable.

5
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 01, 2015, 09:09:43 pm »
I put together a basic budgeting spreadsheet for the part time developer, feel free to comment.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tCwRLdrQv2eVG0WVyPxPe1Zn-9oE5HcV4AeVECQchvE/edit?usp=sharing

Estimating we'll need the part time developer for three months to get everything in and robust as a first class token, my spreadsheet says we'll need 23657.44026 bitshares ($100) per day.   

6
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 01, 2015, 08:27:51 pm »
EDIT: But winning the vote will only give you the daily pay for the developer so you still need to arrange and manage the developer yourself.
And the worker pay requires vesting - this is to prevent having the salary paid without the job being actually delivered.

I have no problem managing developers, i'm very results oriented and like to put on my "chief user" hat instead of my CEO one.

7
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 01, 2015, 08:06:17 pm »
by the way, we could need a tokenly like chrome app too. I like it

The idea actually is to integrate Bitshares into Tokenly Pockets as well as Counterparty.  It's already API driven.

@Adam, just to give you an example, this is what a worker proposal looks like in the GUI.
Voters are supposed to read the details supplied by the attached URLs and then vote whether those proposals make sense for them or not.



Great!  let's find the developer who can take it on and do it.

8
Technical Support / Re: The way how gateways should work.
« on: November 01, 2015, 06:57:14 pm »
Right now we have:

BTC, bitBTC, TRADE.BTC, OPEN.BTC... and every new gateway will produce new SOMETHING.BTC. From perspective of new user this is far too complicated.

But in my opinion this is not the worst part. The main problem with this approach will always be low liquidity. And this is not only my concern.
https://twitter.com/genxnotes/status/660845841565941760



In my opinion gateways should work more like (or exactly like) https://metaexchange.info/ or http://shapeshift.io/. As far as I know, metaexchange provide liquidity with their own funds, having in mind that they will generate profit thanks to spread.

From my perspective all gateways should be "end-to-end" (BTC<->bitBTC) and "single transfer" gateways. I should send my real BTC to address generated in my wallet , and this should cause that bitBTC will appear in my bitshares wallet. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY to have simple gateways. Otherwise they are yet another exchanges. And we have to remember, that if any exchange is based on User Issued Assets, they are always counterparty risk. This risk will be bigger if users will be tempted to keep their positions on SOMETHING.BTC:BTC orderbooks.

It sounds like what you want is Bitshares integrated into our Swapbot Multi-Token Vending Machine system.  You'd send in BTC and after two confirmations it'd send you back your bitBTC, which is also held in the vending machine.  Here's a similar example, privately operated going between BTC and Storj's token https://swapbot.tokenly.com/bot/cryptonaut/storj-buy-sell-bot#choose

I have a thread going over here talking about integration, feel free to weigh in https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19647.0.html

9
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 01, 2015, 06:09:22 pm »
Are there any developers you can recommend, or who want to try for this job? 

One of the things we quickly discovered working with Counterparty based tokens was that having the token is trivial, creating it and managing it is fast because it's all handled by the protocol, but the platform level integrations are an impassable cliff until somebody actually builds systems or integrations that allow the tokens to be used in systems and for activities more complex than simple sends and games of chance.  Our services are designed to fill in the gaps and most importantly to act as a neutral platform based on whatever the merchant or user thinks is best.  Exchanges and mining pools and betting are great but the stuff we're building with Tokenly is an important missing part of the "why should we bother" - The answer is because it gives you new, empowering possibilities and it's simple to do.  The one without the other isn't very valuable at all.

You can take a look at our githubs here

Swapbot Multi-Token Vending
github.com/tokenly/swapbot/i

Tend Store System
https://github.com/tokenly/tokenslot-tend

Tokenly Pockets Wallet
https://github.com/loon3/Tokenly-Pockets

10
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 01, 2015, 05:44:51 pm »
@ Adam, is it correct that this would bring new users to Bitshares? Then you can make a pofit doing so (bringing new users onto the Bitshares blockchain) with the referral system, see https://bitshares.org/technology/referral-rewards-program/

The referral system has been created in order to make more intellegent marketing decisions. Entrepreneurs that are confident that their service is valuable to customers and brings new users to Bitshares profit big time. It's capitalism: The entrepreneur has to risk his/her own money (invest it).

Voting on worker proposals comes with the difficulty that BTS holders have to asses the profitability of the proposals for BTS so only things that can not be funded via the referral system should be funded with worker proposals. Worker proposal funding is like state or corporatism funding - people risk other people's money - this should be reserved for basic infrastructure that can not be funded via the referrral system.
This one, as I see it would be ideal to be funded via the referral system.

We're not interested in picking sides of what token will or will not be successful, the goal of this integration would be to add Bitshares derived tokens as a compatible option within our commerce systems that already include counterparty.  Our purpose is to pioneer new redeemable and access token based business models and opportunities, which does not require capabilities beyond what we already have.

I personally would like to be able to offer our users a choice of creating and using an expensive/fast token or a cheap/slow token within our wallet and ecosystem. That's what I see with bitshares and counterparty. Right now we just have the slow/cheap model which means we can't go after some use-cases but that's fine because we just picked ones that don't require less than 30 minutes between token ordering and delivery.

I understand what you're saying about that being the purpose of the referral system, but the reality is that if the bitshares blockchain can't provide for this through a worker or a volunteer doesn't decide to implement this themselves it's not going to happen in the near future.   If it's not a fit no worries.




11
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 01, 2015, 04:17:43 pm »
Really cool that you're interested in using Bitshares and I sure hope someone's interested in helping you do this. A worker proposal would get my vote at least.

I'd be happy to help with technical stuff.

 yep me either - and good to see you back Sir  :P
( happy to be of assistance  with graphic stuff )

What is the process for getting something like this started? I emailed Daniel to set up a call about this and a few other things but I'm not seeing an obvious 'this is how you should do this".

What are next steps?

the next step would IMO to calculate integration costs etc .. for this a call with dan (or maybe xeroc could help as well - @xeroc ) about possiblites and requirements etc. would be a good start...

At next step i would to create a worker proposal with cost/timeframe etc ..

Maybe this could be helping as well ..
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19559.msg250967.html#msg250967

For a part time developer with knowledge in this niche I would allocate 2-4k per month depending on where they live and thus what their cost of living is.  I will definitely need help doing the worker proposal or perhaps we can just have the developer do it themselves, my preference would be to have the bitshares blockchain hire the developer and then when the developer contributes work included in the open source project we'll award the blockchain decision making apparatus with a token useful for paying the Tokenly licensing fees for operating our software-as-a-service platforms.

I'm happy to get on a call with whomever can provide some expertise on the Bitshares integration side and discuss how this can be done.

12
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 01, 2015, 03:48:56 pm »
Really cool that you're interested in using Bitshares and I sure hope someone's interested in helping you do this. A worker proposal would get my vote at least.

I'd be happy to help with technical stuff.

 yep me either - and good to see you back Sir  :P
( happy to be of assistance  with graphic stuff )

What is the process for getting something like this started? I emailed Daniel to set up a call about this and a few other things but I'm not seeing an obvious 'this is how you should do this".

What are next steps?

13
General Discussion / Re: [API] questions / suggestions for improvement
« on: November 01, 2015, 03:21:02 pm »
Graphene API is just different, it's a paradigm shift - rather than "pulling" data from blockchain it exploits "push" concept allowing creation of close to real time clients.
It's pretty early in it's development, I expect it would be more user friendly as it mature and we implement more features and bindings. I predict the ideas we up to would have a big affect on all crypto APIs in the mid-term future.

Hey man :) Been a long time.

So instead of reading the entire blockchain as an observer and picking our trigger events, the blockchain is alerting you pro-actively and you get to passively receive?  That is very interesting, we had to build XChain to do that for us reliably with Counterparty and Bitcoin.  If I understand what you're saying, we would not need to build that with Bitshares, it would talk directly to our vending machines or ecommerce system?


14
Stakeholder Proposals / Tokenly Merchant Ecosystem Worker Proposal
« on: November 01, 2015, 03:01:53 pm »
I'm interested in having the blockchain fund a community member to implement Bitshares into our open source merchant ecosystem project.  I think it would be a win win because we'd bring a lot of web based accessibility and showcase Bitshares alongside Counterparty tokens for use as redeemables and as access tokens.

I think it would be a win-win if we could get Bitshares integrated into our product offerings, but I'll need a developer who already knows what they're doing which I hope you can recommend and I'd like to fund it via a worker proposal in whatever amount the developer requires, I figure we'll only need them part time.

I have no idea how to do this in the worker system, and even if I do manage to get it done I'll need the support of the community to both find the right developer and to have the blockchain hire them.  I'd appreciate any help or feedback.

About Tokenly

You can visit our "startupey" page at www.tokenly.com - We're building tools for a future where individual companies create and use personalized tokens to represent pre-paid units of their goods and services.  Tokenly makes it very easy to automate the things that you need as a merchant or individual in order to have a functioning, automated commercial ecosystem.  Swapbot vending machines (selling tokens), Tend stores (selling items, accepting tokens and other forms of money) and the Tokenly Pockets (holding and using tokens) wallet.  We also have the LTB Auctioneer, mass distributor and a handful of other prototype tools and protocols.

We've been in a quiet alpha since July and are getting ready to launch our first open alpha, I'd like to look at the feasibility of integrating Bitshares into our vending machine system, browser extension wallet and store system.  I suspect the store will be easiest, wallet next and the vending machine will require some creative thinking since we try to do everything on the blockchain and obviously this will involve bots that bridge at least two blockchains.

I think the tools we've built at Tokenly would add a lot of valuable use-cases to the Bitshares ecosystem by a community funded developer. The question is, is the community interested?  I look forward to your thoughts.

Links and Products
tokenrank.tokenly.com
pockets.tokenly.com
Swapbot.tokenly.com
swapbotstats.tokenly.com
slots.tokenly.com
redeem.tokenly.com
auction.letstalkbitcoin.com

You can find our whole project at https://github.com/tokenly

15
With all due respect, Adam (big fan of your work here), if the user hasn't backed up within a certain period of time, there's a link right at the bottom that says "BACKUP REQUIRED".  If you click on that, it takes you to a screen to perform a backup.  What's the problem with that?  And beyond that, what about the interface reminds you of a very early Mastercoin wallet? 

My point was it startled me, made me more wary and set the tone for the rest of my experience using the service that first time which should have been one of exploring something cool and instead was trying not to step on a landmine because somebody just gave me a vague warning that when I blow up they warned me.   The only other wallet i've ever experienced that with is the early mastercoin ones.     

And your note about the BACKUP REQUIRED link is another illustration of my point, it would have been trivial to give people the option to "BACKUP NOW" by link in the aforementioned warning but instead you could only agree and close the warning.  I think the BACKUP button popped up after i'd been dicking around with import wallet function for ten minutes, if they're really concerned they should have forced me through the process right then.   I also found myself scared away from brainwallet when I thought the capture and verification process worked really well once I got up the courage to ignore the warnings and try.   The wallet makes strange judgements.


By the way, perhaps you're not aware that this is a reference design.  Many of us understand the point of it to be a usable wallet for the community to jump start the new governance model, for early adopters and investors to use more generally, and at the same time a working demonstration of the features business builders can design into their own product/service offerings built atop the Bitshares 2.0 platform and aimed at the end-user masses.  Obviously it's not perfect, but I think it's delivering on that promise.

The wallet is a bare implementation of a crazy featureset.  It took almost a year after counterwallet was released as a bare implementation of a less crazy featureset with more time spent on UI no question, before  they even had other people running copies of the servers and it was about that same time (a year after release) that my project developed http://pockets.tokenly.com  largely to be able to use the counterparty system without having the problems that had become apparent in the Counterwallet approach.   

What i'd like to do is put a simplified, normal user friendly (no crazy exchange features or much of the other high level stuff) version of bitshares into our Tokenly Pockets application and let people carry and use Bitshares based tokens alongside and interchangably with bitcoin based ones.  Will Bitshares be easy to work with by looking at the reference implementation for our needs?  From what I can tell, no it won't.


As for the API, like anything else clearly there were/are some kinks to be worked out.  But I really doubt it will be overly difficult for you to integrate Bitshares 2.0 into your platform.

Theres another thread on the forum talking about how many of the structural inconsistencies that were present in the 1.0 implementation were replicated or carried over into the 2.0 implementation.   I'm thinking about trying to fund a 'worker' who could come from the community and be paid by the blockchain to do and maintain the integration work, then I don't have to care as much about how difficult the protocol is or isn't to work with because the protocol will be providing the labor and expertise to make it not my problem and get it done.   I'm hoping Daniel will be able to point me in the right direction on that, i'm not really "getting" the process for doing this very intuitively

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