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Messages - FreeTrade

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31
We've already discussed that idea.
Our goal is to position PTS as a no-dilution, no-inflation investment vehicle, so we have decided against it.

Tony had an interesting idea here -
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11576.0

I think we've got about 1,760,000 PTS minted now.

If we were to have 20,000 transaction processing subsidy (1%) in the first year, reducing by 50% each year . . . we'd have a maximum possible cap of 1,800,000 mil - you could still market it as no-dilution, no-inflation, on the basis that there is a total supply of 1.8 mil.

Really looking for a compromise with you guys on transaction processing subsidy - a lot of smart people have said it's not a good idea to get rid of it with no replacement. You'd also start to gain a reputation for pragmatic compromise, rather than ideological dogmatism.

32
The billion units was primarily to help in marketing. It gives us a nice round number to start with for supply (vs. 1,783,034) and it creates the perception of value (eg, feels better to tip 100PTS than 0.1PTS). Perception drives reality.

I agree this is an unnecessary and distracting change. Changing the number of units again feels like a new project, rather than an upgrade. Maybe a 1.8 mil hardcap, with the the last 40,000 set aside for transaction subsidies.

33
we will need to select transaction and user registration fees carefully in order to help offset, however slightly, the cost of running delegates.

High transaction and registration fees are definitely one sustainable model - however they might inhibit adoption and transaction volume.

I wonder if there isn't a way to have both a hardcap and a transaction processing subsidy?

34
One question - ProtoShares allows for a 1% inflation over time as a transaction processing subsidy -

1081: // Subsidy may be a minimum of 0.19012850*COIN
1082: // Expected 365.25 * 24 * 12 * 0.19012850 = approx 20,000 coins per year, 1% annual inflation
1083: if(nSubsidy<0.19012850*COIN){nSubsidy=0.19012850*COIN;}

If you're removing this inflation, how will PTS DPOS incentivize delegates sufficiently? What will happen if there is a lack of competition for delegate spots?

35
I've updated the original BitcoinTalk thread with the news -

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325261.0


36
@all: let me know if sparkle should get it's own subboard section on third party DACs…

Maybe you could split this topic into 2 - posts about the original topic, and posts about the community members. Feel free to delete this post as it doesn't fit in either.

37
Sparkle is the first next-generation block chain built around proof-of-work but with all of the latest innovations provided by BitShares, including BitAssets and paid workers.

Sparkle uses the SHA512 hashing algorithm for proof of work and expects to change the proof of work algorithm based upon delegate consensus.     


Interesting - I'm more leaning toward DPOS now, but this could be a useful backup in case DPOS fails in some catastrophic way.

2 things -

1. I wonder if you'd consider a more CPU friendly initial proof-of-waste
2. I wonder if you'd consider a wider sharedrop - across BTC, LTC, DOGE, PPC addresses maybe

38
I'm not criticising you cass, your work has always been fantastic. I was just ranting on about the general marketing direction and I know that's not your responsibility. 8)

+1

Yes, was assuming the OP, Brian Page, marketing director is choosing the marketing target and is in control of the message/content. Waiting to hear from him.

39
I think targeting mainstream users in the broadest sense is too premature, especially for downloading the full node, so I guess that's a point where we disagree on the general marketing direction, and thus my opinion may be of limited use. But especially if mainstream is the target, I think it would be so much better if there were just two simple sentences explaining 1) what the product is 2) how the reader can use the product. Right now the website expects readers to scroll down through a lot of large pictures, then asks people to get started by downloading a program, but it doesn't seem like it properly explains what downloading that program accomplishes. We should at least also explain that they need to go to an exchange and buy BTS or bitUSD to begin earning interest.

However, if I had to design the marketing strategy I think I would use bitshares.org as the place for technical users and bitcoin veterans to get a quick rundown of the specs and as a place to download the client and find exchanges in their country.

Mainstream targeting could be done directly by a bitAsset on-ramp such as getbitusd.com that focused on selling bitassets and letting users download a lightweight client or sign up for a hosted wallet, all in one simple funnel done on a single website.

+1

Yes, yes, yes to everything here.

The design is very nice, but I don't know who it is for.

40
for this you have to ask which target groups we're trying to reach ... as said before … when we want to hit mainstream… the average user doens't want to know how it works ..
he want's to know that it works ... Guess most of paypal users don't know whats go behind the scenes ...

Is the average paypal user the target group?

I'm still trying to understand what we're trying to achieve with the website so that I can feedback if I think the website is effective.

41
Who is the website targeted at?

What are we hoping the target market is going to do after visiting the website?

42
Yes, but this is an issue that we can see coming from a mile away. And I'm not convinced that people will magically become more interested in voting when there's more money at stake; they may still assume the delegates are doing a good job and let someone else focus on that junk while they spend their time trading and transacting.

+1

You're right - they won't become more interested in voting.

There are only two ways we're going to see quality voting -

1. Large shareholders
2. Trusted members with a lot of proxies (slates)

Some people have suggested incentivizing voting with rewards - but once you start getting people to view their votes in monetary terms, it is a small step away from trading votes for kickbacks.
 

43
General Discussion / Re: Delegate Sponsorships
« on: November 17, 2014, 09:30:37 am »
ok  , dig dirt is a strong word ....It'ts better called "tough audit".

Tough audits are fine. What I'm worried about is seeing a lot of baseless or irrelevant accusations made that waste a lot of time for people. aka politics.

44
General Discussion / Re: Delegate Sponsorships
« on: November 17, 2014, 09:15:51 am »
hmm.... I was planing running a media empire in the BTS world .....
I can accept donations to dig dirt on any delegates to offset those who promote them    :P

This is likely to become a thing. It'll be very distracting for devs and other people creating value.

To minimize this, I'm recommending we keep the politics at the slate publisher (director) level. That way we'll have directors to keep each other accountable, but we won't have the unedifying spectacle of devs sniping at each other.
 
Proposed model is - Devs to convince directors and directors to convince shareholders. Doesn't require any code/protocol changes, but default GUI should be changed to reflect it.

45
General Discussion / Re: Delegate Sponsorships
« on: November 17, 2014, 06:44:45 am »
Quote
I have also kicked around the idea of offering a limited number of sponsored slots in this slate.

This is completely contrary to the idea that slate recommendations should comprise an unbiased assessment and set of recommendations by the reviewer. Open to all kinds of abuse in my opinion.


+1

Provide a slate by all means, and vote for your own paid delegate on that slate as compensation for the effort of maintaining a slate.

Run another paid delegate to compensate you for dev hangouts, and the community can decide to finance/reward that effort too. Add that delegate to your slate too - no problem as long as it is transparent.

But don't ask for a portion of someone else's delegate pay when you're voting for them on a slate. That looks too much like a kickback, and even if it doesn't start out that way, that's what it'll turn into. I won't vote for any whose behaviour could be confused with taking or encouraging kickbacks, and I won't add them to my slate.
 

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